Frustrated with finding other couples

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

first of all, it seems that the subject of "friends" in the "lifestyle" is a hot button issue that i wasn't aware of.

Now you know. It is a hot-button issue around here.

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

i simply stated that we were looking for people that we could have a deeper connection than "just sex" because we tried the just sex route and DID NOT LIKE IT. we found a couple that we hung out with off and on for a few months before we actually got to the sex and we enjoyed it immensely... for over a year.

It seems to me that you answered your own question: you are not "setting your sights too high", because you proved that you can find what you are looking for. You had the situation you wanted for over a year. That's pretty damn good! But I'm sure it's perfectly obvious that your frustration is caused by your preferences being a tall order, one only filled by a select few people, like the couple you found.

Yes, you've been judged and lumped into other peoples' bad experiences. Sorry about that. You're frustrated about your experiences, and others are frustrated about theirs. I believe that you can avoid being someone else's bad experience by being up-front with anyone you talk to or meet, either online or in person. You are probably already doing that, so bravo.

You're definitely looking for something unusual... a couple that you are both attracted to, who are attracted to you, and who are willing to spend some longer-than-average amount of time getting to know you before swapping. How long is long enough? The answer varies. You two are at one end of the continuum and you don't have a lot of company, but it's who you are.

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

not everyone is wired to just jump into bed with other people without at least getting to know them a little bit first.

Fair enough. There are plenty of swingers who at least want one non-play date before exchanging partners. Mr. Fuse and I are definitely in that category; although we have played on first dates, we normally wait until the second date.

However, there are not a lot who want to spend literally months getting to know each other first, as you wrote you did with the couple you had a good relationship with for a year. Most people are not willing to do that. There are good reasons for that... you don't know whether the sexual relationship is going to work until you go for it, maybe several times. If you've sunk lots of your free time into a relationship before finding out that the sex is not good, it is a lot of effort to expend before discovering a deal-breaker.

You're entitled to feel the way you do, but you also have to be ready to be frustrated a lot in order to get what you want eventually.

We have developed very close relationships with two couples. But in both cases, we started having sex after meeting twice or so, and knowing that we all liked each other as people as well as having an attraction.

Here's the thing: You never can tell right away who you're going to stick with over the long term. There were a few other couples who we really liked and were hoping for longer-term relationships, but one kind of drifted away and the other stopped swinging. We have been very lucky, but even with odds like that, we wouldn't want to wait very long before having sex with people we liked. It only makes it easier to be together and get to know each other better, in my opinion.

Not only that, but to state the obvious: we're horny, and we're after sexual variety.

[ShellyM]

lovemonkey,
it sounds like y'all are looking at more of an exclusive or poly relationship. And this is COOL if thats what y'all are into. We recently had a couple tell us that they wanted us to be exclusive because they wanted to have a very intimate experience. We politely declined. Not because we are just against the idea, because we aren't. However, we do enjoy meeting different people. And if we meet a couple and decide to play with them we do not want to feel like we have to explain to our relationship couple who or why or what. So we do our own thing. Don't become angry because people render their opinions. Trust me, alot of these people are a wealth of information. Menage has been invaluable to me in my growth in the lifestyle, mwah to all 3 of them!!
Do things at your own comfort levels...but do not get mad because people give you an opinion you do not agree with.
Shelly

[good times]

The Fuse makes some good points, and I have to admit, we do get frustrated when interacting with folks that seem to take forever to decide whether they want to play or not.

I was not trying to make you angry lovemonkey#1, nor was I trying to say that what your doing is wrong, I was simply giving my opinion, albeit in very general terms.

Does it surprise you that others would not be interested in spending months getting to know you before getting to the sex? The reason I ask, is that outside of the clubs where you might happen to see other regulars for months before hooking up, I have never met anyone in the lifestyle willing to do that. Frankly, most of us just haven't got that kind of time to spend finding play partners.

Obviously their are at least a few others that are interested in what you are as you indicated finding couples in the past this way. All I am saying is that most aren't interested in a long "get to know you" period, so it is no surprise, to me at least, that you might have a harder time finding someone than some of us do.

As far as people just disappearing at some point goes, I hate to say it, but that is usually how it goes. And it might surprise you to hear it, but that is usually for the best. Almost every time we have tried to explain to people that we weren't interested in playing with them any more it has just led to hurt feelings. What then happens is the people you tried to explain to take it personally, get pissed off, and never talk to you again. So generally, we actually prefer it if we have no expectations of multiple play sessions with a given couple. If we someday play again, great, but it isn't required or expected. We find that we can then still be sociable and friendly with each other without the expectations or pressure of being their steady play partner. Is our way for everybody, probably not, but it is the way that has proven to work for most.

Originally Posted by lovemonkey#1

personally, i'm not attracted to just looks. i find that 70% of my attraction to a woman is her personality. i find it hard to believe that i'd be in the minority on that one. perhaps we all just have different definitions of "friends?"

I think that most swingers would agree with you on this, I don't think it is a matter of different definitions of friends, but more a difference in degree of how good friends we need to be to get to the sex. The only difference that I can see between you and I is that I can talk to someone for an hour or so and decide whether I am sexually attracted to the person or not, physically, mentally, and personality wise. In fact, it has been my experience that the more I get to know someone, and the more I become involved in their personal life, the less interested I am in having sex with them. Just going by all the swingers that I know personally, I would say that like most swingers I am about average, a few are as you describe yourself who require a longer "get to know you" period, others will jump into bed with someone with no more than a "howdy, wanna fuck". I am not trying to say that any of these is right or wrong, it is whatever works for you, but if you are in the minority it shouldn't be any surprise that it is a bit harder to find compatible partners.

[lovemonkey#1]

hi all,

thanks for the responses. just to clear up a few things:

1. we are not interested in a poly or even an exclusive relationship. we just want to find a couple or two that we like and can have semi-regular sessions with. true, it may take us a little time to get to know people but to us it's worth it. if they don't work out, then ok. we can take it. we're not broken hearted or anything, just somewhat frustrated with the process and were wondering how other people dealt with it.

2. the reason we've chosen to only take on two couples at a time is because we have extremely hectic schedules and we simply don't have the time and energy to constantly look for new couples, get to know them, etc. we aren't into the club scene on a vanilla level, much less on a swinger one, so that's not really an option for us. it's just been tiring because we were sitting around waiting for these couples to get back in touch with us instead of prowling the swinger sites all the time looking for new partners.

3. we live in dc where everyone is a work-a-holic and it's a huge pain in the ass organizing everyone's schedules and finding a time where we can all get together. i know everyone knows what i'm talking about here. the months long "getting to know you" period is for us usually a "hey, we can't get together with you now but we're still interested" email correspondence type of thing. when we finally do get a chance to meet, we typically get together once or twice, talk about our expectations, etc and then work from there. considering that most of the couples we've talked to are newbies and want to take things slow, i don't think this is too much of a problem. so, our lack of speedy forward movement isn't because we're scared or we're being wishy-washy. it's because we're all trying to find the time to do it and take into account everyone's comfort level. again, i know everyone can relate to that. i just wish i didn't have to justify myself in this.

4. i'm not getting mad that people have different opinions than me on how things should function for them in the "lifestyle". to each his own and all that. what i'm frustrated about is this prevailing attitude that some people have regarding what constitutes a "true" swinger. frankly, my wife and i are both horny and are interested in experimenting with other couples just like many others on this board. i just don't like that some are acting as if they have all this privileged information and that only their sexual experimentation is valid because they've fulfilled certain requirements. just because someone may have been with more people or had different types of experiences doesn't make them somehow superior to others.

5. we know that it's supposed to be fun and we, for the most part, have a good attitude about it all. we're just trying to get back into the game and were looking for advice but i felt that instead we got lectured on what it means to be a swinger and that there was something wrong with us because we didn't want to just jump in bed with someone that we weren't comfortable with. it seems amiss to me that the community as a whole keeps saying "no means no" and "swinging is what you make it" and then in the same breath tells me that that i'm not truly a swinger because i'm not doing it right. to me, that's not being supportive, it's being judgmental.

thanks again for all the advice and i again apologize for losing my temper...

[Hotwife Sharona]

Do what feels right to YOU.

Do not be persuaded by what 'swingers' tell you is 'the way it is'.

Swingers are like Jelly Bellies-they are delightfully delicious alone-but not all combinations are tastey. For example-you do NOT want to mix a buttered popcorn jelly belly with a cappacino jelly belly. Ick. :surrender although extremely tasty with the RIGHT pairing, they just don't match up.

People are so totally different-and that is TOTALLY OKAY! as long as you have patience to find who YOU are looking for stick with it.

(but if you are looking to speed the process my advice is attend a swingers club or swingers party where you can meet people face to face right there & know whether or not you even want to become friends.)

.....but I'm just a southern girl who likes Arbor Mist & vodka........

[good times]

For what it is worth, we have never really been into the vanilla club scene either, but swingers clubs are a whole different thing. For us, the reason we go to clubs rather than use the swinger ad sites to meet people is mainly a matter of available time management. We can meet as many compatible couples in one night at a club as we can in several months of contacting people on the swinger date sites. Actually, we have met more compatible couples in any 2-4 club nights than we have in 5 years of being on Swing Lifestyle.

[TheDeal]

We belong to CT and meet a ton of folks from there. Of course it helps that it is more focused on the local scene. It's funny, the clubs are almost an extension of the site. You see the same people, you just hate to call them thier profile name. he-he!

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by TheDeal

I totally agree about wasting others time. I wish there were a sign or flag for those of us that were new or just friends first. I don't want to waste any ones time. All the sites have flags for Bi, age, etc... There really should be one for the others.

When we meet other couples, we typically simply ask them straight out what they are looking for, in a courteous manner. This is the fastest way to know if we are incompatible. We even ask people we're not interested in, just because we're all open about our sexuality and it's fun to talk about it. It doesn't have to lead anywhere.

And obviously your profile ought to state quite clearly whether you're a "friends first" couple, or really just looking to hang out with people who swing. Just because there's no "flag" as there is for being a bi-sexual is no reason to hold back the information. That's what the profile is for. TheDeal, I bet your profile is clear on your place in the lifestyle, right?

Other people ask us the same questions. When we were newbies, it was a little disconcerting to be asked, "Are you bisexual"? or "Do you play on the first date"?, or, at a party, "Hey, wanna go back to our room?" after meeting only for a few minutes, but we got over any discomfort with being asked those things pretty quickly. No one means any harm or disrespect.

As the OP has found out, there are some hot-button issues in the lifestyle... a few of the big ones discussed often here are: how well you have to know each other before you feel comfortable playing, whether you'll do separate rooms, how much girl-girl action you're looking for, whether you're a full swap couple, whether you insist on condoms and more.

I think one of the differences between newbies and veterans is that most veterans will just get everything out in the open before a lot of energy is wasted. At least, I hope this is the case, and I also hope I don't insult anyone by saying that. A lot of the frustrations with finding compatible couples can be short-circuited with a little conversation. If you discover deal-breakers, then you can keep talking and making friends with each other without wondering if it's going anywhere, and move on when it's right.

[Menage_a_Trois]

First off, I would like to apologize if anyone took offense to my post on this subject. I would also like to clarify a few things. At no point did I say in either post that there was only one way to swing. At no point did I say that taking the time to find people you are comfortable was wrong or that it made you less of a swinger. If fact I said the opposite

Originally Posted by Menage_a_Trois

I am not saying that swinging is the same for everyone, nor am I saying that everyone should do or be searching for the same thing.

Originally Posted by Menage_a_Trois

Do I think your expectations are too high? Well that is a tough question, but in the end, only you can decide that. Please keep in mind I am not saying you are right or wrong, I am merely going to point out a few things about the lifestyle, only you can decide what works for you...

.....Don’t get me wrong, the lifestyle is what YOU make it, and if you need to have your play partners be “friends” or something more significant that just casual sex, then you need to keep in mind that you are going to experience more frustration and that how you view the lifestyle in different than how most do. Moreover, because of that you will have a harder time finding couples that meet your “requirements”.

My original post was intended to address the title of this thread and the OP's post about what was going on and how to get back into the "game". I was merely pointing why they maybe experiencing a "drought" and why many couples shy away from the "friends first" crowd. It was an attempt to help with their frustration, by understanding why it is difficult to find what they are looking for. It was not an accusation that they were doing anything wrong, nor was I being condescending.

My second post was NOT directed at the OP. It was in reaction to things that another poster stated about the lifestyle and how the new people in it were changing it. It did become a bit of a rant, and strayed from the OP's subject, for that I apologize. However, I still stand by the points I was trying to make to the other poster about the lifestyle and the "changes" on the horizon.

If anyone was offended because they thought I was saying they were NOT swingers (I know the OP hates that term, but it is the easiest way to address those of us who are in the Swinging Lifestyle), let me clarify what I said and how it was meant.
The Swing Lifestyle encompasses people from all walks of life and a wide variety of sexual appetites. To me a "swinger" or "lifestyle person" is someone interested in pursuing sex (full swap or soft swap) with someone other than his or her SO. I do NOT think that there is only one way to pursue the lifestyle, nor do I think that everyone has to jump right into bed with the first person he or she meets. Everyone MUST be comfortable with what is going on or it just does not work for them. This is all about having fun, if you are doing something you are not comfortable with, and then you are not having fun. Just like most people in the lifestyle, I believe that couples should approach and pursue things at their own pace, regardless of what anyone else thinks. If you are only comfortable taking baby steps and easing your way into things that is great or if you want to jump into the deep end with both feet that is ok too. Some couples start wanting to full swap, while others only want to do a little petting and oral. There is no right or wrong way, only what you and your partner is comfortable doing. However, one thing that most have in common is that at some point they hope to get comfortable enough with the each other and the right couple (or people) so that it progresses to some form of sexual exchange. Everyone’s approach and comfort level varies. Some people are only interested in soft play, while others desire full swaps in separate rooms and of course everything in between. At the end of the end of the day, after all is said and done you still have to be ok with each other, the relationship with your SO is the most important thing. The lifestyle is not for everyone, truth be told there are actually only a small percentage of people who can be in the lifestyle, because of the dynamics of it. Most people are not wired that way. That in no way makes us right and them wrong, it is just who we are. In the same way that some people are straight and some are bi or gay, it is just who they are, not right or wrong. What I was addressing in my rant, had to do with what The DEAL said about the influx of new people into the lifestyle and how they were changing it. When I was talking about people not being true swingers it had to do with a growing trend at clubs and parties of people who do not intend to be swingers and are only there because they think hanging out with swingers is "cool". They are turned on by the open sexuality of it, but have no desire or intention of participating. There is an increasing number of people who attend clubs and parties that are only there so that they can watch a "live sex" show. For those that do not attend swing clubs or parties you may not know about this. However, those that do you know exactly what I am talking about. Yes, the internet has brought some great advantages to the Lifestyle, it is much easier to get information and ask questions (like this site); it has also made it much easier to contact and find others who share similar interest. But it has brought along with it a large group of people who get turned on by saying they are swingers, post profiles, act like they are pursuing things, but never have the intention of it going anywhere. It is a kind of foreplay for them. In addition, the internet has made swing clubs and parties much more in the open, drawing people whose only intent is to attend for some titillation for them. I am sorry but those people are NOT swingers and they are NOT lifestyle people. Those of us in the lifestyle are NOT here to help people like that get excited or get their rocks off, that is NOT what the swing lifestyle is about. Please keep in mind, I am NOT talking about a couple who is trying to ease their way into things and are only interested in starting off with same room sex( meeting another couple, but only playing with your own SO) Lots of couples start off like that. I am talking about people whose only interest is pretend to be a swinger so that they can get some excitement out of watching people have sex or be around the lifestyle. There is a HUGE difference. I hope this clarifies where I was coming from, it was never my intention to cause hard feelings, for that I am sorry. I will be the first to admit that I love a good thought provoking discussion, with a wide variety of opinions. I tend to be passionate about my own opinions, just ask anyone who knows me( especially A and P, Mrs. ménage and The Other Mrs. ménage), however that does not mean that I think others opinions are wrong( well some are… LOL). My attitude is that if we all agreed, we would never learn anything and life would be boring.

Thanks for listening
T – Mr. Ménage

[lovemonkey#1]

thanks for clarifying your thoughts. i admit that i was probably too reactionary in some of my posts but i have run across many people who have given me and my wife a hard time about what we are doing and how we are doing it. the very first couple we ever talked to about swinging chastised us because we didn't want to play with them on our first meeting. we told them prior to our meeting via email that we prefer not to play on a first date so there's no pressure and so we can determine if there's indeed a chemistry. besides, this would be our first ever experience and we were a little nervous about it and needed to ease it to it. they got mad at us, told us that they had played on their first date and they kept pressuring us after we repeatedly told them that we weren't into it. we immediately stopped contact with them and because of it, i think that we got blacklisted on a few websites because people started blocking us left and right. not a "this couple wants to be hidden from couples" type of block but a "this couple has blocked YOU". so, i may be a little sensitive about it and it left a very bad taste in my mouth.

i apologize for flying off the handle and you're certainly welcome to have your opinions. i've never attended a club so i wasn't aware of the voyeur only phenomenon. perhaps i should have read your post a little closer. one point of advice though, put some paragraph indentations in there so it'll be easier to navigate .

my wife and i have both read over these posts and a lot of people have given us some interesting and helpful insights. we still maintain that there are certain types of situations that we'd prefer and will pursue but we're also thinking of new strategies and ways to relate to other couples. we just want to be comfortable and have a good time. that's all.

have a great weekend everyone.

j

:surrender :surrender :surrender :surrender :surrender

[The Fuse]

Well put, Mr. Menage!

[dkswingers04]

Menage_a_Trois I do not think I could have said it any better, I truley believe everyone starts out wanting to become friends and then finds that the sex is the reason they got into the lifestyle and that the friends can go by the wayside.

It is truley a lot of work to meet a couple that both of you will click with. just think back to your single days and how hard it can be to find a mate, now you have to times that by 2.

[Allways]

Menage, it's an interesting argument you present and a multi-faceted one, and while you make valid points I think you would do well to set aside your own prejudices against newbies and consider that you contradict yourself.

You state that each person must approach and pursue at their own pace and at that which feels comfortable, regardless of what anyone else thinks, yet you make judgments about those who "are just there to watch". How do you know these people are not just moving in their own, comfortable baby steps? Perhaps that is their way of moving into a new sexual way of being. Some people are naturally open with their sexuality, and some people evolve. I don't feel comfortable making judgments about those people who might just need time to adjust and I certainly won't label them as fakes, nor will I make decisions about what is an appropriate period of adjustment or acceptable movement toward having sex with me.

You say there is a growing trend of people at clubs and parties who do not intend to be swingers, but how do you make a determination about their intent? Unless they specifically tell you that, I don't think it's anyone's place to judge. If they do tell you they have no intention of ever doing anything but watching you, and you are not comfortable with that, then don't invite them back to the party, and don't communicate with them in the clubs. What is wrong with live and let live?

From my perspective, sexual growth and openness in any form is something that should be appreciated and encouraged. There is not enough of it in our society, and attacking those people attracted to it for whatever reason is not conducive to a better human experience. I like people for who they are inside, and deeply enjoy making a connection that goes beyond mere physical acts of getting off and moves into the realm of experiencing who they are as a human being, be it for five mintues, five hours, or five years.

I will not judge or condemn anyone who wishes to hang with me because I am a swinger, because I enjoy an open sexual lifestyle, or because they find what I do exciting or interesting. If a person lies, deliberately misleads, or makes a mockery of the lifestyle I have chosen, then shame on them. But if they are seeking a more open, sexual, human experience, then there is room for them in my world in whatever way they are comfortable.

I don't have to fuck you to like you, but I DO have to like you to fuck you.

[lovemonkey#1]

while i've never been to a club, i have to admit that when my wife and i first started talking about swinging we considered it. we weren't sure we would be into it, didn't know what to expect and even tried to read up on it a little bit. we thought that it might be beneficial for us to go just to see what it was all about (swinging, that is). we weren't sure if we wanted to actually participate but we felt like just being in a sexually charged atmosphere would be a good way to initiate ourselves into taking the plunge. we never went obviously, but had we gone our motivation wouldn't have been to go just for the sake of exploiting other couples or treating them like zoo exhibits.

like the previous poster pointed out, some people need to evolve into being more open sexually and we are counted among those who need a little more time to adjust. we know what we WANT to do and how we WANT things to be but as we all can attest, those things aren't always in sync with what our instincts tell us. for us, there was a step, then evaluation, another step, another evaluation. we've come to many new conclusions along the way but we choose to see our sexual progress/experimentation as a process and a growing experience.

i do sense a certain prejudice against newbies or people that want to take things a little slower and part of me can see why. nobody wants to be jerked around and have their time wasted. some newbies do drag their feet or bring in a lot of drama. i get that. but some of the more experienced swingers need to realize how intimidating it can all be. i mean, we've ALL been there on some level.

i'm not going to go so far as to say that there are no bad apples in a swing club but i do think that a fair share of those voyeur couples probably have the best intentions and are simply curious about what it's all about and trying to come to terms with their own comfort levels. how courteous they are in the moment, i can't say... but they might just be uncomfortable or struggling with their own issues.

dunno, just a thought...

[yourbitterpill]

I have to agree with Hotwife and Allways.

lovemonkey#1, there's nothing wrong with being discriminating about who you "swing" with. Personally, Mrs. Pill and I are in exactly the same camp as you - we like having sex with other people but we'd at least like to get to know them and have some form of social intercourse before going further. As our exposure to "the lifestyle" grows, we've found that there are a growing number of others who want the same thing - not just simple fucking and running and not a poly relationship, but somewhere in the middle. For better or worse, "the lifestyle" is changing and I think that's hard for a lot of "veterans" to come to terms with.
We've found that most of the couples who can't wait even one non-play date before taking it further are almost always the ones we DON'T want to be with anyway. We'd rather meet one awesome couple who are recurring and know us initimately, then any number of impersonal "one-night stands". It's not like we HAVE to have sex with everyone we meet; Mrs. Pill and I already have a rocking sex life with just the two of us.
It's sort of like going to the sushi bar. You don't just pick up every little plate that passes by you, snarfing it down without actually tasting it. No, you look and you pick what you like, savoring each bite and enjoying that experience before moving unto the next (or perhaps getting the same dish if it comes back around?).
So, forget what all the self proclaimed swinging gurus have to say about "swinging" just being all about sex. Swinging may be all about sex for them, but it may also be about stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others. Relax and take your time. Enjoy your "drought" by focusing your energies elsewhere. It's been my experience that the best things tend to happen when you're not actively looking for them.