Wife not comfortable with pre-planning - how do I make it easier for her?

[fun4t&c]

Well, we're a happy couple who have been together for 15 years. Like so many others, our libedos are driven at different rates. We both take very good care of ourselves and get hit on often when we go out. Because she looks sexy, I tend to think of her that way, much more than she really is. So, I've stumbled and missed the mark a few times over the past couple years while trying to open her up and get her to enjoy her sexual powers a little more.

Unfortunately, due to her past, she mistook my intentions. She automatically felt like getting wild and partying naked with others would be degrading to her. I saw it just the opposite way. I imagined it as her being the sexual Goddess, like Cleopatra, enjoying all the additional adventure of being the center of attention. We've now gotten our communication accurized, so that's no longer a problem. Thank God. She means everything to me.

Because she has a really fun wild side that only comes out on short notice, it's difficult to plan anything sexual with her. It MUST be spontaneous for her and she has very narrow preferences. She only likes people who are also very physically attractive and not socially crude. She's a knockout and I just wanna see her play. I don't even care if I do anything. I just really like the idea of watching her role play as a slut for a night, because in reality, she's a good, wholesome woman, even if she LOOKS like a hot porn star.

Since she clams up if she feels anything is pre-planned, I'm not sure how to get her into a situation that would be conducive to letting her exercise her inner slut, so to speak. I want it to be fun for her. I want her to have a blast and become the one asking ME to take her to do it again. We've gone to a couple of wild clubs and a clothing-optional resort for one night. We had fun, but she didn't feel like playing with anyone. Maybe we just hit off nights. The crowds at those places were less physically fit and attractive than typical club crowds.

Ladies, Is there anything I should/can do to help her feel good about playing with, or in front of other people, other than being 100% supportive and respectful, like I've been? It's a huge turn-on for me, but I want it to be great for HER. It's no good if she isn't genuinely getting something SHE wants. I want her to open up and completely get off! I know there are scenarios that would blow her away and attract her to playing, but I have to find the right group of people for her to feel attracted. If any of you are real lookers, or know someone who would help me sink the hook with her, I'd be deeply appreictive. I can share pics if we can find a good fit. We go to Vegas to party a couple times each year.

Thanks!

[IvoryTowers]

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

Because she looks sexy, I tend to think of her that way, much more than she really is. So, I've stumbled and missed the mark a few times over the past couple years while trying to open her up and get her to enjoy her sexual powers a little more....

She automatically felt like getting wild and partying naked with others would be degrading to her. I saw it just the opposite way. I imagined it as her being the sexual Goddess, like Cleopatra, enjoying all the additional adventure of being the center of attention...

She's a knockout and I just wanna see her play. I don't even care if I do anything. I just really like the idea of watching her role play as a slut...

Since she clams up if she feels anything is pre-planned, I'm not sure how to get her into a situation that would be conducive to letting her exercise her inner slut, so to speak...

I know there are scenarios that would blow her away and attract her to playing, but I have to find the right group of people for her to feel attracted. If any of you are real lookers, or know someone who would help me sink the hook with her, I'd be deeply appreictive.

Sorry, but when I look at the quotes above, I don't believe this really is all about her. Yes, you are happy just watching, but you start out saying that she isn't as sexual as she looks (whatever that means). You go on to saying she finds the idea of lots of people degrading and while she's gone along with some of your ideas she's rejected anything pre-planned.

In other words, your convinced that if you just get her into a 'spontaneous' setting with incredibly hot and yet respectful/polite/well spoken people who all want to play with her, she'll give in and have a wild night. Well, d'uh! I think just about anyone would have an orgy under those circumstances but it ain't gonna happen. And it ain't about her. It's about you getting to see your wife act the way you want her to act.

Furthermore, it seems that you assume (or hope) that if this magical night happens, she'll be the one asking to do it again and again. Honestly, she'd probably see it as a magical one time experience and NOT want to repeat it.

Sorry to be harsh, but I think you need a dose of reality. If swinging is really important to you, then you need to have a serious talk (or many serious talks) with your wife and find out what she's really willing to do. Maybe the two of you can go to clubs and watch pretty people, then have hot sex on your own. Maybe more.

But if, as you say, your wife is everything to you, the one thing you should not be doing is assuming you know what's best for her, what's 'really' in her mind, and thus trying to find the perfect hot couple or scene that will make YOUR fantasy come true while pretending that you are just freeing her inner slut.

[Willing29]

How about asking her outright and talking about the fantacies both of you might have. Key here is to TALK, TALK, TALK!!!

[dnmnms]

Because she has a really fun wild side that only comes out on short notice, it's difficult to plan anything sexual with her. It MUST be spontaneous for her and she has very narrow preferences. She only likes people who are also very physically attractive and not socially crude. She's a knockout and I just wanna see her play. I don't even care if I do anything. I just really like the idea of watching her role play as a slut for a night, because in reality, she's a good, wholesome woman, even if she LOOKS like a hot porn star.

The crowds at those places were less physically fit and attractive than typical club crowds.

I know we each have our own preferences and please understand that I am NOT being crude in what I am trying to say....But comments like this really make us "non porn star normal people who are also good wholesome people, who look good but are not Barbies" feel a little intimidated.
Speaking as female here who is somewhat average in the looks dept, has had 3 kids and whose body could never make it into a porn movie anymore.

Not bashing you, just when we "normal" ladies are reminded of our flaws it can hurt a little. I am sure your wife is all you wrote and probably then some. I am sure you will locate those in the LS that have the same thoughts and feelings as you 2 do....They are definantly those out there who will only play with model material. I wish you luck in whatever your searching for.

Melody

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowers

Sorry, but when I look at the quotes above, I don't believe this really is all about her. Yes, you are happy just watching, but you start out saying that she isn't as sexual as she looks (whatever that means). You go on to saying she finds the idea of lots of people degrading and while she's gone along with some of your ideas she's rejected anything pre-planned.

In other words, your convinced that if you just get her into a 'spontaneous' setting with incredibly hot and yet respectful/polite/well spoken people who all want to play with her, she'll give in and have a wild night. Well, d'uh! I think just about anyone would have an orgy under those circumstances but it ain't gonna happen. And it ain't about her. It's about you getting to see your wife act the way you want her to act.

Furthermore, it seems that you assume (or hope) that if this magical night happens, she'll be the one asking to do it again and again. Honestly, she'd probably see it as a magical one time experience and NOT want to repeat it.

Sorry to be harsh, but I think you need a dose of reality. If swinging is really important to you, then you need to have a serious talk (or many serious talks) with your wife and find out what she's really willing to do. Maybe the two of you can go to clubs and watch pretty people, then have hot sex on your own. Maybe more.

But if, as you say, your wife is everything to you, the one thing you should not be doing is assuming you know what's best for her, what's 'really' in her mind, and thus trying to find the perfect hot couple or scene that will make YOUR fantasy come true while pretending that you are just freeing her inner slut.

Well, that IS pretty harsh, but I don't doubt any of its accuracy. It's hard to accept, but I guess that's why it hasn't worked out so far. Maybe I'm just not fully understanding how to reconcile our differences in what we'd like. Yes, I do feel like if the right situation happens, she'd want more. I'd heard that from a female who had gotten a taste at a nice resort and was dragging her husband back for more. He was just hanging back and watching her go. I guess I was hoping for that result because it would indicate my wife had found her sexual happy place, which seemed to be lagging, despite all my efforts. Maybe I just need to accept we're not the same, but it sure is difficult with the sex drive I have.

I don't want other women, I want her. Seeing her being wild just seems like such a cool thing. The bottom line is that I won't push her. I got excited about it before and we grew apart for a while, because she wasn't expressing herself to me. Since that's now fixed, she'll tell me what's attractive to her and what's not, rather than just trying to go along. When her preferences are not everything my horny mind invisions, I guess I just hope for more, like a little boy. We'll find our way. I do sincerely want her happy above all else and I appreciate everyone's input, even if it sounds harsh.

*Please don't take any offense by my discriptions of people. I was just trying to accurately discribe what she likes, because she does have a very narrow scope of attraction. Somehow, I guess I slipped through the cracks and she married me.

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowers

Yes, you are happy just watching, but you start out saying that she isn't as sexual as she looks (whatever that means).

By that, I meant she has a particularly sexual appearance, but doesn't think that way. She thinks more like Betty Crocker or June Cleaver.

Because of her looks, people assume she's a very sexual woman and treat her as such. Because she's very socially graceful, she's learned to play along with it, adding it to the rest of her charm and charisma.

All the while, inside, sex didn't really occur to her, until somebody else would bring it up.

[fun4t&c]

Ivory,

I've read through your response several times, now. I can tell you're spot on with your judgement and will be a valuable asset to have as an educator, if you are willing to continue helping.

I realize it's about what I want to see. I accept that.

It's also important for me to make clear the REASON I think I want to see her play like that. For me, growing up, sex was a very cool place to go. It was my happy place like to other. I had a couple of very talented girlfriends and had some very memorable sexual adventures at an early age. For me, sex was the best thing on earth. It's been the most satisfying aspect of my life, which has also been very rewarding, otherwise.

So, like a dumbass, I "ASS-U-ME-'d" that if I could bring the right sexual experience to HER, the SHE'd be able to enjoy it as much as I have. She's been the kind of person who acts like she could take sex, or leave it. A "whatever" perception of it. I felt like that was sad in a way, so I was wanting to share my happy place (sex) with her. I know that's jacked up, because she should know what she likes, but I've found that, in other things, I've been able to show her things she loves and would never have known about, other than me exposing her to, like Thai food, Yoga, etc.

I'm disappointed I couldn't break the code on my own, but I also appreciate the opportunity to network with people who can clue me in, because love and enthusiasm don't necessarily guarantee understanding, especially when a woman hasn't learned to express her real feelings until recently.

So, thanks for the genuine feedback! I wan't sure what quality to expect on a forum like this, but I'm very pleasantly surprised.

[VegasLee]

It sounds to me that she just might be in "Her Happy Place" but you are looking to set her up so that you can achieve your "Happy Place."

You state she does not want to be involved in anything "planned" yet you appear to be doing your best to plan this.

Rather then plan this out, sit with her, explain "your" fantasy and if she is up for it great, if not, live with it and stop trying to put her in a position that she does not desire to be in.

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

It sounds to me that she just might be in "Her Happy Place" but you are looking to set her up so that you can achieve your "Happy Place."

You state she does not want to be involved in anything "planned" yet you appear to be doing your best to plan this.

Rather then plan this out, sit with her, explain "your" fantasy and if she is up for it great, if not, live with it and stop trying to put her in a position that she does not desire to be in.

That makes perfect sense. What's caused me some difficulty is that nothing ever seems to happen. I guess I was thinking that if I figured out how it would have to come together to work out best, she could just enjoy it with the idea everything is spontaneous, like she so strongly prefers. I don't know. I really thought it would be easier than it's proven to be. I know other people who get wild and have fun like that. Maybe I was hoping for too much. I certainly don't want to screw up.

[TNT]

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

So, thanks for the genuine feedback! I wasn't sure what quality to expect on a forum like this, but I'm very pleasantly surprised.

to the Board.

You'll find there is a plethora of information here and the people, for the most part, are extremely helpful, understanding and straight forward in their advice.

For what it's worth, you are not the first husband who has came here with this question.

Swinging is NOT for everyone. In fact, it's not for most people. Unless it's something that you and your wife BOTH want to try, it will never work.

One can NEVER assume or guess when it comes to any aspect of swinging where our spouses/SOs are concerned....you must KNOW. The only way to know is talk and talk and talk some more.

It seems as if you have planted the seed in your wife's mind...until SHE decides it's something SHE wants to explore there is nothing else you can do. Pushing her and constantly nagging her about it will only breed resentment.

I encourage you to continue to read here on the board...it may never help you bring your wife into swinging but, it definitely won't hurt in learning about swinging and the importance of total, open, honest communication, and the ability to listen, within your marriage.


Teresa

[IvoryTowers]

I'm glad my tone didn't seem too harsh (just harsh enough?). You seem like a really nice guy who wants his wife to be happy. And there is a possibility that this would make her happy, especially if she had a very religious/repressive childhood.

But I also think that our society sells the idea that everyone is most happy when they are hyper sexual and that, in fact, people who are not hyper sexual must be unhappy or repressed.

Certainly sex is one of the great wonders of the world! But we all experience it in different ways and have different needs. Let me offer an analogy. I'm a vegan--I don't eat any animal products at all. I've run into people who think that I must be secretly craving meat and cheese, and that even if the reasons I gave up these things are good, ethical reasons, I must be unhappy because I can't experience the wonders of these foods.

And while I accept that for other people, meat and cheese are part of what make life worth living, to me they are not interesting or attractive at all. The smell of cheese makes me feel sick, and the thought of eating meat can cause a physical reaction. Yet I love to cook; I'm always trying out new foods, new recipes, new flavor combinations.

Maybe your wife is the equivalent, sexually. What she likes, sexually, she likes. The other stuff--she's not repressed or guilty or holding back out of morals. She just isn't interested.

But, as others have said, the only person who can answer that is your wife. And if the idea of her being sexually wild and the center of attention is your fantasy, I still think you can manage that quite successfully! If she loves you, surely she'd be willing to dress a bit sluttily and go to a club where you can watch the men drool over her as she dances. After a couple of hours, you can go home and give her whatever makes her the happiest. Voila! You are both satisfied!

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

She's a knockout and I just wanna see her play. I don't even care if I do anything. I just really like the idea of watching her role play as a slut for a night, because in reality, she's a good, wholesome woman, even if she LOOKS like a hot porn star.

She thinks more like Betty Crocker or June Cleaver.

Maybe your wife thinks that being a swinger means she has to be a "slut" or act like a "porn star." Since you've used this language here I'm guessing you've used those terms with her.

I don't think she is comfortable with those images, nor does she want to become what you describe.

She may also not want to be the "center of attention" as you envision, but would rather consider playing if in a more intimate setting with one other person/couple joining you where you are involved in play with her and the play doesn't place any one person on stage as the main attraction.

You can be a swinger without acting like a slut or porn star. Some women are more at home with swinging when they are being who they are by nature, which in your wife's case is a wholesome lady who is socially graceful, charming and charismatic. Sounds like a classy lady who wants to remain being thought of in this way. You may be pushing her to be something she wouldn't feel right about, i.e., being a slut.

If you, and she, can understand it is possible to be sexually expressive, enjoy sex with others, and be yourself, you'll probably have a better chance of coming to an agreement on giving swinging a try.

By chance, does alcohol play a role in her spontaneity? If so, it really isn't a good indicator of what she is ready to do when she is sober.

to the Swingers Board.

Please continue to join in the discussions and invite your wife to our corner of the world to share her thoughts, too.

LM

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowers

I'm glad my tone didn't seem too harsh (just harsh enough?). You seem like a really nice guy who wants his wife to be happy. And there is a possibility that this would make her happy, especially if she had a very religious/repressive childhood.

But I also think that our society sells the idea that everyone is most happy when they are hyper sexual and that, in fact, people who are not hyper sexual must be unhappy or repressed.

Certainly sex is one of the great wonders of the world! But we all experience it in different ways and have different needs. Let me offer an analogy. I'm a vegan--I don't eat any animal products at all. I've run into people who think that I must be secretly craving meat and cheese, and that even if the reasons I gave up these things are good, ethical reasons, I must be unhappy because I can't experience the wonders of these foods.

And while I accept that for other people, meat and cheese are part of what make life worth living, to me they are not interesting or attractive at all. The smell of cheese makes me feel sick, and the thought of eating meat can cause a physical reaction. Yet I love to cook; I'm always trying out new foods, new recipes, new flavor combinations.

Maybe your wife is the equivalent, sexually. What she likes, sexually, she likes. The other stuff--she's not repressed or guilty or holding back out of morals. She just isn't interested.

But, as others have said, the only person who can answer that is your wife. And if the idea of her being sexually wild and the center of attention is your fantasy, I still think you can manage that quite successfully! If she loves you, surely she'd be willing to dress a bit sluttily and go to a club where you can watch the men drool over her as she dances. After a couple of hours, you can go home and give her whatever makes her the happiest. Voila! You are both satisfied!

Well, she was suppressed due to religeous upbringing. We both were. She feels like she needs to be a good woman for me. I just want her to know that taking pleasure for herself IS good and that I like a woman who can be slutty in addition to the more important wholesome core values. Like so many now days, she's also had an early experience that negatively effects her view of sex, which I'd love to be able to help her with, but I find motivation to help isn't enough.

She's a great chick. She's gotten a wild hair before and startled me, big time. She definitely has it in her to cut loose. I think so much of it has to do with being on vacay, away from everyone we know and having the every day stresses taken away. When it's like that, she's a blast to play with. I just wish I could make her life like that all the time, even without the sex being a factor.

She HAS said she doesn't need to feel like the men are watching her. I imagine she gets enough of that all the time. I would like to enjoy seeing it for myself, along with her, because it would make me feel like she was sharing that aspect of her with me. Maybe that's wrong to want, but it seems attractive to me. I'm proud of her and I like to watch her work it.

I'm away right now, but when I get back home, I'll sit down with her and try to get her to talk about it some more to increase my understanding of what would please her. She usually doesn't seem to even know what she wants. I guess we'll see.

Thanks again, everybody.

[Cpl2share]

You said everythign that needs to be said in your initial post. Your libidos are different. You are not unique in this, in fact that is the norm. She may be very happy in her happy place. By the way it sounds, she is. You have told her what you would like. You can talk further, and I would suggest doing so in a non threatening manner. By that I mean explain what you want, but also make very sure that she understands two things: A) She is enough for you and she satisfies you; B) If she is happy with what you have you are satisfied with that and will not stray. Of course if you can not honestly say these things, drop it now and re-evaluate yourself. If you can honestly tell her thses things you need to do so. After that you need to leave it alone. tell her that this is what you would like to explore, and why, but that you will not bring the subject uo again. The ball is now in her court. If she is willing to discuss it she will. If not, you will continue on without swinging and love her as you always have. When she comes to terms with your request she will tell you Yes, No, or let's talk about this.

[cplnuswing]

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

What's caused me some difficulty is that nothing ever seems to happen.

I think the key word here is "nothing". The way we approach swinging is that all we want to happen is to have a fun time together. Sometimes that involves sex with others, most times not. It's difficult to find four people that all feel the chemistry and are compatible. If that is your true measure of something over nothing, then be prepared for a lot of nothings, especially when first starting out. If you are in it for the right reasons though, success will come easily since success just means you both had a fun evening, which is almost guaranteed unless you actively do something to screw it up.

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

I guess I was thinking that if I figured out how it would have to come together to work out best, she could just enjoy it with the idea everything is spontaneous, like she so strongly prefers.

She probably senses you are trying too hard if not flat out clearly recognizes what you are doing - trying to manipulate the situation to increase what you see as the necessary ingredients for your desired outcome. If she is interested in putting herself in the environment - clubs, parties, etc - then just go with it, enjoy yourselves, and take what comes at the speed of the slowest person. Don't try to make a difficult thing even more difficult by forcing the issue.

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

I really thought it would be easier than it's proven to be. I know other people who get wild and have fun like that. Maybe I was hoping for too much. I certainly don't want to screw up.

The sex part isn't easy, the having fun part is. Everybody is different - some don't have a problem letting their inner hedonist pop right out, while others are more reserved. Everybody is different and everybody is right, it's just a matter of what they feel personally feel comfortable with.

We're not veterans and we're not newbies, but one thing we learned pretty quick was to not have too many expectations. We have ended up playing on nights one or both initially said we weren't in the mood to play and had a great time, and vice-versa. Now, we don't walk in the door with those expectations one way or another, so therefore don't have anything we feel we have to meet, which just makes the whole thing more relaxed and fun.