Why can't we find what we want?

[disqreetcouple]

No offense Dutch but the last people I would approach would be hosters of a swing club or party. The reason I say this is because this can go both ways. Do they host swing parties because they can't get people to hook up with them? I'm sure there are people here who have approached swing party hosts and have had great success. Just me personally I wouldn't.

You guys feel exactly the same way we do when it comes to what we are looking for. Too bad you don't live closer

We don't want just swap partners that we have nothing in common with either. We are extremely picky also. We only have been doing this for about 8 months so we are pretty much in the same boat as you. The last couple we were with, there were some issues.

I hope you guys don't give up because of that prick who got the chair out. My wife and I have had some great experiences in this lifestyle even with the majority not clicking with us

It does take a lot of patience. I wish you both the best of luck on finding the "right" couple.

[JustAskJulie]

I have to wonder if it wasn't that the woman was upset she didn't get laid but moreso the husband when he found out she didn't get laid and that you just talked.... perhaps that's something they don't do?

Or perhaps, and I know others have expressed in the past that this is something they find a little too "intimate" the whole getting naked and just talking while cuddling (I am assuming the cuddling because I don't think you said that).

It really is a hard line, of how sensitive/intimate you can be with playmates without being too intimate. There's a thread on that here somewhere.... I think this might be it.

[Chemistry_0518]

Originally Posted by dutch51

We've been fucked over before.That's really not important.The main point is after having things blow up in our face from a couple that really should have been the last people in the world to have a problem with things,we really feel like our luck sucks.

There now I said too much so me and wifey are even...lol

thanks for listening,now turn off the computer and go have some fun dammit!! A

We are all in the same club here. It is impossibel to totally ensure that four different personalities are going to be on the same wavelength 100% of the time. Just chalk it up to experience (one that I am absolutely certain that every single person on this board has!)

Keep the faith. Your time WILL come.

[dutch51]

Ok some very good points brought up here.Yes Disgreetcouple,we should have looked at the "club hosts" aspect from both angles.Since the club was well established we thought the hosts would be more stable.Shoulda looked at it from both sides.Bad newbie,bad bad newbie.Don't take that wrong,I have a sense of humor and it is slowly coming back.You did make a VERY VERY good point.

Now on to Julie: Yes the more we look at it the more our having a rapport with his wife seems to have been an issue.But I will defend us on this point.(not that your attacking but you all keep making me be MORE honest...grrrr.)

She approached us first.Not in a sexual way but a conversational way.Turns out we all lived in the same area for years.Actually her and I lived for years on opposite sides of the same hill.This can go one of two ways.Either familiarity causes problems,or similarites cause bonding.The three of us definitely bonded.(oh yeah,we just talked that night too)

Next time we were there I made an effort to talk to him,and it seemed to click.I mean long talks over a bottle of tequila until 7 or 8 am.And he seemed to really like us.

At no point in time am I having private conversations with his wife.They were all open and non secretive.He seemed to not mind the comraderie that was developing.Looking back on it he might not have seen talking as a problem since all it is supposed to do is lead to fucking which is the main goal.

Can we please ignore the sex aspect of all of this for one second.The wife would have been a wonderful "Vanilla" friend to have.We thought the same of him.Our thoughts on him have changed.But not her.Which is why this is still bugging us and your all at least listening and offering advice,which we do appreciate.

It's kinda ironic.Sometimes you have "Vanilla" friends that you wish were swingers,and sometimes you have swinger friends that you wish were "Vanilla" just so these problems wouldn't get in the way of the friendship. Never want to see him again,but my wife is really missing her dance partner right now.Ah well couples are package deals.(sorry got sentimental there,he's a jerk,but damn she meant a lot to us.)

Anyway I'm sure someone out there might be thinking I'm trying to paint myself and wifey in too good of a light.So please let me ruin your positive perception of us.lol

I in particular am not perfect.And I've probably just done something really stupid,and am about to get my head knocked off.

I've been chewed out for e-mailing them too much,not e-mailing enough,being too sensitive,not being sensitive enough,only caring about fucking his wife,not wanting to fuck his wife ect.ect.

I've finally had enough.

I'm not going to blow up and "throws chairs and shake my fist." I tend to give things more thought.When I calm down and think,that's when I get angry.

So I have invited this guy to pummel me if he wants.Not in HIS club or HIS house.But nice neutral territory.If he names the place I gotta go.MAybe he'll get what he deserves,maybe I'll get my head knocked in.But he's a total control freak,we used to call them bullies when we all were younger.And he ruined something that meant a great deal to two and we're pretty sure three of us.Plus he scared my wife.She's not used to people wanting to knock my head off.

He might just do his usual and bad mouth me in e-mails.But if he doesn't and posts from me become slower it's because I typed them with the only unbroken finger I have left.To all the "nice guys" out there I think we all can agree,you can only be told your not fucking because your too "pussified" to " get what you want" so many times before you snap.Or asked why we think a woman might actually like to talk to us rather than fuck right away before we snap.

I only bring this up because I hate to be accused of making myself sound too perfect.I'm not.I can be pushed into being a neanderthal.

It's not going to change anything I know,but about the time he started bragging about all the assault charges he's had filed against him,I felt too damn stupid for trusting him to let it just go away.I probably should have but I am a guy.I can be a little stupid.And now you all know I can freely admit it.

Now if you all will excuse me I need to finish my hot and sour soup.(this stuff looks like dirty cafeteria water but damn is it good.)

Thanks for listening (sincerely) A

[findtime]

Oh, A! This guy sounds unstable (and has from the beginning). Is it worth it? Can't you just block his e-mails? How do you think your wife will feel if you do this, especially if you end up hurt. How is it going to save your pride if he pounds you then gets to brag about it (of course it may go the other way. I'm not counting you out, but that's not the point.)?

Rethink this, rethink this, rethink this!!!!

[northindycpl]

Yes... rethink, rethink. rethink! I would hate for it to come to blows. I can understand your point, and he had no right to say that to you. But I would hate to hear that youhave beaten a man to death n the evening news!

As an Adult I believe (and understand) that it takes a bigger man to walk away.

[EternallySingle]

Actually, dutch, what you said reconfirmed what I originally posted. The husband decided it was inappropriate for you and your wife to be talking to his wife but not having sex. I'm sorry, but sex is a really big part of the problem. Mainly, the husband doesn't sound like he has a mature attitude about what his life likes and wants in the people they meet compared to what he wants.

Something similar happened to me once, and sex was in no way involved or expected(at least I hope it wasn't). A guy I knew asked if I wanted to come by his house for a pool party. I got there and there were about 20 people, mostly couples but a few singles. I talked to him for a while, then went mingling. A little while later he comes up and asks why I've been disrespecting his wife by ignoring her. ??????? I said hello and talked to her as much as I did any of the other married women, which was light banter when their husbands were present. Other than that, I was spending time with one of the five single women or the guys. I even made a date with a woman that turned out to be the wife's sister. Still, he was upset because she felt she didn't get as much attention from me as her sister. Different situation, same problem, I think.

When it comes to swinging, you are not doing anything wrong. You are just meeting the wrong people. That will change eventually. You just have to take more time to find out if both members of the couple are on the same page as you. More importantly, if they are willing to go at your speed instead of always at their speed. Thats with any friendship, no matter how casual. But especially, it seems, in swinging, where sex is always a possibility.

[jcbicouple]

We can't blame you for being ticked Dutch51, or for wanting to kick this guys butt! Especially if he scared your wife!
However! Meeting him probably isn't a good idea. We aren't suggesting that you avoid him, just that you hit "ignore" and leave the confrontation to chance. As for his wife: Well, You'll have to leave her behind too. If this was a case where she knew the boundries within their relationship (someone mentioned that maybe they had some intimacy rules) then she should have told you he would be uncomfortable with the situation. It's really tough to believe that she didn't know that he has issues. Regardless of whether she knew or not, she's his wife. Couples are a package deal so she stays behind, on ignore, with him. We wish you much better luck in the future!!

[TNT]

Originally Posted by disqreetcouple

No offense Dutch but the last people I would approach would be hosters of a swing club or party. The reason I say this is because this can go both ways. Do they host swing parties because they can't get people to hook up with them? I'm sure there are people here who have approached swing party hosts and have had great success. Just me personally I wouldn't.

Just couldn't stand it anymore. As a couple who has hosted quite a few swing parties and socials, this just couldn't be any more false. I assure you that the reason is NOT because we can't get people to hook up with us. We have more offers than there are days to meet them and the quickest and best way to not ever be able to meet anyone for playtime is to host the social.

Ted

[dutch51]

To fully understand this post please refer to the Need to Vent thread.It really is neccessary to understand the rest of this post.

We have identified exactly what we did wrong with our last couple.We were concentrating too hard on one member of the couple,and not paying enough attention to the action's of the other half.The warning signs were there,looking back they were obvious.Hold on I gotta smack myself and say stupid stupid stupid.Ok I'm done.

We can't exactly give details on what those signs were without sounding like we are trying to badmouth another couple.We really do not want that type of reputation.We do want to still be welcome in the swinger community after all.

When it comes to personal limits,we really feel it is every couples responsibility to fully discuss their own limits with the other couple.If something is not mentioned in discussions and one or the other mate violates a rule that is between the two of you.You do not take your anger out on the other couple.It is not their fault,nor are they to blame.Some men cannot treat women like a piece of ass.Does not mean we want an intense relationship.We just still view them as ladies.Please mention if this bothers you to the other couple.

Now,on to the "pummel me if you want" e-mail.Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that.I only did so no one could accuse me of trying to sound to innocent.I can be pushed into being a neanderthal.What's done is done.And I will probably end up worse off for my pride,but sometimes it's all you've got. Don't worry about it,never meant to cause such a stir with my admission.

At this point the main problem still lingering is I was threatened by a club owner.A person I had been developing a relationship with for months.Hey I am a man but this is scary.Please understand I do not think our experiance is typical of everyone elses.But it is something to watch out for,and I have not seen it mentioned before so I'll go into detail about our feelings on our experiance.

All it takes to open a club is the money to buy the building.We thought it also meant a comfortableness and acceptance of the lifestyle.It doesn't.You still may have the same problems with the host and hostess you would have with anyone else.He talked her into doing it.She wanted it and he bought it to appease her.They were interested and jumped in to see what it was like...ect.ect.

When this happens it gets scary for the patrons,especially newbies.Because if a club host will throw a chair in your direction after six months of trying to establish a friendship,what does that mean someone else will do?

Ok a few details needed.The night that led to my posting the "Need to Vent" thread went like this.After everyone had left the host kept attacking and insulting me verbally.I brought up religion and politics in the club,I'm an ass.I didn't fuck his wife when she wanted I just talked to her(please read previous thread there were reasons for me doing THAT one.)And I just took it.Naturally I was getting aggravated but I just sat there.Than he called me another patrons name.I corrected him.Than he blew it off saying it wasn't important and I said "No,if you can't remember my name than there is no reason to continue this conversation."That's when he snapped.Insults came flying out,his hand drew back and I was told to not ever speak to him like that.So dumbass me said "IF you want to hit me,hit me." Than he threw a chair,broke an ashtray,and went upstairs to wake his wife so she could calm him down.Mind you my voice never raised during all this.If it had hey I'd admit it,might even defend my actions,like I said I'm not perfect.

This is quite frightening.Because all of this was in front of my wife.In case your wondering she went to calm him down so the problem would not escalate.And to his credit he never came at her.(That is however all the credit I'm giving him.)

Hopefully this is a rare experiance and we never meant to color anyone's perception of club or house party hosts.

We are currently looking into his wonderful assault record that he was so quick to brag about later.If we find anything we will let a moderator know so we can figure out the best way to warn people.We are kinda torn.This couple are currently leaving the state and opening a club elsewhere.(Another big clue to run away,hold on head smacking time again,stupid,stupid,stupid.)We are not the first couple to experiance this type of behavior from him,at the time we wanted to believe the excuses he gave for his behavior.We are no longer convinced.Fine line here,we don't want to come across as bitter reputation destroyers,at the same time I really don't want this to happen to anyone else.So if we get hard evidence we'll do what we can.No one deserves what we got.

Now before I say too much (too late) bye bye,happy conjugating...A and M

[TNT]

Something I would like to comment on...

Being a club owner or host of a social does not make you different from anyone else. Your still human. I do agree that those that are hosts should be setting an example to others and should have their own life (swinging and vanilla) together. A host should NOT be playing with a patron of their club/social at the club. The patron has paid to get in, the money has gone to the host, thereby making it paid for sex. This is a big no no. If a host has an interest in someone they met at their place of business then that interest should be kept strictly separate and away from the club.

Now...in a situation like you described the best possible thing you could have done was to walk away and leave. No one wants drama in their life. Even though you may have thought there was a strong friendship being built when things start going sour it's best to just leave. Their problem is not your problem. You got along fine before meeting these people and you will get along fine after they are out of your life.

Originally Posted by dutch51

When it comes to personal limits,we really feel it is every couples responsibility to fully discuss their own limits with the other couple.

That statement is the key. Communication between EVERYONE.

We are all in this for different reasons, some are here for friendship with benefits, others are here for a quick lay and others for just the social aspect of the lifestyle. Everyone wants something different.

There are people in this lifestyle that want exactly what you want, so don't give up hope, afterall, you said you have only been in this for about seven months, which is not very long. You have learned some valuable lessons and now know a little bit more about yourselves as well as others, learning is always good .

Remember to communicate exactly what your looking for and you will find it.

Teresa

[dutch51]

You know this started as my post,but damn you guys keep making come back and say more.If nothing else your keeping us interested with the different points of view.

As for the "pay to enter club+play with hosts=you paid for sex" aspect here was our feeling on that.

We are very much a couple that enjoys the social aspect of the lifestyle.The freedom to express ideas and thoughts without worry of being judged.The sexually charged atmosphere ect.ect.So in a very real way the club had become like our Amvets or Lions Club.Hell in some ways even a Mason Lodge.

Since sex was never the main goal of the evening,it never felt like we paid to get sex.We paid to help with the heating bill,the light bill,and to insure repair and improvements for the club itself.It was more like a (swinger) community supported meeting hall for us.

Our attraction just happened to fall on the host and hostess and for quite awhile it was returned.The couple we enjoyed spending time with(playing or otherwise) could have been anybody.

I'm not taking offense or anything,it's just that wifey and I had discussed this with both of them before,and when I saw the last post I felt like giving more insight into our feelings on the matter.

If the club was making a large profit from the fees we might have felt differently.But it wasn't.The fees were small and the attendance was never THAT great.

Ah well,if this board keeps going the way it is all of you are going to be sick to death of our opinions...lol

But all of you have helped my posts go from anger to expression so thanks. Gee wonder where I get that damn "nice guy" reputation from?

Now please someone laugh before I think no one gets my humour ok?

later,A

[TNT]

Originally Posted by dutch51

Ah well,if this board keeps going the way it is all of you are going to be sick to death of our opinions...lol

Nope, that's what we are all here for, to get different opinions and express our own

I didn't mean it to sound like 'you' paid for sex...just stating the way the law looks at it.

And, I understand your feelings about your club, it's the way we feel about ours...everytime we enter the door I hear the theme song to Cheers playing in my head


Teresa

[jcbicouple]

Originally Posted by dutch51

But all of you have helped my posts go from anger to expression so thanks. Gee wonder where I get that damn "nice guy" reputation from?

Where do you get your rep as a nice guy?! Holly shit Batman! (Please refer to details of chair throwing situation post) That guy would have been lucky to be able to walk out of his own club if he'd have came accross with that violent of an attitude with us! Granted, we'd have left at the name calling/yelling, but if it esculated to the point of chair throwing on his part! Sorry! That OVER the line! As far as we'd be concerned: That person just tried to commit bodily harm to us, and that would definetly end in an unpleasant manner. The only "calming down" the wife of this couple would have been doing would be possibly putting his ass to sleep with another chair! Oh, ya, glad we could help calm you down too. (laugh here)