Wife not comfortable with pre-planning - how do I make it easier for her?

[slevin]

I think the biggest stumbling block you've created for yourself is that it sounds like you have set this up as what YOU want, how YOU want her to act, what YOU want to happen. It's all your fantasy and your fantasy of how she should be. None of it is about her fantasies or what she wants. You have only talked about what YOU want her fantasies to be.

Make this about her and her fantasies, what she wants, what she'll get. Perhaps that will be helpful in making a difference.

[TravlParty]

I think so much of it has to do with being on vacay, away from everyone we know and having the every day stresses taken away. When it's like that, she's a blast to play with.

Ah yes, I can identify with this! Being able to let go away from the home front is definitely who I am, thus our nickname. We always travel to a party away from home.

It took years for my husband to gradually break me out of my shell. I was a very sexual person in college. I went through a time when I felt very ashamed of those actions, and repressed myself sexually. Then I married a very uptight man, who thought sex was "dirty". There was absolutely no experimentation in that marriage.

My current husband has much different views on sexuality - thankfully! He started very slowly by introducing me to fun resorts where I could go topless. What freedom!

We gradually went from that to nudity. Shortly thereafter, we learned about the lifestyle.

There's a lot of the story I'm leaving out (it's just too long), but be patient. Don't push her, and allow her to gradually let her inner wild child go. She has to become comfortable with her sexuality. It's in there, just "asleep."

Realize that as women we're raised differently than men (in most cases). We're the caregivers and household managers. It's only when we can escape those environments that we truly feel we can be another persona.

If you want more detail about the things he did and how he brought out the sexually confident woman I am today, PM us.

Good luck!

[LOL_OMG]

Hiya

The one thing that stands out as a red flag in your post is the title 'Setting the hook.,' To me that one sentence says more than your entire post. If it was not meant as bad as it sounds then please forgive the negative tone in my comment.

Having said that from our own experiences I agree with Travl. Mrs. Lol and I started out by going to a top notch swing club and did nothing more for the first few times than take in the atmosphere and ambiance of the club. That allowed us to progress at a rate that suited Mrs. Lol.

Welcome to the board and good luck.

Mr. Lol

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by LOL_OMG

Hiya

The one thing that stands out as a red flag in your post is the title 'Setting the hook.,' To me that one sentence says more than your entire post. If it was not meant as bad as it sounds then please forgive the negative tone in my comment.

Having said that from our own experiences I agree with Travl. Mrs. Lol and I started out by going to a top notch swing club and did nothing more for the first few times than take in the atmosphere and ambiance of the club. That allowed us to progress at a rate that suited Mrs. Lol.

Welcome to the board and good luck.

Mr. Lol

Well, I didn't intend it to be bad, I know that. By "setting the hook" I meant exposing her to the opportunity and giving her the chance to find something she was excited about. Once she experienced that, I felt she would be "hooked" but not in a bad way. Does that make any sense, or am I just missing the point?
Nevermind your tone. I have thick skin. I wouldn't be asking questions if I didn't want real answers. Thanks for your reply. It was taken openly. No worries.

[VANudistcpl]

Well, what else can be said.... We agree with everything said above. I would probably have called the thread "planting the seed" as opposed to setting the hook.

Now that being said before we jumped right in we talked and I was very open eith Mrs. Nudist about what I was looking for and she the same. It took over 2 years for me to "convince" the Mrs. and now she enjoys swinging as much as I do. For example I wanted to see her give another guy a blow job (my opinion, but she is the best around). For months she was not into the idea, and at first wouldn't even talk about it. The more we talked the more the idea began to take hold. One night while at the club she went down on another guy while I watched. Afterward I told her what a turn on it was and now she has no problem with giving someone a blow job.

We have set our limits, talked about fantasies, and what else we want to do in the lifestyle. If life would get out of the way we would spend more time at the local clubs.

[tx4021]

My wife and I are in our early sixties. We have been married for almost 40 years. In some ways we are in the same situation. Our sex life has always been excellent and there isn't much we haven't done together. During our twenties we both did a lot of flirting some of which turned out well some not so well. Not too long ago, I brought up the idea of swinging to my wife. She was not terribly open to the idea. To make a long story short, we have not completely resolved this issue but we have communicated and reached a compromise. We have never swapped but we do go to lifestyle venues. We also go to nudists resorts. We enjoy dancing in the nude at the resorts and we enjoy dirty dancing at swinger events. We have been to Desire and have made love on the beach. At Desire my wife was very open to making love in front of other couples and watching others was also a turn on. We had sex up to four times a day. Not bad for a couple in out late fifties at the time. Desire brings that out in you. At local swing events, my wife is less willing to do to the “hospitality” rooms but has nothing against dressing up and doing some dirty dancing. We always have some great sex in our hotel room afterwards. My wife is still very fit and extremely attractive. She is often approached by men of all ages but seems to have no interest in swinging with them. I would also like to see her have sex with someone else, male or female but I think I have to accept the fact that that will probably never happen. She has given me permission to swing but I really don't think I am interested in doing it without her. While she is willing to grant me permission, I don't think she would be happy about my being with someone else. My love for her is more important than swinging. I have had a few opportunities to cheat over the years, but have never acted on them because I don't believe in cheating. Fortunately we are able to share our fantasies with each other. I have to accept that some of my fantasies may never come true. Communication has been the key. I have to admit that I still hold onto the hope that maybe someday my wife will find the right situation and cross the line. I am pretty sure that this will never happen but I am thankful that my wife and I have shared such a great life together and that she is still attractive, sexy and a “slut” in the bedroom. We have also made some friends in the lifestyle. We seem to be accepted even if we don't swap. Actually we have met some very interesting people whom we would not have otherwise met.

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by tx4021

My wife and I are in our early sixties. We have been married for almost 40 years. In some ways we are in the same situation. Our sex life has always been excellent and there isn't much we haven't done together. During our twenties we both did a lot of flirting some of which turned out well some not so well. Not too long ago, I brought up the idea of swinging to my wife. She was not terribly open to the idea. To make a long story short, we have not completely resolved this issue but we have communicated and reached a compromise. We have never swapped but we do go to lifestyle venues. We also go to nudists resorts. We enjoy dancing in the nude at the resorts and we enjoy dirty dancing at swinger events. We have been to Desire and have made love on the beach. At Desire my wife was very open to making love in front of other couples and watching others was also a turn on. We had sex up to four times a day. Not bad for a couple in out late fifties at the time. Desire brings that out in you. At local swing events, my wife is less willing to do to the “hospitality” rooms but has nothing against dressing up and doing some dirty dancing. We always have some great sex in our hotel room afterwards. My wife is still very fit and extremely attractive. She is often approached by men of all ages but seems to have no interest in swinging with them. I would also like to see her have sex with someone else, male or female but I think I have to accept the fact that that will probably never happen. She has given me permission to swing but I really don't think I am interested in doing it without her. While she is willing to grant me permission, I don't think she would be happy about my being with someone else. My love for her is more important than swinging. I have had a few opportunities to cheat over the years, but have never acted on them because I don't believe in cheating. Fortunately we are able to share our fantasies with each other. I have to accept that some of my fantasies may never come true. Communication has been the key. I have to admit that I still hold onto the hope that maybe someday my wife will find the right situation and cross the line. I am pretty sure that this will never happen but I am thankful that my wife and I have shared such a great life together and that she is still attractive, sexy and a “slut” in the bedroom. We have also made some friends in the lifestyle. We seem to be accepted even if we don't swap. Actually we have met some very interesting people whom we would not have otherwise met.

I think we might be a lot alike as far as couples go. It sounds like you guys have a lot of fun, as we always do. We're kooks and crack each other up constantly. I could see us just going to those places and dancing and having fun and just letting that be it. Our relationship is the most important thing. My wife can surprise me when I least expect it. I think I need to just take her to go have fun and let things take their natural course. She already knows I'm cool with her being wild. That's really enough. If the mood ever strikes her, I'll take it as a bonus.
Best of luck to you guys!

[fun4t&c]

Happy 2009 from Iraq, everybody!!!

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by cplnuswing

I think the key word here is "nothing". The way we approach swinging is that all we want to happen is to have a fun time together. Sometimes that involves sex with others, most times not. It's difficult to find four people that all feel the chemistry and are compatible. If that is your true measure of something over nothing, then be prepared for a lot of nothings, especially when first starting out. If you are in it for the right reasons though, success will come easily since success just means you both had a fun evening, which is almost guaranteed unless you actively do something to screw it up.



She probably senses you are trying too hard if not flat out clearly recognizes what you are doing - trying to manipulate the situation to increase what you see as the necessary ingredients for your desired outcome. If she is interested in putting herself in the environment - clubs, parties, etc - then just go with it, enjoy yourselves, and take what comes at the speed of the slowest person. Don't try to make a difficult thing even more difficult by forcing the issue.



The sex part isn't easy, the having fun part is. Everybody is different - some don't have a problem letting their inner hedonist pop right out, while others are more reserved. Everybody is different and everybody is right, it's just a matter of what they feel personally feel comfortable with.

We're not veterans and we're not newbies, but one thing we learned pretty quick was to not have too many expectations. We have ended up playing on nights one or both initially said we weren't in the mood to play and had a great time, and vice-versa. Now, we don't walk in the door with those expectations one way or another, so therefore don't have anything we feel we have to meet, which just makes the whole thing more relaxed and fun.

You're right, I wanted to see her "go" and I was trying too hard. I'm gonna stop. If she doesn't have it in her, she just doesn't. My desires can sit.

[tx4021]

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

I think we might be a lot alike as far as couples go. It sounds like you guys have a lot of fun, as we always do. We're kooks and crack each other up constantly. I could see us just going to those places and dancing and having fun and just letting that be it. Our relationship is the most important thing. My wife can surprise me when I least expect it. I think I need to just take her to go have fun and let things take their natural course. She already knows I'm cool with her being wild. That's really enough. If the mood ever strikes her, I'll take it as a bonus.
Best of luck to you guys!

I think you are right. My wife surprises me sometimes as well. Have you ever played the "Sex is Fun Game"? We have had some real fun with that. We have no connection to this company, but we think you might find the game to be fun. It isn't lame like many sex games and it get us talking as well as making love.

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by tx4021

I think you are right. My wife surprises me sometimes as well. Have you ever played the "Sex is Fun Game"? We have had some real fun with that. We have no connection to this company, but we think you might find the game to be fun. It isn't lame like many sex games and it get us talking as well as making love.

No, we haven't tried the game. We'll have to look into that. Sounds like it could be a kick.

Thanks for the tip.

[iapr]

I think you may be trying to take a bulldog to the greyhound track and hoping it will win the big race. Good chance it just ain't gonna happen.

I agree with what Ivory Towers et all have said, you just can't make someone perform outside of their design potential. Betty Crocker/June Cleaver just may be her "happy place" and she just wasn't designed to be a slut or a porn star.

Here's another reality check, even most porn stars aren't sluts or hot sex kittens in real life either. Most of them are probably most at home in sweat pants and t-shirts baking cookies for their children too.

Porn isn't real. They are paid actors reciting a script and following instructions for money. Here's the catch with that, most of them do a crappy job of it - it looks stupid- it's all an act- and they probably get pissed off and fed up with their directors and once the money is in their hand they walk out the door and go back to their Betty Crocker lives and try to put as much distance between them and their handlers as they can.

Here is where you may get bit in the ass if your not carefull. The same thing could happen to you. You are trying to be a porn director here and turn Betty Crocker into a porn starlet. You are trying to get her to put on an act and to play a role for your benifit. If you offer enough incentive she will probably try it but like the porn star, once she does it she will probably do a crappy job of it and will probably be somewhat resentfull of it and once she has that money (metaphorically speaking) in her hand she will walk away and try to go back to her real life and put as much distance between you and her as possible.

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by iapr

I think you may be trying to take a bulldog to the greyhound track and hoping it will win the big race. Good chance it just ain't gonna happen.

I agree with what Ivory Towers et all have said, you just can't make someone perform outside of their design potential. Betty Crocker/June Cleaver just may be her "happy place" and she just wasn't designed to be a slut or a porn star.

Here's another reality check, even most porn stars aren't sluts or hot sex kittens in real life either. Most of them are probably most at home in sweat pants and t-shirts baking cookies for their children too.

Porn isn't real. They are paid actors reciting a script and following instructions for money. Here's the catch with that, most of them do a crappy job of it - it looks stupid- it's all an act- and they probably get pissed off and fed up with their directors and once the money is in their hand they walk out the door and go back to their Betty Crocker lives and try to put as much distance between them and their handlers as they can.

Here is where you may get bit in the ass if your not carefull. The same thing could happen to you. You are trying to be a porn director here and turn Betty Crocker into a porn starlet. You are trying to get her to put on an act and to play a role for your benifit. If you offer enough incentive she will probably try it but like the porn star, once she does it she will probably do a crappy job of it and will probably be somewhat resentfull of it and once she has that money (metaphorically speaking) in her hand she will walk away and try to go back to her real life and put as much distance between you and her as possible.

Well, thanks for the "reality check". I'll give you credit for not intending that as insulting as it sounded. Just so you know, she's let loose on her own and about scared the crap out of me. She has it in her. I'm just trying to learn about how to let it out, if that's appropriate for her. No, it wouldn't be just for my benefit.
I hear what you're saying about if it isn't what she's after, she'd run the other way.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by fun4t&c

. Just so you know, she's let loose on her own and about scared the crap out of me. She has it in her. I'm just trying to learn about how to let it out, if that's appropriate for her.

No I'm not meaning to be insulting just trying to understand. I guess I'm not getting what the issue is and what exactly it is you are asking of us. What is it exactly you are wanting her to do? Are you wanting her to dress sexy and flirt and dirty dance or are you wanting her to actually swing with you and you both have sex with other people? I guess I am missing something out of the equation so lets start with what exactly you are wanting to achieve.

You say that she has "cut loose" and "has it in her" so what is it you are trying to do?

Lets talk about you a little more and see if we can determine your role in this a little better. Are you a control freak? (I definately am so it's ok for me to ask that) Do you feel like it is up to you to make things happen and that if you don't make it happen it won't occur?

Do you feel like this is something she is wanting to do but that she has some kind of "block" inside her that is keeping her from doing it and that if you were better able to manipulate the environment that she would respond positively? (When you said you were trying to "unlock the code" made me think this may be the case) Do you feel like she is wanting to do it but is dragging her feet or just spinning her wheels? Do you feel like she wants to and would do a good of it but that she just needs a little "push/nudge" to get her started?

If you answered yes to any of those questions you may be a bit of a control freak and feel like it is up to you to make things happen, even if all parties are consenting. That's not a slam and that's not necessarily a bad thing. ALL couples have one person that has a little more initiative and is the one that makes things happen more than the other.

When it becomes problematic is when one person feels things just aren't moving along far enough or fast enough and it becomes a "pressuring" type issue.

From your descriptions you sound like your wife is very much a fly-by-the-seat-of-her-pants type person where everything depends on the mood of the moment whereas you have a specific endpoint in mind and want to find the fastest and most efficient route from point A to point Z.

As long as all parties are consenting and in agreement where the point Z is there is hope. You just need to find a way to work together where one isn't feeling pressured and that things are being too contrived and the other needs to feel the other one isn't dragging her feet and holding back for no valid reason.

Before I burn up any more bandwidth, am I on track so far or am I missing things completely?

[fun4t&c]

Originally Posted by iapr

No I'm not meaning to be insulting just trying to understand. I guess I'm not getting what the issue is and what exactly it is you are asking of us. What is it exactly you are wanting her to do? Are you wanting her to dress sexy and flirt and dirty dance or are you wanting her to actually swing with you and you both have sex with other people? I guess I am missing something out of the equation so lets start with what exactly you are wanting to achieve.

You say that she has "cut loose" and "has it in her" so what is it you are trying to do?

Lets talk about you a little more and see if we can determine your role in this a little better. Are you a control freak? (I definately am so it's ok for me to ask that) Do you feel like it is up to you to make things happen and that if you don't make it happen it won't occur?

Do you feel like this is something she is wanting to do but that she has some kind of "block" inside her that is keeping her from doing it and that if you were better able to manipulate the environment that she would respond positively? (When you said you were trying to "unlock the code" made me think this may be the case) Do you feel like she is wanting to do it but is dragging her feet or just spinning her wheels? Do you feel like she wants to and would do a good of it but that she just needs a little "push/nudge" to get her started?

If you answered yes to any of those questions you may be a bit of a control freak and feel like it is up to you to make things happen, even if all parties are consenting. That's not a slam and that's not necessarily a bad thing. ALL couples have one person that has a little more initiative and is the one that makes things happen more than the other.

When it becomes problematic is when one person feels things just aren't moving along far enough or fast enough and it becomes a "pressuring" type issue.

From your descriptions you sound like your wife is very much a fly-by-the-seat-of-her-pants type person where everything depends on the mood of the moment whereas you have a specific endpoint in mind and want to find the fastest and most efficient route from point A to point Z.

As long as all parties are consenting and in agreement where the point Z is there is hope. You just need to find a way to work together where one isn't feeling pressured and that things are being too contrived and the other needs to feel the other one isn't dragging her feet and holding back for no valid reason.

Before I burn up any more bandwidth, am I on track so far or am I missing things completely?

Bingo! Now you're tracking. I'm not a control freak, but I was guilty of unwittingly creating some unintended "pressure" on this issue, which I regret. I do feel like she's dragging her feet more than I can understand, given her known wild side. I'm trying to tune into her required pace for things. That's been made extremely difficult, because she just recently learned what made her tick in so many ways and learned how to express her real feelings. Long story on that. So now that we're closer and she's a more effective communicator, she's indicated she wouldn't mind going back to a place like Desire's to party. I just have to handle it the right way.

Would I like to see her go wild and do a full swap? Sure, but all in good time. Would I like to play, too? Well, I'm a healthy guy, so I wouldn't mind that at all. My real attraction is to see HER flirt and play, though. I guess I could call it seeing her exercise her sexuality, or find another gear, or some other appropriate analogy for being a slut for the night/weekend.

That's why I'm on here and that's why I posted this thread. I want to learn what I should do to not screw things up. Yes, she has her own timing that is only and very spontaneous. She doesn't like for things to be arranged or contrived. Meanwhile, I'm sitting around like a little boy waiting for Christmas. ..."Mommy, is is Christmas yet? How 'bout now? Now?" You can see why I can't be doing that. So, I try to plan. If not deliberately, at least by getting an education on how not to screw up a potentially beautiful thing. Just dancing and flirting would be fun to see. She's seen me let loose at parties and clubs a couple times, meeting people all over the place. She keeps saying she really likes to see me having fun like that. She's impressed at how I socialize. That's interesting to me, because she's the same way, but with tits! Tits don't make EVERYTHING better.

Anyway, she's a social charmer, to be sure. However, I have to admit, what I'd really like to see, when the time is right, is her fully going at it. I want her to experience everything that life has to offer. We've been fortunate. We've worked hard and we have good careers. We've aquired some handsome assets along the way and we're both very happy and healthy. This would be just an another adventure that I feel she would be attracted to , if she finds the right people. Again, she's not attracted to just anybody. She's particularly selective. I guess that's where my "control" issue comes in on this. I've wanted to help create a situation where she can be with the beautiful people she would enjoy playing with. Maybe I'm just dreaming. Maybe I should just let it remain a dream. However, I've gone after all of my lifes goals and have accomplished them. I take action. I dare to fo for what others just sit around and talk about. That's why I started trying to help this dream along, just out of muscle memory. I really don't wnat her to feel anything but happy. ....So, I post and learn for now.
I hope that makes sense.