Newbees: Eager to start but getting tired of fakes and letdowns!

[EagerCouple]

Originally Posted by ALilOEverything

My question is how assertive is your wife, and how assertive is the wife of the other couples? I find my most successful experiences is where the other female is as assertive as myself. It seems like this would be even more imperative if g/g is more of the main focus. How much of a participant in the conversations is your wife? If she finds them attractive does she start flirting at all? Is the other female flirting? When your done with your initial meeting how do the goodbyes play out? Do you just shake hands? Give each other hugs? I really like it when the other couple give hugs, it tells me a lot. Hugs tell me they aren't afraid of physical contact. If they seem uncomfortable with a hug then how on earth are they going to be comfortable naked and giving pleasure. Pay close attention to body language, not just their's, but also yours. Don't forget to flirt with each other too, they want to know you're into each other. Make sure you always seem open and inviting.

I think conversation topics are important too. It's good to find common ground but once that's established talk about sex, that's why you're there! The more comfortable everyone is about talking about it the more of a chance everyone will be more comfortable with doing it. I always ask how they got into the lifestyle, what started it all. Talk about what excites you about it.

The most important thing is BE POSITIVE!!! Positive people are more sexy than negative ones anyday. You'll find your niche, you just need to keep your chin up!

Good Luck!

LiLo I can see you practice what you preach just from your e-mail. We have noticed many things you have mentioned and you have hit it on the head quite well. Yes Wifee does participate quite a bit after the initial contact that I usually make and our e-mail address goes to both of our PDA's so we often take turns responding to messages. Initially she is VERY shy but after a meet or two she opens up, complements are not a problem for her, she knows howto dish it out. Some will call that flirting but none of the physical flirting (hair/rubbing/grope) even though we are more huggs and quick kiss goodbye type of people, even if we don't know them that well. We have shocked on some occasions "vanilla" friends on some occasions since that's the way we just normally are.

Positive we are..the only weakness I can tell is the sexual conversation topics. They do come up from time to time but not always or just the only thing. I am working with her to come out of her shell a bit more on that SOONER, it's an issue between working with her and pushing her which I am not going to do so I walk the line carefully. It's not an issue but it is if others are expecting to get a response to "Hi my name is Nick do you spit or swallow". If that's what it really takes to "score" maybe we are barking up the wrong tree. I am one of the most open people in the world, if a woman asks me ANY question I'll answer without blinking an eye but it's not about me...it's about her. She want's to explore and have different kinds of fun but if it's going to become that much of an effort you lose the fun aspect and I know personally I'd rather not explore if it's not fun.

Now that I think about it and see it in writing it's not so much the sex part that needs some work but the shyness part. The swinging part of the formula is a non issue, it's more of a trust in people thing I guess and that comes with practice and time.

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by EagerCouple

the only weakness I can tell is the sexual conversation topics. They do come up from time to time but not always or just the only thing. I am working with her to come out of her shell a bit more on that SOONER, it's an issue between working with her and pushing her which I am not going to do so I walk the line carefully. It's not an issue but it is if others are expecting to get a response to "Hi my name is Nick do you spit or swallow". If that's what it really takes to "score" maybe we are barking up the wrong tree.

I found your spit or swallow comment an interesting place to take the idea of sexual topics. Hopefully it was just hyperbole. When we engage in sex talk, we go for fun and flirty, not down and dirty.

We went out on a first date with a couple last weekend and I was thinking about you while we all talked. We had dinner, which is not something we've really ever done before. However, there was one thing that was fairly consistent: I think we all were of the mind that we were pretty much going to hookup that night -- and only if someone was really off-putting or very different than how they had represented themselves would it not happen.

The other guy, who is somewhat new to this, even mentioned the same thing; that there was a seeming (mutual) expectation. I guess my point is that while we never expect another couple is going to want to play the same night we first meet them, they generally do. In the rare case that we couldn't, it's been clear that they wanted to. Interestingly, only in one case where we didn't play that night did we actually hookup with that couple later.

Again, I can only go by my own experience, but have you gotten that vibe? Like perhaps they wanted to play that night? It's weird how often we've run into couples that seem really interested in the moment but seem to have no interest later if it doesn't happen right then. Thinking about this, I would say there have been four or five couples that have been really insistent that we get together that night (with that night being our very first contact) and who seem to lose all interest when we tell them we have plans.

I'm not suggesting that you hookup with a couple before you're ready, but I'm just thinking that there might be a number of people that are very much fixated on the moment.

Related to that: Is there a feeling of expectation on these dates? I don't mean an expectation that you will hookup that night, but an expectation that, barring something unexpected, you will be hooking up eventually. If not, maybe they're coming in with those feelings and when they don't sense it in you, they're thinking you're not all that interested.

Maybe give us a little blog action. As you're courting your next couple, tell us about it. Let us know what you're talking about and how things progress. When you go out to meet them, tell us about that too. Give us an idea of how interested you think they are and how you leave things at the end of the date. Keep us clued in until you either give up on them or hook up. Perhaps we can offer a more helpful prospective than we are now.

Just a thought.

[EagerCouple]

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

I found your spit or swallow comment an interesting place to take the idea of sexual topics. Hopefully it was just hyperbole. When we engage in sex talk, we go for fun and flirty, not down and dirty.

We went out on a first date with a couple last weekend and I was thinking about you while we all talked. We had dinner, which is not something we've really ever done before. However, there was one thing that was fairly consistent: I think we all were of the mind that we were pretty much going to hookup that night -- and only if someone was really off-putting or very different than how they had represented themselves would it not happen.

The other guy, who is somewhat new to this, even mentioned the same thing; that there was a seeming (mutual) expectation. I guess my point is that while we never expect another couple is going to want to play the same night we first meet them, they generally do. In the rare case that we couldn't, it's been clear that they wanted to. Interestingly, only in one case where we didn't play that night did we actually hookup with that couple later.

Again, I can only go by my own experience, but have you gotten that vibe? Like perhaps they wanted to play that night? It's weird how often we've run into couples that seem really interested in the moment but seem to have no interest later if it doesn't happen right then. Thinking about this, I would say there have been four or five couples that have been really insistent that we get together that night (with that night being our very first contact) and who seem to lose all interest when we tell them we have plans.

I'm not suggesting that you hookup with a couple before you're ready, but I'm just thinking that there might be a number of people that are very much fixated on the moment.

Related to that: Is there a feeling of expectation on these dates? I don't mean an expectation that you will hookup that night, but an expectation that, barring something unexpected, you will be hooking up eventually. If not, maybe they're coming in with those feelings and when they don't sense it in you, they're thinking you're not all that interested.

Maybe give us a little blog action. As you're courting your next couple, tell us about it. Let us know what you're talking about and how things progress. When you go out to meet them, tell us about that too. Give us an idea of how interested you think they are and how you leave things at the end of the date. Keep us clued in until you either give up on them or hook up. Perhaps we can offer a more helpful prospective than we are now.

Just a thought.

That sounds like a great idea and I really appreciate the offer, it's very nice of you to take such and interest. The next time we "go through the motions" I will bring in a play by play update.

The spit or swallow comment was fully "just for impact" I would never talk like that unless told that it's what she/they like. Heck I may joke about it with the wife from time to time but never even in dirty talk. Personally my "weapon of choice" is double talk, it seems to work well when in one on one dealings. I find the demeaning talk a turn off, we even have one "couple" (I sometimes wonder) that talk about taping bitches and such. Would love to see their/his success rate! What I can say the way you took the spit or swallow is the way we took "Hi my name is...my wife really likes the looks of yours will your wife do me just as hard too?" I am very far from a prude..I'll talk to anyone very point blank about sex even if we just met but for an opening line after seeing in the profile we are not full swap and she has no interest in penetration sex from another man I found it to be a bit more forward than acceptable. I had just seen that e-mail and it kind of made me laugh and feel like "what a fool". We may have even "done them" but with an attitude like that she replied "Thanks but no thanks".

As far as intent..no never any pre-meditated intent with any of the meets. These were just let's have dinner or drinks so we can meet in person and get to know each other. No phone/text/internet sex prior to the dates just hey here are some pics of us send us yours, nothing real graphic either, sexy tease lingere shots and some boobage. We try to get off the internet/phone thing as quickly as possible now. Hate the connotation of "wasting our time" but it's true...we have seen so many people that have taken our time and taken us nowhere..not even a meet and greet that we would rather just pass and stay at home or go somewhere alone. Too much effort to plan something or get our hopes up high just for a let down from endless leading or fake photos. Way we look at it pictures lie..I know I am a photographer and can make most anyone look good. No hopes or expectations till' we meet, if we meet and we like it and like the conversation then we will plan.

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by EagerCouple

That sounds like a great idea and I really appreciate the offer, it's very nice of you to take such and interest. The next time we "go through the motions" I will bring in a play by play update.

Hey, we just want to see you get laid.

[Menage_a_Trois]

We have been in the lifestyle for over 12 years. We are a full swap couple and play somewhat regularly(when time permits). All couples go through ups and downs in meeting and playing with others. We have read through this entire thread and to be perfectly honest the "problem" you are running into is really quite obvious, you are not ready to play when you meet people. You are wanting to get to know them have something click, then go home talk about it, then meet again, make sure you have really gotten to know the person/couple, then perhaps get together and play. No wonder you are not having much luck. Several people have tried politely to tell you that you are dragging things out too much, but no one is being blunt. So here it is..... MOST people that are REALLY interested in playing,(no matter what kind of play fullswap, soft swap, girl/girl, or whatever) are interested in doing JUST that PLAY. MOST couples know within 30 mins to an hour of chatting(face to face) if they are interested in playing. And that is being generous. There is nothing more you are going to learn to make "playing" more fun or special. You are also not going to learn anymore about them that will make you want or not want to play with them. So many couples when they are new to swinging have to justify what they are wanting to do by making it more than it is. They think the people have to be special to them or friends or there has to be a "real" connection". The truth be told if you ever do get to play and if you play very often you will find out one reality. Most people you play with will only be a one time thing. For whatever reason. Some will be repeats, some will become friends, but most will not. Some of the best play experiences we have had are the times when you are driving home after wards and one of you looks at the other and says " what were their names again". It didn't start out that way and it wasn't planned. But we chatted found there was an interest then went and played. I know you said you were "open" to playing on the first meet, but then you act like it is not really a possibility because it just not your real interest. It is very easy to over think all of this. The reality is until you actually play, you will never know nor understand if this is really for you and if you want to continue. No amount of reading, talking, thinking or anything else can tell you that, only an actual experience or two or three or well you get the idea. Now I am NOT saying to do anything you are not ready for, nor am I saying you should not be selective. I am also not telling you to change what you are doing, if it is right for you, then that is what you have to do. But you are getting frustrated and want to know why. You just have to accept that you are definitely in the minority in several aspects of what you are trying to do. Therefore it is going to take MUCH longer and it is going to be very frustrating if you let it.

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by Menage_a_Trois

the "problem" you are running into is really quite obvious, you are not ready to play when you meet people.

Yeah, I have to agree. That's pretty much what I was trying to say as well. Like I said, just about every time we did not play with someone the same day we met them for the first time, it was obvious that they were disapointed. We almost always play the same day, and now we are always ready to do so even when we meet someone on a weekday night ( the times we didn't play it was a weekday and we were too new to realize that if they were meeting us on a weekday it was because the wanted to play on a weekday). If we didn't play the same day, most of the time it meant we never ended up playing.

We always assume a date is a play date and play it based on the other couple's reaction (assuming we're still interested after meeting, of course).

Go to your next date with the intention of playing, and I'll bet you have a 90% chance of scoring.

Hopefully it goes without saying at this point: no one wants you to do anything you're not ready for. We're just telling you how we think the swinging world works

[EagerCouple]

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

Hey, we just want to see you get laid.

LOL!! Well thanks for the well wishes!

What do they say "Denial is not just a river in Egypt" ?? Like I have said before, I think you are all right to varying degrees. We will see it's all marketing, just like in sales but here you are selling yourself in some ways. We have expiremented with our profile and have seen interest both increase and decrease. Just like the profile some things may need tweaking so we will keep an open mind to everything in the future and see how things work out.

Also no this is not our first time but it's the first time we have tried in years and prior expirience HAD been with friends first FWB later and I guess that is what she was looking for since it worked so well the last time. I am cool with everything (except guy guy stuff!) and very honest and open minded. The wife and I just have to talk a little bit more and either agree or disagree, she has read this thread and also appreciates all the input. It's all up to her now...I think it's time to decide be a bit more forward and just let it all out without shyness or re-think the whole thing and back out fully.

We have met a few people that are not fakes, some interested us and some did not. Problem is I agree, if we keep meeting people and not acting quickly I think we will be drying up the "pool" of couples available to us.