Apart or Together???

[GeorgeofJungle]

Hi all,

Ursula and I are planning on going to a club in the near future. We've chatted with a few people here and we've talked with each other. One point that we seem to be at odds with most swingers is as follows:

It seems that the "typical" couples swap is initially same room sex. Alot of people are asking us if we're ready to watch each other. Well...is this is how I would envision a swap.

We meet with a couple. We go to a restaurant/lounge type of place. Ursula and the other man go to a table, myself and the other woman go to a table and we eat/drink/talk maybe even dance, if it's available with our prospective partner for a while. I guess this could happen at a club as well...don't know. If everybody is agreeable, we continue on.

At that point, it seems like, if we swap, everyone is urging us to do it in the same room...it's supposed to be a big turn on for me to watch Ursula and her to watch me. Well...maybe it is.

But, is it strange or even dangerous (i.e. too much jealousy/attachment) for us to consider that we would like to be near to each other (i.e. adjacent rooms, where we could hear each other) without being right on top of each other and watching each other with another partner?

I guess I'm just wondering why it's almost 100% assumed that, if we swap, I will be right there watching her get laid.

Thanks all.

[exploringRM]

One reason that comes to mind is comfort/security. But if you are comfortable with the situation then there is no rule that says you have to do same room. Many couples ARE same room swap only so you need to understand your prospective swap partners rules in this.

I can say from experience that it is fun to be all 4 in a room with all that is going, but it can be distracting as well. We'll do separate or same room depending on the situation.

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

It seems that the "typical" couples swap is initially same room sex.

Interesting post...

It does seem to be the norm but there are LOTS of couples that do together OR separate rooms. You just have to look out for them and most profiles will say if they do separate rooms.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

We meet with a couple. We go to a restaurant/lounge type of place. Ursula and the other man go to a table, myself and the other woman go to a table and we eat/drink/talk maybe even dance, if it's available with our prospective partner for a while. I guess this could happen at a club as well...don't know. If everybody is agreeable, we continue on.

This one might be harder but take that from a couple that has only been in the lifestyle for less than a year. As a guy, I want to make sure that the guy my wife might be sleeping with isn't a jackass so I prefer to at least be a part of the meet and greet but we are a couple that prefers to swing together in the same room. There are plenty of people here on this site that talk about their wives/SO's meeting people and having personal encounters but I think that is a little different than to plan two separate "apart" dates with a couple.

I think, if we ever did play apart, that I would still want to be there for initial introductions. I would not want my wife to possibly be alone with someone I did not know and could possibly be psycho. Maybe the 3rd or 4th time you could schedule separate dates but I'd still consider meeting together and then playing separate rooms after all worked out.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

At that point, it seems like, if we swap, everyone is urging us to do it in the same room...it's supposed to be a big turn on for me to watch Ursula and her to watch me. Well...maybe it is.

This is all about personal preference. There are common threads that uniquely bond people together in this lifestyle but everyone in the lifestyle is also unique. They all have personal likes and dislikes.

We really do enjoy watching each other have sex with another couple in the same room. We had a great weekend with a new couple we just met and it's always exciting to see what we will each do with people when we don't know what to expect but that is our preference.

The reason we play together is because we like for the experiences to be about us as partners and not us as individuals. Those are the things that you have to weigh personally when making your decisions about what you want to get out of the lifestyle. Other things about being in the same room is you have the ability to do mini-MFM or FMF here and there that you can't do when playing apart.

The most important thing is that you and your wife/SO are talking through it and communication is key. You can adjust as you get experiences under your belt and talk about what you like and didn't like and make adjustments. At the end of the day, it's about what makes you and your wife happy.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

But, is it strange or even dangerous (i.e. too much jealousy/attachment) for us to consider that we would like to be near to each other (i.e. adjacent rooms, where we could hear each other) without being right on top of each other and watching each other with another partner?

This is another reason why we play together. I know what my wife is doing and she knows what I'm doing. I can honestly say that I have absolutely no jealousy when we play together. Would it be the same if we played apart? I have no idea, we may one day migrate that way but for the moment we are perfectly happy with the same room scenarios.

When we first did our swaps, we would keep an eye on each other closely and we had our signs we would watch out for in case one or the other started to feel uneasy. We are lucky we never had to use them but it's okay to stop the play at anytime anyone gets uncomfortable. Never forget that.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

I guess I'm just wondering why it's almost 100% assumed that, if we swap, I will be right there watching her get laid.

Thanks all.

I think this come back to what a majority of people like but it doesn't mean everyone likes it or that you have to like it. You can get anything you want out of this lifestyle. It might take you a little longer to find it but all you have to do is put what you want in your profile and eventually you will meet someone who is like minded.

You do not have to conform by any means.

I hope I helped in some way. I'm sure you will get lots of other posts here.

[Alura]

When we first started playing it never occurred to us to do anything except separate rooms until the female of our playcouple suggested it might be fun if we all stayed in the den in front of the fireplace.

After that, it seemed we'd start out in separate rooms and gather in the den for the second round, the best of both worlds, No?

Mr. Alura

[cplnuswing]

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

It seems that the "typical" couples swap is initially same room sex. Alot of people are asking us if we're ready to watch each other.

As you say, same room is probably the most common, but it has some pros and cons. We've done both (with separate meaning adjoining rooms), and don't really have a strong preference. What we are up for depends on the situation and the people involved.

If you are the type that a big part of the turn-on is seeing your partner with someone else, then the choice is obvious. When it comes to trying to head off the jealousy issue, then it's not so clear. Some feel more jealousy when they can't see what is going on with their mate, while others are more comfortable with an out of sight, out of mind approach that allows them to focus on just themselves and their playmate for the best experience.

One bit of advice we learned from personal experience would be that if both couples are newbies, then a same room scenario can get overwhelming pretty quickly for some. If one or both of the other couple go into sensory overload and can't focus on their playmate for wanting to keep up with what their partner is doing, then it is probably going to be a less than satisfying night for some.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

We meet with a couple. We go to a restaurant/lounge type of place. Ursula and the other man go to a table, myself and the other woman go to a table and we eat/drink/talk maybe even dance, if it's available with our prospective partner for a while. I guess this could happen at a club as well...don't know. If everybody is agreeable, we continue on.

A few private moments alone with a potential playmate as kind of a final compatibility check, whether its a dance or two, sharing a drink at a different table, or whatever, isn't a bad idea. But, before it gets to that point, we first want some time with both couples together. Both of us have veto power, and need to have a good feeling about the person the other of us might be playing with. Doesn't need to take hours, but we do want to have a feel for them, even if it's based on just a relatively short time, and to develop that together.

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

At that point, it seems like, if we swap, everyone is urging us to do it in the same room...it's supposed to be a big turn on for me to watch Ursula and her to watch me. Well...maybe it is.

But, is it strange or even dangerous (i.e. too much jealousy/attachment) for us to consider that we would like to be near to each other (i.e. adjacent rooms, where we could hear each other) without being right on top of each other and watching each other with another partner?

I guess I'm just wondering why it's almost 100% assumed that, if we swap, I will be right there watching her get laid.

It's not a rule that it has to be a turn on. It is for some more than others, and for some probably not at all. What you have to be comfortable with is not that you will be able to take visually being right there "watching her get laid" but rather that you are ok with the knowledge that she is going to get laid by someone other than you. At the end of the night, that is what you are going to have to deal with, whether you actually saw it happen or not.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

Well...is this is how I would envision a swap.

We meet with a couple. We go to a restaurant/lounge type of place. Ursula and the other man go to a table, myself and the other woman go to a table and we eat/drink/talk maybe even dance, if it's available with our prospective partner for a while. I guess this could happen at a club as well...don't know. If everybody is agreeable, we continue on.

There are many couples who have no issue playing in separate rooms but I think you might have a harder time making the above happen. Typically (at least on first meets) it's best for everyone if you meet as a foursome. This allows the husbands to meet and feel comfortable with the other husbands (and approve of them for their wives) and the same for the wives. There are couples who have open relationships that go out separately and play separately with no need for the other partners to even meet (if there are other partners at all). If that's what you prefer then you will want to make that clear to those you wish to swing with.

I doubt you'll find that to work in a swinger club environment. While you'll find some couples who won't mind splitting up to play, most couples don't show up at the clubs and then split up to meet others.

[GeorgeofJungle]

Seems that there is confusion as to my intentions. I always intended for all four to meet initially. It just seems like it would be nice to get to talk to each other one on one at some point. My main question is about when it comes right down to it. It seems that it's almost assumed that I'll be practically breathing down my wife's neck when she is playing with her partner. I think it would be fun to take advantage of the voyeuristic opportunities allowed by couples play; but sex is also about attention, closeness and attraction...even if it is without deep emotions (or am I missing something here?)

I've seen posts where the husband is coaching his wife to make eye contact with him while she is playing with another man. I've also seen posts that mention the dangers of closeness and emotional attachment, jealosy...all that...

I'm not even saying that we have to be in separate rooms...I guess I'm trying to find out how much personal space is usually allowed to people when they are playing. I mean, to me, eye contact and other sensual aspects of sex are a big turn on. I don't know if I'd be having a great time if my partner was being distracted too much; and I don't know if my wife would like me distracting her when she's playing. Although...I don't think she would think I was "distracting" her if it was an MMF situation :-)

She and I have talked about this...I guess we'll talk about it some more; and we'll talk about it with anybody that we would be meeting. I want to make sure that we're all OK and that we all have a good time.

There is a book called "communicology" that I recently read (well, skimmed)...has some very interesting reading regarding personal space and such...anyway...thanks for the advice all.

George

[The Fuse]

George,

You've no doubt figured out that everyone has a different opinion and preference in the matter. There are many couples who will never want to be out of each other's sight even before you all reach the bedroom. They might have had a bad experience with someone trying to separate them or they might just be cautious. There are others who are much more comfortable drifting physically apart and then back together. Simple as that.

[Edison Carter]

Susan here--Seems like you're trying to create perfection without the experience that would provide insight to attain a great experience. It's a loop that can create a failure.

Also, you seem to be very interested in creating a separate, almost dating experience that resolves itself in separate room sex. That is really unlikely. Swinging is typically some form of a shared experience and it seems like one, or both, of you is desiring a separated experience.

Are you sure that what you aren't actually after is an open marriage ?

[lizandtom]

Originally Posted by GeorgeofJungle

It seems that it's almost assumed that I'll be practically breathing down my wife's neck when she is playing with her partner. I think it would be fun to take advantage of the voyeuristic opportunities allowed by couples play; but sex is also about attention, closeness and attraction...even if it is without deep emotions (or am I missing something here?)

I've seen posts where the husband is coaching his wife to make eye contact with him while she is playing with another man.

George, we're in sync with what you're trying to convey and describes our preference to a tee. Because we are very secure with each other, an initial dinner, chat or over drinks for familiarity is comfort enough so that we can head to separate rooms if our play partners are comfortable too.

For us, it's a big turnoff for our play partners to constantly be distracted by having to watch their partners next or close to us, whether for any type of insecurity issue or even if that is what is getting them off to a certain degree. In our case we're doing a swap because we'd like the experience of another person that has turned us on, not to used as a shell while the real turn on is coming from watching their SO. With us it's physical and mental sensuality that completes the picture. We've taken it so far as to meet up then split to go our own separate ways to a club or bar, then a hotel room, then all four meeting up a few hours later to head home.

So no, I don't think you are off base at all if you two are that secure in your relationship and you find chemistry with others that are as well.

[DigginIt]

I also wanted to add that you two really seem to be doing the right thing by having some good discussions about the lifestyle before jumping in.

I would say that LizandTom are probably a perfect example that you CAN find what you want and that should be very encouraging for you.

I would also say that I agree with Edison Carter in the fact that you may be setting yourself up for failure by setting a lot of expectations. Your first couple attempts are going to be a learning experience that will allow you to adapt and find out more about what you like and dislike. There is such a thing as too much analyzing and sometimes some sound field research is needed to gain the experience.

[GeorgeofJungle]

Originally Posted by Edison Carter

Susan here--Seems like you're trying to create perfection without the experience that would provide insight to attain a great experience. It's a loop that can create a failure.

Also, you seem to be very interested in creating a separate, almost dating experience that resolves itself in separate room sex. That is really unlikely. Swinging is typically some form of a shared experience and it seems like one, or both, of you is desiring a separated experience.

Are you sure that what you aren't actually after is an open marriage ?

hi susan. ursula here. yes i have read all the posts and quite frankly most irritated with yours. no, we are not looking for an open marriage. Im sorry but the thought of another woman pleasing my husband does not turn me on and i dont think it will even if we try it. I am well aware of the pleasure my husband gives me and I know any woman would be very fortunate to be pleasured in every way by this handsome, sexy and fun loving man that i am lucky to be married to. He truly is my soul mate and I believe I am his.
We are discussing this swinging thing a lot. Maybe too much, I dont know. But I can honestly say that since we have approached this subject about swinging that we have been very close and have talked much easier about a lot of subjects and concerns in our every day lives as well.
I also want to say that having sex is not done by reading a book. So, dont misunderstand what we are asking about it here. We all have our own preferences. I for one, dont want to be mechanical in a bedroom. I love to feel with my whole being and give everything I have to the one I am laying down with.
So, with that being said. I hope noone is offended by my reply. All of your advice is being noted. I dont know maybe the swinging world isnt for George and I but I guess that is something we are going to decide amongst us. But thank you to everyone for their inputs and advice.

[The Fuse]

Ursula,

Sorry you haven't been thrilled with the responses. I've been around this Board for a few years now and I can say that aside from a few cranky people, most responders to any question will only have your best interests in mind. I didn't think Susan's was out of line even if she did suggest something that you dismiss as not applicable.

When you ask for opinions, you will get them. Sometimes they don't sound gentle (and sometimes they're not), but they are usually written out of good motives. Someone is taking the time to respond to you and give you their thoughts. We all hope our thoughts will be helpful. If they are not, you can ignore them. Typing in anger to a well-meaning response only makes you look overly sensitive, which is definitely not a quality that will help you have a good experience with another couple.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. It sounds like whatever you get out of your discussions, you've already gained some of the benefits just by having them.

[GeorgeofJungle]

Actually I did appreciate the advice. Others on this board obviously have experienced all different situations when it comes to swinging. I do respect that. I did respond a little out of anger and for that i do apologize. Im not sure where George and I will go with this situation, if we will ever swing at all. But, like I said it has already made us stronger in so many other aspects of our every day communication with each other. And for this, I am very thankful.

[GeorgeofJungle]

Hi...George here...ummmmm

Introductions are in order...Ursula, meet the illustrious readers of the swingers forums...illustrious readers of the swingers forums, meet Ursula.

Ok...so everybody play nice now.

(Awkward silence)

Anyway Ursula and I have carried this debate on in the swinger's chat room with a few people for a while. We've discussed many, many aspects of what may or may not happen...while we didn't discuss forum etiquette...(sorry people).

By the way, she flatters me. Don't believe it all. Although I do agree with her on the soul mate part.

We were married young and have carried and/or dragged each other through one trial of fire after another, maybe that's why, even though we have been exclusive for a long, long time; and we're new to the idea of swinging...we still probably feel more comfortable separated than your average swinger. Open marriage? It's a matter of semantics...not sure if our ideas fit any distinct definition.

As far as setting ourselves up for failure? Well...in this case failure is an option. I mean, doesn't everything in life turn out one of three ways: 1. You get what you want. 2. You fail to get what you want and leave it that way 3. You settle for something different or less than what you want.

If we fail to get what we want out of a club or party experience...it's no big deal...the discussions of the past few weeks have given us an even stronger marriage to fall back on while we sort things out. Heck, we could just use a night out together anyway.