the unfulfilled dreams

[realcouple30]

Hi all

We are a happily married couple, both 30, fit,active and attractive and all.. and have been dreaming, thinking-then working towards this lifestyle for over a year now. We live in Ohio, which seems to be a happening place for swinging..We know what we want, but are getting a little frustrated and down about whether it is indeed something obtainable. Let us explain

We are absolutely terrified of going to a club and having a raid occur. Our professions are such that with one raid, our careers (not just our jobs, we are almost certain that our careers) would absolutely be over. We have read and read about how rare raids might be, and how to recognize warning signs etc., but when your career could end with one night..well, we feel it is not worth the risk.

The problem is that we really want to meet others! We have been with AFF for well over a year and swinglifestyle.com for about half a year. We met one couple in person from AFF, and had a great time but we have not seen them since.

We must have the worst luck in the world, or we must be doing something wrong because probably 99% of the couples we have either contacted or responded to have either backed out, not responded, scared us away by demanding things (send us a picture with your faces or we won't talk to you) or are otherwise incompatable. We are picky we suppose and that we are sure has narrowed things down, but we assume others are careful as well. We figure others have the same problem sifting through the fake Ids and the second guessers..

The question here is this. We have spent over a year and hundreds of emails (literally) combing through who is real and who is not, who is compatible and who is not etc..and we can't seem to meet any great couples. I know you are all out there...we just can't seem to meet you! We are beginning to think it might be us.(I know, duh, lol)

We are both in shape, professional, yada yada. We are EXACTLY the goody goody looking couple next door that you expect to see packing off to church every Sunday. There HAS to be other normal, goody goody looking couples who are just good people. (Goody goody refers to the daytime side-not the nighttime, lol) We just can't seem to get things started

I know and can understand that tight nit communities have developed both for private concerns and because everyone within those groups have clicked-which is great. We just feel like we can't "break into" things because we cannot hit the clubs. We hear they are fantastic, and great for meeting couples..but..sigh..

We were wondering if anyone had any pointers or ideas for us. Maybe our profile is coming across wrong or maybe we are somehow turning people away without knowing and we don't want to do that!

We don't send our pictures out until we really know and have met the couple, but we always offer to chat cam to cam (the other couple must have a cam also)-face to face so they can see we are real etc. Most people don't have cams it seems, but we thought by offering and showing ourselves they would see our serious and real intent. Everytime we have broken that rule, we have been burned which is why I am sure, others are very demanding about proof. We just wish we would not get emails that say "If you don't send us a face picture, please don't write us". Thats a little hard to swallow on an initial email for us..

Are there other couples out there who feel the same? How do you all determine if someone is real and worth pursuing? Are there better clues and hints we could give out? We like swinglifestyle and the certified system, but how can we be noticed better?

Short of putting on pink bunny suits and running around holding big signs while yodeling..anyone have any ideas?

Anway, thanks for reading everyone

S+J

The two of you sound just like most of us on this board. Except for the fact that you will not do clubs.
I believe you have nothing to worry about by going to clubs unless of course the club its self is illegal in your state.


Let me respond to this:

We must have the worst luck in the world, or we must be doing something wrong because probably 99% of the couples we have either contacted or responded to have either backed out, not responded, scared us away by demanding things (send us a picture with your faces or we won't talk to you)

We are one of those people.
That is one of the first lessons we learned in this lifestyle. We have to know who we are talking to.
My take on this is this:
If you do not have any pics displayed public that is totaly fine.
We will respond to an e-mail from someone who has no pics but tell them we need to see a pic before we go any further. We also tell them we PREFER it be a "G" rated pic.

I think that is where the red flag lays.
If "G" rated pics aren't enough and they want more then stop contact. They are more than likely Pic collectors.

If they are content with a "G" rated pic to see who they are chatting with then I think they are worth giving the benefit of the doubt.

But we will only give a "G" rated pic if they show us who they are.

[good times]

I can understand your concern but have to say I agree with Mr. naughty about the clubs. If the club you go to is on the level as most are, in other words they are not some front for illegal activity like drugs or prostitution then the chances of a raid are pretty remote. Like you we have had lousy luck with the internet adds, in fact while we have met a couple of people from sls it never went anywhere past the first meeting. On the other hand we have had great luck meeting people at the clubs. Like you guys, if our involvment in swinging became public our careers and my business I've worked hard at for 16 years would be ruined. We had some of your same concerns at first but fortanately have been able to find a ballance between risk and gain that allows us to participate without always worying about what could happen. As far as advise about how to improve your success with your personall adds though, I really can't help a lot as we haven't really had any more than you have.

[stoutgatte]

Dito

We are the couple next door, not supermodels but we consider ourselves attractive... We don't struggle to get dates in a very small community, I have to add that my wife has a very cool personality that men in general can't resist , including me...

I think the issue is definitely the fact that u won't send out face pics. People are visual beings... Please read this thread, or this... The first seem to indicate that people in general like to know what the people they chat to look like, the second has some support for your views...

So, we're the lets trade face pics type... We'd never meet someone if we haven't seen their faces, and please consider that they'll know what you look like after the first meeting anyway... So while I'm not saying send out pics to people who ask for them on the first contact, share your concerns with them openly, and assure tham that before you meet you will trade pics of some sort with them... We also prefer G rated pics... Hell, if someone asks me for X rated I'd tell them they're just being silly, and I definitely wouldn't be sending them any...

[RW1F]

I don't understand your avoidance of sending out pics. What is the harm of sending out a picture of your faces and general body. As long as you don't type "wanna fuck us" in the caption what could be the potential harm? If I was on the receiving end of your e-mail I might think you were fake if you weren't willing to send out a "G" rated pic.

[N&G]

Your experiences don't sound unusual at all. My personal opinion is that a very large percentage of ads are fakes, wanabes. picture collectors, or others that are just going to jerk you around. Since clubs are not an option for you then all I can suggest is to keep trying to meet people on the internet and eventually you will get lucky. It took a while for us when we started but we met a couple who have been in the lifestyle for a long time and not only were able to show us the ropes but knew lots of people that they introduced us to. A lot of people demand pictures so sending a "G" rated picture on request is expected. I personally prefer to meet in person rather than make a judgement based on a photo but a lot of people don't share my views.

Keep in mind that no swinging venue is absolutely safe and if you cannot afford to be "outed" then maybe this is not a good lifestyle for you. You cannot trust everyone that you meet to be discreet and not everyone cares if the world knows what they do in their spare time.

[ALilOEverything]

I have to say that to me a someone sharing a pic is showing that they are serious. If someone doesn't want to send a pic I always wonder how serious they really are. We only send g-rated pics so I know that nothing can come of it either. I like to picture who I'm chatting with, if I can't put a face with the chat I do find I lose interest rather quickly. I'm more apt to remember, follow up with, and even fantasize about a meeting and more if I can picture the other couple.

BTW, we went to our first club last night and it was so awesome to see everyone face to face, know their personalities right away...it made the whole ad process look exhausting!

[Alura]

We don't run ads but we sometimes have been contacted by folks who have read our posts on this board.

Normally, our first requirement is a telephone conversation with all four people on the line. The phonies can't fake that.

During that conversation, we like to arrange to have dinner with them and will send a pic of our faces, and hope to get pictures of theirs, so we can recognize each other at the restaurant, not to decide if they are attractive enough to play with.

This likelihood of being caught up in a raid will will dimish quite a lot after November 2nd.

Alura

[Elusive BiFem]

I've never sent pictures and never will, other than to friends I've already met or people I've gotten to know quite well. (And I hope those friends will tell you that I'm less than photogenic! If some of those candid shots are a true representation, I'm better off NOT sending pictures!)
I'm like ya'll in that discretion is of utmost concern to me, and that is also one of my concerns in terms of going to clubs. It just seems to me that there are far too many peep show enthusiast at clubs for me to be comfortable with the idea. It does take a lot more creative energy and time to get to know people and to gain their confidence if you don't send pictures. What I have found works best is to exchange cell phone numbers and have a conversation with people. Then, as Mr. Alura said, arrange a dinner meeting, or even coffee at Starbucks-type of place on Sunday AM. Personally, I prefer the short and sweet initial meetings. Then, if either of us aren't interested, we have the perfect excuse to leave. If interested, Starbucks doesn't run you out after 45 mintues and you can sit there and chat without the interruption of waiters, etc. wrnakedru has recommended lunch meetings in the past, and that is a good idea, too, as people generally have finite times to visit. You can generally get a good fix on someone in a short period of time, and then, after that, you may want to have more telephone chat (or IM) to firm things up.

Pictures are not the be-all, end-all. I recall once when I first started the internet thing...I met a couple that had a really striking picture posted. Nothing excessively revealing, but enough to make one believe they were an extremely nice looking couple. In reality...literally, I was stunned at their real appearance and could not wait to escape. Pictures can be worth a thousand words...fiction or non-fiction.

So...you were wondering about your ad? Why not post a link to it and let others look at it and give their opinions on how it might be spruced up? Others have done that before with positive results, I think. What we think we are writing may not come across when read by others.

- EBF

[realcouple30]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to post your thoughts They are a great help! We also read the posts links provided by you stoutgatte, thank you!

We have been lurking here for a few months, reading the forums and all and we have been so pleasantly suprised by how nice everyone is. I think this is the first forum I have ever been in where we haven't seen any flaming, lol!

We so appreciate everyones' time in replying

We totally understand others wanting to see who they are talking to. And we also totally understand others not wanting to pursue a couple if they don't know if they are real, what they look like etc.

We were re-reading our post and we feel that we didn't do a good job of explaining what we are willing to do to assure others of our sincerity. We feel that cam to cam can't lie and we are fine with chatting that way, we are happy to meet face to face, talk on the phone, voice chat and do almost anything except send out pictures to what could be picture collectors.
If we have only known someone for either a few minutes of chat, or from a few brief emails..we just feel that we don't have enough security to surrender our identities and our pictures-even G rated. I understand why some (maybe most) are left scratching their heads about why G rated pictures are such a big deal to us,some are fine with sending pictures out, which is great. We just aren't.

We have pictures up on our profile, but we removed our faces from them. We know its really hard to understand, but its just not something we are comfortable with at the initial stage. I guess when we feel something is demanded of us, we naturally back up a bit. We expect others to ask for our pictures, that doesn't bother us at all!. Its when its demanded so quick after brief emails. Whenever someone has asked for pictures, we absolutely understand. We would only want to meet others that we are attracted to also. We always try to be honest about our concerns and freely talk about the other ways they can be ensured that we are real and that we are a couple they might be interested in. We want to assure the other couple that we are nice, attractive, sane..lol.

I guess in a way, we feel that the type of couples we are looking for are those who are sensative enough to appreciate concerns, even if they don't have those same concerns. But while protecting ourselves, we think we are losing some great times with great people

Maybe because of our concerns this lifestyle cannot be for us, we hope not. We aren't interested in playing games with others feelings, we just want to protect ourselves.

thanks again for everyone that is writing here. Honesty is greatly appreciated

Oh, and thanks for not making us wear the bunny suits:P

J+S
P.S. in AFF and Swinglifestyle, our profile IDs are realcouple30, same as here

[TNT]

Hi realcouple30, Welcome to the board.

We have been following this thread today and wanted to point out some of our observations.

First off...your profile...very well written...you do explain what you are a looking for and what you expect of others. However, we would suggest maybe changing the picture to something a little more casual. Instead of having the whole head blocked out, maybe some dark glasses and a hat in a more casual setting...bedroom, living room..or even out doors. It is possible to have very nice pictures without actually showing the face for identification.

We would also like to ask you...what is the difference in actually showing your face on web-cam and not sending out a G-rated pic? I guess that pics are a pet peeve of mine in that I always hear couples state ...If you send one first then we will send ours. If everyone takes this attitude then no one will ever be sending out pics. Whether you do or don't that is totally up to you and you should never feel pressured to do something you are not comfortable with. Personally, we would never meet anyone without seeing a picture first...how would we know who we were suppose to be meeting if we had no idea what they looked like? Web-caming is a good alternative to sending pictures, but like you said not everyone has a web-cam.

As far as clubs and raids...well, any owner worth his/her salt will have provisions in place to ensure the safety of their patrons...with a club that is well run and legal in all respects you have very little to worry about. If you have fears of being recognized by locals...try a club that is a few hours away where the likelihood of running into someone you know would be slim to none.

Something no one else has pointed out is that most of us have very limited time when it comes to meeting someone. I know for us we don't like spending a lot of time chatting and/or e-mailing back and forth and when we run into a couple that do our usual reply is thanks for your interest but we will be moving on. There are just to many other couples who are more accessible and easier to meet than those that want to spend months getting to know us through the computer.

None of this is to make light of your fears and concerns, just some observations. There is a place for everyone in this lifestyle, it just takes some longer than others to find it. I hope that you will find the majority of swingers are just as concerned about being outed as you are therefore making this a very tight-lipped community where discretion is usually a top priority, therefore displacing most of your fears.

Teresa

[JustAskJulie]

My initial thought is that you might be shooting yourself in the foot with a bit of a Catch-22.

On one hand you want to meet people to swing with but on the other hand you are so worried about the reprecussions that you won't/don't allow yourselves to be open enough to even allow people to get to know you.

Being so restrictive about yourselves and avoiding questions/answers and such will often make others feel that you aren't being for real and/or aren't serious so they will end up blowing you off for fear that continuing is just a waste of their time.

When it comes down to it, if you want things to happen you are going to have to take a chance or three or four to let it happen. That doesn't mean you have to send out pics or post them on an ad, but I do think that if you aren't willing ot send out facial pics AT ALL that you are going to seriously limit yourselves on meeting anyone that you will find compatible. I think that if you aren't going to do pics then you have to be more open in other ways.

The only thing you can really do is to be as open as possible in your ads. Be honest and explain that you have careers that don't allow you to be at all open or to send out facial pics until you konw you can trust someone,etc. But then... when will you KNOW you can trust someone? How long do you expect people to be patient? And why shouldn't they wonder if you are up to something and just playing games or trying to trap them?

[Spoomonkey]

Hi RealCouple!

As it turns out, you are about 7 miles away from Spoomonkey Ranch...

Of course, try to picture a VERY small ranch

The personals have been seriously frustrating for us as well. We don't post pics at all. We are clubbers, but do try the internet from time to time.

I will say that one of the things that helps us is that we try to be liberal about meeting for a "vanilla" date with couples we are interested in. That gives you a very good idea of compatability rather quickly - and it is very non-threatening...

What could be less threatening than having dinner at Logan's and throwing peanuts like a bunch of high school kids?

Anyway - just wanted to encourage you. Real people are out here - even outside of the 270 loop!

Spoomonkey

[realcouple30]

Hi all

Thanks so much for all the great advice we have already changed some of the things we do.-We took some pictures and put them in our profiles..not face pictures..but less um..formal pictures and we had alot of fun doing it!

We also talked over many of the comments everyone made and are looking around for parties that may be in our area.

Hey Spoonmonkey, how cool is that! We would love to meet you so we could all throw things at each other, lol!

[flutterbudget]

When my husband and I first started swinging a few months ago, we joined a few yahoo groups for BBW Swingers and have met a lot of nice people. They usually have meet and greets, mostly before a party, and you can see who will be partying ahead of time. At our first and only party so far, we mostly just observed and were with each other. We've met a lot of people through the groups, more so than through our ad. We were worried about posting face shots on our ad as I am a teacher, but I figured if anyone recognized me, they were there too!

Good luck.

Flutter