I don't even know what to title this - jealousy rant?

[serenandsol]

Hi there,

I haven't posted here much...but we're getting into the lifestyle bit by bit. I had another thread previously about getting my husband to talk more and open up about this. Well it worked and boy are the floodgates open!

The reason for my questions is that I am clear on the distinctions between poly and swinging..but don't know where I lie. We are married and have two children. I don't want extra parents or a group home where there is a third partner that we both love.

I would love to have a friend with benefits to help me explore my more dominant side. I like being dominated by my mate a bit, but I wouldn't enjoy it with other men...I don't think. I am still exploring this mentally. it's something new.

Sol's sexual preferences are very different from mine as far as women. He loves big breasts...huge (what guy doesn't ). I know that's his fetish and I'm not well endowed...which I am fine with. I love my breasts. They fit me just fine. I am not super attracted to any of the women that he's taken notice in...but I am fine with him swinging alone. It would please me to have him pleased. I'd rather him have fun than me be stuck in a 3 way or 4 way with someone I don't find sexy.

However, it seems that even though I've expressed this to him, it doesn't go both ways. I brought up the idea of poly, which I perceived to have more of a friends with benefits bent than swinging (I've since done more reading and have been corrected). He agreed that it would be fun to explore so we, on suggestion of a poly friend, set up separate profiles on OKCupid. It was fun! I enjoyed the flirting with a few men that "matched" me...but Sol wasn't having any luck. Most of the poly identified women on the site were all about women and not men.

So after a rant by him last night about our poly mutual friend and how "they are just in it for the sex but are pretending they aren't" I suggested we shut down the OkCupid activity. He was cool with it. So we did.

Since I gave him the greenlight, he's been flirting with an old friend with Facebook, our poly friend, some random porn star that he knows from a long time ago. I am not jealous of them...but I know that if I did the same thing he'd be an insecure and whining mess.

It doesn't feel fair. I feel like it's all about him and his wants...

I was feeling sad today about this and a little jealous of his texting...I realized it wasn't about the texting it was that I had lost all of my flirting contacts while he kept his (all of mine were on OKCupid).

Also, I realized that I was sad because I feel like it would be easier for me to attract someone through the friends with benefits vein than the straight up swinger vein. I am working on losing weight and I don't feel ready to jump into bed with someone yet. I think developing a friendly connection first would be better for me.

So in short, I guess I just don't know where to go from here...I don't want him to stop doing what he's doing, I'd just like to reduce the double standard.

[funat40]

I think "jealousy rant" is an appropriate title. It seems that you are jealous of your husband for getting what he wants out of the lifestyle (a partner with big breasts who is interested only in sex), while you are having difficulty getting what you want (a FWB relationship with a dominant woman.)

I can relate to this, because I'm in a very similar situation with my wife. While we're both technically allowed to play with others outside of our marriage, her options will always be WILDLY more expansive than mine. Realistically, I will probably never have that opportunity, while she could take advantage of that opportunity daily (or several times a day!) if she chose to do so.

So, I have two choices: 1) I can deny her the opportunity to explore her sexuality in the interest of "fairness", or 2) I can live vicariously through her experiences and simply appreciate her happiness.

Just because one spouse gets more enjoyment out of an experience than the other, it doesn't mean it's "unfair." It's not a contest, and no one should be keeping score. The bottom line is that you and your partner are happy.

That said, it does sound as if there are some issues with you and your husband that need to be addressed. If either of you is uncomfortable with your situation (and it sounds as if you have some misgivings), then you should stop what you're doing immediately and talk about it until you come to some conclusion that's agreeable for you both. Otherwise, you're just asking for trouble down the road.

[serenandsol]

Thank you so much for your feedback...I just wanted to clarify that I'm interested in men, not women. Sorry if that was not clear. Rereading my post I can see why there was that confusion. The people I was flirting with on OKC were men. I have plenty of options but feel like I'm restricted because he's expressed jealousy of other men before.

I guess I'm coming from the perspective of, "I say it's okay for you to play, but whenever I bring up playing, you get possessive." That is where the fairness comes in.

The different preferences in women come into play when we're looking at profiles on Swing Lifestyle and things. The couples he wants to contact are very different from the couples I want to contact, based on the women. While I'm only mildly bi, I still would rather be in a 4 way with someone who I find attractive, if that makes sense.

[Alura]

If you enjoy flirting, Cutie, you've come to the right place.

The jealousy issue needs to be resolved before y'all swing, in my opinion. Keep opening the floodgates; talk about everything. Y'all will get there. Overall, you have the right attitude.

Alura

[lustylearning]

Hmmm. I hate to say this, but you letting him play probably isn't going decrease his jealousy.

[serenandsol]

@Alura - Thank you...you're right. Talking is the way to solve this. Already had a good talk this afternoon after I published this. Posting here helps me clear my head, but I guess I've answered my own question.

@lustylearning - Don't hate to say it! It's totally true.

So update after the talk....it was all in my head, sort of. Listen up newbies like me....talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. I can't stress that enough. Just talking about doing this has opened up so many parts of our relationship and brought us closer.

I realize I look like a psycho now...lol.

Thank you all for your feedback. On to more talking!!!

[Coupleerotic22]

If I read your OP correctly, and I am not sure I am, you want two very different things.

You want a poly male, a triad of sorts, were your spouse is primary and poly is secondary.

Your spouse wants a more "traditional" swinging relationship (talk about an oxymoron! lol).

I can certainly see how there would be jealousy on both sides. Here is how I see your two positions. (correct me if I am wrong).

Form his perspective:
What you want includes emotional attachment, basically a second spouse. That would freak out a great many mates in the LS. Sharing you with others for sex is one thing, sharing your love, the emotional attachment, is a whole other matter, particularly since you are fairly new to the LS. It can take a long time for some couples to deal with the jealousy of sex, let alone emotions, if they are ever able to deal with it.

From your perspective:
It is going to be easier for him to find what he wants (sex) than what you want (love). From what I have seen, and I could be wrong, there is just far more people into swinging than ploy. This can be frustrating as he continues to find playmates and you search for a lover.

As it has been stated, continuing to talk through this is the best course of action.

Some things to think about.

• Is your desire for poly precluding you from wanting to swing with him (3some, 4some or moresome)?
  
• If you want him to be secure with poly, you must reinforce the fact that you love him more than anyone else.
  
• Is poly what you are REALLY looking for. Poly is a loving relationship, very much like a spouse OR are you wanting to swing, but with a closer relationship than casual sex. Again two very different things.
  
• Leaving poly out of this for a moment, is his expectation that he can play and you can't? If so you are not even in the same book, let alone the same page. That is unreasonable. Swinging is about what both partners want, not just one. Or is he okay with you playing in a swinging situation, just having issues with poly?
  
• Is there a middle ground that can make both of you happy? Can you two swing together, looking for people that are more than one night stands, as you continue to seek your poly mate?
  
• Once you have a poly mate, are you still going to be willing to swing with your spouse? If not that could be another reason for his angst. Once you are out of the equation for swinging, he is, effectively playing as a single male. Which mean his play opportunities will drop drastically.

Double standard? That is tough, because you seem to want very different things. If he is okay with you swinging, but is not with poly, then I don't see it as a double stand per se, because of the emotional/love issues of poly. On the flip side, if you are only wanting him to play within a poly relationship of your choosing, then that could also be seen as a double standard.

First and foremost:

• You two must you both must completely understand what the other wants (as best as you can, it's possible to not fully understand what you want yourself)
• If you are both okay with what the other wants (i.e. it won't damage your marriage)
• Then figure out how you can both get what you want with out hurting your marriage.

The only way to do that is to communicate, being totally honest with yourself (as he must with himself) then be total honest with each other.

By total honesty I mean each of you have to put everything on the table, hold nothing back AND the other has to listen and not pre-judge with others intentions. You can certainly disagree, but if you do, then you need to get to the bottom of why you do in a clam and caring manner.

Total honesty is a huge hurdle for some to overcome, it took us almost 20 years to get to that point. It is not about lies as much as holding back out of fear of what the other will think. Or holding back on what you want to ask because you are afraid of the answer.

Holding back is a conditioned response. Not telling lies, is easy, not holding back can be very difficult if you think you are going to hear something you don't like.

To me jealousy and holding back go hand in hand. Jealousy stems out of fear of what might happen, so does holding back. If you can start the process of being COMPLETELY open and honest, I think you will find your jealousy starts to dissolve away, or that swinging and poly may not work for your relationship, OR worst case, you find out you don't have the relationship you thought you had.

In any case, good luck, I hope it all works out well for you.

[serenandsol]

Thank you so much for your detailed feedback. I've tried to answer the questions below. Just to clear things up, I'm not poly but perceived it to be more involved than swinging, which is something we both wanted, but I like the way you have described that type of swinging in your questions below. I don't want a mate...I just wanted an opportunity to explore what I'm into which I felt wasn't being heard or respected.

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

[LIST][*]Is your desire for poly precluding you from wanting to swing with him (3some, 4some or moresome)?

Not sure if it's actually a desire for poly, but a desire to have a friend with benefits...and his desire to have a friend with benefits. I am very interested in a 3some, 4some, moresome with my mate...but there are some women that I'm just not that into that he is attracted to. In those particular instances, if he wanted to, I'd rather him just swing separately or not at all.

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

[*]Is poly what you are REALLY looking for. Poly is a loving relationship, very much like a spouse OR are you wanting to swing, but with a closer relationship than casual sex. Again two very different things.

Thank you for defining this because this is where I've been getting confused. I had assumed swinging was all just casual sex (which is fine...it is nice to do on occasion) but what we both want is a closer relationship with swinging. I had looked into poly because I didn't think that existed in swinging at all. But the emphasis on triad and spouse-like attachment in poly did not appeal to me. Thus we stopped our OKCupid site activity since it was not leading where we wanted it to. But then this left me with no outlet, since all his flirtations were off site.

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

[*]Leaving poly out of this for a moment, is his expectation that he can play and you can't? If so you are not even in the same book, let alone the same page. That is unreasonable. Swinging is about what both partners want, not just one. Or is he okay with you playing in a swinging situation, just having issues with poly?

I felt that his expectation was us playing or him playing but not me playing. Since the initial post we have talked extensively, and I've realized that he was concerned about poly,...however, I have a specific fetish that I want to explore that is not his thing...I felt like I was being prevented from that. Now that he understands it's about the preference (which he is not into at all) and not love (which was never a part of it in my mind) he is encouraging.

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

[*]Is there a middle ground that can make both of you happy? Can you two swing together, looking for people that are more than one night stands, as you continue to seek your poly mate?

No poly mate involved so this isn't an issue. We are planning on swinging together, but I welcome him to explore his own specific fetish alone and I want the same. Since we've talked more he realized it's more about the fetish and not about the relationship.

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

First and foremost:

• You two must you both must completely understand what the other wants (as best as you can, it's possible to not fully understand what you want yourself)
• If you are both okay with what the other wants (i.e. it won't damage your marriage)
• Then figure out how you can both get what you want with out hurting your marriage.

The only way to do that is to communicate, being totally honest with yourself (as he must with himself) then be total honest with each other.

By total honesty I mean each of you have to put everything on the table, hold nothing back AND the other has to listen and not pre-judge with others intentions. You can certainly disagree, but if you do, then you need to get to the bottom of why you do in a clam and caring manner.

Total honesty is a huge hurdle for some to overcome, it took us almost 20 years to get to that point. It is not about lies as much as holding back out of fear of what the other will think. Or holding back on what you want to ask because you are afraid of the answer.

Holding back is a conditioned response. Not telling lies, is easy, not holding back can be very difficult if you think you are going to hear something you don't like.

To me jealousy and holding back go hand in hand. Jealousy stems out of fear of what might happen, so does holding back. If you can start the process of being COMPLETELY open and honest, I think you will find your jealousy starts to dissolve away, or that swinging and poly may not work for your relationship, OR worst case, you find out you don't have the relationship you thought you had.

In any case, good luck, I hope it all works out well for you.

This is a really good point - a lot of people think that lying is just not telling the truth but leaving things out is a form of a lie as well. I think that today with our talks I've learned that being specific is very, very important.

[Coupleerotic22]

It sounds like you guys are talking it through, which is great. I am glad you cleared up the poly thing, sorry for the misunderstanding.

As for an outlet for you. There are a number of good sites out there. Swinglifestyle.com (Swing Lifestyle for short) is a good one. I understand you can have some luck with adultfriendfinder.com as well. Benaughty.com is another.

As a woman who wants to play single AND has her spouses blessing, you should have no problem finding plenty of potential playmates on those sites. If you don't already have one, start a profile on Swing Lifestyle and be clear about what you want. If you already have one together, you might want to start one as a solo play profile and mention it in your couple profile. I have seen that on a few profiles.

Wanting to be friends with playmates is not at all uncommon and you will find many who feel the same way.

Being a woman that is willing to play solo will get a lot of attention and you soon will be covered up with single men, couples looking for a third or married males that play solo.

Just be specific about your desires, take your time to find the right ones and be on the look out for fakes (ex. married men cheating), and you should have a great response. Take some time and read the forums on different aspects of playing solo, weeding out fakes and other related topics. There is a wealth of knowledge on these boards. If you can't find a topic you are looking for don't hesitate to post a new topic.

Bon chance!!

[sexcupid]

I will just toss this out there as well.

serenandsol: awesome that you have cleared up some misunderstandings (in definition as well as with your hubby ).

I have a SF friend that has recently experienced quite a bit of frustration with guys she is meeting from AFF (this is the primary site she uses). What she is looking for is what I think I am reading that you looking for...someone (or several someones) that you can be comfortable with and have repeated sexual encounters and be "friends".

And it is hard to find a rotation like that. I had one a few years ago and it was all guys I knew from work (in was a big company) and yes picking playmates from work is usually a no-no...but I was younger and dumber than before I started reading the SB. But I will say it gave me/us time to kind of feel out interest and flirt for a while before anything sexual happened (like quite literally years in a couple of cases).

Many people in the LS are about having sex...the frustration my friend feels with the single guys she's been meeting is that they tell her they are also interested in a friends w/benefits arrangement...they fuck, leave, and are never heard from again. So they tell her what she wants to hear to get what they want... shocking I know. Seriously though, be wary of this. There are more couples in the LS that want to be friends first.

Also...even if your hubby prefers huge breasts...you have stated that you don't have them, so obviously he is capable of being attracted to a woman without them. Are his objections on the couples you find promising strictly to do with how big the other woman's boobs are? However, swinging is about being able to sometimes have what we can't have at home and its not like you are trying to pick a lifepartner so other "redeeming qualities" that might otherwise be considered really don't have to be...it can strictly be about what attracts you. If you are only mildly bi, that would lead me to believe that playing with the other female is not a requirement. So when looking at profiles, why not concentrate on what the male of the couple looks like, if he is to your liking?

There have been quite a few couples we have played with (all 4 of us in the same room or somewhere close to each other) where I have not been attracted to the lady...but guess what, I didn't care b/c I was there to primarily play with the guy and my SO was into her and that's all that mattered because I had someone to play with that I was interested in as well.

Awesome job on continuing the communication with your hubby

[serenandsol]

@Coupleerotic22 - Thank you for the leads! I hadn't heard of a few of those sites.

@sexcupid - Thank you so much for the insights on swinging separately...it's definitely something I am glad is on the table, and that it's in the future. I will definitely keep these things in mind.

My objections to the couples he has chosen is that the wife is not attractive and the husband is not attractive either. And there have been times he's found someone on Swing Lifestyle that I think are both cute, but then says the husband looks like a jackass..but I think he looks fine.

Oh well..baby steps! As you said...we're not finding a life partner, and it's not something that's going to happen immediately. Just gotta keep looking, looking...and talking and talking.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by serenandsol

My objections to the couples he has chosen is that the wife is not attractive and the husband is not attractive either. And there have been times he's found someone on Swing Lifestyle that I think are both cute, but then says the husband looks like a jackass..but I think he looks fine.

Just for clarification: For the couples he finds attractive...he is attracted to the female correct? And on a few occasions he has picked couples where you find the male acceptable...and then he says the guy looks like a jackass? Exactly what does that look like?

When looking for couples, what exactly do you want. Are you wanting bi activity or not? And if you aren't, then why does it matter if you find the woman attractive as long as your hubby does? Also feel free to tell me to shut up if I'm being too nosy. lol

[Coupleerotic22]

Originally Posted by serenandsol

My objections to the couples he has chosen is that the wife is not attractive and the husband is not attractive either.

You both need to be happy with the choice, otherwise someone is taking one for the team, and thats generally not a good idea, at least not for long.

We each find profiles we like, then sit down and look at them together and decide if they are a couple we would both be interested in. I don't care what the male looks like, as long as she likes him and vice versa.

Originally Posted by serenandsol

I think are both cute, but then says the husband looks like a jackass..but I think he looks fine.

Looks like a jackass?!?! I hope you mean with ears and a tail, otherwise how the hell can you know what someones personality is from a photo.

Unless they have their personality traits tattooed all over themselves there is no way to tell what kind of person they are from a photo.

Could "jackass" be code for "he looks better than me"? If so you have some insecurity issues to deal with. IF not he needs to lighten up, how would he feel if people were determining his personality based strictly on a photo?

[CandLinPC]

First off, great job increasing communication between you two. There can never ever ever be too much communication in "ze lifeztyle". Just a couple of thoughts from the BS artist here.

-Regularly take time to define and explain in fine detail what a word or phrase means to you. DO THIS OFTEN. "Looks like a jackass" could mean anything from "Looks like he has a bigger dick than me" to "This guy creeps me out, I don't want him anywhere near my wife." One is a jealousy issue, the other is a perfectly legitimate safety concern, and what he really means could be anywhere in between. If you are a B cup, "Huge boobs" could mean D, or, you know, F,G,H.

-Just because a couple's profile says she's bi doesn't mean you have to play with her. If g/g is a must, they usually say that explicitly in one of the essay answers. Just make sure your orientation is stated accurately, whatever it may be, and they should be able to read that and get the picture.

-Are you letting looks get in the way? My wife and I recently went to our first on-premise club. I am 305, she is 285; she was kissed by a 115 lb woman who was attracted to her. We learned from experience that attitude/personality usually trumps looks by a fair margin, and in fact, some of the 'hotter' people are bigger jerks than you would imagine. On the internet, we can be shallow easily. Is attractiveness the first criteria for your vanilla friends? If you want friends with or without benefits, take the time to meet a few of these people, and maybe you might find your best friend forever, even though they may not be (I'm exaggerating) underwear models.

-If you are looking for "friends", make hobbies, activities and general interests some of your main criteria. Make sure that you are interested in the same things. If they love movies, but hate camping. And you could care less about movies and love camping, they may not be the best match for you.

In summary, talk, talk, talk, talk. Talk some more. Look at more than looks. Talk more. Talk even more. Talk until you are sick of talking, then talk a little more.

Oh, and don't forget. This is supposed to be FUN!

[sweet_tna]

Glad ya'll are opening up the lines of communication. That's a great start. Now you need to work on being more specific about what you want. What does, "He looks like a jackass," mean to him? That would be my response if my hubby said that to me about someone whose profile we were perusing.

And I have to echo the other posters here, that if you aren't particularly looking for a bi encounter, why should it matter whether you find the other woman attractive? If you're playing with her, it matters a LOT, of course. Otherwise, your only concern should be whether you are attracted to the male half. If you're worried about the female half of a bi couple expecting play just because she's bi, you shouldn't. Unless they state in their profile (or in person) that their main goal in swinging is to pursue bi encounters, then you have every reason to expect that bi play is optional.

Obviously, if either of you are attracted to the half of the couple with whom you'd be playing, you should take a pass on them. This is one of the frustrating realities of the lifestyle. It is tough to find a four-way attraction, but it does happen. Mr. Sweet and I enjoy meeting folks at parties/Meet & Greets for this very reason. You can find out pretty quickly if you're really attracted to someone, and they to you. And if you are, you're already in a setting where you can do something about it!

Hopefully you two can figure out what you both want out of the lifestyle and make it work for you.

=)