How to be more open and confident with my sexuality?

[Mr.GeekChic]

Hello all,

I'm a straight male in my mid-20s and I could use some advice. This is gonna be pretty long, but please stick with me because I really would appreciate some help. I feel like I have to give enough background for people to really understand what's going on.

When I was 13, I began to explore my own sexuality. It felt very exciting and liberating. I also had a strong non-mainstream bent to me, so I was very comfortable with alternate views of life, liberty, and the pursuit of pleasure. It just seemed so exciting that there was a vast world of sexual experience to be had. I guess you could say I was an aspiring bohemian.

However, all that was about to change.

I wasn't very popular at school, and when I would ask girls out, I would be rejected. I was deep in the "friend but not boyfriend material" zone. It wasn't my looks, because I had a lot of girls tell me I was cute ("Titanic" was popular at the time, and I was favorably compared to Leonardo diCaprio several times ). My friends were also starting to exclude me from more and more things.

So, facing a lot of rejection at school, it was easy for me to get very involved at church. I went pretty far down the fundamentalist path, and my previous views took a severe turn. The bohemian had become an extremely conservative bourgeois. I felt guilty and paranoid about everything, and this developed into a strong moral superiority complex. I also completely shut off my sexuality. I didn't masturbate or entertain sexual thoughts because not only was it sinful, I thought it was disrespectful.

I continued asking girls out, only to be rejected. It wasn't until I was 17 that I had my first date, followed soon after by my first kiss. In fact, she (I'll call her D) and I were just such an unbelievable match that we are still together.

When we got together, D and I established a lot of rules, some of which were reasonable, some of which were not. For example, we had rules that we wouldn't "check out" other people, or fantasize about anyone else. This was partly because we were young and insecure, and partly because I had some deep anxiety stemming from the way I had been living. My anxiety in turn caused her to be anxious and jealous. So, we laid out rules and everyone was happy.

What I said above might make it seem like D was being restrictive of me and I just want to make it clear that that's not the case. In fact, she's always been a free spirit herself and our relationship has been very freeing. She re-awakened my sexuality, and she freed me from the confines of the strict worldview that I had adopted, encouraging me to once again see alternate viewpoints and to just be myself.

Flash forward 10 years. D and I are happily married for a few years now. We've had a satisfying sex life, though I was a bit shy about asking her for what I'd like in bed. D and I were talking one night and she told me that she was sexually frustrated. I asked her why, and she told me that it was because she would like to experiment with other women. We had a long talk, and it turned out that while she had always been faithful to me, she had never followed the rules we had laid out regarding mental sexual activity. She fantasized about other people (men and women) and was shocked that I didn't. We realized that the expectations we had placed on each other were unreasonable and inhuman.

She had been getting over her jealousy even though I didn't know it. When we got married, she told my best man to take me to a strip club and make sure that I got a lapdance. I had fun that night, but I didn't let myself enjoy it too much. I told myself that I had gotten aroused because it was such a sexually charged environment, not because there were naked women everywhere I turned. For 10 years, I had been in complete denial that I could have even any sort of a sexual response for another woman.

When she admitted her desire to play with other people, all the libertine attitudes about sex that I had when I was younger flashed before my eyes. She was talking about us swinging, and I readily agreed. In fact, I surprised myself at how readily I agreed! It was such an open, honest, and liberating conversation that I feel it really made us much stronger as a couple. She can now be honest with me, and I can be honest with myself.

Now we only have three rules regarding our sex life: play smart (discreet and with sensible people), play safe (condoms & birth control ALWAYS), and tell each other everything that happens.

However, now I'm dealing with all of the baggage that I've been lugging around all this time regarding sex. I know intellectually that I'm good-looking because D tells me so, and I get a fair amount of appreciative looks and comments from older women (late 40's +) and gay men, but I'm not as confident in my ability to attract women in my own age group because I've had years upon years of rejection. She tells me that she sees women checking me out, but I must be completely clueless because I can never tell. I also feel like I'm completely starting over again sexually, because my sexuality completely revolved around her to the exclusion of all other ideas, let alone possibilities, and even before I was with her I had shut it all out completely.

If you've made it to here, thanks for sticking with me! Does anyone have any suggestions on ways that I can open myself up to being more comfortable with my sexuality? And ways that I can feel more confident? The freedom feels great, but it's also a little scary...

[padoc]

Swinging and sex in general is supposed to be fun. You are way too self absorbed. Go to a swing club, have a few drinks, meet people, lighten up, get naked and have fun. You need to harken back to the 60's and live the duel anthems of Love the one you're with and if it feels good.....do it and quit overthinking things.

[VegasLee]

Well, I am going to answer this more the way my wife would rather then my way.

She says more guys talk their self out of getting laid by thinking and talking.

She finds great looking guys, then they open their mouth and talk to much about things they should not even think about talking about.

If you are the good looking guy you think you are and you stated that even your friends started excluding you then it must not be your looks.

Think about it a bit. Look in the mirror. Stop over thinking swinging, go, relax, enjoy yourself and don't make more of it then it is.

padoc posted some good advise. Just don't over partake in the drink part. Drinks can make a person stupid fast.

Good luck to you.

[Newpants]

I agree with everything the other two posters have said but will add some more to it.

I will level with you, it is going to be a tough road ahead and you are going to hit some pretty big bumps along that road at time. The fact that you have spent years of your early development disciplining yourself to suppress attraction and sexual interest is really going to work against you but just as you learned to do it, you can also learn to undo it.

Swinging is tough for a lot of guys and there will be times that you feel like a porn star but they will be counteracted by many other times that you strike out left and right and couldn't get laid in a whorehouse with a million dollars in your pocket. Even the best looking and most charming men in the lifestyle get rejected....a lot.

And while you are struggling with your own personal demons and issues your wife is going to have the red carpet layed out in front of her and she is going to get all the attention and adoration and it will be easy to get envious of her attentions and opportunities.

The good news is if I can do it, anyone can!!

The first thing you need to do is have your wife and maybe even a girlfriend or two of hers take you out for a complete makeover and a day of shopping for a new wardrobe. I know, I know that sounds really gay but you are going to have to look as sharp as you possibly can and more importantly, not only are you going to have to look sharp, you are going to have to FEEL sharp. Personal confidence is one of the most critical characteristics that a swinger is going to have to have and you are in very short supply of that at the moment.

Then you are going to have to start working on your social skills and developing a whole new set of social and flirtation skills. That is going to take some work because you have trained yourself over the years to suppress your natural feelings of attraction towards women and have choked off your ability to express and convey that attraction. In a swinging venue you will need to express your attraction to someone in a matter of seconds and you probably won't get many if any second chances.

A good place to start right at this moment is to read the article, "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT: THE ART OF TALKING TO STRANGERS" which is in the "Swinger Articles" section of this website. Read that article and start using those suggestions and techniques all day every day as you go through your normal daily activities. Social skills take time to develop but they can be learned and perfected over time.

I have not read it but I am sure it is a good book, so I would also recommend ordering the book "The Swinger Manual" by our own JustAskJulie. Along with that I would highly suggest reading as much as you can on this website and ask a lot of the questions you may have.

I would also reccommend getting some kind of swinging mentor or even taking one of those flirtation classes or classes on social skills and flirting etc.

Given your background it will take some work and effort for you but you sound very intelligent and self-aware and you are also able to express yourself well through the written word so you should be quite trainable to learn how to express yourself through the spoken word as well.

Good luck and keep us posted on how things are going for you.

[Mr.GeekChic]

Finally, the forum will let me reply to my own thread!!!

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

Originally Posted by Newpants

And while you are struggling with your own personal demons and issues your wife is going to have the red carpet layed out in front of her and she is going to get all the attention and adoration and it will be easy to get envious of her attentions and opportunities.

Yes, I'm well aware of this. I've had to get over my jealousy a long time ago. My wife is VERY beautiful, and never fails to get attention wherever she goes. I used to get really upset over the looks and comments she'd get from other guys, but one day (I remember it, actually) I realized that all the attention just demonstrates how lucky I am to have such a gorgeous spouse and that if she's enjoying the attention (who wouldn't, honestly?) then I should just calm down and enjoy the fact that I'm the one who's with her.

The first thing you need to do is have your wife and maybe even a girlfriend or two of hers take you out for a complete makeover and a day of shopping for a new wardrobe. I know, I know that sounds really gay but you are going to have to look as sharp as you possibly can and more importantly, not only are you going to have to look sharp, you are going to have to FEEL sharp.

I'm actually pretty lucky in this regard, too. Over the years, my wife has helped me to be a much better dresser (hence my username here). A makeover day does sound like a lot of fun, though...

Personal confidence is one of the most critical characteristics that a swinger is going to have to have and you are in very short supply of that at the moment.

Yes. This. It's a weird combination, really. One of my philosophies is that on a given topic there can be two differing opinions inside: what you think about it (what you know intellectually), and what you feel about it. Intellectually, I know that I must be physically attractive on some level because my wife tells me (and I believe that she's being honest about it) and because I do notice getting some attention from older women and gay men. However, I go back and forth on feeling attractive. If I'm so good looking, why don't I notice women looking at me? I've seen them looking at other guys. Do they look at me that way? **** if I know...

Then you are going to have to start working on your social skills and developing a whole new set of social and flirtation skills. That is going to take some work because you have trained yourself over the years to suppress your natural feelings of attraction towards women and have choked off your ability to express and convey that attraction. In a swinging venue you will need to express your attraction to someone in a matter of seconds and you probably won't get many if any second chances.

I have very little idea of how to flirt. Apparently a few years ago an acquaintance of ours had a crush on me and would flirt with me. I had no idea until someone else told me. I just feel utterly clueless and am not even sure how to start. I don't know when they're flirting with me, let alone how to flirt back. And since this is so new and given our past history, I'm still getting used to the idea that my wife would even want me to flirt with another woman.

A good place to start right at this moment is to read the article, "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT: THE ART OF TALKING TO STRANGERS" which is in the "Swinger Articles" section of this website. Read that article and start using those suggestions and techniques all day every day as you go through your normal daily activities. Social skills take time to develop but they can be learned and perfected over time.

I have not read it but I am sure it is a good book, so I would also recommend ordering the book "The Swinger Manual" by our own JustAskJulie. Along with that I would highly suggest reading as much as you can on this website and ask a lot of the questions you may have.

Thanks for the tips. I'll look into those.

I would also reccommend getting some kind of swinging mentor or even taking one of those flirtation classes or classes on social skills and flirting etc.

They have classes like that? Sounds kind of fun.

Given your background it will take some work and effort for you but you sound very intelligent and self-aware and you are also able to express yourself well through the written word so you should be quite trainable to learn how to express yourself through the spoken word as well.

Good luck and keep us posted on how things are going for you.

It's definitely easier for me to write than to speak. But I posted this because I want to learn.

[ViSexual]

You mentioned that older women and gay guys do come on to you... There are older women at swinging clubs and parties, you know. And, it doesn't mean your wife has to be with their, 'older', husbands if she doesn't want to.

So, think about it, it sounds like you'd be more confortable with the more mature ladies and I think you just might find their experience thrilling. And, if it's something that interests you, find a lady for your lady and a gay, or bi, guy for yourself!

Swinging doesn't have to be two young couples swapping partners.

Good luck to you both and, relax, sit back, and enjoy!

[Alura]

Originally Posted by Mr.GeekChic

If you've made it to here, thanks for sticking with me! Does anyone have any suggestions on ways that I can open myself up to being more comfortable with my sexuality? And ways that I can feel more confident? The freedom feels great, but it's also a little scary...

I'd suggest that you really cast off the church's idea that sex is somehow less than honorable. It won't be easy, but if you study history, rather than the bible, you'll find that Jesus never said anything derogatory about sex. That came through Saul of Tarsus, (who was a bit of an ugly cuss with whom women wouldn't even talk) and was cemented into place three hundred years after Jesus' death when the Roman Emperor Constintine ordered the bible to be assembled. In my opinion, the churches of today have little understanding of what Jesus was trying to teach.

The Great Spirit, who loves to see Her children eat bison and make love, doesn't seem to like churches and trailer parks. I think that's why She tears them apart so often with Her tornados.

I think the "make over" idea is a good one. It should build your confidence as well as make you more attractive to women.

Alura

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by ViSexual

You mentioned that older women and gay guys do come on to you... There are older women at swinging clubs and parties, you know. And, it doesn't mean your wife has to be with their, 'older', husbands if she doesn't want to.

So, think about it, it sounds like you'd be more confortable with the more mature ladies and I think you just might find their experience thrilling. And, if it's something that interests you, find a lady for your lady and a gay, or bi, guy for yourself!

Swinging doesn't have to be two young couples swapping partners.

Good luck to you both and, relax, sit back, and enjoy!

As long as I'm attracted to her, I'd be totally open to an older woman. Gay/bi guys aren't really my thing, though. I have tons of gay friends, so it's not that I have anything against it, it just doesn't really appeal to me. And it's not that I'm more comfortable with older women, it's just that it seems like they're the ones who either come out and tell me I'm good looking or who I hear about later on telling other people that. My wife and I were talking about it last night and she said she sees girls checking me out but they're just more discreet about it. I laughed and said "Well if they're so discreet about it, then how am I supposed to know they're interested?"

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by padoc

Swinging and sex in general is supposed to be fun. You are way too self absorbed. Go to a swing club, have a few drinks, meet people, lighten up, get naked and have fun. You need to harken back to the 60's and live the duel anthems of Love the one you're with and if it feels good.....do it and quit overthinking things.

I have always been one to overthink things. When she and I first started talking about it, I did a lot of overthinking until I basically figured out those first two anthems for myself.

Right now we've been looking at profiles online, but maybe going to a club would be a better experience. You don't get the immediate personal interaction online that you would at a club.

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Well, I am going to answer this more the way my wife would rather then my way.

She says more guys talk their self out of getting laid by thinking and talking.

She finds great looking guys, then they open their mouth and talk to much about things they should not even think about talking about.

Can you give a more specific example(s) of what she means?

If you are the good looking guy you think you are and you stated that even your friends started excluding you then it must not be your looks.

My friends don't really exclude me anymore. I completely understand why they used to, though. I was basically a 16 year old Frasier Crane, and no one really wants to be around someone like that. I could be pretty insufferable, and I would have a very hard time just relaxing and having fun. Especially if the fun they were having involved something that was outside my comfort zone. I'm a totally different person now, though. And now that I am, it's time for me to shed my self-doubt.

Think about it a bit. Look in the mirror. Stop over thinking swinging, go, relax, enjoy yourself and don't make more of it then it is.

I guess I'm kind of trying to figure out how to get myself out there in the first place, so that I have something to relax about and enjoy.

padoc posted some good advise. Just don't over partake in the drink part. Drinks can make a person stupid fast.

Good luck to you.

Thanks for your advice as well. And no, I definitely won't over indulge. I'm a very light drinker, so it wouldn't take much to put me out. And what was Shakespeare's quote about alcohol? Something like "It provokes the desire but takes away the performance."

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by Alura

I'd suggest that you really cast off the church's idea that sex is somehow less than honorable. It won't be easy, but if you study history, rather than the bible, you'll find that Jesus never said anything derogatory about sex. That came through Saul of Tarsus, (who was a bit of an ugly cuss with whom women wouldn't even talk) and was cemented into place three hundred years after Jesus' death when the Roman Emperor Constintine ordered the bible to be assembled. In my opinion, the churches of today have little understanding of what Jesus was trying to teach.

The Great Spirit, who loves to see Her children eat bison and make love, doesn't seem to like churches and trailer parks. I think that's why She tears them apart so often with Her tornados.

I think the "make over" idea is a good one. It should build your confidence as well as make you more attractive to women.

Alura

Fortunately, I've gotten rid of that aspect of myself, too. I have changed religions a few times since then, and finally found one that really fits.

And even though Jesus never said anything about sex, there were plenty of other sources (both old and new testament) in the Bible whose ideas about it were all over the place. Not to mention that abstinence is the preferred modality that is taught to Christian youth. There was enough talk about how sinful the flesh is from the religion at large that I listened to it. It was only after I stopped going to church that I realized how much that I felt so much of Christianity missed the boat when it came to Jesus' teachings. In my mind it basically boiled down to "Look, those old rules that you were told to live by? Don't worry about those so much. Just love God and love each other and it'll all be fine."

Please don't get the wrong idea. I have nothing against Christianity, and I'm not trying to bash it. Jesus's teachings were profound and valuable. I just think that they have been mis-used and ignored in favor of other things. My point is only to share my perspective on it, both the place where I'm coming from and the place where I'm going.

[lustylearning]

If you really can't tell when someone is flirting with you, then you have to be the starter. Don't look for signals. Send them. Something to keep in mind, if you and your wife are playing together, you may want to get her input before you pick a target/s. Success can be quick, and it might piss her off if she finds herself in a situation she had no part in, expected to close the deal.

If you're stuck wondering what to talk about, I suggest you be yourself. You may meet 10 people, only one of whom you click with. No big deal. If you're trying to hook up with your own age group, you have to compete, because to your peers, you're just another guy. Bring the best of yourself to the table, dance, enjoy yourself, and show it. Show no fear of rejection.

Expect nothing; enjoy what you get; and keep in mind, it gets easier.

[LikeMinds321]

Mr.GeekChic

You may be surprised at how quickly you'll adapt to being more confident and sexually comfortable. I find that when my mind is sure of a decision I've made, I tend to show it in my body language and how I communicate to others. I am open to the universe, wisdom flows in. I think you're sure of your newfound self and this will help you immensely.

You can now appreciate the attractive, sexy qualities in others. Once you begin spending time around swingers you will probably take to it easier than you think.

What are you and your wife doing to find swingers? Are you on a swinger ad site, do you have swinger clubs to attend? I will be interested in hearing about how things develop for you once you try those avenues.

I look forward to your posts.

LM

[midnightplayer]

What a terrific post and the responses are awsome. This was the most enjoyable reading I have done on this site. Good Luck Geek and to all of you well done on the advice I got a lot out of it as well as he did. Thanks you all

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

Mr.GeekChic

You may be surprised at how quickly you'll adapt to being more confident and sexually comfortable. I find that when my mind is sure of a decision I've made, I tend to show it in my body language and how I communicate to others. I am open to the universe, wisdom flows in. I think you're sure of your newfound self and this will help you immensely.

Hi LikeMinds321! Thanks for the advice. Yes, I feel that with all of the changes I've gone through, I am finally getting to be the person I always wanted to be. And I completely understand what you mean when you say the wisdom flows in, becaue I've always experienced that too. Yesterday I was practicing archery when I had a revelation: confidence isn't something for me to acquire, it's something that's already in me. I just need to learn how to express it.

You can now appreciate the attractive, sexy qualities in others.

And that's been quite enjoyable, and it's a lot of fun to talk with my wife about people we find attractive.

Once you begin spending time around swingers you will probably take to it easier than you think.

What are you and your wife doing to find swingers? Are you on a swinger ad site, do you have swinger clubs to attend? I will be interested in hearing about how things develop for you once you try those avenues.

I look forward to your posts.

LM

We are on a site, but there aren't really any clubs to attend in our area.