"Caste System" in the Lifestyle Based on Age/Beauty?

[TLO7777]

In the Top 100 thread on certifications someone posted the following comment:

If I see that a couple's certs are, for example, mostly 20 or 30-something pretty people, we won't bother with them. (As someone else has already alluded, there is a very definite caste system in the lifestyle, based on age and level of physical attractiveness.)

How many others feel the same way about this?

Obviously most will not get in touch with a couple that doesn't seem attractive to them, but are there many of you that are reluctant to approach a couple because you think they are "out of your league"?

My wife and I are a bit younger than most and many find us quite attractive. While we do want to find our potential playmates attractive... this is of course a subjective thing, and for us, physical beauty is a plus but not even close to our top priority.

We're actually quite open to playing with partners that are 10-15 years older and not of the same physical body type as us. For example we both find women on the curvy side far more appealing than gym rats. Being fit is fine, but too thin is actually a turn off.

I'd hate for a couple to pass us over because they thought we were in a different "caste" than they are.

What's your experience? Do you regularly contact couples that are outside of your own age/shape/looks bracket?

Dante
--
YoungMauiCouple at Swing Lifestyle

[Chicup]

There is most definately a caste system in the lifestyle.

A majority of couples don't want to 'trade' to far down in terms of looks. This can also apply to money, personality, and education as well. Some couples will be more open to different types of people, but in our area there is most definately the A list B list C list type couples.

Of course this isn't 'bad' its just how people are vanilla or swingers. Now with what you described as people passing you over because they figured they didn't have a chance, thats also understandable. After you have been hurt (and even in swinging, getting rejected because of your looks/age whatever can hurt the ego) you don't want to invite that again, even if it means you will miss out with those few couples that would be interested in you that seem out of your league.

From a drama stand point, this is more of an issue for forums where the arrogance of some of the A list types gets offensive, or where the hurt feelings of the C list types boils over into a rant about all beautiful people. It crops up on this board a bit, but I've seen a LOT of it on LL, to the point where there are a number of attractive people I wouldn't have sex with, with someone elses penis . I've yet to see it manifested in person at a club/event, though I'm sure its had to become an issue at some point, we just haven't been around for it.

As for us, we are B-B+ types and we tend to keep in that group as it seems we have the most in common beyond looks there too. Mrs. Chicup has been doing the gym a lot but while my weight is good, I need to start going back myself if we want to hit that A- look

Edit:The caste system is very evident at events/clubs, just to be clear. The pretty people tend to stay together, and everone gets to their 'level'. It just doesn't seem to cause the same drama you see on line.

[good times]

I suppose their is some of this but it isn't how we operate. We may not hook up with everyone we interact with but we don't refuse to associate with anyone based on their looks or some other external attribute. As far as finding partners to hook up with goes our only initial requirement is that we find them attractive. Then if we all seem to mesh mentally and on a sexual level we can proceed from there. I will admit though that we have often had others tell us that they wouldn't talk to someone because they didn't think they had a chance with them. That seems kind of defeatist to me. We have also run across several younger couples that have a hard time finding play partners because the older couples assume they wouldn't be interested in them.

[lovedoctor]

Originally Posted by Chicup

.

I need to start going back myself if we want to hit that A- look

.

Dude, come on!

You know you are A list material just based on your personality! facelick

[Pepper & Drew]

Yes, there is a class system in the lifestyle, but I think that it's not as rigid as people think it is. Sure, we tend to hook up with people who are in the same age range and fitness level as we are, but we like to mingle and talk to everyone. This isn't high school, and band kids and the cheerleaders can mingle with the computer nerds and football players. I think people find comfort in people who look like them and are in the same station of life, but honestly, we've had fun with older, younger, heavier and lighter folks.

Pepper

[fun4Ds]

as for us we were just talking about this at the store. i was checkin out a gal in line and mrs.fun made a comment that after swinging a while i seem to check out people more. yes the girl was a little ....thicker but like i told mrs.fun im 25% looks and 75%personality.as for meeting people in clubs we mingle with everyone all ages and sizes. but now on line im thinkin are people passin us up because of looks alone .?

[dezaray]

Hello,

This is a great topic to bring up and one that is a little confusing to me as well. My boyfriend and I arent in the best of shape, although were not extremely overweight either. We consider ourselves to be good looking individuals and do seek potential play mates that we are both attracted to. When reading profiles, if it reads, "Looking for another couple *in-shape* or *tight bodies*" I wont want to respond, it seems clear that they are only looking for other couples of similar body types to themselves. To a degree, I feel the same way... I wouldnt be attracted to a woman that was a good bit heavier than myself, or a woman that was too thin either. In deciding to respond to a profile or not, the written words really have to grab me as well as their photos. In a situation above, I wouldnt respond, because were not what they are looking for, so why waste anyones time...

It's great that other things are more important to you guys. I agree, however physical attraction is a must no matter the age, sometimes its there, sometimes its not.

BTW- I'm new here this is actually my very 1st post. I like what I see so far, after reading the Dos & Donts particularly where it mentions "communication". So far I've not come across many couples that are too interested in a lot of communication, they just want to meet and get down to business, which im not comfortable with at all. I have my boundaries, and demand they be respected. I imagine its not wise to assume things in this lifestyle, therefore I seek other couples that are able to communicate their desires and limits.

[NandTfromCA]

Would out of leagueness keep us from emailing someone? No. If we think a couple is attractive (physical or otherwise), we approach them. And just to put things into perspective, we have had as many people dis us as have responded favorably. Some of the dis’ers have been far less physically attractive than some of the favorable responders.

The lifestyle is a tough place for people that don’t deal well with rejection. To keep the baseball analogy, you have to swing at many pitches…and strike out several times…to get a home run. So swing away

Is there a cast system? If you mean “hot” young people who wont meet with not-so-hot older people, sure there is. There are also some serious people who wont meet with funny people…blue collar people who wont meet with white collar people…smart people who wont meet with dumb people…etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing though. It’s just the way it is. Couples have limited time and have to choose who they want to spend it with. Those factors may help them in finding compatibility.

TLO7777- If you’re concerned, you might put something in your profile that indicates your openness to at least respond and/or meet with couple independent of age and beauty. You would have to wordsmith it but I think you could come up with something that accurately describes your position on the subject.

[WesternSwing]

There does seem to be a caste system, and I hate to beat-up on any one group but in our area it seems to be the 20-something "Barbie & Ken's" living on the fringe of the Lifestyle that promote it. We saw this at the club last night. There was a group of half a dozen couples, all 20-something metro-sexual males and bleach-blonde, big-boobed, skinny women that were keeping together as a group. Everything they did was as a group, never venturing outside of that group to mingle and talk with anybody else. I don't think anyone ever got more than 15 feet from the group alone. Watching them move through the club was like watching a flock of Starlings fly. It was like high school with their little "clique". They thought they were all that... the general concesus amongst others was "what pretencious assholes, where'd they come from?"

Other then small instances like this, it seems most of those in the Lifestyle in our area are very open to others and don't follow the caste system. We are constantly amazed when someone contacts us and we thought we would never be their type. I really like Utah swingers!

Mr. WS

[Sweet_Candy]

Our 2 cents worth . . . yes there are those who act like they never left high school and there are those who've moved on to bigger and better things in life. We prefer the latter. The thought of being part of a group/cliché is not why we are here. Swinging is like life there are many reasons we are attracted to some and not to others. Age, looks, personality all come in to play and don't kid yourself if you think otherwise.

[bear_n_bunny]

Absolutely there is a "caste system" in swinging. It's largely divided by general "attractiveness" and age, and to a somewhat lesser extent, socioeconomic class.

And make no mistake, some people can be downright brutal about it, too.

Maybe in Utah things are different, but in Texas (and in Houston in particular) the caste system definitely exists. You see it at the clubs, both on and off-premise, the various house party groups, and so forth.

However, with a little effort you can find swinger couples, groups and clubs where you can fit right in, even if you don't meet the "approved" Barbie and Ken clone criteria as "acceptable" play partners, and still have every bit as much fun as the pretty people do. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt...

-- Bear

[MB1991]

It seems to be very regional even in the online sites. Sites that target certain regions (or end up with mostly people from that region) seem to reflect that region's prejudices.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by bear_n_bunny

Absolutely there is a "caste system" in swinging. It's largely divided by general "attractiveness" and age, and to a somewhat lesser extent, socioeconomic class.

And make no mistake, some people can be downright brutal about it, too.

Maybe in Utah things are different, but in Texas (and in Houston in particular) the caste system definitely exists. You see it at the clubs, both on and off-premise.

I can see what you are saying here, and yes, the immature mind definitely divides it up like you say. We see it all the time. However, like Sweet_Candy said, just because you're not attracted to someone for one reason or another is not a reason to keep them at arms length socially, which the caste system does. It puts an invisible wall up to keep the "undesirables" out. I feel that out here the majority of swingers seem to be open-minded and even if they are not attracted to someone in a sexual sense, they are still invited to all the parties and they all still socialize with each other.

The instance I mentioned earlier was these couples blocking out all socializing with those that didn't fit their criteria. Which is fine, they are losers in this scenario since they lose out on knowing some great people. We have many friends that are fantastic to party with, but we will probably never have sex with because there just isn't the chemistry there in that manner.

Ah, why can't we all just get along.

Mr. WS

[havefuninsun]

This is no different than meeting people in the vanilla world. Perceptions are a funny thing. Mr. Fun and I met on a dating site; I had my picture up and he did not. He thinks he takes horrid pictures. In fact, our first date was a true blind date for me. He told me after we had dated for a while that he almost didn't even write me because I looked like I might be out of his league -- a "pretty people" -- folks who go for the "Kens." I am thankful every day he wrote to me ... I was ready to take my profile down when he saw me, so chances are I would have never taken the initiative to find him.

So -- just email folks you're interested in. If the first thing out of their mouth involves pics, etc., or if they don't write back or if they write back "no thanks" -- what do you have to lose, but an opportunity to meet some really fun people.

As the Nike ads say, "just do it."

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

Mr. Fun and I met on a dating site...He told me after we had dated for a while that he almost didn't even write me because I looked like I might be out of his league -- a "pretty people" -- folks who go for the "Kens." I am thankful every day he wrote to me ... I was ready to take my profile down when he saw me, so chances are I would have never taken the initiative to find him.

So -- just email folks you're interested in. If the first thing out of their mouth involves pics, etc., or if they don't write back or if they write back "no thanks" -- what do you have to lose, but an opportunity to meet some really fun people.

As the Nike ads say, "just do it."

Great story, and some great advice, that applies to meeting people generally, whether in the swinging or the vanilla world.

Most of my "first dates"...over 90%, in fact, are from online, vanilla dating sites. I almost never initiate contact, but when I do, I always set my "reach" a little higher than what I think I could ever hope to "grasp." I am continually surprised at how well some of those liasons turn out.

If I've learned anything from all this, it's that I have no idea who might be interested in me or why, and that if anybody catches my eye, it's worth taking a chance to contact them.

Reading some of the posts on SB leaves me with the impression that many couples who are interested in becoming swingers are "first-loves" who dated other people little, if any, prior to marriage. If that's the case, it's possible that they've never really developed some of the skills necessary to date successfully. I'm not that good at it myself, but my best friend is, and we both live by a few simple rules when meeting new people. I'm passing them along because "dating is dating," whether it's a club or website, 1 person looking for 1, 2 looking for 2, 2 looking for 1, or whatever...

1) In a club or an online dating site, never initiate contact with just one other person/ couple. Wait until you've identified at least 5 or 6, then move on them all in fairly rapid succession, if possible. You're likely to get a positive response from at least one of them, which will pretty much negate whatever rejection you might feel by the ones who don't respond.

2) Plan, ahead of time, for at least 50% rejection. As he says, "If you're not getting dumped by at least half the people you're going out with, you're setting your sights too low." So what if 80% of the people you contact aren't interested? Think of the fun you'll be having with the 20% who DO...

You can only have so many people in your bed, your room, or your life anyway. Why not make them people who really count?

3) NEVER make assumptions about what other people may find attractive or unattractive about you. Human beings are far too fickle, and the science of sexual attraction far too to indefinite, for any of us to possibly know what others may find desireable in any of us. While you're worried about your age, your fat butt, little dick or whatever, somebody else is looking at your eyes, chest, or toes, and thinking, "Oh YEAH, BABY"

Don't presume you know more about what other people find attractive in a potential mate than they do, and don't fret over the ones who aren't interested in you, or you'll likely miss opportunities with the ones who are.

Yes, there's a "caste system" in the swinging/dating world. The problem is that many of us have no idea of which "caste" we belong to. When we feel we aren't fitting into one, we assume it's because we've set our goals too high, when in fact, the opposite is often as likely to be true.