Swinging and "Karma"

[GeorgeofJungle]

OK...this is going to sound weird...but...so does three guys, two dogs and four ladies in a tent...I don't know if anyone has tried that...I haven't...but I digress.

I guess that I would say that I've always believed in sort of .....karma...superstition...whatever. But I'm a technically trained person, you know...logic, the experimental method, hypothesis, experiment, validation etc.

One of my reservations, as we move into the world of swinging...is...well...karma. In my personal experience, I know a few people who are addicted to porn. It seems as though nothing goes good in their life. They're divorced, they don't have good jobs, they don't have good relationships with their kids...they're nice people...but their lives aren't "together".

I guess that my emotional side is still fighting the feeling that, if I get far into swinging, my kids will turn from straight A students to shiftless cravens, I won't be able to hold down a job and I'll live in a run-down shack on welfare...although...with the state of the economy we all could be in the last boat.

My technical side looks at this forum as a way to "experiment" and ask the question to a large group of people....so how have your lives been since you started swinging? If there is such a thing as karma...has it bitten you in the ass...or has it smiled down on you?

[slevin]

The people who let an addiction to something ruin their lives have issues running deep. The issue isn't that they are addicted to porn, it's why they are addicted. Escaping from their life, filling a void or whatever it actually is. That is the reason their life isn't going well. It's not the porns fault.

We swing to make our life more fun; our approach to life makes things fun, just like someone elses approach to life makes theirs depressing (to them). It's all in how you approach it.

[Chicup]

Lets see our life has only improved since we started swinging.

So I guess I need to wait for a bad thing to happen, which it will it always will, and then say 'SEE KARMA!'.

Karma is one of those thing which I too sometimes 'feel' but its just you punishing yourself for feeling guilty.

[ncmd_couple]

That is an interesting question. I am a firm believer in karma. In the belief in karma, what you do in this life affects your karma in the next. Not this life. So I guess I will have to wait until the next cycle to find out if swinging has any impact on my karma, but I suspect that it will not, because in my life I feel that I try my best to live well and treat others well and therefore my karma should be good in my next life.

S

[Alura]

Good question, George! This will be an interesting thread.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

...

I guess that I would say that I've always believed in sort of .....karma...superstition...whatever. But I'm a technically trained person, you know...logic, the experimental method, hypothesis, experiment, validation etc.

I believe in Karma, George. I think I must have done something really wonderful in a former life (Maybe I was the Cheyenne kid who shot Custer.) to have deserved Laura and my two sons in this one. Other than Laura's early death at fifty-three, I wouldn't change a thing.

One of my reservations, as we move into the world of swinging...is...well...karma. In my personal experience, I know a few people who are addicted to porn. It seems as though nothing goes good in their life. They're divorced, they don't have good jobs, they don't have good relationships with their kids...they're nice people...but their lives aren't "together".

What is addiction? If someone must deal with any one aspect of his life to the exclusion of other things, surely all else will suffer. Karma, in my opinion has nothing to do with it. There is a "Love Temple" in India (the mainstay of Karma), that has statuary depictions of every sex scene you can imagine and is hundreds (maybe thousands) of years old.

I guess that my emotional side is still fighting the feeling that, if I get far into swinging, my kids will turn from straight A students to shiftless cravens, I won't be able to hold down a job and I'll live in a run-down shack on welfare...although...with the state of the economy we all could be in the last boat.

The idea of being punished for sex acts is Neo-Christian, not introduced into the church until some three hundred years after Jesus' crucifixion. Jesus talked little about sex and never said it was sinful. That idea started with Saul of Tarsus (aka Saint Paul) who, in my opinion, had little understanding of Jesus' teachings. He never met him.

My two sons, Eighteen (3.45 GPA) and Twenty 3.7 GPA), have always been honor students and have not been raised in any religion, except Native American philosophy. Twenty is a Sophomore at "The Harvard of the Southwest" and Eighteen starts at Enormous State University in the Fall. Both have music and academic scholarships.

My technical side looks at this forum as a way to "experiment" and ask the question to a large group of people....so how have your lives been since you started swinging? If there is such a thing as karma...has it bitten you in the ass...or has it smiled down on you?

Laura and I played during most of our marriage. It's only been wonderful; I've never been "bitten in the ass."

We're glad you're here and hope you learn a lot!

Alura

[The Fuse]

Your question seems to assume that swinging would generate bad karma. Why would it be bad? If everyone is honest and making each other happy, what is there to punish?

Lots of people can't seem to shake the idea that sex is bad on some level. What many of us have realized is that sex is good. Not only that, but swinging, when done in a way that respects those we love and our playmates, generates *happiness*. Sounds like good karma to me.

[SecretAsianMan]

I totally agree with The Fuse on this one...

Why is it you assume sex & swinging is something which generates "bad" karma for you?

In regards to your example of someone becoming addicted to porn leading to their downfall... it was the ADDICTION ... not the porn which was the problem.

Becoming seriously addicted to anything to the point where it's out of control and takes priority over the important things in your life (i.e., your job, your kids, your family, your relationship with friends) is just bad your life... heck, I know people who've become addicted to the gym and have lost friends & family due to their NEED to devote hours and hours of time working-out.

I think that you need to keep your hands on the steering wheel and your eyes & ears open to what's going on around you. Sure, even the safest of drivers will have an accident from time to time - but if you stay in control of what your doing... you're more likely to avoid getting steered into the wrong lane.

[GeorgeofJungle]

All great, thought provoking answers...

To me "Karma" isn't the classical idea of this life changing the next life...it's more of the "what goes around comes around" type of thinking.

I've always believed that good things come from things started with good intentions and bad things come from things started with bad intentions. Sort of a "reap what you sew" type of philosophy.

I'm not saying that sex is bad...otherwise...I'd be a very bad, bad man :-) I can definitely see Fuse's philosophy having some merit. Same thing with SAM (Secret Asian Man).

Alura..always a good read (insert respectful bow here).

The people with addictions that I know also usually lie to or cheat others in order to feed their addictions...probably a defining characteristic of a destructive sexual experession vs swinging.

I can also see the philosophical trap that Chicup identified...I can't remember how many times something bad in my life has happened and I think to myself...I shouldn't have done this or done that...trying to attribute some type of guilt for why it happened to me.

I guess I'm going to need to get over that...as long as I'm being straight up with everyone and being sure to respect everyone involved.

[Newpants]

I believe in karma to a degree but I don't believe karma has a thing to do with people that live mediocre lives or think that porn addiction and swinging have anything to do with each other or believe that swinging will result in bad karma.

The key word with the people you mentioned is "addiction". If they are addicted then they are going to have problems and all other areas of their lives are going to suffer.

In order for multiple areas of life to be functional then everything has to be in balance. If someone is addicted then they are not in balance. It doesn't matter if it is porn, drugs, alchohol, facebook, gardening, whatever. If you spend all your time doing one thing then all the other things in your life are going to suffer.

If your life is in balance and you do not let swinging take over your life and consume your every thought and action then swinging will not harm you and will not be your downfall. If swinging does take over your life and you stop going to work, stop taking care of your health, stop tending to your family then yes, your life will crumble down around you.

That isn't karma. That's just reality and just makes sense whether you are a scientist or a spiritualist dontcha think?

[SecretAsianMan]

Originally Posted by Newpants

It doesn't matter if it is porn, drugs, alchohol, facebook, gardening, whatever. If you spend all your time doing one thing then all the other things in your life are going to suffer.

...(*laughing*) ... here's a surefire way to tell if you're a Facebook -addict. You see something like this that you agree with and you find yourself hunting for the LIKE-button.

[GeorgeofJungle]

From Newpants:

"That isn't karma. That's just reality and just makes sense whether you are a scientist or a spiritualist dontcha think?"

I understand what you're saying; and if everything were under our control, I would agree completely. Science trys to model reality to predict consequences of actions or predict possible outcomes.

Maybe I made it too cut and dried by mentioning "addiction"...we all know that addictions hurt the addict and the people around them.

Karma and other spiritual notions are ways of explaining the unexplainable. These notions try to make sense of things that don't make sense...for instance, maybe you aren't an addict, maybe you do balance your life, or you think it is in balance...and then you or a loved one is diagnosed with a terminal illness. (I don't have this particular issue...just an example)

Many times, when these things happen, we examine our lives, do some soul searching and maybe assign some measure of guilt to certain aspects of our lives (well, at least those of us who were raised Catholic...then studied far Eastern philosophy in college might :-)

My wife and I have had fun, yet not always fruitful forays into the swinging world. We've talked about stuff that I never imagined we'd talk about...already experienced some adventures that seemed unimaginable a year ago. Yet we still have setbacks in our life...and that Catholic raised, Far Eastern trained side of me sometimes says...you know, if you hadn't gone to that swing party...or if you hadn't (insert something here)...maybe this unexplainable setback wouldn't have happened

Those are the types of thoughts that I attribute to beliefs in karma, superstition, catholic guilt...whatever.

Maybe I should just watch more Disney channel with my kids and enjoy the mind rot...problably wouldn't think so much :-)

[Trace Ekies]

The gods who mete out karma, either good or bad, are probably not interested in bedroom practices...

But if generating a positive "aura" requires that we do the right thing in our dealings with people then being a bad swinger is just as likely to hurt your karma as being a (insert scum here).

You hit the nail on the head Fuse...the automatic assumption is that swinging is bad and we risk having our karma go negative. Positive swinging leads to positive karma...treat swingers poorly and you risk the same consequences as treating other people poorly.

Remember...as adults, Mrs. Ekies and I accept the responsibility to act as good people should and treat people with the dignity and respect they've earned. Swinging is not bad...adults who act like children or who treat people poorly are.

Trace.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

.





Many times, when these things happen, we examine our lives, do some soul searching and maybe assign some measure of guilt to certain aspects of our lives (well, at least those of us who were raised Catholic...then studied far Eastern philosophy in college might :-)

My wife and I have had fun, yet not always fruitful forays into the swinging world. We've talked about stuff that I never imagined we'd talk about...already experienced some adventures that seemed unimaginable a year ago. Yet we still have setbacks in our life...and that Catholic raised, Far Eastern trained side of me sometimes says...you know, if you hadn't gone to that swing party...or if you hadn't (insert something here)...maybe this unexplainable setback wouldn't have happened

Those are the types of thoughts that I attribute to beliefs in karma, superstition, catholic guilt...whatever.

Maybe I should just watch more Disney channel with my kids and enjoy the mind rot...problably wouldn't think so much :-)

In reading your posts in this thread I agree with the others in that you seem to have a deep seated "sex-negative" viewpoint in thinking that sex/swinging is inherently bad and is an act that will ultimately result in some form of punishment or in this case "bad Karma."

The real problem that I see that can result from this is all of us periodically have bad things that happen to us. In fact bad things happen just as much to the saints as to the sinners. Where I see this becoming an issue is that if you are going to blame swinging everytime something bad happens to you then eventually swinging will get a real black eye and you will reject swinging and no longer do it anymore.

The problem there is you will still have bad things that will occur in your life and you will no longer have the fun and pleasure of swinging as a source of enjoyment in your life. Taken to the extreme one can assign guilt and bad Karma to many or all sources of pleasure and enjoyment untill one becomes nothing but a carrier of guilt and shame and without experiencing any enjoyment of that which is inherently enjoyable. How many people do you know that are exactly like that? I know quite a few unfortunately.

If noone else has suggested this to you, I will suggest that you check out the website Liberated Christians Polyamory, Swing, Biblical, Sybian Cyber Center. There are a ton of really good articles on that site about sex-negative vs sex-positive attitudes and debate of how various scriptures relate to sexuality and swinging etc etc.

It's an interesting albeit very controversial website. What I find real ironic about that site is some of the most informative and well written articles I have ever read about swinging are on a christian website.

And as a side note, in some ways I agree with your statement of watching Disney with the kids. children often have a much healthier way of dealing with bad events than do adults. Many times children can accept that bad shit just happens from time to time and that life goes on, that tomorrow will be better and some good things might happen tomorrow. As adults we want explanation and to find fault when things happen and we often blame ourselves using concepts like Karma to try and blame things that have no correlation. Kids don't do that untill they are trained to find fault and instilled with a sense of guilt. In other words kids are healthy untill adults fuck them up.

[padoc]

Fuse is correct! It sounds like you are still wrestling with the negative connotations generally associated with swinging. Until you free yourself from the presumption of wrong doing, bad karma is nothing but a self fulfilling prophecy. We have accepted that sex among friends without strings and for recreation is a good thing. Consequently, our lives have been enriched by our swinging experiences and by the people we've met in the lifestyle.

[lovinher]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Your question seems to assume that swinging would generate bad karma. Why would it be bad? If everyone is honest and making each other happy, what is there to punish?

Lots of people can't seem to shake the idea that sex is bad on some level. What many of us have realized is that sex is good. Not only that, but swinging, when done in a way that respects those we love and our playmates, generates *happiness*. Sounds like good karma to me.

Exactly, well said.