Ecstasy?

[TeamSoBe]

I'm curious to see what peoples' opinions here are on ecstasy use. I see that a lot of people are very particular about their swinging partners being completely drug free, including even pot. They don't mind getting hammered silly drunk in order to get into the mood though.

Other people just avoid people that do harder drugs or anything that involves needles. I know for certain that there are a lot of rollers out there that are discovering swinging because of situations that ecstasy originally led them into.

I understand that a lot of people are simply opposed to drugs of any kind and as long as that works for them that's fine with me. Still, I'm having trouble figuring out how all of swinging culture can universally say 'no way' about such a popular drug that just naturally leads 'normal' people into having swinging experiences. I made this a poll so that people can vote without leaving a record of exactly who they are.

[Flori_DAMAN]

I personally think that our nation is screwed up with it's drug enforcement laws. So many people are incarcerated for non-violent crimes just because they seek to have a chemical or herb to stimulate feeling good. Alcohol is far worse than pot IMHO but the cops take a person to jail for having a joint then go home and have a beer. Also, personally I do not indulge in alcohol, pot, or any other drug except caffiene.

I have been involved in the lifestyle for around 20 years and pot has always been a big issue for clubs. They prohibit it or any other drug. Our lifestyle is already on the fringe of what our society considers legal in such matters as pay for sex at clubs, alcohol being served, boobies on display without a booby display license etc.

Why associate us with a drug like ecstasy? It is a schedule 1 narcotic (if I remember right), right up there with crack cocaine, meaning it is a felony to posess, it has no medicinal value and your ass is grass if you get caught with it.
I have also done a bit of research on the effects of the drug and it is no mild mood elevator. The shit kills people every day. Just do a search on your puter and you may have some eye opening news waiting for you on the adverse medical effects of ecstasy.

I never judge people for there indulgence in alcohol, pot, heroin, ecstasy or any other drug but I do get concerned when I see this society (meaning the swinging society), being associated with involvement with illegal activity of any sort. It just plain ain't a good subject in my humble opinion. John.

[ciscosv]

Ecstasy is a horrible drug. It can kill you. I had smoked pot on occasion but dont make it a regular habit. I drink but dont drive. I have had friends in the past that got really messed up on drugs. The biggie was crank. I value my wife, life, family, friends, job and health. Drugs take those things away from people and they dont even realize it because of the cloud they live in. I have seen it too much. An orgasm is better than any high I know.

[Close Encounters]

Swinging is it's own high. Why would you want to dull it with any drug?

[TeamSoBe]

I'm not encouraging drug use, I was just curious. I am starting to realize that the classic 'swinger' culture is a lot more conservative than I ever realized. The ecstasy thing is just one more thing that makes me realize how conservative most swingers are. My impression of the swinger set was always that swingers are an extreme sort that love to party and who have hedonistic tendencies across the board. That doesn't really seem to be true.

Ecstasy has become an extremely mainstream thing in many social circles, just like cocaine in the 80's and acid & pot before that. Swingers' attitudes toward it seem to be a lot more in line with conservative American thinking than with the party set.

My first clue about the conservative nature of the swinger community was when I realized that most swingers think that it's great for every woman to be bisexual but male bisexuality seems to still be completely taboo. I was honestly shocked to discover such conservative thinking on sexuality among a group of people that pride themselves on their sexually-liberated attitudes.

Judging from the parties in my area, I'm assuming that there are many different swinger subcultures, based on the social cultural identities that people have outside of swinging circles. In my area there are a lot of young dance club raver types in the swinger community, and naturally a good deal of ecstasy use. I was just curious what the reaction would be outside of that subculture.

[OhioCouple]

I have passed this topic up several times.

I think I will again for now.

Lori ~ Have you voted for Julie today?

[OhioCouple]

Okay all, I am going on my soapbox again. This topic and it's responses had me up half the night.

On April 22nd of this year my brother passed away. Not a direct result of his 24 year military career, although I believe that it contributed to it as he got all of the drugs that killed him while over seas where they are readily available on the street or in stores to any passerby. No prescription needed.

The autopsy report from the coroner stated that he died of heart failure. (If you have ever been military, this is a keep it clean sorta thing..no blemishes).

He was only home on military leave to bury his first born grandchild. Within 24 hours he was dead.

I don't understand people that feel the need to use drugs to enhance their lives or dull their pain emotionally.

I am by no means a saint, I dabbled with pot a couple of times years ago...but couldn't stand the stuff...the smell alone was enuf to make me cringe...still is. I smoke, another drug in itself, but I go outside to do it and do not expose others to it. When I drink, I don't drive...simple as that.

What I do feel tho is that if anyone feels the need to "use" a drug of any kind in order to gain the courage to face "ANY" situation in their lives, something is VERY VERY WRONG!

Our country lost a very well respected, honored and talented fighter pilot due to the usage of some easily attainable drugs.

Lori ~ In honor of my brother....Major C.C.D. USMC

[TeamSoBe]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Ohio. I've actually had a few friends pass on or nearly pass on because of drug problems. That's exactly why I say that I'm not trying to endorse drug use and I'm not trying to convince anybody to do anything that they don't already do.

Lumping all drugs together isn't very productive though. Speedballs of smack and coke will stop your heart like a switch. GHB can drop you on the ground and paralyze your diaphragm so that you suffocate. Some drugs have much more acceptable risk levels though, and for a lot of people ecstasy is in that category.

Ecstasy can be very dangerous but the biggest dangers are social, not medical. Ecstasy makes you extremely open-minded and loving and accepting, and it can make you drop your guard around strangers when you shouldn't and it can make you make overly optimistic character judgements about people that you have just met. From somebody that's both medically trained and a party animal, I can tell you that those are the biggest dangers with ecstasy. The danger of spontaneously dropping dead while rolling is up there with the risk of accidentally electrocuting yourself with a household appliance while stoned. Certainly possible, doesn't happen often enough to matter to anybody. The social dangers from making extremely poor character judgements are the sort of thing that swinging rollers should be educated about, rather than standard canned anti-drug propaganda.

The thing that still amazes me though, is that alcohol is easily the most dangerous drug out there but swingers love it. It kills orders of magnitude more people on a daily basis than any illegal drug. It ruins peoples' lives. It also causes people to make very poor social decisions. It causes memory loss, liver damage, and all kinds of other long and short term health problems, and it's highly addictive. Regardless of all of that, swinging culture seems to fully embrace booze. Booze for recreation, booze to loosen up, booze to destroy inhibitions, booze as a way to rationalize the crazy group sex, keep the booze flowing. It's a bizarre double-standard that just doesn't make much sense to me. It's okay to be sloppy drunk, but one hit on a joint or one happy pill is completely taboo.

Swingers draw the line based on what's legal and what isn't, which is kind of ironic since swinging itself is illegal as adultery in many places. Alcohol and Viagra are perfectly acceptable in swinger circles because they are legal. Pot and ecstasy are not because they are illegal. This is very conservative thinking, right up there with "No bi men need apply, we don't like queers." It's that conservative outlook that really surprises me.

My mental metaphor for swingers used to be an image of a bunch of crazy rebel hedonistic party animals at a Bacchanalian toga party. Since becoming more involved my mental image is shifting closer to maybe a republican campaign fund-raiser where all of the boozed-up loyal supporters are wearing sexy lingerie under their clothes and waiting until they are hammered enough to get naked.

[Flori_DAMAN]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe:
<strong> Since becoming more involved my mental image is shifting closer to maybe a republican campaign fund-raiser where all of the boozed-up loyal supporters are wearing sexy lingerie under their clothes and waiting until they are hammered enough to get naked.

Actually while most swinging parties have booze available drunkeness is not well tolerated. I can only compare any social setting to it. Even democrats (or other categories of liberals), embrace a low tolerance toward inebriation. Your presumptions and perceptions seem to be very limited in focus.

Have you ever considered that there are both conservative and liberal swingers? Conservatives are not a bunch of drunks as you seem to imply. You seem to be the one lumping all sorts of groups of people together, whether it be sexual, political, or other types of orientation.

I guess the best way to get you to grasp the concept is this. Swingers are a cross-section of our general population. I hope this clears it up for ya. John.

[Flori_DAMAN]

Ohio Couple,

I extend my deepest condolences toward you in this time of grief. I also commend you for the courage you demonstrate by speaking about this deeply personal subject. In some way a huge loss may result in saving someone else by doing this. Thank you, John.

[TeamSoBe]

Oh I'm not knocking on anybody, I'm just surprised. I happen to be a republican personally, so you're missing my point on that part. I just never realized that swinging culture would be so conservative.

I have definitely not seen much evidence of swingers frowing on binge drinking though. I really sort of get the impression that without alcohol there would be no such thing as swinging in the first place. Maybe we're just meeting the wrong people.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by michigancouple:
Ohio Couple,

I extend my deepest condolences toward you in this time of grief. I also commend you for the courage you demonstrate by speaking about this deeply personal subject. In some way a huge loss may result in saving someone else by doing this. Thank you, John.

John,

Thank you.

Lori

[OhioCouple]

TeamSoBe,

To catorgaize (sp) swingers as hedonistic party animals or as politically affiliated with a specific party...doesn't make sense in my opinion.

Swingers are your average everyday people from all walks of life. We walk, talk, and think just like the non-swingers do, the only difference is that we induldge in sharing sexual experiences with others who are not your chosen mate. This doesn't take away from the fact that we have morals and beliefs and our own ideals that we live by daily.

That said, I do understand the point of the double standard, as much as I do not care to be around those that have smoked pot, I am sure the same people who do not smoke feel that way about me. But to counter that.... And I speak only for the United States, you must be of a "legal" age to purchase or consume either alcohol or nicotine. Those guidelines are set with the assupmtion that you are mature enough to use them responsibly. I have read Marijuana has been proven in test studies that it eases the pain of cancer patients...so I do question the fact that it has not been made legal.

Granted some people use alcohol or nicotine to reduce/relieve or loosen up pain or tension, but they are legal and you are expected to use them responsibly. Ecstacy on the other hand offers no benefical medicinal benefits. Chances are that someone who has taken the drug will probably toss back a few vodka and tonics, maybe even follow it with a few shots of tequila to top it off. They have now lost all of their inhibitions. And lets say perhaps they have high blood pressure for which they are on medication for, and last week they had a kidney infection or something and are on anti-biotics and they smoke. Now 5 drugs are introduced into their system. All of this within a relatively short period of time. It is just a breeding ground for disaster.

Lori~Geez I need a summer job....VOTE FOR JULIE! <img border="0" alt="[Blowjob]" title="" src="graemlins/bj.gif" />

<small>[ 07-31-2002, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: OhioCouple ]</small>

[CanadianCouple]

Lori --

I'm just reading through new posts before heading to bed, and I saw yours concerning your brother's death. I'm truly sorry to hear of your loss. Family is so important to us, and we're so sorry when someone else loses one of theirs.

I'm sure you were a wonderful sister for him. May God bless you and your family.

Dan

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple:
Lori --

I'm just reading through new posts before heading to bed, and I saw yours concerning your brother's death. I'm truly sorry to hear of your loss. Family is so important to us, and we're so sorry when someone else loses one of theirs.

I'm sure you were a wonderful sister for him. May God bless you and your family.
Dan

CanadianCouple,

Thank you for your kindness. I did not post this in search for any sympathetic response, I posted because sometimes people who are normally rational and sane make insane decisions all in the name of instantaneous relief of emotional and or physical tension. For some it is alcohol and or drugs, others a ciggarette will suffice or a combination of all of the above in the worst scenario.

Perhaps, (and this does not involve my brother's case), if people feel the need to utilize a drug in order to swing they aren't ready to.