GF and I are going to the club for the first time, BUT...

[DiscreetRayJay]

Hi there community... First, I need to apologize, because I know you field the type of questions I'm about to ask routinely enough to be sick to death. I am hoping though that you will entertain the questions and help me out if you can.

My GF and I have been together long enough now to know that we're going to get married. We live together, we love together. We get along better than I've EVER gotten along with anyone. We've had our fights - all couples do, but we've never had a fight which didn't make us stronger. I believe that changed last night. Allow me to explain.

A few months ago, my GF was out with some girlfriends having a few drinks. As she always does, she was giving me text updates as the evening progressed. I know all of the girls she was with - including the one girl who apparently that night admitted to having a bi-curious side. According to my GF, her friend explained her "rules" for having a girl/girl encounter:

1. The other girl would have to be a total stranger.
2. She'd have to be a little drunk (otherwise she'd be to inhibited to do it).
3. Her husband could watch, but could not touch, period.

I was excited by this as this girl is fairly attractive and now I have thoughts of her living out her fantasies when I see her, although I'd never say anything... ever. Anyways... my GF added to this story by explaining that for her to do a girl/girl experience, the rules would have to be exactly the same. Of course this got my juices flowing. I had to know more.

The next day, I asked her about the conversation the girls had the night before. Asking her the obvious question about what she'd said. Her reply was a bit of a let down. she said that she was just talking and that she meant had she ever decided to do that and that she was past that in life now. (I'm 31, she's 32). I was disappointed, but I told her (and the other girl) there was a place she could go to satisfy her fantasy. (the local on-premise club) It was clear immediately that I opened a door for her that she didn't know existed. She sorta admitted it was more fantasy than something she was really looking to do... I'll digress on that one...

Now, give me a minute to explain who each of us are... It's sort of integral to the forthcoming question(s). I was married for a long time. The relationship was bad, and without too much detail, our sex life reflected how awful our marriage really was. Not satisfied with things, I stepped out on her. A huge mistake, but it's what happened. I registered with Swing Lifestyle, created a premium account, and sought the company of singles and couples while I was married. I did meet one couple in the year that I was involved with the lifestyle guy. I fooled around with the girl in the couple only once or twice, but it gave me experience into the lifestyle. I liked it. I even contemplated bringing this to the wife, but I thought better of it and kept it my secret. When I met my GF, I cancelled my Swing Lifestyle and gave up the lifestyle altogether, promising that I'd only come back if and when I could come back with my GF.

My GF has been around the block a lot, but all vanilla stuff with two exceptions. The first found her in bed with another couple, but not as a player. She was just there while the couple was having sex together. The second found her in bed with two men... She told me she had to leave the situation before anything happened. "I'm only built for one at a time." She said. She's had no other lifestyle experience whatsoever, but she's not dumb either; she knows what's out there.

We both like to watch porn together. We're both voyeurs. She is the most sexual woman I've ever met, and I'm lucky to have it as good with her as I do. I'm also extremely sexual. I think although I don't have the experience she does, I'm less inhibited than she....

...onto the story -

So having had the conversation about the local on-premise club, I asked my GF if she'd ever want to go. I was scared stiff to ask the question. If she said no, she'd wonder why I wanted to go. I thought it might destroy us. Much to my surprise though, she said we could absolutely go, but immediately followed it up with: "I'm not doing anything though." Still shocked, I explained that was fine and that we'd just be going to check the club out and be voyeurs for a night. Excited, I wanted to sit down, review the club's website and pick a date right then and there, but she was scheduled to have knee surgery in a few weeks and there would be no way we could have gone before that or before she recovered completely. We decided on going to our local club on March 13 (about 2 weeks from now).

We had a few more conversations about going since the first time we discussed it. In those discussions she made it very clear to me that:

1. She did not want to share me with anyone else.
2. She wanted me to not want to share her with anyone else too.

I completely understood her and reassured her that we were going strictly as voyeurs. She seemed ok with that and haven't talked much about going since then... until a few days ago.

I have been doing ALL the research I can do to find out things like how the night is going to go down for first timers, what we should wear, how to politely say no, club etiquette, etc... in doing so, I started contacting current members and those who have been there before. I made friends with a few couples in the area, but just as mentors. All of this was in the open, and I never hid anything from Rachael, except for one thing: I would be ok sharing each other, although it's not something I'm prepared to lose the love of my life over.

Last night, I was talking with someone about going to the club (as I've been doing almost every night for two weeks - yea, I'm excited!) and she asked me what my GF wanted to get out of the club visit. Having never considered that at all, I decided to ask her. Up the stairs I marched, laptop in hand and sat down with her and asked her. She said she didn't know and asked me the same question. As I was answering, she caught a line of text I typed about being curious about doing more in the lifestyle. This was a conversation I wanted to have, but not how it happened and when it happened. I was TERRIFIED that admitting to wanting to be open would do irreparable damage. I was seeking advice on how to do this when she found out. Now I'm not prepared.

It got very nasty, and although the fight ended with us embracing and making lifelong promises, I don't know this fight will ever go away. Her sadness revolves around my being ok with sharing her with someone else. She went as far as to say that if I am willing to let her be with someone else, I am with the wrong woman. I quickly tried to backtrack to save my relationship. I tried explain that "doing more" or going further doesn't necessarily imply full swap or even soft swap... It might me being watched together, or same room sex, etc... It didn't work at first... She kept honing in on my desire to share her and how much that hurt. I tried to explain that I would never pressure her into something that she didn't want to do, and if she didn't want to explore openly as swingers, then WE don't want to... She didn't quite believe me there, although I meant it. If one of us or the other isn't ok with something, then WE together aren't. I believe that completely. For her though, it was all about my being ok with her being with another... She reiterated that would NEVER happen, ever.

Given all that was said last night, I told her (and I meant it) that we might want to reconsider going to the club altogether. Despite the fight, she insisted that she wanted to go... to watch and take it all in visually. She also said that IF any action happened there, it would be in a private room with the blinds drawn. I've always believed this would be a victory for me at this point, as I did not want to have the conversation yet.

People, I need help because now I'm confused. It's clear to me that she knows I want more from this than just voyeuring. It's clear to me that she's uncomfortable with that. It's also clear that she still wants to walk through the club's door with me. I don't know what to make of all of this. Is there still a remote curiosity in there?? Given what she's said will she ever come around to the lifestyle? Will there ever be an appropriate time to express to her that I might want to do more than just watch other couples? How do I do that while assuring her that she's all the woman I need and that it is just something I thought might be fun to share together, although we don't have to?

I'm sorry, it sort of all just fell apart on me here at the end. My mind is racing again. This is a fragile situation for me, and I don't want to break my relationship, which until last night was impenetrable. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and answer (if you do)....

Sincerely,
The New Guy

[DigginIt]

WOW, what a post, lol.

Curiosity and Insecurity seem to be the two biggest things I pull out of your story. She's curious enough to go to see what it is about but too insecure to think about the possibilities beyond some voyeuristic fun.

Swinging is about trust and while the two of you may be deeply in love, the trust (in the context of swinging) has a long way to go still. You both are on the younger side of the scene and have plenty of time. Don't rush it.

Most people do not understand swinging and why people do it. Many never will and some will but still will not do it themselves. The ability to think of sex as something recreational is not easy and even those of us that can think of it that way still have our fair share of emotional stress on occasion.

Continue to work on your relationship, plant a seed now and let it grow. Not only did my wife eventually come to terms with swinging when I brought it up but she took the horse by the reigns and led the charge. It took two years for that to happen. Exercise patience and understanding and be thankful that she seems to have an open mind even though she isn't able to accept the idea of sharing yet.

There is no rush and if and when she comes to terms with the idea, and if she thinks she would like to try it, it won't be something you had to drag her into but something she made a conscious decision to do with you as a couple.

[cplnuswing]

I agree with what DigginIt said, good advice for you there.

The only comment I might add is that your situation is a case study in why young relationships don't go together well with swinging. Not saying it can't be done successfully by people who haven't had a long-term relationship, but I think it's much, much more difficult. I will be the first to admit that it wouldn't have worked well for us either at that stage in our relationship.

Although the swinging demographic seems to be shifting a little younger, at least based on the online profiles you see now that you didn't even a few years ago, I think that's it's no random event that most lifestyle couples you meet have at least two if not all of the following - somewhere from early middle age on up, are married, and have known each other for years.

[DiscreetRayJay]

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I'm going to let her make the decisions about how we proceed from here. If it means we close the door to swinging for good, I'll be ok with that... (That was the one thing I don't think she understands about me: just because I'd like to, doesn't mean we have to.) If she does come around at some point, that will just be a wonderful bonus.

Thanks again to you folks for your input.

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by DiscreetRayJay

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I'm going to let her make the decisions about how we proceed from here. If it means we close the door to swinging for good, I'll be ok with that... (That was the one thing I don't think she understands about me: just because I'd like to, doesn't mean we have to.) If she does come around at some point, that will just be a wonderful bonus.

Thanks again to you folks for your input.

Just take things one step at a time and try not to spend too much time trying to figure out how it will play out in the future. If you go to the club, go there to have fun with her. Make it a very positive experience. Be sincere and loving and make sure you two dance and have a good time.

Explore the club and then talk later about things you saw. Things that got you excited or things you didn't like. Make sure the club visit is a couples only night is the one recommendation I would also give you for your visit.

Let us know how it goes.

[DiscreetRayJay]

*** UPDATE ***

Ok folks... We just got home from the club listed in the story above... I'm again going to need your assistance... I'm even more confused now (I think). I'll start by giving a quick rundown of our evening... (quick, I promise!)

We checked in and were introduced to a host couple who showed us around and explained the rules. They escorted us to a private room which included a two-way mirror into the room next to us and a swing. We've always wanted to try a swing, but it's not something that you'd want to spend money on to find out you hate it, so it was awesome having one there if we decided to use it. Apparently my GF got hot just thinking about the swing, but we followed the tour along and grabbed a seat for dinner.

We had introduced ourselves to another local couple on Yahoo messenger. They met us there and sat with us over dinner and while some of the other club regulars danced. About 45 minutes later we decided to take a walk through the club and see what was going on (as per the voyeur mission). She immediately took me to the room with the swing. Upon entering, another couple entered the room on the other side of the mirror. They left the lights on but dim... we were able to watch them for a while. My GF wouldn't get to close to the mirror for fear that she'd be caught watching, LOL.

We shut our blinds so we were totally in private. Immediately disrobed and she got into the swing. The rookies we are - we didn't quite figure it out, so I tossed her on the bed and we had our way with each other. It was a good time and we're already making plans to go back... On to my questions:

Back at our table we were people watching and talking a bit. Then, she said something I NEVER expected her to say. I need your help interpreting. She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

Please people, help me here!!! I didn't ask her to clarify that, so I don't know exactly what she meant by it... I sorta viewed that as an extremely fragile statement. If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing... I don't want to do that. What do I take from what she said? Is she considering something, if only prematurely and tentatively, or was she just talking? I'm confused, but optimistic. Is that right? Thanks again board members!!!

[SW_PA_Couple]

Originally Posted by DiscreetRayJay

. . . If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing...

I'm pleased to read that you shared a good time at the club. I have to wonder what gives you all of this concern for asking your womanfriend such a simple question. Have you known her to over-react?

~Michael

[Learning]

Just clarify with her. When you debrief maybe posing it as you guys are going to be with a couple that is attractive to you, not some trolls

[ncmd_couple]

RayJay,

It sounds like you two have a fun evening at the club. Ok, about her comment.

She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

Going to a club for the first time is a pretty sensory intense thing. You two were seeing, and enjoying, things that you would never have imagined a couple of years ago. In some ways, all those new senses, and trying to decided if you like them or not, could make her feel that her brain was melting down.

The rest of the statement sounds to me like she is saying, "I am really enjoying this, even if we never play with another couple, we will be coming back here again."

But the reality is, you can ask us, and we can give you our guess, but you will never really know until you talk to her about it.

S

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by DiscreetRayJay

Back at our table we were people watching and talking a bit. Then, she said something I NEVER expected her to say. I need your help interpreting. She said - "If for some reason my brain melts down and we ever did do something with a couple... We're definitely trading up, not down."

Please people, help me here!!! I didn't ask her to clarify that, so I don't know exactly what she meant by it... I sorta viewed that as an extremely fragile statement. If I asked her to clarify, I might break the fragile thing... I don't want to do that. What do I take from what she said? Is she considering something, if only prematurely and tentatively, or was she just talking? I'm confused, but optimistic. Is that right? Thanks again board members!!!

Hi RayJay and welcome to the Board.

I understand your GF's statement to mean:

If I say I want to have sex with someone (because I'm too drunk or just not thinking straight) be sure we have sex with people sexier than us, cooler than us, "porn type people" and NOT people less sexy than us or less cool than us.

I think your GF meant that if you are going to "trade" partners with another couple it better be a damn hot couple.

But hey Ray, just ask her.

If you have to tippy-toe around things your GF is going to say, worried about her being too fragile to discuss what she says, you two shouldn't be at a swing club.

What you have said throughout this thread about your GF's statements tells me she's likely to drink too much alcohol to get herself to swing, and then it will become the excuse for doing things she said she wouldn't or didn't want to do. If she thinks she needs to be drunk to do sexual things, that's going to be a big problem.

Don't head to a swing club again until you are able to talk to her about anything you have questions about.

LM

[DiscreetRayJay]

Ok, I think I should have taken the time to unwind and come down a little bit from our trip before I posted. While I told you everything that happened, the way it happened, I didn't do quite a good enough job explaining the moods we were in.

The most nervous I felt was on the way to the club. We signed in and were introduced to our host couple. By the time we were through with the explanation of the rules, both of us were relaxed and very excited about the evening. Everything went better than either of us could have expected.

I should also say that I don't drink... not a drop. My GF, she will drink, but when she said what she said last night, it was about four hours in and she was still working on her second or third drink. It was our goal to make sure we were both in the right frame of mind to experience something like this for the first time and be able to remember all of the details afterward. It was one of the rules we made.

About what she said? I think she was telling me that IF we ever decided together that this is something that we would want to do on a more involved level (whatever that may be), we would be very selective with whom we'd get more involved. So in that sense, you were right LM. To say it would take her being three sheets to the wind - I can tell you that's just not her at all. I'm just trying to get a sense from this group if you think that comments like that at ALL should be an indication for me that she might be willing to try new things and start talking more with her. We've definitely agreed we would go back. We even talked about how often we could reasonably get away for a night there... She told me the next time we go that we should opt for the annual membership ($50), citing if we go more than 5 times, it'll pay for itself. She's definitely comfortable with going back... We both are.

I will definitely at some point soon ask her about what she meant by what she said, but I just don't want to scare her away. I've learned over the past few weeks that I really need to take this very slow. In fact, I need to let her set the pace. We're a very honest couple with each other, but I also know that I don't want to rehash a bad discussion like the one we had a few weeks back. I'll handle that portion of this whole thing on my own; I was more asking if you thought it was something that was worth trying to handle. It feels to me like given the right time and room to explore herself and emotions, she will likely come around. I was curious to know if you all shared my sentiment. Thanks again.

One last thing before I go... I almost get the sense that she's feeling me out a little bit too with those types of comments... Does that sound ridiculous?

[Gordo]

My take:

a/ she's hooked
b/ she already has firm expections about what she wants. (we're trading up)
c/ she's rationalizing her desire by expressing it as a cost saving.

I wouldn't slow down one bit. Get her back and let the atmosphere work on her. I think you'll be surprised by what happens very shortly.

G.

[DiscreetRayJay]

Originally Posted by Gordo

My take:

a/ she's hooked
b/ she already has firm expections about what she wants. (we're trading up)
c/ she's rationalizing her desire by expressing it as a cost saving.

I wouldn't slow down one bit. Get her back and let the atmosphere work on her. I think you'll be surprised by what happens very shortly.

G.

That's certainly my plan. Keep it moving slowly. She's in the driver's seat from here on out. I will however show her the road. Thanks so much for all the input. You guys/gals all rock.

[Gordo]

One other thought I had would be to ask her, when you're at the club, to point out a guy she thinks would be a trade up or fantasy.

If she points someone out, assuming he's not busy, don't ask.. just go over and ask him to join you. Even better if it's a couple.

Hopefully that he measures up to whatever picture she has in her mind.

[DiscreetRayJay]

Originally Posted by Gordo

One other thought I had would be to ask her, when you're at the club, to point out a guy she thinks would be a trade up or fantasy.

If she points someone out, assuming he's not busy, don't ask.. just go over and ask him to join you. Even better if it's a couple.

Hopefully that he measures up to whatever picture she has in her mind.

She did point out a guy and said "He could get it." but under no circumstances would I ever surprise her like that. If/when it happens:

a: it'll probably be same room sex the first time (or more likely few times)
b: it will have been a decision we made prior to the visit where something would happen.
c: if we agree "tonight is the night" we won't settle. We'll talk with the m/w/c and see how it goes.

I think it's dangerous doing things without discussing them first.