Frustrated with finding other couples

[Menage_a_Trois]

The Other Mrs. Menage here……….. (sorry for the long post)

Originally Posted by Allways

You state that each person must approach and pursue at their own pace and at that which feels comfortable, regardless of what anyone else thinks, yet you make judgments about those who "are just there to watch".

As for making a judgment, we didn’t, we made a conclusion based on fact not assumptions. This conclusion could have only be derived by asking the necessary questions and getting the responses that we have to have been able to make those statements.

Originally Posted by Allways

How do you know these people are not just moving in their own, comfortable baby steps?

So to simply answer your question, we asked them what they were looking for, interested in, how long they had been doing the lifestyle, etc……………

Originally Posted by Allways

You say there is a growing trend of people at clubs and parties who do not intend to be swingers, but how do you make a determination about their intent? Unless they specifically tell you that, I don't think it's anyone's place to judge.

Again, we make this determination based on the conclusion after we have talked to them and ASKED them what they are interested in………….and you are right not’s not for anyone else to judge.

Originally Posted by Allways

If they do tell you they have no intention of ever doing anything but watching you, and you are not comfortable with that, then don't invite them back to the party, and don't communicate with them in the clubs. What is wrong with live and let live?

As for what is wrong with live and let live………absolutely nothing. But like Mr. Menage stated:

Originally Posted by Menage_a_Trois

My original post was intended to address the title of this thread and the OP's post about what was going on and how to get back into the "game". I was merely pointing why they maybe experiencing a "drought" and why many couples shy away from the "friends first" crowd.

We understand they are going to be there. Nothing anyone can do about that, just something that is frustrating to those of us who are serious about trying to hook up and play. I would like to add that it is very frustrating when you have been at a club and had a couple flirting around with you and leading you on and you spend time with them and then get down to feeling like things might progress to play and start asking those questions to find out they are only there for the “thrill and energy” of being around swingers.

We too are about sexual growth. We don’t want to stymie or hinder anyone’s personal growth especially in the area of sexual growth. Nor are we attacking anyone for their choice in regards to their sexuality, etc. We are merely stating what some of the frustrations are for those of us who are actively involved in the lifestyle and looking for play partners.

So in my opinion it’s like going to a lifestyle event at a gay bar with cross dressers and transvestites’, it all of a sudden becomes the lifestyle with land mines……..so you tread lightly in hopes of not stepping on a land mine.

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

i do sense a certain prejudice against newbies or people that want to take things a little slower and part of me can see why. nobody wants to be jerked around and have their time wasted. some newbies do drag their feet or bring in a lot of drama. i get that. but some of the more experienced swingers need to realize how intimidating it can all be. i mean, we've ALL been there on some level.

Believe it or not we have mentored several newbie couples and will continue to do so and we DO realize how intimidating it can be. I’ve only been at the 3 ½ years now – not that long ago since my first introduction into the lifestyle. I am a preacher’s daughter and a former church board member for years!!!!!!! Trust me I get the intimidating, scary, nerve-racking, jest of every aspect of the lifestyle. But I also get the frustrations felt by the “VETERANS”. And believe it or not those who started out moving at a turtles pace complaining about the veterans and pushy couples moving at warp speed and are now the ones complaining about the newbie’s and looky-lou’s as I call them. Like everything in life it has a cycle, a beginning and middle and an end.

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

For better or worse, "the lifestyle" is changing and I think that's hard for a lot of "veterans" to come to terms with.

Perhaps it is and perhaps it’s all a matter of prespective on the lifestyle…………………..

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

So, forget what all the self proclaimed swinging gurus have to say about "swinging" just being all about sex. Swinging may be all about sex for them, but it may also be about stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others. Relax and take your time. Enjoy your "drought" by focusing your energies elsewhere. It's been my experience that the best things tend to happen when you're not actively looking for them.

As for “having” to say it’s just about sex……..well your right because whether or not you want to admit it to yourselves it is. You can dress it up any way you want, call whatever you want, justify it away but the brass tacks of it all when everything is stripped away is it’s just about sex. To what degree or form that takes well that is up to you. And as for the stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others, much to your surprise that too is about sex and something us “VETERANS” enjoy and seek out as well.

In the two (2) years that we have been a triad we have had many experiences in the lifestyle. None of which started out looking for friends first (AND I"M NOT SAYING THAT IS WRONG.......) but we have been blessed more than I can count with some of the most incredible friendship along the way. Because yourbitterpill is 100% right on this, the best things do happen when you're not actively looking for them but just allow yourselves to being open to them. Sometimes putting an emphasis on anything other than having fun and enjoying yourself in the lifestyle just leads to more frustrations. So just sit back, buckle up and enjoy the lifestyle ride, whatever path it leads you on.

P - The Other Mrs. Menage

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

my wife and i have been swinging off and on now for about 2.5 or 3 years. In that time, we've only managed to find three couples that we actually got to play with (all of them through Swing Lifestyle).
...
we're now "single" and wanting to get back into the game but are a little reluctant about how to go about it. from our experience we've learned that we only feel comfortable taking on one or two couples at a given time and that we prefer for our relationships with potential partners to extend beyond the bedroom. we're not looking to become best friends with anyone but we do want to LIKE them.

Hi Lovemonkey,

Many people share your feeling on this. Mr. Tybee and I have to like people and be attracted to their personalities, as well as physically attracted. Do we have fewer encounters because of this? Sure! But, we don't even want the encounters with people we are less attracted to or interested in. We are not missing anything. It's quality, not quantity.

I highly agree with Drew & Pepper's advice for you. You can get to know many personalities and see who you would click with if you get out to the socials, meet and greets, etc. Try the off-premise clubs or events. These are specifically for mingling and getting to know others. You meet a variety of people in a fun setting, talk, dance, flirt, exchange email addresses or phone numbers if you're interested. Meet them again later, if you like. It's kind of like "speed dating". One night at a meet-and-greet is worth more than two or three months poking around through profiles on Swing Lifestyle.

Looking at your signature, you live in or near a big city. There are all sorts of options for you. Get out and mingle.

[lovemonkey#1]

As for “having” to say it’s just about sex……..well your right because whether or not you want to admit it to yourselves it is. You can dress it up any way you want, call whatever you want, justify it away but the brass tacks of it all when everything is stripped away is it’s just about sex. To what degree or form that takes well that is up to you. And as for the stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others, much to your surprise that too is about sex and something us “VETERANS” enjoy and seek out as well.

i both agree and disagree with this statement. i don't think that anyone on this board has illusions about swinging not being primarily about sex. to me, the debate centers more on how different people are defining it and how they want to apply that towards their experience. by using the term "sex" are we talking about just the physical, biological act of intercourse itself or are we talking about the whole sphere of human sexuality? to some, swinging may be a very impersonal and functional affair while others want something more intimate and "meaningful". either way is fine but for those of us who want something more intimate you have to admit that there is a sort of gray area where boundaries can get blurred (sex/friendship, sex/love, etc.). so to say swinging is JUST about sex (whatever your definition) seems to not do some people's experiences or expectations justice. friendship, as i've discovered, is also a very complex issue and whether or not it is a requirement for sex in the swinging world also seems to be in debate.

let's face it, sex is a very complicated subject no matter how you approach it. like politics and religion, it's one of those things that has the power to divide or to bring people together. it's usually an emotionally charged topic and we all respond to that in different ways. i certainly don't think it's something than can just be stripped down to it's basic components.

I highly agree with Drew & Pepper's advice for you. You can get to know many personalities and see who you would click with if you get out to the socials, meet and greets, etc. Try the off-premise clubs or events. These are specifically for mingling and getting to know others. You meet a variety of people in a fun setting, talk, dance, flirt, exchange email addresses or phone numbers if you're interested. Meet them again later, if you like. It's kind of like "speed dating". One night at a meet-and-greet is worth more than two or three months poking around through profiles on Swing Lifestyle.

we may end up doing this eventually but for now i think we're going to stick to the internet. we both find that we do better in smaller gatherings and have a hard time feeling comfortable in larger, more impersonal settings where we don't know many people (large parties, clubs, etc). maybe we're just freaks

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

we may end up doing this eventually but for now i think we're going to stick to the internet. we both find that we do better in smaller gatherings and have a hard time feeling comfortable in larger, more impersonal settings where we don't know many people (large parties, clubs, etc). maybe we're just freaks

No, I think there are lots of couples out there like you, and I don't think you're freaks. Not everyone likes the social scene.

My husband and I started a meet-and-greet that met monthly in our town, held at a fairly small club. (We did this via a Yahoo Group.) Most of the first year we did this, there were only about 3-6 couples in attendance on average. (It gradually grew to a point that there were sometimes 12-15 couples.) We'd start early in the evening before the crowd got there and before the music got loud, so we could all talk for a couple of hours before the dancing got started. We were in a regular club and they didn't know we were swingers, so of course we were all discreet. Even though this was a mellow situation and there were NO expectations at all, much to our surprise there would be couples most every month who would sit somewhere in the club, watching us from afar for hours, and never approach to introduce themselves. Even introducing themselves to this little group of a few couples in a normal club seemed like too much for them. How we knew: Later, they'd email us to say they were there, and how afraid they felt to take that step to mingle with a group of swingers, even though they were interested in swinging and had profiles.

How would you two feel about a gathering of a few couples in a "normal" club, just hanging out, talking, and maybe dancing later? I'm just asking out of curiosity.

Whatever your style, I hope you find what you're looking for. You sound like nice people.

[good times]

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

by using the term "sex" are we talking about just the physical, biological act of intercourse itself or are we talking about the whole sphere of human sexuality? to some, swinging may be a very impersonal and functional affair while others want something more intimate and "meaningful". either way is fine but for those of us who want something more intimate you have to admit that there is a sort of gray area where boundaries can get blurred (sex/friendship, sex/love, etc.). so to say swinging is JUST about sex (whatever your definition) seems to not do some people's experiences or expectations justice. friendship, as i've discovered, is also a very complex issue and whether or not it is a requirement for sex in the swinging world also seems to be in debate.

This is very interesting, and right up front I have to say that I don't really know the answer of where the average swinger falls in the sphere of human sexuality.

I have made some interesting (to me) observations regarding this swinger friends/sex question though. When ever someone tells me that, "it isn't just about sex" I can't help relating that in five years of actively swinging (we usually attend a club or party 2-4 times a month, and get together with other swingers almost every week) we have made less true friends than you can count on one hand. Almost all of those friendships came quite some time after we had had sex with them.

Additionally, we have observed another interesting phenomena, that is that we have had a lot of play partners tell us that they enjoyed our company so much they considered us friends for life, yet as soon as we tell them we don't want to have sex with them any more, they disappear or tell us to get lost. We just recently had a couple that we had played with, went to swinging and non-swinging social functions with, barbecued at each others house etc., that we thought of as pretty good friends. Over time though, the sexual attraction just wasn't there any more, even though, as friends, we still really enjoyed their company. At some point they asked us pointedly if "we were ever going to play again". When they were told, "probably not" they immediately told us to remove their numbers from our cell phones and blocked us on Swing Lifestyle. Great friends, huh?

So, for the most part, in our experience, swinging really is "just about sex". Once the sex or possibility of sex disappears, any supposed friendship usually goes out the door with it. Which leads me to believe, these so called, "swinger friends" were never very good friends to start with. At first, when we were newbies, this really bothered us. Truth be told, it still kind of sucks when it happens, but we have come to the point were we have accepted it as, "the way it is". We have also come to the conclusion that, for us, actually trying to becomes friends with people we want to have sex with, usually results in more drama than it is worth in the end.

That being said, even as experienced swingers, our emotional involvement with our play partners varies. Sometimes we hardly even know their names. Other times, a deep friendship develops. On very rare occasions, the emotional friendship part even survives after the desire for them as sexual partners passes.

[lovemonkey#1]

hmmmmm..........

maybe swinger couples relate to other swinger couples much like men relate to other men. in other words, they tend to bond over an activity (i.e., bowling, karaoke, swinging). as long as they have that to share, there will always be a common thread between them. once the activity is taken away, they don't know how to relate to each other anymore and they chose to let the relationship dissolve.

just a thought

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by good times

We just recently had a couple that we had played with, went to swinging and non-swinging social functions with, barbecued at each others house etc., that we thought of as pretty good friends. Over time though, the sexual attraction just wasn't there any more, even though, as friends, we still really enjoyed their company. At some point they asked us pointedly if "we were ever going to play again". When they were told, "probably not" they immediately told us to remove their numbers from our cell phones and blocked us on Swing Lifestyle. Great friends, huh?

Good times, this is very interesting, and I'm curious. What changed, that caused the loss of attraction? Did they change somehow? Or do you think it was the familiarity?

[good times]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Good times, this is very interesting, and I'm curious. What changed, that caused the loss of attraction? Did they change somehow? Or do you think it was the familiarity?

Their are actually a lot of reasons, but I think it is mostly what I am in the lifestyle for that causes the loss of attraction. I like the variety of new sex partners, trying new things and experiencing new techniques. Most of the time, after playing with someone multiple times, the newness eventually wears off and I lose interest. The fact is, regular sex is best with Mrs. GT, so I am not looking for someone regular on the side, so to speak. I think a lot of it has to do with the fantasy aspect of someone new too. What I mean by that is that at first, when the other person is fairly unknown to me, the exploration is exciting and stimulating. After you get to know the person better and they become more of a buddy they lose their appeal as a sex partner, for me at least. Then also, as one becomes better friends with someone, and gets to know their personality better, their are always areas where you don't see eye to eye, or don't mesh well, that too makes them less appealing to me sexually. At the same time, those differences of opinion or philosophy makes them valuable as a friend, when you are looking for an alternative viewpoint or an intelligent conversation.

That is why I have often said, the more we become friends with someone, the less we have sex, and we rarely have sex with the long term friends we have made in the lifestyle.

So no, I don't think anyone changed, I think it was more the familiarity, we just got to know each other better, and in doing so their appeal to us sexually waned.

It is actually funny when we look back to when we started swinging. We thought we would find a few couples, and then play with them occasionally over a period of years. What actually seems to happen, is that we either meet someone and play with them once and never again, or we meet someone and have so much fun that it is like getting a new toy. So we play like crazy for a few months until, slowly, we get burned out with them. Then one day, we just realize that while we still like them as friends, we just aren't interested in them sexually any more.

I don't know if other experienced swingers lose interest for the same reasons we do, but when we have talked to others about their experiences, we have noticed that in most cases their experience is similar to ours, the sex usually disappears from the relationship as they become better friends with someone.

Another interesting thing we noticed when it happened to us, is that the few people that this has happened with that are still good friends were experienced swingers when we met. On the other hand, on a couple of other occasions when it has happened, it was with people fairly new to the lifestyle, who seemed to take it very personally when we decided we didn't want to play any more, and usually never talked to us again. The only conclusion I can draw form our limited experiences with it, is that once one becomes experienced in the lifestyle, our expectations seem to change, and we realize we aren't going to be hot for that new person we meet forever.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

hmmmmm..........

maybe swinger couples relate to other swinger couples much like men relate to other men. in other words, they tend to bond over an activity (i.e., bowling, karaoke, swinging). as long as they have that to share, there will always be a common thread between them. once the activity is taken away, they don't know how to relate to each other anymore and they chose to let the relationship dissolve.

just a thought

This is pretty much our experience but in a lot of ways I don't think swinging ALONE is enough to even call them 'friends'. We have only made one long term friendship in swinging, despite really desiring more, and that was because the husband and myself shared a hobby that we did together for quite a long time, and still do (though less).

They became, family BBQ and babysit your kids type of friends, but every other couple which seemed very compatible on paper were only 'friends' for a short period of time.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by good times

Their are actually a lot of reasons, but I think it is mostly what I am in the lifestyle for that causes the loss of attraction. I like the variety of new sex partners, trying new things and experiencing new techniques. Most of the time, after playing with someone multiple times, the newness eventually wears off and I lose interest. The fact is, regular sex is best with Mrs. GT, so I am not looking for someone regular on the side, so to speak. I think a lot of it has to do with the fantasy aspect of someone new too. What I mean by that is that at first, when the other person is fairly unknown to me, the exploration is exciting and stimulating. After you get to know the person better and they become more of a buddy they lose their appeal as a sex partner, for me at least. Then also, as one becomes better friends with someone, and gets to know their personality better, their are always areas where you don't see eye to eye, or don't mesh well, that too makes them less appealing to me sexually.

This is very interesting to me. I sense that it works this way for me, too. It's interesting that the very things that connect us even more to our spouses (becoming best friends, confidants, becoming very familiar), are the same things that eventually turn us off to the playmates. With a spouse, even the areas we don't see eye-to-eye aren't negatives (for me, at least). If we were too much alike as spouses, it would be boring. With a spouse, the sex gets better and better with time, and nobody knows how to turn us on the way our spouse does. It's as if the swinging friend dynamic works in an opposite way from the spouse dynamic.

I think that for me, it's because there's only room in my heart for one partner who is that close, that permanent. I think it's because I'm a monogamist with my heart and mind. I'm only a non-monogamist with my body.

Originally Posted by good times

It is actually funny when we look back to when we started swinging. We thought we would find a few couples, and then play with them occasionally over a period of years.

We thought the same thing. In fact, we're still kind of hoping for that to happen eventually.