How do I know if my husband really wants to swing?

[sapphire68]

How do you know you want to do this for real? My husband and I only discuss me being with another man while in bed together actually making love. We never discuss it outside of the bedroom. Is it a real possibility that he is only discussing this while in bed to make sex more steamy at that moment? How can I tell. FWIW, he has shared me before but it was over 9 years ago.

[intuition897]

A helluva lot can change in 9 years.

Your best bet is to take the discussion to the kitchen table over coffee. If you can't discuss it with relative ease, then you shouldn't be doing it (yet, at least). You need to get to know the scary parts of each other a bit better before diving in. Keep reading and posting, and let us know how the talk goes.

[sapphire68]

Thanks. The last time we discussed it (in the heat of the moment) he asked if I saw anyone recently that I was attracted to and I told him yes and who it was and he encouraged me to go where this person works and flirt and try and get to know them and get their number. But this was a couple of weeks ago and he hasn't brought it up again. This is something he pretty much refuses to talk about unless we are in bed, so I never bring it up outside the bedroom. We have children, our oldest is 10 and I don't want to bring it up when our child is home ofcourse.

[swing52001]

I'd be heading for the kitchen table discussion sapphire unless you like drama. Your hubby could be on another planet totally unaware of his ambiguous proposition. Best to be sure, don't you think? Just my 2c worth.

[fun4Ds]

I can understand about children being around, now that ours are grown. It dose leave a little more freedom at the table. But, if bed is where he talks, so be it. Set the stage, so to speak. Put on something sexy, meet up in bed and talk. Our private time was far and few between at one point. I can remember allot of low tone almost whispering discussions when the kids were home . Maybe even go out to dinner somewhere alone and say whats on your mind. There is nothing wrong with that (from a guys point of view)

[sapphire68]

I guess you just have to know my husband. He can get pissed and upset really easily if I discuss something he doesn't want to talk about. I'm afraid if I bring it up outside the bedroom he will get pissed and go off on me and forget ever talking about it again and forget having sex together for another 3 or 4 months. He's seriously that way. He would probably just not have sex with me to get me back for bringing up something he didn't want to talk about at that moment. That's how he can be. I love him to death and he loves me but he is just that way. He runs his own business and thinks like a boss constantly. I have to do things his way. It's almost like I feel like I'm just an employee and if I say something out of line then I will get fired. It's a tough situatoin in some ways, when it comes to verbally going in to this with him.

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by sapphire68

How do you know you want to do this for real? My husband and I only discuss me being with another man while in bed together actually making love. We never discuss it outside of the bedroom. Is it a real possibility that he is only discussing this while in bed to make sex more steamy at that moment? How can I tell. FWIW, he has shared me before but it was over 9 years ago.

Sit down with him when you aren't in the mood and talk with him abou it.
welceome to the board.

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by sapphire68

I guess you just have to know my husband. He can get pissed and upset really easily if I discuss something he doesn't want to talk about. I'm afraid if I bring it up outside the bedroom he will get pissed and go off on me and forget ever talking about it again and forget having sex together for another 3 or 4 months. He's seriously that way. He would probably just not have sex with me to get me back for bringing up something he didn't want to talk about at that moment. That's how he can be. I love him to death and he loves me but he is just that way. He runs his own business and thinks like a boss constantly. I have to do things his way. It's almost like I feel like I'm just an employee and if I say something out of line then I will get fired. It's a tough situatoin in some ways, when it comes to verbally going in to this with him.

I didn't read this post. I have no idea what to say about this, so I will keep my opinions on how you are treated to myself.

[sapphire68]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

I didn't read this post. I have no idea what to say about this, so I will keep my opinions on how you are treated to myself.

I probably know what you are going to say. It's the same thing I'm sure I tell myself at times. I love him and so I put up with the bad times as well as the good ones. But he is the type of person that only does things he wants to do when he wants to do them and everyone around him has to adhere to that. When I saw the movie "The Break Up" the guy on there totally reminded me of my husband in that respect.

[MoonLightKiss]

Originally Posted by sapphire68

I guess you just have to know my husband. He can get pissed and upset really easily if I discuss something he doesn't want to talk about. I'm afraid if I bring it up outside the bedroom he will get pissed and go off on me and forget ever talking about it again and forget having sex together for another 3 or 4 months. He's seriously that way. He would probably just not have sex with me to get me back for bringing up something he didn't want to talk about at that moment. That's how he can be. I love him to death and he loves me but he is just that way. He runs his own business and thinks like a boss constantly. I have to do things his way. It's almost like I feel like I'm just an employee and if I say something out of line then I will get fired. It's a tough situatoin in some ways, when it comes to verbally going in to this with him.

Well, gee, where to start. First and foremost, it sounds like you and he have some communication issues and until those are resolved I would probably say put a hold on any swinging issues until those are resolved. Without communication, swinging can seriously destroy a marraige. So my advice, fix those first. My husband can get ill over some of the most petty things. As can I. But we are usually talking about the fact that I forgot to put gas in the car, or he forgot to put his clothes in the laundry room. We don't have issues with each other that in any way makes the other one feel that they can not approach us with something. Being afraid to talk to your husband is no way to live, and you can bet your sweet ass I wouldn't tolerate it at all.

Secondly, my husband owns a business too. And I am so not an employee. And I even help him with his business when he gets busy. I am his wife. Not an employee, child, or anyone else he can boss around. I love him with all my heart, but you let him talk to me like he can fire me any second. He won't be firing me, I will be on strike. We will see how he likes not having any clean laundry when I don't do it. I would also cook a wonderful meal for me and the kids and then tell him bread is in the cabinet, lunch meat in the fridge, fix your own damn meal.

These issues probably need to be addressed more than swinging. If this is his attitude now, what will it be when you are both in a club and he sees a wife he would love to play with, but you aren't really attracted to the husband. You gonna take one for the team cause he said you had to? Or are you going to refuse and piss him off? It truly takes a strong marraige to make swinging not only work, but be successful IMO.

Originally Posted by sapphire68

I probably know what you are going to say. It's the same thing I'm sure I tell myself at times. I love him and so I put up with the bad times as well as the good ones. But he is the type of person that only does things he wants to do when he wants to do them and everyone around him has to adhere to that. When I saw the movie "The Break Up" the guy on there totally reminded me of my husband in that respect.

Putting up with bad times is one thing. Putting up with selfishness is something else. We are all human, and at times because of that, we can all be selfish. It is realizing we are selfish and changing it that makes us decent. Is he realizing how selfish he is and how he makes you feel? If not point it out. If he is realizing it and does it anyway without any attempt to change it, then its just one word for him...asshole.

There is more than physical abuse to be found in a bad marraige. (I am no way implying he does that, only that in marraiges in general there is more than one type of abuse) There is emotional, and verbal. And it is starting to sound like that is possibly going on here. You fear approaching him with issues. Emotional. He gets pissed off at you when you do approach him with issues he does not like. Verbal.

I am not saying that is what is going on. Only what it appears to be. I hope I am wrong and completely misinterpreted what you were trying to say. But if I wasn't, perhaps counseling would be a better idea than swinging.

[intuition897]

Wow.

Sapphire, that second-last post tells me a LOT! I'll break it into more manageable chunks...

Originally Posted by sapphire68

I guess you just have to know my husband. He can get pissed and upset really easily if I discuss something he doesn't want to talk about. I'm afraid if I bring it up outside the bedroom he will get pissed and go off on me and forget ever talking about it again and forget having sex together for another 3 or 4 months. He's seriously that way. He would probably just not have sex with me to get me back for bringing up something he didn't want to talk about at that moment. That's how he can be.

This alone tells me that neither of you are ready for swinging.

1. He is avoidant of anything that doesn't agree with his plans
2. He actually gets angry when you bring up something that matters to you.
3. He childishly witholds affection as punishment...for months at a time!
4. He uses sex as a weapon (sort of the same as point #3).
5. He behaves this way, and you allow it.

Seriously, you ARE allowing him to treat you this way. You might feel that you don't have any control, but in fact, you do. The trouble is that putting your foot down will mean that he's going to get REALLYpissed, because Mama's little man isn't getting his way. Well, guess what? That's life. Sometimes you just can't get what you want...like a subservient partner who will bend and bow at his every whim. If you don't like the person that you are within this dynamic, it's up to you to change it...because he seems to like it just fine. He's not going to change, unless you force him to decide to. Force and coercion are never good, but in this case, it's different. He needs to be forced into a decision: which does he love more? You? Or himself? Just be prepared for a possibly disappointing answer. But the good news is you won't be wasting each other's time in this way anymore.

Originally Posted by sapphire68

I love him to death and he loves me but he is just that way. He runs his own business and thinks like a boss constantly. I have to do things his way. It's almost like I feel like I'm just an employee and if I say something out of line then I will get fired. It's a tough situatoin in some ways, when it comes to verbally going in to this with him.

No...actually you don't have to do things his way. One way you could bring this up is the next time he starts treating you like an employee, square your feet up, put your hands on your hips, and get MAD. Get mad, but stay calm. Look him right in the eye and ask him if he thinks you are one of his employees? Because he sure as shit makes it seem that way. If this is out of character for you, he'll likely be a little taken aback. But whatever you do, when he takes a deep breath and starts to roar at you, do NOT let him intimidate you. This is merely an illusion (unless, of course, you have reason to believe that he will become physically violent). He is used to being able to bully you around, and THIS time, you will not be bullied. Oh no. This time you are standing there watching him stomp his feet and turn red like a two-year-old in a full-throttle tantrum. When he verbally abuses you, when he gets in your personal space with intimidating body language, your facial expression won't change, and you won't move. Because you are calm. And because you are right. If he's in the wrong, he's in the wrong. Don't let him draw you into a blame-fest. Don't be fooled by his attempts to divert your attention and change the subject (probably to things that are YOUR fault). This is a learned defense mechanism. It's been working wonders for him for years now. The trick is to remove yourself from it's effect. This will take practice, because, just like Pavlov's dogs, you will be almost overwhelmingly tempted to do what you've always done. But instead, take your head outside of the encounter and see what he is doing, and what you are doing. Study it like you are studying ants under a microscope. Remove emotion from the argument. It's okay to acknowledge that you are sad, hurt, fearful, etc., but it is NOT okay to react to it. This is called owning your feelings. Don't worry. The sky won't fall. Once you see that his getting angry is not the end of the world (because you know where you stand and refuse to be moved), it will be much easier to do it again. And again. Before you know it, you're one assertive woman!

I will warn you again: when you confront someone in this way, forcing them to see themselves as they really are, they're not going to like it much. And you make a convenient (and, to their mind, logical) target. You will need to make up your mind before this argument begins that you want a real adult relationship, that you deserve one, and that you are refusing to settle for anything less. And when I say 'refusing to settle', I really mean it. If his pride is more important than your relationship, even though he's "always been that way", then he will have been the one to have refused the relationship...not you. You are standing there, offering him the real deal - a real person who wants to be in a loving, caring, honest relationship - and he is allowing his temper and pride to get the better of him. If he refuses to acknowledge his wrong-doing (and I don't mean just telling you what you want to hear to keep you from leaving), then you must follow through and leave. The decision, however, will be his alone. You had already made up your mind what your priorities are.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by sapphire68

I guess you just have to know my husband. He can get pissed and upset really easily if I discuss something he doesn't want to talk about. I'm afraid if I bring it up outside the bedroom he will get pissed and go off on me and forget ever talking about it again and forget having sex together for another 3 or 4 months. He's seriously that way. He would probably just not have sex with me to get me back for bringing up something he didn't want to talk about at that moment. That's how he can be. I love him to death and he loves me but he is just that way. He runs his own business and thinks like a boss constantly. I have to do things his way. It's almost like I feel like I'm just an employee and if I say something out of line then I will get fired. It's a tough situatoin in some ways, when it comes to verbally going in to this with him.

I partially agree with Intuition here. Except that you didn't come here to ask for advice on how to deal with your husband because of the attitudes you mention here, but for a way to reasure you about your husband desires.

So I'd stick to the point (if not, I'd stick to Intuition words).

First, you didn't tell us about YOUR desires, but I guess you actually want to be with another guy. It seems to me you're ok with your relationship as it is. I mean, you said you did a MFM 9 years ago, so you have at least one decade with him (being this way). I guess you engaged on that MFM upong his request. In the other hand, you two seems to enjoy your sexuality and be able to explore your fantasies in bed.

You already know the dynamics inside your marriage. I guess you're confortable enough with the roles you two have (the boss and you), even when from time to time you dislike this, and giving your roles, that you know how to play dumb and deal with him.

So, unless you're too anxious about the MFM, you may do what you do best: play dumb, let him "boss around" and become imperative about this. From your words, this would happen in bed. At this point, you may ask to know if he's being serious about this. If he say "yes", then tell him you need to talk about this some other time, and NOT in bed. Let him know you MAY be up to this, but only if you two have this coffe chat, and let him pick the right moment for him to talk.

In other words, if he wants to be the boss, and you're ok with that, give up explicitily the responsibility for doing things the right way.

A boss is the one giving orders, but also the one responsible to ensure those orders are doable. If you actually were his employee and not his wife, and he were being ambiguous about an order, you wouldn't dare to make a political decition on your own (you'd risk to be fired!), but tell him "if this was an order, I require this and that to be able to fulfill your request". I bet he'd be happy if you let him boss around.

After all, he's as much tied up to his boss role as you are tied up to your role. You can take adventage of this by making him stick to his role

[sapphire68]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Seriously, you ARE allowing him to treat you this way.

Look him right in the eye and ask him if he thinks you are one of his employees?

Once you see that his getting angry is not the end of the world (because you know where you stand and refuse to be moved), it will be much easier to do it again. And again. Before you know it, you're one assertive woman!

I agree that I do allow him to treat me the way he does. I see his "bossy" attitude spilling over on to the children too and I don't like it. BUT our little girl is a lot like daddy and that is becoming clear to him now and he sees how bad he can be because when he gets on to her for her bad behavior he sees how he acts that way too at times.

He KNOWS he shouldn't get angry like he does. Like I said, he took that from his mother. He watched her rant and rave and have to have things her way his whole life. He practically can't stand her but is just like her.

As far as looking him in the eye and asking him about how he treats me as an employee, I have. I have said that to him a lot over the years. Depending on his mood, but he usually agrees that he is a bit pushy and abrupt in his mannerisms. He is good about apologizing when he gets rude, angry or just plain hard to get along with. But for the most part he is very sweet to me each day and as long as other stressors in the world aren't really bugging him he's usually easy to get along with.

I knew he was the way he is before we ever decided to marry ((we had a child before marriage and dated other people in between that time)) so it's not like I went in to the marriage blindly not knowing he would be this way. He was this way long before we were married. I chose to deal with it because I chose to marry him with no intentions of changing of him.

[sapphire68]

Originally Posted by MoonLightKiss

I love him with all my heart, but you let him talk to me like he can fire me any second. He won't be firing me, I will be on strike. We will see how he likes not having any clean laundry when I don't do it. I would also cook a wonderful meal for me and the kids and then tell him bread is in the cabinet, lunch meat in the fridge, fix your own damn meal.

These issues probably need to be addressed more than swinging. If this is his attitude now, what will it be when you are both in a club and he sees a wife he would love to play with, but you aren't really attracted to the husband. You gonna take one for the team cause he said you had to? Or are you going to refuse and piss him off?

I've threatened to not do things around here and he wouldn't care. He'd just get our older son to do it I'm sure. He has threatened to leave ME in the past if "I" ever make him angry enough to yell at me again so he would just get a housekeeper (he used to have one). He's someone that can hire anyone to do anything he needs done so he wouldn't miss me doing that stuff.

To clear things up we aren't looking at doing couples swinging. He doesn't want to do that. I doubt he ever would. He wants to allow another man in the relationship (or so he has said) but for right now he just wants me to be able to go out and meet another man and get my needs satisfied so to speak because he can't do it for me anymore (not often enough anyway). He tells me all the time I could find someone better than him in all areas and he wants to see me happy.

[sapphire68]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

After all, he's as much tied up to his boss role as you are tied up to your role. You can take adventage of this by making him stick to his role

Thanks.

I agree that I probably shouldn't have brought up this other stuff about my husband in here. I should have stuck with the topic at hand. For the most part we do get along and we do agree on things. There are those times here and there that he gets really angry (maybe once per month) but he was that way before he ever met me so I can't see changing that part of him now.

As far as the topic of me with another man. I finally got up the courage to ask him about that yesterday and he didn't reply. Okay, so I sent him an e-mail. He barely talked to me last night and seemed chipper and in a great mood but never brought the subject up and never answered me. So I don't know?? I guess now I just wait until he wants to discuss it further OR maybe some of you are right in that we shouldn't consider anything like this at all since we need to fix some other areas in life.