Pathological Discretion

[Spoomonkey]

So, there we were this weekend, sitting at the kitchen table of an awesome couple who had invited us to visit them, discussing how much it stunk that we couldn't tell anyone about the great time we were having...

We couldn't tell anyone at work. I mean, we could say that we went to Reno - but when only about 10 hours of a 59 hour visit was really "water cooler worthy", and another 8 were spent sleeping, there really wasn't a whole lot we could say...

"We can't even tell our friends who swing," we moaned... And then we asked ourselves, "why?"

I mean - all we ever seem to hear about is bad experiences... Why not share the good ones too? Here we were connecting with a couple as friends and having the sort of experience that we got into swinging for...

We understand when our playmates prefer discretion, for whatever reason. We respect that. But it seemed insane to us that here we were, two couples, totally comfortable with telling our swinging friends that we were together - and we were coming up with cover stories... That after using cover stories to "sneak away".

We are hardly "anti-discretion". We have asked for it ourselves. There are times we need it just as much as anyone. We are very good about practicing it - but maybe we have gone a little too far by practicing it when no one really wants to... (?)

I titled this thread "Pathological Discretion" because that is what it is. Pathological - Of, relating to, or manifesting behavior that is habitual, maladaptive, and compulsive. So much of the lifestyle is about discretion - and that is as it should be. You should ALWAYS protect the people you play with. But, it is kind of funny when we feel so compulsive about it that we really are protecting nothing... All we are doing is following a black and white rule that simply doesn't fit.

We had a great trip - and there are so many hilarious stories that we'd love to share, but we can't because we are afraid of... Something... Or is it nothing?

Have you ever felt that "pathological discretion" can sometimes take the fun out of the lifestyle? We all realized that we were letting it do just that. So we decided that this would make a great thread and a pretty good discussion.

What are your thoughts?

Spoomonkey

PS - Mr and Mrs Good Times - thanks for showing us Reno in a way few people have probably ever seen it It is great to know that friendships on the board really are friendships - even off of it.

[michelle101]

To Hell with the discussion about "Pathological Discretion" !!! I want to hear about Reno!

[mrs good times]

As Spoomonkey said we spent time discussing this topic because we were having a great time together and wondered why we should hide it. Would we have to be careful about the way we interacted with each other on the board? Would we change the way we responded to posts because we would risk outing the fact that we spent time together? We had some experiences that would make great discussion on this board but should we feel that it is improper to post them because of discretion? Discretion is very important to all four of us but at what point is taking discretion to a ridiculous extreme?

Sure we could post without using each others log in name but we are already posting under pseudonyms, so what's the difference? While it is true that we have met other people on this board in person the four of us decided we didn't mind if they knew, so why is discretion an issue?

For example; if we all went to a football game the first thing we would do is tell our friends the next day about the fun we had at the game and include all the highlights. In everything else in life sharing the experience with others is a large part of the fun as you relive the moment in the telling. Swingers are unable to do this because they can't share with their vanilla friends and they can't share with other swingers because of "discretion". So does having to downplay your weekend or night out take some of the joy out of the experience? We decided it did and wondered if others felt the same way.

[pumpkins1970]

Dear spoomonkey, hehehe...just keep on grinning and when everybody asks why you keep smiling like that, just tell them that you're just happy to be here! Discretion is good, but you are right, dammit I'd love to tell some of the guys about some things!

Now on a more serious note, I believe it is important to keep some things to you, your S/O and those you swing with. I feel if you can just keep what happens between that small(or large) group, then the trust and friendships you build will be momentously greater than just the sex you have. A large part of a relationship is trust, whether it is between 1, 2, or many more,and without trust, there can be no friendship.


Continuing the thought on discretion and the unbelievable urge to tell someone, anyone, how about a anonymous writing in the swingers stories of your exploits, just change your name and the name of those involved!
Mr. Pump XOXO XXX

[pumpkins1970]

Yes Mrs. Goodtimes, I think it may take some of the joy and fun out, but then again"I know something they don't know!" LOL Mr Pump XOXO XXX

[txduo2000]

I agree ...


I LOVE to talk, I mean, I really LOVE to talk. I am sure many of you probably could have guessed that from my board addiction and my novel-length posts.

We ask for, and expect discretion also - to a point. I mean, if we are mingling with folks in the lifestyle, and we are meeting people in the lifestyle, several different people, what is the problem discussing experiences? I understand and totally respect not talking negatively to others and dropping names, but I don't see why we can't discuss, in casual conversation, with other like minded people, our positive experiences.

Especially when the people we know also know each other? I mean, what is the harm in saying something along the lines of "We spent the weekend with 'Joe' and 'Mary'?" when asked by another lifestyle friend, "Hey, what did you guys do last weekend?" Especially if all know each other????

When we ask for discretion, it basically means, don't talk about me with people you work with. Don't flirt if we are in a casual setting that includes vanilla friends, our children or family members. If you see me in the grocery store, don't behave in any way laciviously. If you didn't like us, and you see us at a club or party, don't point and giggle from across the room. Don't cruise around the club/party, if you did not like us, and tell everyone that you meet that we are huge losers. THAT is the kind of discretion we prefer.

But if 'Joe' and 'Mary' meet 'Tom' and 'Jane', even if 'Tom' and 'Jane' don't know us, I have NO problem with 'Joe' and 'Mary' telling them something along the lines of, "Hey, we know this great couple and they live right in your area. You guys seem like you would get along great!"

We do advertise our single male friend this way, whenever we happen across a couple. Of course, he knows this, and appreciates it. A single man's life is so difficult in this lifestyle.

I just don't see why conversations have to be so secretive WITHIN the lifestyle. Surrender

[VegasLee]

Ok, I guess I am about the most "outted" person on this board most of the time. Over the years I have posted about many experieces we have had with people but at the same time I have never "outted" anyone in the process. Not because of the fear of me being outted, that could not happen, I am OUT! Out of respect of what others "might" want.

We have met many people from this board, hell, I have seen some of ya Neked! There has been times that I have discussed things that happened with some on this board but at the same time no one here ever had a clue or was offended.

Yes, I wish we could/would all talk like we just watched a football game together and never worried about what others think about what we do. I personally do not worry about what others think of what I do.

You came up with a great subject here Sir Spoo! Glad to see others finally feeling like maybe we protect to much when it really is not needed.

Oh ya, I use my name here.... I am Lee and I am a swinger!

[SnsualPrsuasion]

Oh ya, I use my name here.... I am Lee and I am a swinger!

Sounds like we should start a support group!

Hi, I'm Dee & I'm a swinger too!

[good times]

I think that this seemed like an issue to me because all four of us are known on the board and some here even know us personally. If it had just been the Good Times for example, meeting someone anonymous and we shared some stories from that meeting, I don't think it would have presented a problem. Let’s face it; we read posts like that here every day. It seems different since we are all on here, and when we relate an experience the person reading it will know who the other party is through their presence on the board. What we decided is that we couldn't think of a rational reason why it would matter to us if other board members knew some of our thoughts about our weekend together. It would be awkward to try to add a thought to some future thread based on our experience together, while at the same time having to change the facts enough so others wouldn't be able to figure out that we were relating the same experience as the Spoomonkey's might contribute.

I have to say that were I better at conveying my thoughts with the written word, and this experience was with someone anonymous that no one here would know, I would be on here spilling my guts about my wonderful experience as soon as I could. As it is, my writing abilities pretty much suck, so while I might occasionally relate an experience we shared, I do not intend to post a blow-by-blow account of our weekend, as I could not possibly do it justice.

[fun4Ds]

well as for us newbys we have a rule ,we dont tell any vanilla friends about our activity. as for swinging friends.we still dont give out names yet.if asked if we know so and so we keep it to yes we know them , with they are great friends lots of fun ,we have diffrences or we are not compatable. we do how ever have a black list we keep of people who are dishonest ,cheaters, liars ect. we dont go into much details we kinda share that betwen us . maby we are just new but we would rather say you should contact themm,you guys would probly be a good match . we dont want to get caught in the middle as go betweens or match makers. i think this would fit in hear or i need to read the post again lol .

[EvilMJ]

Good subject, one which i was dealing with just last night.

My friend and I were chatting and when I asked her what time she left the (swingers) dance, she said "oh, 2:30..just about the time I saw you being dragged off". I wanted to tell her the whole story about the great time I had with the couple that was dragging me off. Hell, she knows them, we are all good friends, she has even played with them. Yet all I could say was it was a great time and next time I am going to make damned sure I have a room at the hotel.

It's hard to hold it all in, damn it was a great story, especially considering these were people I have been wanting to play with for a long time, and she knows it. I guess I felt that if the other couple found out I was telling people about our time together then they may get pissed and feel I was talking too much. The last thing I want to do is piss anyone off, especially when I hope to meet up with them again.

But you are right..it sucks

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Glad to see others finally feeling like maybe we protect to much when it really is not needed.

That's exactly how we all felt. In this particular case it was not needed. Everyone had a great time and we all were okay with letting people know that we went out to visit Mr and Mrs GT. This doesn't mean that we have thrown discretion out the window. We have many other friends that will remain a secret and hopefully they will all do the same for us. But this time it was a group decision....we had fun and couldn't and didn't want to hold it in.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by txduo2000

We ask for, and expect discretion also - to a point.

We ASSUME discretion. By that, I mean if it weren't discussed, we would simply default to not saying anything at all. But, for us, this felt no different, really, than a meet up. We have met the GTs, have a great relationship with them on the board, and - as Mr GT said - would probably have ended up tripping over each others posts, telling the same stories and asking the same questions.

At that point, we realized that all we were really doing was lying to our other friends for absolutely no reason at all.

The swinging culture in Reno is radically different than it is here. I have a lot of questions and potential threads that I would have not been able to post if I had held on to (in this case) needless discretion.

Originally Posted by txduo2000

When we ask for discretion, it basically means, don't talk about me with people you work with. Don't flirt if we are in a casual setting that includes vanilla friends, our children or family members. If you see me in the grocery store, don't behave in any way laciviously.

That is a GREAT point! We actually discussed this. When we were all just out walking around town, we could have been any two random couples on the planet. For us, we were a five hour flight away from home. We were never going to see many of these people again. We could have been as crazy as we wanted to be.

But we had to remind ourselves that this was GTs home town. So we tried not to embarrass them... I am not sure we totally succeeded, but at the same time, it wasn't by groping them in public

Spoomonkey

[savannah_bi_fem]

For us, the level of discretion totally depends on the situation. #1, never divulge any of it to the vanilla community, least of all, names. And like somebody said, we see each other in public later on, we keep each other's cover.

But within the swing community, it just depends. Let's say you you're in a small swing community, such as members of a club, where people will ask, "Oh, you know so-and-so! What do you think of them?" We keep it discreet and tasteful (as somebody here already mentioned) - very nice couple, wonderful company, things along that line. I think it's always in bad taste to question somebody on whether you had sex with someone, how they were, etc. But, we hear that all the time in the swing community. We just avoid answering direct questions like that.

If we met or talked to a new couple and friends of ours in their area we think they'd really like come to mind, we'd never give them a "referral" or play matchmaker, unless we first asked the couple we knew if they would want us to refer this new couple to them. It's their prerogative to determine for themselves if they're interested, or not. They don't need my unsolicited help, kwim?

Example: We got very put off not too long ago by a single man with whom we'd only met a couple of times at a meet-and-greet, nothing more. But, he really wanted to get with us (me, actually). He emailed one day saying he was with a couple of married women who he thought would be great for me, he told them all about me, and wanted to set something up between us. He told them he was trying to set something up with me and them (and of course, himself). Hubby and I were furious - this guy was pimping me out! Creep. So, I wrote him a polite but very pointed email telling him that we weren't interested, we preferred to find our own partners, thank-you-very-much. We won't have anything to do with him again.

Another risk to couples who kiss-and-tell, is being with a couple that seems like fun early on, but later they turn out to be not cool, maybe they've offended some people in your circle, or for whatever reason they just turn out to be turning people off. Maybe you don't even want to be with them later on, after you know them better. If everyone learns you were with "them", it could shed a bad light on you.

Someplace here, I recently read a thread about the certifications on Swing Lifestyle. A lot of people said they looked at who people were with (or in contact with), and would use that info to judge whether they wanted to be with them, or not. If their friends/contacts looked unsavory in any way, people would reject the couple they might have otherwise wanted to meet. Sometimes, TMI can backfire.

[Dr Jekyll]

I almost feel it is a non-issue in your case. If there were one of you who had a need for discretion, then the group must respect that, but since all 4 of you have already said it's fine, what's the problem?

The only issue that there may be is with how much is shareable... Some things happen that is best not shared by anyone other than the person it happened to. Or there may something in the details that is sensitive to one person, but may not appear that way to another. So there might still be a need for some level of discretion, even though the overall experience does not require it. Then again, going by what I know of the 4 of you, I'm fairly certain you'd go out of your way not to post something personal in any case...