We are starting today, requesting advice

[AandP]

I really want to thank everyone who has responded so far. It really helps us to go into this with our eyes open. Still, we know that every situation is unique, and we want to take steps to have a positive experience.

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

Two weeks does not a fix make though. If my wife and I were the other couple for you, we wouldn't be interested in playing with you. Socialize? Sure. Play? No. I see too many potential drama bombs going off.

I don't think you're not capable of being swingers period. Please don't take this that way. I'm just saying that right now, at this moment, at this point...you're not ready.

So, to say that something needed fixing implies something was broken. Perhaps you misunderstood my post, but we don't feel something was broken. Something was missing, and it's there now. That would be the romantic spark I talked about.

And yes, 2 weeks (well, 4 now) are enough to know it is back. Is it here to stay? I don't know, but we are committed to keeping it alive right now. Right now is all any of us has. Can anyone answer that question about themselves with 100% certainty?

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

Forget about David. Some might say that's not fair, since you got to play but she didn't. So what? What is incredibly more important, by several orders of magnitude, is the relationship you have with your wife. THAT is fair.

Amazing advice, and thank you for it. We had already completed the David issue. In fact, we both knew it was done before I posted. I just want to give her a chance to experience something herself, and was feeling selfish about my having an experience before her. In truth, there is far too much danger there for either of us, and we do not want to risk any chance of damaging our relationship.

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

You're not ready to swing right now. Any feeling that you "owe one" to your wife is bad, bad news. It's not tit for tat, and you should never ever feel compelled to agree to your wife playing or she you, most especially if it's taking one for the team, so to speak.

So how do we know when we are ready?

Frankly, we don't think we can ever "know" we are ready. We can only prepare for it smartly, and then choose to do it or to not do it (yes, I am channeling Yoda, but it seems to apply). One thing I can say is that we get you really care to give us advice to keep us as safe as possible from proceeding too fast. What should we be looking for to let us know that we may be ready to start?

Also, I just got what you all mean when you say "taking one for the team". I assumed it meant that it meant being willing to be with someone you are not attracted to so your partner can be with someone they are interested in. Now I see it has many more meanings, including this one. Thanks for showing me that.

Great advice, bbarnsworth, and thank you for caring.

A and P

[fun4Ds]

Something just seems out of kilter here for me..... I have asked Mrs fun's opinion about this situation, more than once. Maybe I just don't get the full dynamics of your relationship. I listened so far hoping for the best, but expecting the worst, given your information.

Your first post:

Seems like you had full control over the situation....

I mean, you sent your wife out on a date and while sitting at home waiting, you decided that now would be a good time to ask for advice ?

Rules were established that nothing could happen without permission first. You gave permission to kiss, as I see it, with a man you know nothing about ? Other than your wife wanted emotional involvement as well as sexual ? How could you have been sitting at home waiting for her to get home with the results of the evening ? Sounds like you broke your own rules..... No cell phone ?

I think you knew the chances of her hooking up, were slim to none.

Then, conveniantly.... you had two women on the line, well, one has been downed ? Were they even of the swingers mentality ? Did P know them or even get a chance to know them ? That happened pretty quick ! It almost seems premeditated, to me..... Now, her choice is over and done with ?

Who's controlling who here ?

I think you concocted all of this to get your wife to fear loosing you ! And she does now ! (thats how it sounds)

Call it tit for tat or what ever, but I could not possibly send Mrsfun on a mission of solo play, without having both of us finding single playmates (and we know them) on the same night. Not the first time......Knowing nothing ?

I think you foolishly gave up your veto power and now you wife sits with a full hand of suited trump cards, including the right and left Bauer.You can take this as a grain of salt, as we don't play solo. I think you came sliding in sideways to the lifestyle and P, has her mind together. She just needs some breathing room, if the lifestyle is for her.

But you, used the lifestyle, one of the worst things to do.....Pandora, takes care of her own...

I'm not really trying to bash you AandP, I hope you can clarify more.... Maybe P, can give us insight as well. There is nothing I can hope for more now, than to apologize for being wrong and welcome you both, to the Swingers Board. If not, I am so happy you two found, a nearly lost love.....

[quietlykinky]

OK, LOOONG response here, sorry about that. Trying to be helpful.

-----------------------------------

We asked that question at one point too, "How do we know we are ready?". We recieved a simple one liner email that explained it all for us.

You know you're ready when you can talk about it over breakfast, as casually as you talk about your dinner plans.

It sounds rather straight forward but there is a lot implied there. You have to have gone through some stages and had a lot of open and honest discussions in order to get that comfortable with it. Perhaps we are not the norm but we discussed it for about 6 months before we decided we were ready move forward with it. If you're still worried about either of you being jealous or becoming emotionally attached to someone else, you're not ready.

There are a few things here that concern me and mind you, these are just my opinions and are not meant to be accusatory:

Originally Posted by AandP

I had already been talking with someone about our fantasies and so approaching her was easy. We planned to meet the week after Thanksgiving at a hotel for a few hours.

How long had you been discussing this with others? Did your wife know you were having these conversations? Swinging is something you do together, as a couple. It's vital that you share every detail with your SO.

Originally Posted by AandP

Her first reaction was one of anger and jealousy. She was mostly mad at herself for allowing it to happen.

Between this and the previous quote, it sounds an awful lot like you're way more hot for this than she is. It sounds like it was still only a fantasy for her and in spite of what she might have said, she may not really have been ready to see that fantasy materialize. Maybe it was strictly her fantasy to be with this David and allowing you to fantasize about another women was her way of rationalizing her own fantasy.

Originally Posted by AandP

What happened next was about 4 hours of discussion about our relationship, what we wanted going forward, what we wanted out of the possibility of swinging, and what both my and her fantasies were really all about.

You really should have talked about this before playing with others. It's the kind of thing that should have come up in conversation when contemplating the ramifications that this could have on your relationship. If it didn't come up then, I don't think you talked about it seriously enough. Merely talking about it as a fantasy, in bed or hypothetically, is not talking about it. That's just fantasizing.

Originally Posted by AandP

She revealed to me that she was looking for more than just a sexual experience. She had come to the conclusion that we were not a romantic couple any more, and she was looking for a replacement for me to regain a spark that was missing for her. I was also looking for a spark, but she was really looking for someone else to be romantic with. At this point, I became convinced that we may have been breaking up right then and there.

If this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is. What exactly does she mean by the word "romantic"? That word has a different meaning for everyone and not everyone has a realistic idea of romance in the long term. Did she make any attempts to revitalize the romance in your relationship before this or did she simply write it off as impossible to resurrect? If the latter is the case, your relationship does have real problems that are only going to be exacerbated by having sex with others.

Again, this is not an accusation or even an assessment of your relationship. It's a question.

Originally Posted by AandP

We have questions for those of you who would like to continue to assist us. First and foremost, what next? How do we proceed at this point?

More discussion, lots more. I'm worried that what you're feeling now might just be a temporary high and granted, long term relationships are all about highs and lows. It's just the way it works. But it may not be that, you may have genuinely tapped into something that is just what your relationship needed.

Moving on, my answer would be to proceed together. Meet several other couples and get a wider sense of how different people make this lifestyle work for them. If/when you do decide to play, do that together as well and save the separate play for further down the road. For now, experience this as a couple.

Originally Posted by AandP

We have made contact with another couple in our area we met off of Swing Lifestyle.

Excellent!

Originally Posted by AandP

We plan only dinner at this point... What should we bring to dinner?

Condoms, even if you're not planning on doing anything and I think that's the best plan however, don't be caught unprepared. We never plan on doing anything on the first date and never have but we always bring condoms just in case. Beyond that, be forth coming about your rules and what kind of play you're looking for. Ask them about their rules and how they like to play. Everyone appreciates frankness and honesty in this lifestyle.

Originally Posted by AandP

Also, P is still interested in this David guy, but in a much more sexual way. I am not sure it is a good idea that they meet since the feelings may still be there....

Stop right there, that's all you need to know. Feelings are for the two of you only, not for others, and they have a way of creeping back up when things get physical.

In my opionion, based off of what you've said here, I don't think you're ready. I don't mean don't swing, I mean don't do it right now. Talk more, ride this high that the two of you are on for a bit longer and keep on talking. Talk, talk, talk.

[metroman]

Originally Posted by AandP

Well, time sure has gotten away from us. It has been a couple of weeks since last we posted, and a lot has happened since then. The short answer to Julie's question is, Yes, there are updates.

We will catch you up quickly and then we have new and exciting questions. First, nothing happened on Thanksgiving. P never got close enough to the other guy (David) to start anything on Thanksgiving, and it will not be until Dec 20th before she works there again. More on this guy later...

Seeing that P was not going to get a chance for a while, she asked me (A) to set something up for myself with another woman to see how that went. I had already been talking with someone about our fantasies and so approaching her was easy. We planned to meet the week after Thanksgiving at a hotel for a few hours. It was a complete eye opener for both of us and the results have been amazing.

For me (A), I was able to be reminded that I could satisfy a woman sexually. I really had become disconnected with myself as a sexual being, and after so many years of just going through the motions, it was great to re-discover myself. I also was able to get very clear who P is for me, and discovered just how lucky a man I am to have P as my partner. I did not know how talented she is in some areas sexually since I had nothing to compare her to.

For P, she was out that night and she got home after I did. Her first reaction was one of anger and jealousy. She was mostly mad at herself for allowing it to happen. What happened next was about 4 hours of discussion about our relationship, what we wanted going forward, what we wanted out of the possibility of swinging, and what both my and her fantasies were really all about.

She revealed to me that she was looking for more than just a sexual experience. She had come to the conclusion that we were not a romantic couple any more, and she was looking for a replacement for me to regain a spark that was missing for her. I was also looking for a spark, but she was really looking for someone else to be romantic with. At this point, I became convinced that we may have been breaking up right then and there.

I told her that I wanted the spark back too, but that I wanted to explore swinging as a way for us to enjoy each other more. I did not want to replace her, which she had assumed was what I was wanted too. I explained that her possible affair with David would not work for me since what she really wanted with him would not only not work for her (or him), but be devastating to our relationship as well. Something shifted for both of us at this point.

I will let her post her own comments in a separate thread about what she felt at this point, but what happened was that we actually became romantic and connected again. It started feeling like we were 25-30 years ago, when we first met and got married. What an interesting result we got out of this.

Now, timing is everything, and I actually was scheduled out of town the next evening for 2 days of training. In retrospect, it was perfect timing. I went out of town, and she stayed home to “process”. That night, I started getting messages on my phone from her. These messages had pictures attached of her in very sexy lingerie. Further, we had phone sex for our first time in over two decades. The next day, she went out and bought more naughty apparel and sent more pictures the next night, along with more phone sex. When I came home, she picked me up at the airport wearing some of her new attire under her coat. This is not the same lady I have been married to all this time. This had never happened, even when we were dating. Quite frankly, our first “lifestyle” experience was better than I could have hoped it would be, and we are so much more secure and connected because of it.

During these last two weeks, we have had romantic dates including massage, dinners, and even a helicopter ride at night. She is sharing her fantasies more openly and they are far more sexual that she was willing to admit to me before. She actually started to approach the lifestyle with the same thoughts that I have been. That it could be fun for us to share these experiences, that we could enjoy sex with others for fun without romantic involvement, and that we could actually enjoy our relationship at a deeper level than ever before. We both are still unsure about what will happen, but we are going into it as a solid, secure couple.

If you hung with this very long post up to this point, thank you. We have questions for those of you who would like to continue to assist us. First and foremost, what next? How do we proceed at this point? We are a lot clearer on what might be available and our eyes are open a lot wider now. Further, both of us seem to be aligned now.

We have made contact with another couple in our area we met off of Swing Lifestyle. We plan to meet them next week for dinner, just to get questions answered and see what might happen. We plan only dinner at this point, and don’t think we will go beyond that. However, we want to be prepared, so what have we not thought of? What should we bring to dinner?

Also, P is still interested in this David guy, but in a much more sexual way. I am not sure it is a good idea that they meet since the feelings may still be there. However, I do feel that I owe her one since I had my experience with someone else already. Advice, please?

Finally, are there others of you out there who have experienced this new level of closeness? We know each situation is unique, but we would love to hear about your experiences.

One last thought, we are grateful that this board exists. It has given us an outlet for asking questions, and a place to post our feelings and experiences in a safe environment. Thank you for that.

A and P

It's amazing what COMMUNICATION will do ! Why are you having such a Hot time? You COMMUNICATED ! My opinion, David is a "No", move on to someone else (danger here). Enjoy what you have, take some time to "smell the roses"......savor the moment & reborn feelings instead of rushing to the next moment. Don't let the enthusiasm cause you to lose sight of what you have!