how to suggest "just sex" with a friend?

Hello,

First of all, let me just say I'm a mid-twenties male, I've been in a very committed relationship with my girlfriend of 6 years, and we are both starting out in the lifestyle. We've talked extensively about what boundaries we want, and we have mutually-agreed on open swinging as the level we're comfortable with (in fact, in the first conversation we had, we both admitted to one another that the thought of the other sleeping with someone else is incredibly erotic.)

My girlfriend has already started sleeping with secondary partners and to be honest, I'm incredibly aroused by it; especially when she fills me in with all the details about how they fuck her.

I want to find secondary partners too (and she's been encouraging me to) but I haven't gotten the nerve to ask anyone yet. The problem is that I'm not sure how to bring it up.

I have a bisexual friend that I'm visiting for a few days next week and we flirt alot but I don't know how to let her know it's "ok" to play....

Any suggestions?

Sincerely,
Newbie-Stewie

[JustNTerested]

What I would suggest is just bringing up the topic at hand and go from there. If she is bi-sexual, then start asking her questions and let the conversation carry itself and lead up to it. She may need reassurance that it's okay but also remember, don't do anything that will mess the friendship up and make sure you both have an understanding of what you want. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Newpants]

Ummm, someone has to break this to you, but you are in for an uphill battle here and it's going to be pretty tough for you.

As you have already experienced, her opportunitys are going to be endless and easy. Many guys would love nothing more than to find some little honey that only wants some cock and nothing more from them. 20-something women on the otherhand just don't work that way.

Lemme put it this way, if your GF approaches some guy and asks if he would like to be her FWB/FB and get together for "just sex", he will likely drop to his knees and thank the Good Lord for this special gift. If you approach a woman and enquire about a "just sex" arriangement you may get your face slapped.

Now don't misunderstand me, there is a whole lotta fucking going on in the world, you just can't use the words "just sex" around women very often and not get their dander up.

Women want their own guy and they don't want to be a sperm depository on the side for some guy with a steady GF just so he can get a little extra poontang. If you approach women asking them to be your sperm depository on the side so you can tell your girlfriend all about it and get her all hot and bothered it just ain't gonna go over very well.

Honestly, you'd have more luck picking up drunk chicks in bars that just broke up with their boyfriends by either pretending to be completely single or by pretending to be cheating behind your girlfriends back.

Another thing you could try is to have your GF approach this bi friend of yours with you and possibly getting a 3-way out of the deal.

I'm afraid getting a 20-something gal to voluntarily agree upfront to be a fuck-buddy on the side for some guy who has a steady GF that he isn't planning on leaving just isn't very realistic.

-Girls will bang single guys.

- Girls will bang guys with girlfriends that they are cheating on.

- A very few girls will bang guys with their girlfriends in a 3-way as long as they get to do some carpet-munching too.

But getting a girl to bang a guy that is in a steady relationship with a gal that he isn't planning on (or pretending to ) leave just isn't part of the design specifications of most women. Even the nastiest, most promiscuous slut in town will get offended if you approach her to be your side action when you are in a steady and happy relationship with someone else.

[bbarnsworth]

I tried to give Newpants' post a positive rating and couldn't; had to spread some ratings around before doing so on a post of Newpants' again.

Newpants is right.

This isn't to say your quest is impossible. It isn't. It's to say that it will be much harder for you to find willing women than it is for your girlfriend to find willing men. Your opportunities are going to be considerably less, no matter how hard you try, how good looking you are, how great in bed you are, how much your girlfriend wants you to. That's just reality.

If that's a reality you can't accept, you're going to need to rethink your swinging options. For my part, I'm very happy when my wife finds partners. I've yet to find a single woman to play with myself. That's fine with me. If such a situation is not fine with you, you might want to consider playing with couples only.

[SecretAsianMan]

Ok... How to find a female "fuck-buddy" ??

Finding a gal who'll understand your swinger-lifestyle is usually much easier within the lifestyle itself.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by SecretAsianMan

Ok... How to find a female "fuck-buddy" ??

Finding a gal who'll understand your swinger-lifestyle is usually much easier within the lifestyle itself.

That's kind of a trick answer to a nontrick question.

It may be easier to find a gal who "understands" the swinger-lifestyle from within the lifestyle but they will be so few in numbers and so overbooked that it would actually be easier to find an actual fuck-buddy from outside the lifestyle...confusing I know

My experiences and the experiences of many other people that have shared their experiences on this and several other forums have been that about the hardest place to find a female fuck buddy have in fact been on swinger sites and in swinger clubs and venues. That's not saying they aren't there or that it's impossible, just that it is much easier out in normal life outside of the lifestyle.

In otherwords vanilla women in vanilla settings far outnumber legitimate SFs in lifestyle and are often easier to bed than SFs from within the lifestyle. that seems counterintuitive but it really isn't.

So yes, the tiny population of women in the LF may "understand" the situation a little better but they are so few in numbers and so overbooked with other people looking for fuck buddys it may be a wash at best.

[LikeMinds321]

Hi Newbie-Stewie,

Welcome!

More couples in their 20s are swinging, so you and your girlfriend are not alone. Just in the past month we've had a number of couples in your age group join the Board, so I hope you will register and get involved here, too.

Some guys don't have much luck swinging and they want you to think you won't either.

You'll never know how you'll do until you give it a go. SecretAsianMan is single, experienced, and has given some great advice on the Swingers Board. He offered a good suggestion.

As far as how to approach your friend, since you say you already flirt alot with each other, that's a big plus. Flirt some more when you see her next, and when the moment feels right (and you have adequate privacy) bring up the subject of how you and your girlfriend are now open to "friends with benefits" and it's been great fun for you both. See how she responds, build the conversation based on her responses. Ask her what she knows about swinging, and tell her you're learning more about it.

Being good, flirty friends for some time, she could be hoping for a day like this with you.

I would suggest NOT trying to have sex with her on this next meeting. Instead, give her something to go home thinking about. A woman can become very turned on by thinking of the possibilities. Leave her wanting more.

Good luck! And I hope you register so you can come back and let us know how things go.

LM

[Newpants]

I misread your original question. I thought you were asking in general how to go about finding other women to play with on the side. I missed that the main jist of your question was how to approach your one friend specifically about it.

Have you considered taking your GF with you and approaching your friend as a couple for a 3-some? The best way for her to know that your GF is ok with it is to have it come from your GF's mouth herself and besides with both of you there she gets 2 for 1 As a couple you can double her pleasure.

From there you can both let your friend know that it is OK if you have a FWB/FB relationship with her with either your GF present or not.

She may go for it, she may not, but at least you made an honest goodfaith attempt.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

Some guys don't have much luck swinging and they want you to think you won't either.

LM

Yowza! Maybe I had that one coming for sounding so rough but I do think there were some important points to be made.

We have all had our own successes and failures in the lifestyle as well as in the vanilla dating world but I do think it is important that certain realities of the world are addressed. One of those realities is that women have pretty much unlimited access to sex outside of traditional relationships (whether they actually want that sex or enjoy it once they get it is a whole other matter LOL)

However many normal decent guys face many challenges when striking out to find "just sex" especially if they are in an established and satisfying relationship. Even rock stars, celebrities, pro athletes and the rich and famous have paid very high prices for "just sex" ie Tiger Woods, Jesse James, Charlie Sheen etc etc (a little offtopic I know but the point is valid)

There are always exceptions and one can always find those exceptions if looking hard enough but it is rare that many women jump at the chance to have "just sex" with a man already in an established relationship and in a relationship to which he states he will not abandon.

If a woman approaches a man and says her husband/BF is cool with her having sex with him, he'll say "GREAT!" and off they will go without any further questions.

When a man approaches a woman and says it's ok with his wife/GF to have sex with him, she'll often think that is even weirder and more sick and perverted than a guy trying to cheat and at least with a cheater she will think she may end up with him in the end (No prize I know, but there are some sad people out there)

I have known active swingers that hook-up with dozens and dozens of different people a year that get very defensive and offended when the topic of "just sex" gets brought up. Even many swingers get sqeemish when the topic of sex without some form of "friendship" or greater relationship gets mentioned.

My intent was not to discourage the OP nor to make him think that success is out of reach. My intent was to point out that "just sex" is a whole different ballgame for men than it is for women, especially for men in an established and functional relationship.

[SecretAsianMan]

In regards to finding gals for "just sex" - it's certainly not like the quest for the holy grail. It's comes down to exactly how specific (picky) you are about partners.

In regards to meeting partners in the Lifestyle:

As a single guy in the lifestyle, I've found great success with many of the local swinger-groups in my area (most of them have Yahoo-Groups or other such bulletin-board type pages). I introduce myself... interact with the people on the group with respect & treat everyone as well as I expect to be treated. I *flirt*. I support those people who're going through hard times... laugh with those who're sharing a good time. I basically make myself into a "known entity" within those groups.

... attending "Meet-n-Greets" or other social-/non-play events is also a great ice-breaker. Some of these turn into "play-events" afterward ... but that's totally dependent on how well you've interacted with the folk at the event.

I never walk into an event EXPECTING to have sex - that is the most sure-fire way you're going to feel frustrated and angry and do/say something stupid. Like... standing around with your dick out and propositioning every gal who walks by... "YES, I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN THIS!!"

Be friendly. Be open & welcoming... (sitting by yourself in a corner and not talking to anyone isn't going to be perceived as "friendly or wanting company"). Talk to people. Don't just interact with those people who immediately make you horny - talk to EVERYONE and be a good person. (Even someone whom you weren't initially attracted to can turn out to be someone who'll blow your mind once ya get together) Don't judge books by their covers.

Know that *most* of the people you're going to meet aren't necessarily "Ken & Barbie"-types.... and be comfortable with that.

Since you're in your 20's ... most of the people you'll meet at events are going to be older than you. (Are you comfortable with that?)

I've been doing this for more than ten years... and I've established some GREAT friendships with some of the folk I've met throughout the years. We've become friends ... and sometimes we get together & have sex. But the friendship is the core of my relationship with them.

Now... this is just how *I've* done it. This certainly isn't the only way.


Also... how much experience have you had with non-monogamous dating? (A *lot* of younger folk have never done this... they jump from one monogamous relationship to the next (serial-monogamy) and immediately cast all their eggs into a single-basket with each dating experience) This is a whole different topic / discussion which I could spend HOURS ranting about... so instead of hijacking this thread, I'll just say... it's something to think about.

[couplers]

Hi, this is Petra. Hubby and I are in a similar situation (I have one guy on the side), and the way we (note - WE) get women for hubby is that I recruit. It is a numbers game, but every qualified (meaning non-work, non-family, post-pubescent, premenopausal, attractive) female friend and acquaintance is a candidate. We will both take her out and treat her well, but I am the one that moves along any hint of interest. Hubby is an attractive guy, and if a woman compliments me on him, I move it along. By taking small steps we eventually talk about sex, talk about hubby, talk about sex and hubby. Then if it gets that far, I take that one last small step and say that hubby finds you attractive/sexy as well and it's OK if you two do it. I never rush it; it can take months. Women seem to like this approach better on two levels. First, it is another woman asking, not a man, so there is empathy. Second, by having the wife involved from the very beginning there is no question that he is doing this behind my back (and makes clear that this is just fun, not a hubby looking to dump wife for the right girl situation.)


The question is what your girlfriend would think of doing all of this work. I really enjoy it, even the ones that don't make it all the way. It has worked out for us four times since we started, and have been serial, long-term, lasting relationships. Even after it stopped we have remained good friends, even with one now having a husband and the two others in committed relationships. The fourth is our current and "steady" girlfiend, so I haven't been recruiting for a while.


Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Coupleerotic22]

Love the technique couplers. One thing I find strange, and maybe the ladies can address this, is I can have a women interested knowing I am married, but the second she finds out the wife is OK with it, its like flipping a switch, interest fades. I don't bring the wife up on a first meeting unless she does or is wanting move fast. But after a few conversations, that have gone well, I do. Boom, the conversations end. They are OK with me cheating, just not the wife knowing?!?

As for the OP, I meet women in normal everyday places. The grocery store is a great place. It is easy to flirt, start a conversation, even get a number. Aside from what I mentioned above about wife knowing being a turn off, it is a great place to meet beautiful women. So is the gym, and talking about staying in shape improves sex life is a bit easier too. Flirt, just like you were dating. If you see a women looking and smiling, smile back, approach her. See what happens.

[couplers]

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

One thing I find strange, and maybe the ladies can address this, is I can have a women interested knowing I am married, but the second she finds out the wife is OK with it, its like flipping a switch, interest fades. I don't bring the wife up on a first meeting unless she does or is wanting move fast. But after a few conversations, that have gone well, I do. Boom, the conversations end. They are OK with me cheating, just not the wife knowing?!?

.

This is Perta, Couplers, again. Obviously being the wife initiating things, I haven't encountered your situation. But I can say that there are many women with "issues" out there. Some are looking to pry away a good catch from the woman who caught him. Hubby says those give the sign by dissing the wife from the first hello. Some like the thrill of making a guy cheat. Who knows; even if a girl is receptive, if there are any strange signals being given off, we pass.

Our approach is to make her feel very comfortable before making any overtures. Take her out and treat her both just me and as a couple, have her over to our house, take her on vacation ("We have to pay for the place anyway, so why don't you join us?"). As I said, it is a numbers game when fishing in the vanilla world. We are very patient, never pushy, and if it doesn't lead to sex then we still have had some good times with some wonderful women. If it does lead to sex, we want it to be as much her idea as ours and for her to feel the desire as much as we do. I guess people that are in a hurry can go to a club. We prefer the slow, getting to know you route.

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

Love the technique couplers. One thing I find strange, and maybe the ladies can address this, is I can have a women interested knowing I am married, but the second she finds out the wife is OK with it, its like flipping a switch, interest fades. I don't bring the wife up on a first meeting unless she does or is wanting move fast. But after a few conversations, that have gone well, I do. Boom, the conversations end. They are OK with me cheating, just not the wife knowing?!?

Welcome to one of the biggest double standards in the swinging world. For some reason, people are more comfortable with the idea of you cheating than (Heaven forbid!) your spouse knowing you're having sex with others. This is quite probably due to the mindset that you're only supposed to have sex with your spouse/SO once you're married/in a committed relationship, and people simply cannot process thoughts beyond that. Ergo, it must be wrong.


Not to be sexist, but it seems to bother more women than men, most likely because women tend to be more emotional about sex.


As for the OP's question, Secret Asian Man has already given some great advice.

=)

[SecretAsianMan]

I really like the idea of having your g/f help you with this process...

It lets them know you're on the "up-and-up" and aren't cheating on her (something everyone is wary of when you tell them y'all are allowed to play with others outside of your relationship) ... although, as we've heard, some people would PREFER that you were "cheating" (((*scratching head*)) ... *shrug!*)

I guess my situation is unique in that a lot of the gals I'm seeing now are "friends" with whom I've been flirting with for years now. Only now... (since I left my monogamous relationship last year) ...I can do more than simply run to the end of my leash and bark all day.