Newbees: Eager to start but getting tired of fakes and letdowns!

[EagerCouple]

I think this is common but how common is it really. My wife and I are ready and eager to actively start swinging. We have gone to clubs, we have found couples and single females on local boards, we have texted, we have chatted and we have even had dinner with a couple of couples and drinks with one unicorn.

Conversation goes really well on the web and on the phones. What we are finding more often than not is the following.

a) Got to finally meet, things going good. Bring it up then never hear back
(Troll or Fake)

b) Other people bring up a meet then they start calling it off multiple times. Heck you asked for the date, not us and once we say yes you back off??
(Not a troll or fake since both female and male side has been verified on phone)

c) Send out an e-mail (dozens of them) and people just never bother to
have the courtesy to even respond. The profile even says looking to meet everyone, if you are not interersted that is fine don't be shy just say so.

d) Meet one or two times, "dates" go great and the other couple or female even state they are interested in more...then nothing.

It's starting to give us a bit of a complex and just wanting to call it quits, it sometimes does not seem worth the price we are paying for no results. I am a man and men are "trained" to hear no or face rejection from an early age in sexual situations. My wife on the other hand..women don't get turned down that often and it seems to be bothering her more personally than me. I am just tired of spending time e-mailing, sending photos, talking on the phone everything going well and then nothing....Feels like a waste since we are maybe 80/0 that's 80 contacts and 0 encounters.

Maybe I am just venting maybe I am curious but what is so difficult in a person saying "thanks but no thanks" and not wasting everyone's time?! The lifestyle has a lot of roots in openness, well we sure are not seeing a lot of that belief in people involved in the lifestyle.

We are almost ready to give up on swingers and move over to regular bars and clubs and trying our hand with vanilla's since we have never seen this amount of "snobbery" and "rudeness" with non-lifestyle people. We know that the odd's will be against us with vanilla's but we are venturing to say that at least they will have a laugh and say "sorry I or we don't go that way".

For the curious ones no we are not Ken and Barbie but we have all our teeth, we don't chew and spit tobacco at the dinner table (at least not me HA!) and we don't set our expectations high with couples 10 years younger than us or the local gym fitness pinup girl. We are HWP, in our late 30's early 40's and have been told by close friends NOT in the lifestyle that we don't look our age and can go for early to mid 30's. We do send REAL CURRENT photos to these contacts and they continue even after receiving them so it's not that we turn them off visually.

WTF ??!! Anyone willing to lend a helping hand and give us some one on one advice? I don't think we are doing anything wrong but maybe we are. I feel like I am running out of time here, my wife was really getting into the lifestyle idea but I just say idea since we have only had one encounter.That was 5 years ago BEFORE we considered ourselves in the lifestyle. It was a vanilla friend of ours and it just happened, we were not out there looking for it. With all this negative energy she is seeing she is starting to lose interest in even trying, she is no longer interested in sending out e-mails to people and tell's me to handle it.

[ncmd_couple]

EagerCouple,

Honestly, I think that you are putting to much thought into this. I think that right now all of us are under a lot of stress in our lives and things just don't always work out. The hard part is keeping your chin up and keep on going. We have been swinging almost three years and even though we have met a lot of people, very nice people, so far we have only hit it off with a few. That is life. You have to keep looking until you come across the people that you gel with. Yes, it is a numbers game, just like you went through to meet your wife. Just keep looking until you find the right ones.

S

[SecretAsianMan]

There are a lot of flakes out there... especially if you're hunting through "classified ad"-type sites (AFF, CraigsList, etc.) ...I've found that local groups are better (there are at least a dozen yahoo-groups of local swingers in my area that I'm a part of) and while it's necessary to sift through all the people you're not interested in ... most of them are "real" and want to get together for good times.

[bbarnsworth]

Your lament is a common one. There are behaviors you can adopt that tend to limit the amount of energy you spend on fakes and flakes.

Some couples refuse to meet new contacts outside of a swing club. This can be effective; some flakes won't do it. Too risky for them. If they do set it up, and they don't show, you can still have a good time since there will be other swingers at the club.

Some couples (like us) don't spend a ton of time in e-mail, chat, or on the phone. We move to meet and greet pretty quickly unless the situation prevents a meet and greet from happening soon for whatever reason. A meet and greet is worth 10,000 words, is better than photos, is better than phone calls. You can cover everything in person in ten minutes that all the e-mails, phone calls, and chats could cover period.

Some couples don't give second (or, in our case third depending on the circumstance) chances. If you flake, you're done. Our time is valuable. Our swing time is limited. If you don't respect it and waste our time, on to the next.

You can send e-mails, but what is in them can make a difference. Simple one liners don't usually cut it.

Adapt your profile, it's your main advertising space. Make yourself stand out; why do you want to be with us? Add photos if you're not getting enough traffic. They don't have to be explicit (that's up to you) but pics that show general body type, fashion style, etc...can make a HUGE difference in the success of your profile.

We ran into a lot of what you have in getting into swinging. Once we decided to actually swing, it took months to get to soft swap. It took months past that to get to full swap. I remember lamenting once "Do swingers actually have sex?"

Hang in there It will be all worth it once it all clicks with the right couple/single. The first one or more swap might not be the right mix. Once you find the right mix, look out! SWINGING IS AWESOME!

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by EagerCouple

d) Meet one or two times, "dates" go great and the other couple or female even state they are interested in more...then nothing.

This is the part I'm interested in hearing more about.

The other stuff... it really does happen a lot. But if you are meeting in person, getting signs of interest and then nothing, then something is keeping you from "converting". I have no idea what it could be, other than just very bad luck. Just throwing out questions-- Are you meeting with other new people, who might have more nerves, or perhaps more experienced people, who might think you have nerves? Is it possible your potential playmates are seeing something that makes them hesitate? Are you prepared to play on the first or second date, or are you wanting someone to set up a "play date" explicitly?

I do think you might be happier if you went to a club where you could go from first meet to play without a lot of hurdles in the way.

[NealnAnji]

Great advice from the previous posts. If you want to catch fish you have fish where the fish are biting.

The best venues to find likeminded couples are the clubs, meet-n-greets, and, also lifestyle or lifestyle-oriented resorts. Here the couples you will meet all have the same objective, that is, to meet likeminded, fun-loving couples, with whom you can play, swap mates and have sex in a variety of ways.

Also, do not forget that it takes time and effort to find compatible couple/s with whom you would like to swap partners for social as well as sexual intercourse. It,s a two-way street.

Eventually, patience will pay off and you will enjoy the lifestyle in its social and sexual dimension. You will then wonder what all the fuss was about. After all there are millions of couples world-wide who swing, play, and, swap mates with other couples for enjoyment of recreational sex with a variety of partners.

[bbarnsworth]

From another thread you said your wife has absolutely zero interest in having any kind of contact with other men. This may have a GREAT deal to do with your lack of progress in swinging.

Most couples are not going to be interested in sharing only one spouse or the other for an encounter with another couple. They usually both want to be involved. This may be why initial contacts with some couples go great then sour once they learn what you are looking for. "That's not for us"

If the only thing you are looking for is a unicorn, it's going to take a long, long time to find what you seek. Can it be done? Yes, but it will take a long time. A few months is nothing in that context. It may take years to find a unicorn to play with.

That should not mean your wife should feel compelled to change her stance. Nothing of the sort. But, you should be pragmatic and understand what you're up against. In trying to find couples willing to share their wife only or unicorns, you are in a small niche in the swinging world.

[lookingfornow]

Great advice above. I would add that when we meet or talk to a couple, we look very carefully for any signs of "drama" in the other couple. By "drama," I mean any indication that one party is pushing the other into situations that are not welcome. This is particularly true with couples who are relatively new to the scene. So, if you are giving off such vibes, that may be a problem.

Also, are you disclosing all of your significant play restrictions prior to the meeting? For example, if you are only interested in one type of group sex contact (let's say female-female only) and only want to watch and be watched otherwise, is that something that clearly appears in your profile? Personally, we are a full swap couple. Shared voyeurism is not really our thing. So, we would not be interested in playing even if we thought you were the most wonderful couple in the world. Further, we would be somewhat upset if we first heard about such a restriction or expectation at a meeting.

[good times]

I too have read your previous post in which you said your wife has zero interest in men. If that is still the case it is no surprise to me at all that you are having no luck. Frankly, I have never met anyone that would be interested in a couple in which the woman will not play with men.

On the other hand, we have met a number of couples recently who do have a woman who will only play with other women. Unfortunately, they have about the same success rate at hooking up as you are having.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by good times

I too have read your previous post in which you said your wife has zero interest in men. If that is still the case it is no surprise to me at all that you are having no luck. Frankly, I have never met anyone that would be interested in a couple in which the woman will not play with men.

On the other hand, we have met a number of couples recently who do have a woman who will only play with other women. Unfortunately, they have about the same success rate at hooking up as you are having.

Oh.

Yes, if you are not bringing up what you're looking for-- or not looking for-- very soon after initiating contact, and before meeting in person, then you're setting yourself up and wasting everyone's time. If your wife has no interest in other men, that needs to be said up front, in your online profile AND when you first start emailing, chatting etc.

These four little words save everyone a lot of trouble: "What are you into?" And then flipping the coin: telling the other couple what YOU are into.

[JustAskJulie]

Have you tried going to a swinger club or social? We find that to be a much better ROI than the dinner date thing. We can meet people, play that night if we want to or not, and we can meet many couples in one night, so no wasted dinners.

Another thing, how long do you expect to get to know people before you play? You mention you've had at least one instance where you saw them multiple times but nothing happened. What we've found is that the likelihood of playing decreases, the longer the time between first meet and potential playtime.

[EagerCouple]

Thanks for all the replies they were all appreciated. We are a full paid member of a somewhat local web site and have attended a local club 4 times in about the past 3 months. Our profile have RECENT photos from straight to cute/hot in the public pages (no faces) to HOT but not HARDcore in the private pages with face pics. We are fully truthfull in the profile and do state that she is not interested in male penetration, we believe in fully disclosing everything because we are REAL. We are going to meet and WTF! if you lie and you meet what the heck is that going to get you? I know if it were us we would be upset and the other person or couple would not get anything anyway so why people bother with false advertisements I have no idea.

As far as the comments about bad luck with only girl/girl play or girl/girl full swap and couple soft play I got to disagree with that a bit even as a newbee. Maybe it's a regional or a club thing but it's REAL common in the local swing club and it's quite common with web site profiles. Our profiles have basic interests listed in the profile IN addition to what you may write in your "open essay" of the profile. Many of the profiles show girl/girl only and soft swap while a few show full swap or full swap seperate room. Unless it's a do as I say not as I do situation I don't think it's that.

Nerves...I really think you all may be onto something there. We are meeting with somewhat new people to the lifestyle in the area. Honestly it seems the expirienced ones are not really interested in meeting new people, they have their click and gang and seem to stay together. Now is it 100% click, no I am sure people are allowed into the "sacred circle" on occasion but we are not Ken and Barbie, I am sure "athletic/fit/god type" have full access to those clicks at any time but regular "HWP" couples who are normal average people need some sort of "in". So our best results so far to even receive a reply on the web site or someone to say hello back at the club is usually the somewhat new people...shoot starting to sound a lot like High School all over again ;-) Maybe it's because of this that we are having trouble, we may be new and serious, while others are new and nervious or have cold feet ?

How long before we "put out" if you want to be funny about it ? I don't know we have talked about it and it would vary. We could meet the perfect couple or unicorn and find ourselves in a pretzel that same evening! We could meet some people and feel a 2nd date after a "personal talk" between husband/wife would be appropriate would be the right time. Some people may just be "friend" material since there is no sex chemestry but if they are friends someday down the road our feelings may change. We are looking for people, not sex toys. We have found that friendships can lead to more even if that thought was not there to start.... It's not black and white really...

I don't think we have a lot of rules and are probably quite common, you tell us but from the local swingers it seems common. Safe Sex is a MUST, my wife is not interested in male penetration and I'll be with the other woman only if they both agree. No rules, just guidelines and those are meant to be bent and revised as we go on, we are new and open minded.

Are we placing too much thought into this ? Maybe so...but it seems like a lot of people agree, it can be rough and it just seems for such and open lifestyle a lot of people seem very inconsiderate. We like to people watch and we have seen more than one occasion even in a FTF meeting at the club people offer a simple hello and get no reply back, not a wave or even a nodd of the head. That is actually kind of what brought on this conversation between the wife and I after our last club outing and I was just wondering if people have seen similar issues or it's just us thinking too much.

[EagerCouple]

Oh and for Julie...the most we have seen anyone is 3 times. Once a chance encounter at a club, we will call that the initial meet and greet it was short sweet and not really personal other than Hi nice to meet you some chit chat for like 15 minutes. We ran into them at the club one other time and spoke quite a bit on that encounter, after that evening we contacted them and made a dinner date which went well. So everyone else has been e-mails getting to know people then trying to schedule between their sitters and our sitters (hey a lot of people do have children!) then setting a date. Some reach the date and time then back out and others just stop at the request for a date.

Oh and our first day at the club we did meet a unicorn and we did get along. It's just been a matter of her and us finding a night to meet at the club when we all will be there at the same time since she nor us go to the club each and every Friday and Saturday night. Maybe we will be more lucky than others in the long run once we do hook up. Neither of us can host...my next suggestion is just a hotel room if fri/sat is not working out for either party.

[Adam-n-Eve]

Even though we've only been active in the lifestyle for about a year, we've had good luck. We seem to average about one new couple a month; and we've usually met our playmates through the websites like Swing Lifestyle or Adult Friend Finder.

Based on my experiences, I would venture to say that it might be the people you're meeting, but it might be you as well. I don't know what your profile says, but I know there are people we shy away from based entirely on what their profile says, or how they act once we meet them.

Since we're full-swap, we have very little interest in couples that aren't; even when we think they're extremely attractive. We've talked with a couple of soft-swap couples, but when it comes down to it, we've gone through with it just once. There's just something missing from the experience if I can't have sex with the women -- something I learned after the one and only time.

I'm thinking that the more experienced people are shying away because you're just not offering what they're looking for (nothing wrong with that, on your part) and the new couples who tend to be good with soft-swap are more skittish?

We try to reply to everyone who writes us, but there are some we don't bother with. Our profile states that we want to see pictures before we invest a lot of time. When a couple sends us a one (lame) line message and two blurry photos that don't really show anything, we tend to toss it.

So, my advice would be to look at who you're contacting to see if you're going after a skittish group, and to look at yourselves to see if you're doing something to put up red flags. For example: If the other woman showed very little interest in me when we meet in person, we wouldn't go through with it, assuming the couple is just after my wife. Any comment that says I "may or may not" get to participate once we start to play is an instant killer. Too many rules (I know you said you don't have many, I'm just listing red flags) ends the pursuit. Drunken behavior when meeting is a bad sign. Drug use may be an issue if it appears you have to get high to enjoy swinging. Overly political talk turns us off; we're not there to bash Bush, we're their to play with it (previous statement not be be taken as in indication of our political sway). Racism bothers us (we've seen a surprising amount of that). Too many meetings or conversations will usually end with us losing interest.

Though honestly, we haven't met with too many couples we haven't ended up having sex with. Maybe three. The first one was when we decided to meet a couple without having seen a face picture of the man. We won't do that anymore. Another ended up being flakes who strung us out for a couple of weeks. We won't pursue another couple for more than a couple of meeting requests anymore; it's up to them to get back to us once we've made an offer they've refused. The third couple decided to go exclusive with another couple.

Most of the bad behavior we've seen were couples at the clubs or at meet-and-greets -- people we never actually tried to meet.

[EagerCouple]

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

Even though we've only been active in the lifestyle for about a year, we've had good luck. We seem to average about one new couple a month; and we've usually met our playmates through the websites like Swing Lifestyle or Adult Friend Finder.

Based on my experiences, I would venture to say that it might be the people you're meeting, but it might be you as well. I don't know what your profile says, but I know there are people we shy away from based entirely on what their profile says, or how they act once we meet them.

Since we're full-swap, we have very little interest in couples that aren't; even when we think they're extremely attractive. We've talked with a couple of soft-swap couples, but when it comes down to it, we've gone through with it just once. There's just something missing from the experience if I can't have sex with the women -- something I learned after the one and only time.

I'm thinking that the more experienced people are shying away because you're just not offering what they're looking for (nothing wrong with that, on your part) and the new couples who tend to be good with soft-swap are more skittish?

We try to reply to everyone who writes us, but there are some we don't bother with. Our profile states that we want to see pictures before we invest a lot of time. When a couple sends us a one (lame) line message and two blurry photos that don't really show anything, we tend to toss it.

So, my advice would be to look at who you're contacting to see if you're going after a skittish group, and to look at yourselves to see if you're doing something to put up red flags. For example: If the other woman showed very little interest in me when we meet in person, we wouldn't go through with it, assuming the couple is just after my wife. Any comment that says I "may or may not" get to participate once we start to play is an instant killer. Too many rules (I know you said you don't have many, I'm just listing red flags) ends the pursuit. Drunken behavior when meeting is a bad sign. Drug use may be an issue if it appears you have to get high to enjoy swinging. Overly political talk turns us off; we're not there to bash Bush, we're their to play with it (previous statement not be be taken as in indication of our political sway). Racism bothers us (we've seen a surprising amount of that). Too many meetings or conversations will usually end with us losing interest.

Though honestly, we haven't met with too many couples we haven't ended up having sex with. Maybe three. The first one was when we decided to meet a couple without having seen a face picture of the man. We won't do that anymore. Another ended up being flakes who strung us out for a couple of weeks. We won't pursue another couple for more than a couple of meeting requests anymore; it's up to them to get back to us once we've made an offer they've refused. The third couple decided to go exclusive with another couple.

Most of the bad behavior we've seen were couples at the clubs or at meet-and-greets -- people we never actually tried to meet.

Some really good points there, thank you so much and we will consider many of them. Photos are not an issue, I have done it in the past for pay so you won't be seeing the itty bitty camera phone pics on-line you need a magnifying glass for and are all blurry when you do see them. Ha we know what you mean. We have several and they are recent between the last 2 months to the last week.

I have only once brought up anything remotely related to politics and that was only after knowing the people AND with people we had decided as friends but nothing more. We agree..no place for relegion or politics here...

In the past few weeks my attitude has changed and so has my wife's. We try making contact and say hello with something personal but not too much. Our profile has the rest of the information if they are interested and people have access to 6 or so photos without a face. If they seem interested in the profile and the initial photos we will give them access to our private photos that have both face pics and some more sexy photos but nothing hardcore. My wife feels that it's not necessary, if they want to see that well it will be in person first! I got to agree, nothing requires a wide open "coochie" shot to decide if you want a date or not.

We will offer to meet up two times, nothing comes from that then we move on, if they contact us after we move on we will call it as we see it to meet or not. Others that offer to meet up we will give them 2 chances, if you bail out after the 2nd chance (breaking dates) then we move on. Honestly if it's going to be that difficult then honestly you must not be that interested and why force something if you are not that into it? I also see it as rude and thoughtless and I don't care how attractive you are we don't deal with thoughtless people. Hell it's only a date and its for fun..my wife and I can't have fun with someone who does not care for others. We no longer chase people by e-mail, phone or text...even if we would meet I think it would be with a sour taste in our mouth and doomed from the start so we don't try.

Could it be the wanting of full swap ? SURE! But then again we don't contact anyone who says FULL SWAP only. We respect interests and only contact people who say soft swap, thresome's and less. Why waste someone's time if they want more than you can offer??Same is likewise...But we have had people contact us that wanted more even though it clearly states no full swap.

I can't say we have seen any bad behavior at clubs, clicks sure but nothing bad. Some people keep to themselves and their little group and won't give anyone else the time of day, maybe a smile back but nothing else and hey...may not be fun and they may be missing out but not bad behavior. Only behavior that I see is on the internet where people ask for one thing, you offer it and they don't have enough respect to at least say "thanks but no thanks". If you are going to waste someone's time by asking for something in a profile and having someone offer that meets criteria at least respond back. Sure not everyone is going to be attracted to everyone else no one expects 100% hook up factor but at least the courtesy of thanks but not interested is I think usually appreciated. If people are going to take the responsibility of the lifestyle I think people should be ready to man or woman up enough to be honest and no thanks. Be nice about it but at least have the guts to say no.

Wife has said she want's friends and then see what it leads to. I am tending to think that ain't going to happen....it's going to be meet up-hook up-see what it leads to! Kind of backwards from what she was looking for so we should be having a good discussion about it tonight possibly. We also will start re-thinking of wanting to meet others that are new to explore. Adam/Eve good point...newbees are probably the most risky even if you are a newbee. You may be serious, sure and all for it but just because you are a serious newbee that does not mean that the majority of others are too.