Wife initiated MFM discussions but now she says it's immoral

[imadorkok]

My wife and I have been married for 15yrs. Its an awesome marriage and we have an open and loving relationship. We've had an ongoing fantasy over the years of a MMF, we've come close but have never taken the plunge (because we've never found a guy we are 100% comfortable with). My wife enjoys showing off and teasing and even initiates it, and I love her for it.

A few years ago I ran into an old friend of mine and we started hanging out again. My wife became very attracted to him and started the fantasy again. Things were progressing and we thought he was the one. It turns out he's not (for reasons I wont go into). So I brought up the idea of finding someone using personal ads or Swing Lifestyle. She freaked, she's questioning why I would want her to sleep with another man. She's made me feel as though something is wrong with me and I should seek help. I should also mention that she is very religious. I'm glad I found this board as it shows that I'm not the only one with these thoughts.

Now we are in this huge fight, I'm mad because I feel she is being closed minded. She's mad because she thinks I've crossed a moral boundary.

I'm not sure what a good out come is.
Any advice?

Thanks

[leftcoastcouple]

Sorry to hear about the friction. I went through something similar years ago when I first approached Mrs. LC with the idea. I sometimes still find it hard to believe that she agreed to at least try it. Once she did, she found she liked it (Funny how good sex can be so persuasive!) and adjusted her moral compass accordingly.

But that's her, and your wife is your wife. Everyone's different, and swinging is not for everyone. It's a complicated issue that often sounds attractive as a fantasy but opens a Pandora's box of emotions, morals, values, insecurities, etc., once it comes closer to reality. And, because it involves two people--and most importantly, a relationship--and requires complete trust and unfettered communication besides, the dynamics of breaching the topic can be horribly unpredictable. Many of us couldn't have predicted how we ourselves would react to such a topic brought up by our partner, let alone how they'd react if we were the ones bringing it up.

After 15 years of marriage, I'd think if you're completely honest with yourself and your motivations, you'd be able to predict fairly well how your wife might react to something this sensitive, or at least have a good idea. Is this out of character for her, or could you have seen it coming had you not been wishing for a particular outcome? Wishing she'd be receptive may not be reality, but only you can say if you were trying to wish it into happening.

One question, though: Did you approach your friend with your wife's knowledge, or without? I'd say bad move if it was the latter--there goes your trust--but if she knew about it, then I'd question why she felt it was OK with your friend but a moral faux pas otherwise. That could be really telling.

Good luck to you both, and remember, whether you end up swinging or not, it's not worth sacrificing a good marriage for. Make sure that takes priority over everything else!

[JustAskJulie]

Question, did the religious part come about before or after the initial attempt to swing?

One thing to consider (besides that) is that for a lot of people fantasies are great as long as they are fantasies. She enjoyed the fantasy and would never have considered making it a reality until the "right" guy came along. When he did she started looking at it as a possibility. When that didn't work out, it sent it back to fantasy land (and may have even removed the fantasy depending on why it didn't work out and how bad things went). This is something she needs to be in control of, by you bringing it up she feels you are pushing it on her - and since at this point there's no guy that she's interested in making things happen with, it's all about you.

Just a thought.

[CandTinLorainCo]

Ok so youradork, seriously though, sorry couldn't help it. Cute screen name though.

Moral boundries where religions are involved are very touchy issuse's, just ask a local priest. Was your wife religous before when you both were entertaining thoughts of MMF? If not that maybe the problem. Perhaps you also maybe over reading her attraction to your friend as somthing more then what it is? Have you and her sat and discussed this honestly and maturely, without either of you feeling pressure?

-T

sorry for the sarcasm if it offended you, wasn't meant to.

[Vantabulous]

Several thoughts going on in my mind on this one.

First, you might be getting a "backlash" reaction from your wife out of disappointment that your friend didn't work out in bringing the fantasy to reality. Utter frustration, for lack of a better expression. You did say she became very attracted to him. (As you may be aware, one of the fantasies shared by many women is having sex with their husband's best friend. Not saying this guy was, but it could be that your wife felt "shorted" on two counts and may see you as the "culprit".)

Second thought. You've come close two times from what you've told us. Perhaps your wife now sees this as an "invisible hand" guiding her away, and saving her, from "temptation" (twice now) and she's seen the light, if you will. As 'T' (CandTinLorainCo) suggests, moral issues are very touchy and, frankly, I'm reluctant to go much deeper into them than this.

Last, consider the possibility that your wife needs to be "around" a guy, preferably a friend, in order to allow herself to open up sexually by "showing off and teasing". She may need this in order to feel spontaneous and comfortable rather than feeling like she's "interviewing" some fellow for a jump in the sack. More importantly, she may feel like you're only looking to satisfy your side of a fantasy that both of you have shared together.

Some food for thought...

Van

[imadorkok]

Wow these are really great comments. I want to clarify a few things.

We never approached my friend with this, although he did make comments that suggested he was interested in my wife. It started off with flirting (on both sides) and my wife showing off. We talked about asking him and she has stated that she would have gone through with it. A combination of him getting a new girlfriend and his personality that eventually turned my wife off.
Although sometimes she still gets into moods and enjoys showing off for him.

She's always been religious and has had been in conflict, but until now she has dealt with it and enjoyed our play time. I think she likes the idea of it just happening and not planing or actively pursuing someone for this. The talk of MMF has always involved someone we know and she felt comfortable with.

Originally Posted by imadorkok

A few years ago I ran into an old friend of mine and we started hanging out again. My wife became very attracted to him and started the fantasy again. Things were progressing and WE thought he was the one. It turns out he's not (for reasons I wont go into). So I brought up the idea of finding someone using personal ads or Swing Lifestyle. She freaked, she's questioning why I would want her to sleep with another man.
Now we are in this huge fight, I'm mad because I feel she is being closed minded. She's mad because she thinks I've crossed a moral boundary.

Thanks

From what I get out of your post she was game for making an MFM a reality with this guy but it didn't work out.

If that is the case I am confused as to why she would freak and question why you would want her to be with another man when you brought up Personal Ads? She didn't freak when you two discussed the earlier gentleman?

I can understand not wanting to use Personal Ads, but to freak on the idea of an MFM itself when you two had previously tried to make one happen puzzles me.

[fun_pairTX]

It seems to us that your wife's fantasy of swinging is to fantasize about swinging. There are folks that enjoy the excitement and intrigue of the chase and flirting, but never cross the line of consummation. ACTUALLY swinging may not be her thing. Best of Luck.

[DaveNSheila]

What I have gathered from your two posts on this thread. She doesn't necessarily want your help with choosing the guy. She wants it to be her idea and even tho you suggested personal ads and Swing Lifestyle it might be that she feels you are taking that away from her. Morally she may be having troubles with placing an ad and actively looking. If it happens it happens, a new life experience and she can continue to pursue it and play or say ok I did it I am done and can be ok with it. I suggest just let it go and when she sees a guy she is interested in she will tell you or state that to her. If and when you find a guy that appeals to you for your fantasy let me know. This way she will feel in control again and she wont feel pressured. Just a suggestion and a thought. D

[BradAndJanet]

Originally Posted by fun_pairTX

It seems to us that your wife's fantasy of swinging is to fantasize about swinging. ...

You may be right, and I'd add that there's nothing wrong with that, so long as they both acknowledge it. The problem here seems to be differing expectations and only some good communication and honesty is going to fix that.

-B

[imadorkok]

Things are a lot better (thanks to your comments). We talked and I think I may have become a little to pushy on the subject. She panicked. I've since toned down the discussion.

I had her read my post and all of your great comments. It made her feel so much better about everything. She thought everyone would gang against her, but she was pleasantly surprised to find out everyone was so nice. She said she didn't realize how nice and normal everyone was. She since agreed to read this board and post questions. Baby steps.

So for now we have made up and will continue to have fun.

[Vantabulous]

Originally Posted by imadorkok

So for now we have made up and will continue to have fun.

I really like this suggestion!

Van

[BradAndJanet]

imadorkok, I'm glad to hear it. Talking it out usually works pretty well.

-B

[WesternSwing]

It sounds to me like she's only comfortable with it if she is controll of it. When you talked about posting ads it removed it from being in her control. She likes to be sexy around other men and see where it goes from there. I'll bet she looks at placing a personal ad as too "mechanical". In person it could just happen. Placing an ad is like forcing it to happen. in guilt terms the former can be justified as being caught-up in the moment. The former is setting it up. See the difference? It's like conservative women doing things when their drunk they won't do sober. To them it makes it excusable in some weird way. It removes the responsibility from them. I hope that made sense.

Let her control it and it will happen when she wants it to. Just watch out for the aftermath if she's feeling this way now.

Mr. WS

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

in guilt terms the former [just letting things happen] can be justified as being caught-up in the moment. The former [placing an ad] is setting it up. See the difference? It's like conservative women doing things when their drunk they won't do sober. To them it makes it excusable in some weird way. It removes the responsibility from them. I hope that made sense.

Let her control it and it will happen when she wants it to. Just watch out for the aftermath if she's feeling this way now.

Mr. WS

I agree, definitely watch out for the aftermath! Personally I think if you need to have an excuse to enjoy swinging, you shouldn't do it. But you two know your marriage better than I do, so if you find living with guilt acceptable, go right ahead. I just think that the morality issues should be worked out early on; otherwise it spoils the fun when you have to worry about the morning-after guilt. Most swingers plan evenings out on a Saturday night. Imagine waking up Sunday morning and going to church, not being able to look the minister in the eye because you feel like a bad person for doing what you did last night. If your wife simply cannot accept her actions as being anything other than sinful, perhaps the fantasy would be best left as just that: a fantasy. Not everyone wants their fantasies to become reality.