Helping wife get past her past trauma

[Rett]

Frenchie,

Well, you're finally relating a little more than you had previously and just from your other posts almost 100 % had considered you should take steps to reconcile the problems you created with your wife. Now, with this last reply you seem completely out of line and give more information as to how you are completely obsessed with your fantasies. What else has not been said in your postings.

I wish we could here your wife's version of this. I sympathized with her before but know I understand even more what she must be going through. It doesn't sound at all like she has been leading you on or tempting you and then refusing. It's more like you have such a strong obsession in you that it is the only thing in life that matters and you are so forceful you give her no room to breath. Aren't your prioities more than a little screwed up. You're putting your wife through hell.

And what happened to your attitude that you would take any advice given to you? At first you said she was loving , sexy, passionate and everything you desired in life . Now you are revealing your true personality.

I can only pray that your wife survives this ordeal.

[Rett]

Frenchie,

I just would like you ask you a one question.

Has there been any violence involved in your relations now or in the past? It seems with your obsession and forceful manner that it might push you to extremes. I pray not.

I would hope you at least try to staighten out your life as it sounds like you are ruining other lives in the process.

[passion8]

Frenchie - I really hope you are just having your own bit of fun with the board playing your version of "Devils advocate".

[frenchie]

When I say thanks for the replies I do mean it, and I am taking everyones thoughts, comments and sugjestions to heart.

I do love my wife more then the need to swing, but that need is still there, aching to be lived out.

Having read so many posts on the "How To" perswade one half of the couple to give this a try, I honestly hoped there would be some great advise on how to help my wife ease into this, to help her get over her feelings that doing this together is nothing to feel guilty about.

She is an incredible woman and I love her, but yet having seen and experienced a little bit with her, who wouldn't want to experience more, especially knowing how sexual she is with me and of course wittnessing the MFM.

Most of the replies are saying to leave it alone, to not encourage it when she brings it up, that not everybody is cut out for this, and I guess most replies are true, that perhaps I have put alot of stress on her causeing her to give in. Even with the things I didn't know I was doing was pressuring her.

While yes I still do desire my fantacies, and have had alot of come to life already, and should we ever do anything again it has to be her choice, her wants, not just to please me. I do think that's where I've been most confused. Confused by my wants and getting them at any cost where I've allowed her to put my own needs above her own and not giving back as much as I've been taking.
I've been very gready and I need to redirect my life away from swinging and concentrate more on my wife.

I want to close this post with thanking you all and I sincerely hope in my frustration I didn't appear to harsh on my wife. I've been so confused lately and it's helped alot to have the different opinions to help give me the clarity I needed, or the swift kick in the @ss to wake me up to the mess I created and what's most important to me. My wife.

F.

[wrnakedru]

Your presentation of this as an 'itsy' problem during the introduction you gave has set me to wondering.

Did you perhaps think, that since this is a board for the purpose of [primarily] swinging related issues, that if you presented your "itsy" problem - what you were going to receive back from the members of the board was a unilateral agreement as to 'poor little you'? Was your self admitted seeking of advice only seeking that advice that would, in essence, bring your wife around to your point of view? Are you not hearing or simply rejecting out of hand any advice that does not support your efforts?

Your responses throughout the thread have seemed to indicate little else than a rejection on your part. You have presented ongoing, continual, and escalating examples of what you seem to feel are those that validate your point of view. These additional pieces of information have proved instead to alienate those who may have had some sense of empathy for your position.

So I am wondering - exactly what do you want to have happen? Not just here on the message board as a response to your words but in your relationship with your wife and in your life? What do you want it to be ? If continuing in the marriage only appeals to you if your wife can somehow magically come around to your point of view, without any baggage that interfers with her being your idea of a perfect mate - - - then you need to pack up and get out now. Because she can only be who she is - and all that she is. If that is 'inconvenient' to the point of being too much for you to deal with, so be it.

And perhaps you can only be who you are - - and all that you are. And if that definition has become so highly contingent upon your involvement or active participation in the lifestyle, your present life situation is obviously not the ideal one for you and it certainly is not ideal for swinging.

Don't drag this out by trying to make her something she cannot be, or by you trying to be something you have no desire to be. Do the right thing for both of you and put a stop to the pain now.

Life isn't all about having your cake and eating it too. Life is about recognizing what is important to you and making the decisions that support that.

Be a grown up here. Make your choice, make your decision, and then live it.

Don't sit in your corner banging your spoon against your plate, crying "it's not fair."

In the final analysis, we are all where we CHOOSE to be. Make your choice.

[wrnakedru]

Frenchie -

My last post was obviously being written at the same time as the one just written by you.

I stand by the validity of my words.

I am glad to see the necessity of making a choice had finally gotten through to you.

I hope that the life lived from this point forward will support the choice.

wrnakedru

[Amy and Mike]

Hi, this Amy.
I am so angry after reading this that I have to comment. Frenchy, the only advice you're looking for is advice on how to make your wife do what you want. You have no real interest in anything anyone is trying to tell you. Did you think that if you came to ask swingers for advice that they would automatically think that your wife should go along with what you want? Not only that but they would offer you advice on how to get her to swing with you?

I can hardly believe you are so selfish. Every single person here is trying to tell you that you are hurting her buy treating her this way. If my hubby had ever shown such a complete lack of regard for my feelings as you obviously have for your wife's I would be as upset as your wife too! It's not swinging thats upsetting your wife, its you! So your sex life isnt as good as it was a while ago and you wonder why, even blaming her for it? Well take a look in the mirror.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by frenchie
When I say thanks for the replies I do mean it, and I am taking everyones thoughts, comments and sugjestions to heart.

I do love my wife more then the need to swing, but that need is still there, aching to be lived out.

Having read so many posts on the "How To" perswade one half of the couple to give this a try, I honestly hoped there would be some great advise on how to help my wife ease into this, to help her get over her feelings that doing this together is nothing to feel guilty about.

This shall be my last posting on this topic.

Frenchie,

You have so contradicted yourself throughout your postings that I have a hard time even believing that this is an actual event occuring in your earthly life. If on happen-chance that it is, I'll give you the benefit of my ever-increasing doubt.

I challenge you to find one single posting by a regular member of this board that talks of how to "perswade" their partner into swinging. Many have asked how to introduce the idea, not persuade them. On the flip side, we have had several posts regarding their partners trying to coerce them into swinging and they came here to learn more about it, in effort to please the other half. End result, most decided it was not for them, for whatever reason. Which is cool. Swinging is not for everyone, in fact it is only for a small percentage.

Consider yourself fortunate, Frenchie, for living out your fantasy once, consider yourself less than fortunate for ultimately losing your wife over your selfish desires.

I do + I do = WE DO

I do + You won't = I

Do the math...

[b_and_sc]

I think Mr. & Mrs. Naughty said it perfectly...


she tried it cause she loves you and it obviously wasn't for her

now stop pushing (and that includes passive aggressive tactics)cause you love her


b

[LarrySmith]

Frenchie,
I may take a little flame for this, but I'm going to sympathize with you on this, a little bit.
A woman who respects the feelings of her man does not play games with him. She doesn't go out of her way to place challenges in his path, just to test his reactions. She doesn't bait a hook so that she can enjoy blasting him for taking the bait. When she makes sacrifices, she makes them for the good of BOTH of them. She doesn't set herself up to be hurt, so that she can wear the badge of martyr. She should have given you a flat out, straight forward, no quibbling , "NO". Her weakness of character caused both of you a lot of pain. Take the cliche, a woman asks her man if this outfit makes her look fat. If the man says no, she calls him a liar cause she can see it for herself. If he says "Baby, you look fabulous to me no matter what", then she says he tried to dodge the question which means he thinks she's fat. He can't win.


However...

My impression from your posts it that you have given her the impression that you want to swing for your own pleasure, to cut a slice with someone other than her, to cheat with her knowledge, in front of her. You say you're a bit of a handyman. Suppose she hired an electrition to change the batteries in the smoke detectors, because "SHE WANTS IT THAT WAY".
When you two are watching a movie, and a spicy scene comes on, does she think that you are wishing you were there with the characters on screen, or does she think that it will fuel the fire you have for her? Do you reach over and cop a feel and start whispering naughty suggestions in her ear about how hot you are for her, or do you start commenting on how hot the girl on the screen is? The common thread from posts of the active lifestylers on this board is that it is all about their mutual giving of mutual pleasure to each other. When is is for one partner's pleasure only, it falls like a house built on sand. If you really want her to try again, you will have to show her that it is her pleasure and your mutual pleasure that you want to enhance. If she has the slightest nagging feeling that is just to 'get your rocks off', she will be resistant, hurt, resentful, angry, etc.


My advice is for BOTH of you to read, TOGETHER, "the care and feeding of husbands". The main theme is that the woman is the boss, because that is the way biology made us, period. As the boss, she has obilgations as to how she takes care of her man, which DIRECTLY results in how he takes care of her (cause and effect, positive feedback loops, etc.). Women have an awsome power over men, and should use it to the advantage of the marriage, in a responsible manner. Men need this from their women. That's why men marry women, and not other men.

The subtle theme of the book is what kind of man he should be to deserve the effort. Hopefully you will find it.

[Buck]

Frenchie, I've read and re-read your original post and all the replies you've gotten including my earlier one. Some of us have chastised you for pushing your wife and one or two have seemed to side with you on the issue. From reading your posts and theirs it has reinforced my feeling that maybe you and your wife should get some counseling, not just to work through this immediate issue, but to get a clearer understanding of each other. A really good counselor can do that and help you two to become closer and more aware of the driving forces behind your and your spouse's behavior. I recommend that you spend a few sessions with a counselor and see how it goes. Again, not only to talk about this issue, but many others you may have. You obviously love your wife deeply and she may not understand how deep those feelings are and also why you may want to share her with others in a sexual way. Yes, part of swinging would be for your pleasure but I'll bet a lot of it has to do with you being turned on by the thoughts of her being pleasured. Just my thoughts again.

[Tarnished Halo]

I am one of those wives whose husband "really wanted" to become a swinger. I thought that you might be interested in my point of view. As I am now in counseling, I have discovered that I am a "pleaser". I like to please people, it makes them happy, it makes me happy making them happy, and on and on and on. I think you get the picture. The emotions that I had were overwhelming, and I should have had the strength to tell him an outright NO....I am NOT interested, this isn't something that we should be doing. It wasn't that I was leading him on, or anything like that, I just wanted to give him what he said he wanted that would make him happy, and darned near destroyed myself in the bargain. Our marriage nearly came to an end over this, and some of the things we said to one another in anger will echo endlessly. I have to struggle to try to keep a balance in my life, knowing that this is still something that he wants to do, and knowing that at this point, this is something that I cannot do.

Maybe you should really step back, try not to make any harsh judgments, as both you and she have obviously had some heated exchanges, and consider where you are, as opposed to where it is that you thought, or hoped to be. Doesn't sound like you are anywhere near that. Some professional assistance might be what is wanted and needed to give you both the tools to help rebuild, or restructure your relationship.
You may have irreversably done damage to your marriage, and I urge you to consider counseling both for you, your wife, and your marriage.
By the way...the counselor that I am seeing is also a sex therapist (lucky me, I guess). So far, she is hesitant to endorse the "hobby", for those who were wondering.
Tarnished Halo

[SoCal-JnL]

NO....I am NOT interested, this isn't something that we should be doing. It wasn't that I was leading him on, or anything like that, I just wanted to give him what he said he wanted that would make him happy, and darned near destroyed myself in the bargain. Our marriage nearly came to an end over this,

I have always been curious about the people that post here that are so dead set against the lifestyle. Why are you here?

Do you check this board out of morbid curiosity? Or are you afraid to admit that you are attracted to the lifestyle?

By the way...the counselor that I am seeing is also a sex therapist (lucky me, I guess). So far, she is hesitant to endorse the "hobby", for those who were wondering.

I don't understand the need for this comment. Not sure who you are trying to convince here.

I agree with the advice you have given, if the marriage is to be saved, he definitely needs to re-evaluate his priorities.

It just baffles me that you would frequent a swingers message board unless you were looking for converts.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[OhioCouple]

Tarnished Halo. Your last posting gives insight that many cannot give as they haven't been on both sides of the coin. What an excellent posting, and much food for thought.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by SoCal-JnL
I have always been curious about the people that post here that are so dead set against the lifestyle. Why are you here?

Everyone is welcome to post here. Tarnished Halo has offered some very interesting insight on many occasions and I do hope that she continues to post in the areas of interest to her and/or any questions she has in the future. This is an informational board, the primary focus is swinging, and this includes those that are active, used to be active, seeking information, thinking about it, or opposed to it. As long as all are cordial to those that post... they are all welcome.

I know that I have learned a bundle from each and every one of all of them.

Mrs. O