New Guy Here...With Familiar Dilemma

[bryanky]

Alright guys/gals, long time viewer finally wanting to jump in and join the forum....so go easy on me for awhile.
My situation is very similar to what you guys read almost on a daily basis, so I understand that I'm very far from cornering the market here.

That said, here goes. I've been married almost seven years to a good woman,mother and wife. She's attractive, hard working, trustworthy and kind ( except during arguments, LOL). The problem is, and I hate to label religon as a "problem" that it seems that her religious/spiritual beliefs put a damper on sexual openness, let alone swinging with others. While she does enjoy sex, it's limited to two or three positions,mutual oral and that's about it. I did, however, manage to take some nude pictures of her and us together. And, interestingly, she got very excited during our session and took over the camera and started snapping some pics of her own.

Over the years we've roleplayed a bit, sometimes inquiring how her "boyfriend" is doing,or you better get done quick before my husband gets home. Mostly mild stuff that has never progressed past the pillow talk stage. She has, at times, mentioned swinging. Never in the context that led me to believe that she was seriously intersted. However, that she mentioned it does pique some curiosity in me. Is she fascinated? Or revolted?

Honestly, I'm afraid to bring up the matter to her other than "play" pillow talk. As she is conservative sexually, I'm afraid she'll decipher this as a desire on my part to be unfaithful or I'm attempting to compromise her values/morals.

A word or two about her usual sexual nature. I'm sure there are married men that have it far worse than me. In fact, I really don't have it so bad, considering all the qualities my wife posseses. Still, I long for her to be aggressive, instead of making sex so routine, as it's comparable to changing the oil in our car. I wish she would push her boundaries, and/or comfort level. Wear lingerie or talk dirty. Deep down, I've always suspected that my wife has a wild and adventurous side....I just have no idea how to tap into it. Most of you that walk in my shoes, will probably say get used to it, or leave. I refuse to do both, as I believe there is a way to break down her blocks.

[DigginIt]

You have to be able to talk with your wife openly. The one thing that I believe everyone will agree on is that communication is key to successful swinging. Everything else is arguable, lol, but if you can't talk openly about the idea of swinging then how will you manage to talk about uncomfortable things that come up when you are swinging?

I believe you are sincere but give your wife a little credit that she will be able to handle the discussion maturely. I always say this but get your reasons ready. Not why YOU want to do it but what you think it will bring to the relationship.

As an example, my wife and I wanted to recapture that lustful feeling you get from meeting and being with someone new. It had nothing to do with a bad sex life because we had a great sex life. It was just that we had settled into our routines and this allowed us to shake things up some and after a year, we are even closer than we ever were before. Yes, sleeping with others did bring us closer because we did it together and in the presence of each other and we have both benefited from the experiences.

It also took us two years to make the decision. Plant the seed through your discussions and be respectful. Let her come to her own decisions and never push. Bring her here to these boards and let her read on her own what others have said, issues they have faced. It helps by reading the stories of others and then talking about what you would have done had you been in that situation.

The idea is for her to get comfortable with it. The next thing is for you to get comfortable with it also. You may think you are ready but the moment you see another man touching your wife will be the moment of truth. You both have a lot to consider. The rewards are amazing if you can handle it.

Best of luck.

[AskMeOk]

Originally Posted by bryanky

The problem is, and I hate to label religon as a "problem" that it seems that her religious/spiritual beliefs put a damper on sexual openness, let alone swinging with others.

The traditional Christian religion *IS* a problem when it comes to sex... I think that is well documented and merits no real attention.

Your task: communication, communication, communication. Not everybody has such rigid religious beliefs, but some do and, ingrained since childhood, they may or may not be fixed in perpetuity.

If you are dealing with a "God said it, I believe it, and that's that" sort of mentality you may have no common ground.

If it isn't that bad, here is a resource that might help: Liberated Christians Polyamory, Swing, Biblical, Sybian Cyber Center

[Alura]

The above folks are right about communication. That's what y'all need to develop first.

Learn to ask questions that can't be answered with "Yes" or "No." "How do you feel about... " will bring about a discussion instead of a perfunctory answer that is likely to end the discussion. Use this form in all questions, not just swinging-related ones.

Alura

[bryanky]

Originally Posted by Alura

The above folks are right about communication. That's what y'all need to develop first.

Learn to ask questions that can't be answered with "Yes" or "No." "How do you feel about... " will bring about a discussion instead of a perfunctory answer that is likely to end the discussion. Use this form in all questions, not just swinging-related ones.

Alura

Actually, all the above posts are very helpful, and for that..Thank You. Good point about communication. I have to use this type of strategy with my job, so one would think that I employ the same ideas in regards to communicating with my wife. Instead, I usually revert to asking close ended questions that almost always end the conversation before they occur.

About religion, that' where I fear that my hopes of sexual openness in our marriage will be crashed. Mind you, my wife is not a fervent bible thumper who casts judgement on everyone, rather she's pretty black and white about certain issues, including sex.

That said, she keeps dropping suggestions and/or hints that are contrary. For instance, recently we found out her half sister was in the lifestyle. I guess that has stimulated some thought on her end. Last night, during a pillow talk session preceding our lovemaking she mentioned gangbang. I can't remember the exact context, but it was fairly benign. In other words, said in complete jest. The question begs me though, are casual references like this common in vanilla couples or is it a sign that my wife, at the least, has this fantasy?

I know what you guys will say...Communicate! Honestly, I want so bad to share my fantasies, but I fear what the repercussions will be. Maybe I'm afraid of offending her or pushing her away.

Before I sign off, one other question. Is it common or at least somwhat common to see Christian couples in the lifestyle?

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by bryanky

Before I sign off, one other question. Is it common or at least somwhat common to see Christian couples in the lifestyle?

There are some subjects that stir a lot of emotion and religion is one so PM me if you want to know my real thoughts. The short answer is yes.

Here are some good threads:

Religion and swinging

Swinging and Religion


I'll just leave you with something to think about and take out the religion and put in terms of "moral majority". How do we rationalize so many things that we do on a daily basis such as manipulation, lying, drinking, etc. and yet draw a line in the sand when it comes to sex? If anything, sex seems like the least likely point to draw that line when it's mutually acceptable in a relationship.

[bryanky]

Originally Posted by DigginIt

There are some subjects that stir a lot of emotion and religion is one so PM me if you want to know my real thoughts. The short answer is yes.

Here are some good threads:

Religion and swinging

Swinging and Religion


I'll just leave you with something to think about and take out the religion and put in terms of "moral majority". How do we rationalize so many things that we do on a daily basis such as manipulation, lying, drinking, etc. and yet draw a line in the sand when it comes to sex? If anything, sex seems like the least likely point to draw that line when it's mutually acceptable in a relationship.

Great point. You ask very good questions. Why in the world do we get stirred up about sexuality, yet we tolerate manipulation,jealousy, deceit, and abuse in relationships. It's like the analogy I like to refer to: society gets uptight about sexual content in television programming, yet the past two or three generations of children have grown up watching graphic violence on tv.

Anyways, not to stray far off point. Sex should be a beautiful and enjoyable experience. Why some demonize it is really a mystery.

[lookingfornow]

Originally Posted by bryanky

That said, she keeps dropping suggestions and/or hints that are contrary. For instance, recently we found out her half sister was in the lifestyle. I guess that has stimulated some thought on her end. Last night, during a pillow talk session preceding our lovemaking she mentioned gangbang. I can't remember the exact context, but it was fairly benign. In other words, said in complete jest. The question begs me though, are casual references like this common in vanilla couples or is it a sign that my wife, at the least, has this fantasy?

I suppose the short answer is that casual references are common and may or may not be a sign that she has this fantasy.

Reading your complete postings, it sounds like your wife may be a lot like mine. If your wife is at all like mine, her religious self-image is very important to her even though she is not zealous in the pursuit of her religion. She is likely willing to shed that self-image in the throes of passion only to need to grasp it even tighter after the passion has abated. So, getting her to open up to herself--let alone to you--regarding her true sexual thoughts and feelings is a challenge. Chances are that she simply doesn't want to think about the things that turn her on outside the context of the bedroom. And, once in the bedroom, she likely is too consumed by her arousal to share meaningfully anything about her thoughts and feelings.

Does this sound like your wife?

If it does, let me know, and I will continue with some advice drawn from personal experience.

[bryanky]

Originally Posted by lookingfornow

I suppose the short answer is that casual references are common and may or may not be a sign that she has this fantasy.

Reading your complete postings, it sounds like your wife may be a lot like mine. If your wife is at all like mine, her religious self-image is very important to her even though she is not zealous in the pursuit of her religion. She is likely willing to shed that self-image in the throes of passion only to need to grasp it even tighter after the passion has abated. So, getting her to open up to herself--let alone to you--regarding her true sexual thoughts and feelings is a challenge. Chances are that she simply doesn't want to think about the things that turn her on outside the context of the bedroom. And, once in the bedroom, she likely is too consumed by her arousal to share meaningfully anything about her thoughts and feelings.

Does this sound like your wife?

If it does, let me know, and I will continue with some advice drawn from personal experience.

Yes, this sounds very similar. I may have mentioned that we took nude pictures a couple of months back. I was totally caught off guard by her reaction. I could tell that she enjoyed showing off and feeling sexy. She literally took the camera from me and snapped away while I went down on her and later when I was having sex with her. Weeks later and it's not like it never happened. We don't mention it, if I bring up the topic, she'll say "maybe we'll do that again sometime." What I thought was a turning point really kind of dead ended. Anyways, sort of anticlimatic on my end.

Based on my experiences, the only meaningful time to share fantasies are the moments preceding lovemaking, usually as part of foreplay. We usually don't delve into fantasies much, but when we do it certainly fuels the fire. I have found that discussing fantasies, sex,etc. after sex is a waste of time. Usually my wife's thinking shifts to everyday routine matters. "Who's going to take our son to practice?" What color should we paint the bedroom walls"? In other words, sex is the last thing on her mind.

Regarding the swinging fantasy, it's like my wife and I have this silent chess match going on in our heads. I think about it often, and my wife has dropped too many clues for me to think of it as coincidence. It's a conversation that's begging to be had, but it's damn near impossible to find the perfect way to go about having it.

[lookingfornow]

Originally Posted by bryanky

It's a conversation that's begging to be had, but it's damn near impossible to find the perfect way to go about having it.

Given the apparent similarities, I will share with you my thoughts and insights. Maybe they will be useful--maybe not.

My wife is a very, very sexual person. Always has been in the bedroom. However, for the first 18 or so years of our marriage, it was like pulling teeth to get her to share her sexual thoughts and feelings with me. Also, while we were dating, she had no problem dressing provocatively and flirting with me both in public and in private. But, once we were married, she generally ceased all provocative behavior except in the bedroom and in connection with our sexual interaction.

Now, so long as she was sexual in the bedroom, her slightly more "prudish" exterior outside the bedroom was generally OK with me when we were first married. After all, I was getting what I wanted. But, over time, her inability or unwillingness to relate sexually outside the bedroom and outside of an aroused state became somewhat of a problem. We fell into a bit of a rut, sexually.

So, I focused on improving our overall sexual communication. I started to stress the need to discuss sex and sexuality outside the bedroom and outside the context of lovemaking. This was done with no thoughts of attempting to move into swinging--the swinging didn't come until later. But, instead, it was just generally necessary for me to move us out of our rut and begin to explore more and different approaches to lovemaking--more role play, more dress up, more fantasies, etc. Now, she very much resisted my efforts because her feelings were, "why talk about it--lets just do it!" But, I kept pressing her to open up to me and COMMUNICATE with me.

Here is the important point--COMMUNICATION is key. Until you can open the lines of communication, there is no point in even considering swinging. Until you are able to COMMUNICATE about sex, you will not be ready to swing (even if it is both of your deepest desires). Why? Because there are so many emotions that come out in swinging that any little communication problem will get amplified ten fold. After the first swinging event, you will have to be able to talk to one another openly and honestly about your thougths and feelings about the sex that took place. If you cannot do that about the sex you are having now and together, you have no hope of doing it about the sex that you have had with other partners.

Now, here is what I am sure will be the disappointing part for you...it took quite a while for me to get her to open up and communicate about sex outside the bedroom and outside arousal in a meaningful way. To this day, it is very difficult for her to do sometimes--but we are both getting better.

So, I think you are thinking wrong if you think you should lead with driving to a specific conversation that you think is "begging to be had." Nothing will drive her deeper into her sexual shell than the feeling that you are trying to drive to a particular place with your sexual relationship (even if it is a place she may secretly want to go). She will have to TRUST you in order to open up to you, and she will not TRUST you if she thinks you have a secret agenda.

Once she trusts you and once she opens up to you, then you may be in a position to explore whether she has or you have or you both have sexual fantasies around swinging. And, once you fully explore those fantasies together, you may be in a position to discuss dabbling in the deep end of the pool. But, from what you have described, you and your wife need to first spend some time working your way into the shallow end of the pool by learning to talk and communicate on sexual issues.

Also, it is possible that your wife may fully embrace the fantasy and never be willing to make it a reality.

It was literally years for us from when we first started communicating about sex until we decided to play. I will say that in the intervening time, our personal sex life improved (from my perspective) several fold--not that it was really all that bad to begin with. However, it is amazing how much better the sex becomes when the lines of communication are opened.

Good luck.

[Alura]

Originally Posted by bryanky

I know what you guys will say...Communicate! Honestly, I want so bad to share my fantasies, but I fear what the repercussions will be. Maybe I'm afraid of offending her or pushing her away.

Laura and I loved our communication and wanted to nourish it from the time we met. My late wife and I made an agreement on either our first or second date... don't really remember. The pledge to each other was that we would never become angry because a question was asked and would always try to answer it as completely as we could. "I don't want to talk about it!" was never acceptable. It worked for us for almost thirty years. We had a lot of "discussions" but the "spats" could have been counted on one hand.

We carried this idea over to our sons. We would never punish them for asking a question, no matter what it was. They know about our agreement and plan to carry it on in their own marriages, whenever it happens.

Before I sign off, one other question. Is it common or at least somwhat common to see Christian couples in the lifestyle?

My guess is that a similar percentage of Christians are in the lifestyle as in the general population, but probably not as many "Holy Rollers." There is at least one, and probably more, websites devoted to this. It may be Libchrist.com or something like that. Do a Google search for "Christian Swingers."

Best of luck!
Alura

[padoc]

You didn't know she was sexually conservative AND religious when you married her? If you did then you knew what you were getting. If you didn't, then I have to ask you why you married her? You knew right? Ok then.....you have three choices as I see it.
1. Live with your choice.
2. Divorce and find someone more in tune with your sexual desires.
3. Discuss what you'd like to change in your sex life and hope for the best.

Choosing option #3 may actually work for you but it is more likely that eventually you'll end up with either Option #1 or Option #2. Good luck, I see a rocky road ahead.

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by padoc

You didn't know she was sexually conservative AND religious when you married her? If you did then you knew what you were getting. If you didn't, then I have to ask you why you married her? You knew right? Ok then.....you have three choices as I see it.
1. Live with your choice.
2. Divorce and find someone more in tune with your sexual desires.
3. Discuss what you'd like to change in your sex life and hope for the best.

Choosing option #3 may actually work for you but it is more likely that eventually you'll end up with either Option #1 or Option #2. Good luck, I see a rocky road ahead.

Tell him what you really think!

Definitely go with number 3 !!!

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by bryanky

What I thought was a turning point really kind of dead ended. Anyways, sort of anticlimatic on my end.

ok...can I ask exactly what you thought was a turning point (and where it was turning to) about the picture taking escapade? Was it something hot and fun you and your wife did? Then why is it anti-climatic?

Why does her doing something "special" with you (ie the picture taking or sharing fantasies) seem to equate in your mind to "she wants to swing"...maybe she just feels safe to explore and say these things because she's feels comfortable and safe with you.

And of course after its all said and done, of course sex is the last thing on her mind...she just did it.

It has been said numerous times here on the board, sometimes fantasies are just that...most people have them, most people never take the initiative to make it happen and are quite content with the fantasy (and besides, you only have to cruise around the board to see stories where folks were disappointed that the reality was nothing like the fantasy).

[hughb]

You've been married seven years. By now she knows you have a pervy streak (I base this on the assumption that you're heterosexual and you have a pulse).

We're Christian and we are just in the dating stage now, meeting new couples every few weeks. But our conversation began with discussions on adultery. "Is dancing with someone else adulterous? How about kissing?"

Have more date weekends or nights that are conducive to these discussions.

Just get her to begin the process of assessing her premises and considering the possibilities. It could take a while, but you've got the rest of your lives to work on it.