Discretion

[OhioCouple]

We had a great live chat last night about discretion in the lifestyle. How do you feel about it? What do you expect from your swing partners?

Geesh, there were so many different aspects brought up last night that I think there will have to be several topics to cover it all.

For this topic, let's talk about in the written word and spoken word.

A particular ad pay site that we belonged to had a live chat session that was ongoing. There were quite a few people that didn't hesitate to 'name names' (and I'm talking real names, as we had met a few of them in the past) not use their 'handle' or express their experiences in explicit detail, about who they were with and what they did the weekend prior.

I found that tacky and that is one reason we no longer belong to that ad site. If people are talking that openly (even on an adult site) I tend to think they may express way too much information about you in real life. It almost appeared to be a bragging sort of thing. Like "Hey, we romped with so and so last night and you wouldn't believe....(fill in the blank) " .

As most people tend to reaveal a lot of personal information with their partners, ie.. home phone numbers, career, kids...etc. How would you feel in this situation? Would that be okay with you?

While I don't have children at home anymore, we have met with those that live in the area of two of them. I feel that if they are talking that openly with others, even on an adult site...they just might just happen across someone that knows them or heaven forbid one of the kids (who are all adults) and just blabber mouth. Not exactly what I want to wake up to on some bright sunny morning with questions I sure as hell don't wanna have to try and explain to them.

So how do ya'll feel about it?

[Marquis de Sade]

First, I would like to say hello to everyone. This is our first time posting here, though we have lurked these boards for months and have found many 'o interesting discussion.

Heather and I would always respect the distrection asked for by those we play with. I can't say either of us fully agree with discretion in general though.

For myself, I tend to see discretion as an acceptence that swinging is somehow ammoral and that it need be covered up, lest society burn us all at the stake! I am proud of the life style! I consider it enlightened. I consider it more moral than monoghamy. Monoghamy is an unnatural state and too often has led to deceit in relationships. I see the whole institution as sinful and I have no intention of letting those whom I consider to have a backward way of thinking, bound by the trappings of socialization, cowl my way of life.

We are generally very open and all of my mundane friends know of our lifestyle. There are those who know us that are not aware but that is primarily because they just never asked.

The only exception to this rule is my family who are very conservative and I have no desire to give my mother a heart attack you understand...

I do not think bragging is the same as not being discreet however. We will tell people we are swinging but, if desired, we will not disclose our partners and have never treated encounters as "conquests," merely encounters of mutual pleasure. This weekend, for instance, we will have a couple whom we are close friends with and swing with come down to hang out with us and some of our mundane friends. Their sexual participation with us is not something that we are announcing and would never even have the possibility of being mentioned unless they felt as we do.

As far as mentioning personal info that can ID us. I am uncomfortable with this in general with people I do not yet know. This has nothing to do with being "exposed" as a swinger o society at large but rather the fact that ya just don't know what wierdos are out there. We like to IM back 'n forth first to get to know the people first. One we are satisfied that they are our kinda people, I have no reservations with providing any relevent info.

~ Heather 'n Michael

[saranmark]

I think that the level of discretion necessary is determined by the participants. It is different for everyone.

I understand what Marquis is saying, that by covering up the fact that you are involved in the lifestyle you are, in effect, acting as though it is immoral or wrong.

HOWEVER, many of us have careers where it is essential to maintain levels of proprietary. It is necessary to keep our personal lives private. By doing so, we are in no way renouncing the lifestyle, we are just protecting our careers.

This same logic would apply to various people who would'nt want their churches or families to know about their involvement in the lifestyle.

I think that everyone should respect the level of discretion that the people they are with desire to have. It's simple courtesy, in my opinion.

S

[Marquis de Sade]

I'm not sure that there are too many careers which would be threatened if a persons sexual tastes came to light. Running for political office is one ( which drivers me nuts that people would allow such a thing to sway their judgement) but I can't really think of any other jobs in which this would happen...

I think people with this concern mainly FEAR that they will be discriminated against and be denied advancement or fired.

[orlflcpl]

Hello all, first post as me and the MRS. have been reading the board for some time.

I hate the fact that discretion is necessary,but to the point of 'not many jobs where discretion is required' to be absolutely false. I am a CPA with many clients, of which many are older but in general most are very conservative. And other jobs where discretion is a must--public service, school teachers, daycare workers, police officers, etc. It is a shame that people do FEAR being judged more so than they actually MAY be, but the point is there is always a chance so why risk it.

Any way, the most attractiveness of people in the 'life style' is their openness and they are generally more accepting.

[Brit_Pair]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sade
I'm not sure that there are too many careers which would be threatened if a persons sexual tastes came to light. Running for political office is one ( which drivers me nuts that people would allow such a thing to sway their judgement) but I can't really think of any other jobs in which this would happen...

I think people with this concern mainly FEAR that they will be discriminated against and be denied advancement or fired.

Sorry, but we’d have to qualify that as a naïve point of view. People fear they would be discriminated against with good reason. A glance at the tabloid press of almost any western nation would provide a plethora of evidence to support the grounds for that fear.

There are probably few walks of life – both career and social-wise – that wouldn’t be influenced by a person’s / couple’s admission to having an interest in this particular lifestyle extension. Given the (at present) fundamentally conservative nature of the human species, those effects would most likely be negative. The exact nature of that negativity would range, but it would be there, whether it was in the form of unwanted publicity, reduction (or cessation) of contact with family or friends, a loss of business (particularly for those engaged in their own enterprises) or even outright dismissal on the grounds of ‘moral inappropriateness’ or some such charge.

You and your partner are sufficiently forward-minded and confident to openly declare your interests. Many people are not. The fact that they practice discretion does not mean that they accept that ‘swinging’ is wrong. It merely demonstrates a pragmatic acceptance of the reality of the world in general.

You might argue that without people who are prepared to step forward and declare that their lifestyle choice is neither amoral nor perverted, the status quo will persevere. But at the end of the day, what would that truly gain? The end of a need for discretion?

Personally, we would still choose to be discreet. We would no more openly discuss what we did sexually with other people than we would discuss what we do sexually when alone. In fact, we enjoy having a facet to our lives that is private, that we choose to share only with a limited number of select people. It adds a frisson to the experience.

As to Mrs O’s original point, we wouldn’t want our experiences to be talked about by any of the people we play with in such a revelatory manner, and we certainly wouldn’t thank anyone for doing it in a public forum such as a swinger site’s chat room. It shows a complete lack of respect. It’s our choice as to whether we identify our participation in the lifestyle, not someone else’s.

[JustAskJulie]

I don't think it's any different than dating.

If I am seeing someone, then I don't want the world to know unless it becomes a serious thing. So I appreciate them not going around to everyone who knows the two of us and talking about what we did this last week.

And regardless of how serious our relationship was, if sex is involved I don't think it's appropriate for them to be talking to their/our friends about what we did in bed last night (unless I'm there discussing with with them).

Swinging is the same thing to me. It's not a matter of trying to hide the fact that I swing anymore than it is hiding the fact that I had a date with so and so. It's just that it's no one's business and therefore they have no need to know.

[yawanna]

I was outted to my family. My brother specifically. By my disgruntled ex to HIS disgruntled ex. My full real name was also shared with about 250 people via email by disgruntled ex.

Luckily..... I've always had a wild streak to me that my family finds rather endearing and any talk of my swinging or multiple sex partners was shrugged off with an '..... and??'

Research your targets folks!!

We know people who have lost their jobs AND their families and friends when their swinging was disclosed or discovered.

I like what Julie said tho.... is sharing that information relevant? Is it none of their business? (probably).

I always thought it was generally understood in swinging that discretion was pre eminent in participating. I was shocked at first that a couple I became friends with would talk so much about other swingers to me. I appreciated quick references 'he's married and she doesn't know' for my own use and edification. But the gossip OMG.

Friendships and relationships with other swingers progress rather slowly for us because of the risks of indiscretion.
People who blab about encounters and name drop are the people we avoid.

Are respect and discretion just 'words' for some people?

[thekolonel]

My girlfriend was having a conversation with a woman about general jealousy issues. My girl, being the sweetheart she is, was actually trying to help this young woman out. Rather than keeping the conversation to herself, the woman takes it to mean that my gf was jealous of one of our play partners and she then blabs to the play partner, with predictable results. Ridiculous.

Be careful what you share, and who you share it with, especially in a circle of acquaintances.

[BradAndJanet]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
I don't think it's any different than dating.

If I am seeing someone, then I don't want the world to know unless it becomes a serious thing. So I appreciate them not going around to everyone who knows the two of us and talking about what we did this last week.

And regardless of how serious our relationship was, if sex is involved I don't think it's appropriate for them to be talking to their/our friends about what we did in bed last night (unless I'm there discussing with with them).

Swinging is the same thing to me. It's not a matter of trying to hide the fact that I swing anymore than it is hiding the fact that I had a date with so and so. It's just that it's no one's business and therefore they have no need to know.

Exactly! It's not so much the 'outing' (although for some that is a big issue, and rightly so), but what we do in the bedroom (or the kitchen, the hot tub, etc. ) with another couple really isn't anyone else's business. Even the fact that we have swung isn't necessary for anyone else to know. And that's the point for us. Why tell someone else what you've done, unless you're boasting? We don't mind saying, "Oh, yes, we've met so-and-so", but we don't kiss and tell all the details. That just doesn't seem right to us.

-B

[jen]

If someone wants the world to know his/her business, they are capable of telling it themselves. Just as if I want my business known - I should be the only one telling it.

Privacy is important for so many reasons. Discretion is needed in all aspects of life, not just swinging.

Another great thing about this board is the way it gives you the opportunity to get to know other people’s discretionary levels. You can read their posts and from them sooner or later you can determine for yourself, if they are of a discretionary level you are comfortable with. This level being different for everyone.

Find the people whose levels match yours and have fun.

[bill&sabrina]

I think that if you are worried about someone not being discrete about something you do, you shouldn't do it. That includes swinging. Before anyone tries to tell me "Oh we really check out our partners and grow to trust them totally". It is foolish to believe that anyone you play with will never blab about your encounters. The possiblilty always existis that they will betray your trust. To accept the reality of the world is accepting the notion that swinging is ammoral. Even if you are being pragmatic.
Bill

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina
Before anyone tries to tell me "Oh we really check out our partners and grow to trust them totally". It is foolish to believe that anyone you play with will never blab about your encounters.

Perhaps I am 'Pollyanna-ish' but I do believe that we have gotten to know those that we have become asscociated with, well enough to trust them totally. They have the same morals and ideals that we do. We couldn't fathom playing around with someone otherwise.

[bear_n_bunny]

My problem is that I agree with all sides of the issues. Since I don't find anything amoral, deviant or wrong with the lifestyle, I really don't care who knows I participate. The only people who would freak are my sisters and then they'd just pray for me.

However, like my more traditional sexual practices, nothing really needs to be shared because I'm not sure there is anyone who really wants to know. I rarely go to work and discuss the great sex I had with Bear the night before. So why would I share about the great sex I had with Bear and another couple?

As well, I agree with my hubby on the point of that people should not be branded by their sexuality. In reality, one can only spend so much time engaged in sex. That time is usually less than the time spent working, running errands, hanging with the kids during any given week. So why should anyone be labeled by thier sexuality; gay, bi, straight, polyamours, swingers, etc.

So I live with a don't ask, don't tell rule of thumb. I'd hate lying about it, but there is no need to share it if no one wants to know. Really, how often do you hear, "Hey, do you swing," in lunch room?

That's with the vanilla community. I must admit I worry sometimes when I'm with play friends and I'm yacking about the great sex I had with Bear, or Bear and another couple. However, if I'm going to yack about it, I try and keep the names out of it. Or if names get mentioned I try to keep the details out of it. But it is hard for me sometimes when it's pillow talk time and everyone is all comfy. Loose lips are bad and I need to watch it because no matter where you live, I don't think the swinger community is ever that large.

-- Bunny

[wrnakedru]

Quote Brit Pair:
The fact that they practice discretion does not mean that they accept that ‘swinging’ is wrong. It merely demonstrates a pragmatic acceptance of the reality of the world in general.

I agree completely! An utter lack of knowledge has never prevented judgement. [In most instances, insures it!] Only a fool would provide himself as a target for ignorance.

Quote bill & sabrina:
To accept the reality of the world is accepting the notion that swinging is ammoral. Even if you are being pragmatic.

I am unclear regarding the intended meaning of this, Bill.

I believe the populace judges swinging to be immoral. It is a judgement caused by a lack of knowledge. "Lack of knowledge" is the Websters definition for "ignorance".

Your definition of reality as acceptance that swinging is amoral is conflictive.

Webster defines "amoral" as neither moral, nor immoral; esp: being outside the sphere to which moral judgements apply.

Is it your belief the world deems swinging as something that should not or cannot be judged ?

Or is it your presentation that it is realistic to accept swinging is truly "immoral"?

I believe myself to be a "moral" person. I have "ethics", I have "standards", and I have a clear sense of "right" and "wrong."

I would not choose to include in my life anything I believed to
be "immoral".

It could be we are in agreement. It could be we are diametrically opposed.

I would be most appreciative if you would please clarify your post.

I don't know whether to hug you or scream at you.