First time MFM - due diligence questions

[tormontreal]

We are almost a year into a committed relationship with plans to get married. We live in different cities and visit each other almost every weekend. She's 28 and I'm 27. We've got an incredible sexlife that just seems to be getting deeper, more meaningful, and hotter with time. A few months ago, we decided to do something spontaneous and visited a swingers club where she ended up getting a body shot licked off her topless on the bar by the coatcheck girl. We both were super turned on by this encounter and started talking about the idea of playing... End of february we ended spending the night at a couple's place after a dinner party where all four of us played in bed together. We had agreed that we would not full swap, saving that kind of intimacy just for us to share with each other.

Well... last weekend we got talking about bringing a man she finds attractive over to her place this weekend for a night of fun as a birthday gift for her. She is incredibly turned by the thought of having me and another man take her on together... and I'm loving the idea too... Somehow we got onto how hot it would be if she had us both... all the way... all night long. This is a revision to our "no swapping" thing from before. Now we want to do it. We've talked about the consequences and how we feel about it a lot, role played it in bed, and are excited about it. Now we want to decide on moving ahead with it. I'm wondering if there's something an experienced swinger couple might have us consider about this before we move ahead, bearing in mind the following:

-this is about us, and the whole purpose of it is for it to turn us on

-this isn't an attempt to spice up a lame sexlife... we just have heard and think if done right that it can be incredibly hot

-the "invitee" works in her company but in a different department... they do occasionally see each other at work lunches and events with other people but not often

-i've met him at one of her work functions before and he knows how committed we are... i also happen to think he's a genuinely nice guy and will be respectful in bed with us... mostly with her seeing as I'm not looking for a bi-sexual experience

-we've agreed that this is our space now, so any conversations she has with him after are to be shared with me

-we've discussed rules and how to handle things if he should he develop feelings for her after

-we've decided that she'll talk to him this week at lunch and lay the whole thing out for him to decide on...rules and all... since she's caught him checking her out a few times already, we don't see him turning the opportunity down.

-she is away from work for a week after this night of fun allowing for a cool off period

-we've talked about the possibility of me becoming jealous... and I'm feeling good about this not being a big cause for concern. I think seeing her in action with him might actually quell all the thoughts i have about her previous sex life with other men - these thoughts have actually started turining me on recently... i don't know why really... they used to make me jealous with my previous girlfriends...I think i'm getting to the source of where my jealousy was really stemming from.

-we've talked about the possibility of her feeling dirty afterwards... she doesn't see this as a concern... her primary concern is that I'm ok with him being inside of her

-we've talked about ways of making the encounter safe

The biggest thing we've narrowed it down to is how she and him will have to handle themselves after this night given they work in proximity and also given that she and I won't be living in the same city until she moves to be with me in 4 months.

Do you think we've done our due diligence? Are we silly to be doing this given that we're only late twenties and not even married yet? Are we missing details? Should we maybe just pillowtalk for a few more months and see what we think then? We're confident that we are adult about all our decisions regarding this.. marriage included... we would like to know if you're seeing something here that we might've missed.

...your advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanx
N&S

[good times]

Personally, I think this is a bad idea for a number of reasons.

The most important are, we never play with anyone from work. Can she afford to lose her job? Because you have to consider the fact that it is very likely that everyone at work will find out about it, whether the guy accepts the proposal or not.

From what you said it sounds like this guy is not a swinger. Most non-swingers don't understand swinging at all. My guess is that two things would happen if she were to approach him for sex. He would probably initially freak out about the idea, and within a short time, everyone he knows at work will find out about it. A non-swinger has no compulsion to be discreet, unlike someone who is a swinger and knows the rules.

Finally, I would highly recommend that you initially experiment with swinging together and with other people who are already swingers. They are not hard to find, and a lot of potential problems are mitigated by the fact that they are already swingers. Furthermore, swingers will be sensitive to your concerns and be ready to stop if you or her should have any issues during your first full swap experience.

[Speed & Trixie]

Goodtimes has some good advice there!

I think the two of you are ready to try swinging, but I agree with Goodtimes that it's probably not a good idea to have a MFM with a co-worker (ever!). There is just too much potential for things to go really wrong -- then she'd have to see this dude at work!

I definately think you two are moving in the right direction as a couple. It seems like you have open, honest communication, and that's essential for a good relationship (swinging or not). If you poke around these message boards, you'll find lots of good advice on choosing the right single male for your first MFM. He should be willing to sit down with you both, and talk openly about expectations/ rules, and how to keep everyone comfortable. Communication is just as important in swing partners as it is in your primary relationship.

Good luck to both of you, and we hope to hear more from you and your lady!

Trixie

[two4youinswva]

I must commend you on the thought and communication it appears you two have put into this. You have explored the potential issues, and have addressed them. You're not too young based on age, and your ability to express your thoughts indicate you are mentally mature enough to handle this as well.

Now, the bad part: I have to agree 100% with GT. Swinging with a co-worker might work, but why take the chance when there's quality folks already in the lifestyle? As GT mentioned, playing with people already into swinging, and knowledgeable about swinging takes so many variables off the table.

Good luck to both of you, welcome to the board, and stick around here! We like new board members.

[Trace Ekies]

Your thoughts are well put. That kind of effort will make swinging a lot of fun for both of you.

I have to agree with the previous three posters...don't make the co-worker mistake. It sounds fun and easy but is actually a web of un-intended consequences.

DO find swingers who have some experience and will help you live out your fantasies and then help them live out some of theirs. If you communicate with swingers the way you've communicated with each other and us you're in for a sexy, grin-a-minute ride.

Trace

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by tormontreal

We live in different cities and visit each other almost every weekend.

Ooof! Toronto-Montreal? Been there, done that drive. It's quite a hike.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-this is about us, and the whole purpose of it is for it to turn us on

(thumbsup)

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-this isn't an attempt to spice up a lame sexlife... we just have heard and think if done right that it can be incredibly hot

(thumbsup)

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-the "invitee" works in her company but in a different department... they do occasionally see each other at work lunches and events with other people but not often

(agree with what everyone else said)

This is a common thought path among newer swing couples. The co-worker seems attractive; you know them to some degree, already decided if you are attracted to them, etc.

It's a seriously BAD idea. Don't do it. Period. Most especially with an MFM scenario. There are PLENTY of single swinging men. You don't need the co-worker. All sorts of bad things can happen. It's just NOT worth it.

Plus, non-swinging males jumping into an MFM can have serious performance issues. It's not at all uncommon, even for young, perfectly healthy men, to suddenly not be able to get it up in such a situation. I'm a swinger, but the very first time we swung I had performance issues. Lots of men do. I don't anymore, but I did.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-i've met him at one of her work functions before and he knows how committed we are... i also happen to think he's a genuinely nice guy and will be respectful in bed with us... mostly with her seeing as I'm not looking for a bi-sexual experience

(thumbsup)

(minus the co-worker bit)

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-we've agreed that this is our space now, so any conversations she has with him after are to be shared with me

(thumbsup)

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-we've discussed rules and how to handle things if he should he develop feelings for her after

(thumbsup)

Communication is VERY important. My wife and I have discussed emotional aspects as well. For us, the rule is if a swing partner starts having an emotional attachment to us or we to them, it's quit with them cold turkey time. If you have a regular swing partner, it's pretty had not to develop some emotions with respect to that person. But we do that with friends. If the emotions go beyond platonic, turning to romantic, then it's kaput. We play for our relationship, not to build another one.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-we've decided that she'll talk to him this week at lunch and lay the whole thing out for him to decide on...rules and all... since she's caught him checking her out a few times already, we don't see him turning the opportunity down.

Wrong. With no criticism, this is inexperience talking. Men can react in unexpected ways. The guy might think you're no good in bed, and try to take her for himself. He might be freaked out by the idea of having sex with someone while another guy is watching. Some guys just do NOT want another guy seeing their penis erect, or vice versa. The guy might think your girlfriend is a complete slut and suddenly be turned off by her. The guy might think "Oh this is just TOO juicy not to share with my workmates!" and go blab it to everyone.

Reality; you're not him. Regardless of how well you know him, there's no way you can know how he will react. There is a HUGE gap of difference between flirtatious attraction and having a threesome. There's plenty of women at my workplace I'd really enjoy fucking. I have good relations with a number of them, and slightly flirtatious moments with a few. But, my own mindset on swinging took time to develop. Trying to take a co-worker who is mildly flirtatious to full on swinging is like trying to take a bus from zero to 300km/hr in 3 seconds. You can easily snap their heads off. Bad, bad juju man. Don't do it.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-she is away from work for a week after this night of fun allowing for a cool off period

Some detachment can be good. Thing is, a swinging experience can set you on fire. That fire should be directed at your mate, not at the swing partner the very next day necessarily

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-we've talked about the possibility of me becoming jealous... and I'm feeling good about this not being a big cause for concern. I think seeing her in action with him might actually quell all the thoughts i have about her previous sex life with other men - these thoughts have actually started turning me on recently... i don't know why really... they used to make me jealous with my previous girlfriends...I think i'm getting to the source of where my jealousy was really stemming from.

The fabled green eyed monster. Forget about her sex past. Either you accept her, or you don't. You can't change her past. Doing anything to judge her or hold her in less regard for her past is wrong.

Seeing another man fuck your girlfriend (in my case wife) is highly erotic. It's most especially erotic when she's REALLY enjoying it. Little boys don't grow up being told how erotic it is to see their wives get fucked by another man. So, there's no lock-step answers to this. But, a very large number of swinging men really enjoy watching their wives get a good fucking from another man. It doesn't necessarily need an answer as to why. It simply is. If you enjoy it, wonderful! I know I do!!!!

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-we've talked about the possibility of her feeling dirty afterwards... she doesn't see this as a concern... her primary concern is that I'm ok with him being inside of her

My wife had concerns about being thought of as a lady by me and by herself post-facto. Concerns gone. She now says in MFMs "I feel like a queen!" Society teaches young ladies that keeping your legs together is proper and moral. Hard programming to overcome. It's really really really ok to enjoy sex. There's nothing wrong with it. It's also ok to enjoy getting sex from lots of men at once. So long as it's not illegal, everyone is having fun and there's no victim, what the heck is wrong with it?

Originally Posted by tormontreal

-we've talked about ways of making the encounter safe

Excellent.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

The biggest thing we've narrowed it down to is how she and him will have to handle themselves after this night given they work in proximity and also given that she and I won't be living in the same city until she moves to be with me in 4 months.

Again, the co-worker bit. If this were a swing male, this would be a complete non-issue.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

Do you think we've done our due diligence? Are we silly to be doing this given that we're only late twenties and not even married yet? Are we missing details? Should we maybe just pillowtalk for a few more months and see what we think then? We're confident that we are adult about all our decisions regarding this.. marriage included... we would like to know if you're seeing something here that we might've missed.

I don't think you have to be married to swing. Only you can evaluate the stability if your relationship. But, swinging requires a stable relationship.

A very good thing to consider is this; Swinging is a magnifying glass on a relationship. Swinging by itself is neither good nor bad. It just is. What it does do is provide a magnifying glass. If your relationships has problems, the problems will be magnified ten fold, and you will have serious problems to contend with. If your relationship is very healthy, with absolute trust and perfectly open lines of communication on everything, then it most likely will enhance your relationship in many ways, not just sexually.

No, you're not too young to swing. The 'average' swinger is a bit older than you two, but that's of no concern. What matters is how good your relationship is (and be ABSOLUTELY honest with each other about that).

[CXXC]

I will simply mirror the sage advice that has been given before me. Under no circumstance should you EVER bring a co-worker into your bed. The chances of word getting out about your sexual freedom are stacked against you! Consider, if you will, the chances of this individual letting the cat out of the bag. Is it worth it to the two of you for just one night of pleasure?

Stick to other members of the lifestyle. They are all over the place and most eager to please. The number of single men, with no ties to either of you is staggering! Don’t go looking for trouble int he work place. As my father once told me, "Keep your pen out of the company ink well!"

Beyond your choice of playmate, I think the two of you are on a great road of communication, openness and discussion. Keep this up! Share your feelings and thoughts constantly.

However, I must warn, you will never know how you will react to a situation until you are actually in that situation. Seeing another man pleasure your mate is surreal, at best. Will you feel jealousy? Will you feel excited? Will she really enjoy the activity as you are present? The fact of the matter is, you may feel everything or nothing. You will not know until you are engaged in the activity!

Mrs. CXXC and I wish you the best of experiences!

[tormontreal]

All of you... Thanx so much for the responses. We are truly taken aback at the time and concern that you have given us.

We are very happy to hear that we're on the right track and had a long conversation last night about moving forward with this. We've decided that the risk of disaster in the work place should things not go as planned far outweighs the excitement and enjoyment that may come from this encounter. So we will not be proceding with the co-worker at this time. Thank you for really hitting this home in your replies (6/6).

Seeing as my Miss is more inclined to an organic development of such an evening as opposed to me scouring posting boards it could be some time before such an occassion presents itself again.

Is anybody in a similar situation... where one of you is more inclined to take steps to make things happen and the other is more content to let things happen "naturally" if the situation is right? I'm very much a goal oriented person and am all about taking steps toward something i want. So sometimes my Miss feels like I might be a little too focussed on setting up sex-adventures...

Any ideas here again are very much appreciated and absorbed!

N&S

[The Fuse]

So happy to hear you've reconsidered opening that subject with a co-worker.

I thought all the replies were great. Would have given bbarnesworth another good rep, but I need to spread around the reputation before I can come back to him.

I know your Miss wants an organic experience... but would she be open to just browsing a few single male profiles on a swing site like Swing Lifestyle or AFF? Not with the stated intent of finding someone to swing with, but just as a way of knowing what kind of people might be available, if she were at a later date to decide she might be interested in proceeding that way. Or... you could go to a swing club without any intention of playing with anyone else, but just talk to a few people. You might both be surprised at the quality of people you could meet. Just a few thoughts... you'd have to be careful not to seem like you are pushing. I might get slapped for even suggesting it. Personally, I like just peeking at things that are outside my comfort zone, to see if that zone could expand.

[CXXC]

You cannot force (perhaps too strong a term) anyone to do something they are not truly inclined to do or comfortable with. Even though the idea may excite you both at the time of discussion, the application of the act is far reaching. If she is not in the mind to actively pursue what you have discussed in the heat of passion, you will only walk away frustrated with each attempt.

Now, having said that, may I suggest that both of you agree on a visit to a local lifestyle club. Ensure her (AND STICK TO IT!!!) that your only intention is to see what happens, talk to others and discover TOGETHER, the ways other people are experiencing the very same desires and wants.

If she is not agreeable to this, you must wait until such a time as an individual approaches or is approached that fits BOTH of your desires.

I may also like to suggest avoiding friends as alternate possibilities for the very same reasons we suggest you not make the connection with co-workers. The job issue may not come into play, but your private lives may become mired if they decided to speak to others regarding your activities. Remember, the only way a secret is kept is if only one person knows. Tell one other person and the chances are, the world will know by day break!

Her desire to take things as they come is certainly a painfully slow process for you. Setting your goals and desires TOGETHER is far more important than trying to coax her into moving faster or in a direction she is not comfortable with. You will discover that, as the idea takes hold in her mind, she may, in time, be ready to actively seek others for your fantasy. No matter how long it takes, remember the number one rule. This is something that BOTH of you must agree upon 100%. Your timetable means nothing.

My last suggestion to you is to sit back, communicate, openly discuss, fantasize together, and enjoy the build-up of what will eventually amount to become the realization of a fantasy fulfilled. Make no expectations. Set no dates. Do not pressure anyone. Just keep the flames between you burning brightly and hotter as the event approaches. If anything, you will have great sex with each other just thinking and openly discussing the potential!

[CXXC]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

So happy to hear you've reconsidered opening that subject with a co-worker.

I thought all the replies were great. Would have given bbarnesworth another good rep, but I need to spread around the reputation before I can come back to him.

I know your Miss wants an organic experience... but would she be open to just browsing a few single male profiles on a swing site like Swing Lifestyle or AFF? Not with the stated intent of finding someone to swing with, but just as a way of knowing what kind of people might be available, if she were at a later date to decide she might be interested in proceeding that way. Or... you could go to a swing club without any intention of playing with anyone else, but just talk to a few people. You might both be surprised at the quality of people you could meet. Just a few thoughts... you'd have to be careful not to seem like you are pushing. I might get slapped for even suggesting it. Personally, I like just peeking at things that are outside my comfort zone, to see if that zone could expand.

Ms. Fuse
I wish I had seen your post before I spewed forth my diatribe! Well put and always appreciated!

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by tormontreal

All of you... Thanx so much for the responses. We are truly taken aback at the time and concern that you have given us.

This forum is a tremendous resource. My wife and I gained sooo much from this forum when we were first starting out in swinging. It made it all so much easier. The group of people here tend to be great, and better than most other online resources I've been involved in (on other topics). I'll also add that the level of involvement by women on this forum is, I think, considerably higher than your average forum. Major plus.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

We've decided that the risk of disaster in the work place should things not go as planned far outweighs the excitement and enjoyment that may come from this encounter. So we will not be proceding with the co-worker at this time. Thank you for really hitting this home in your replies (6/6).

Originally Posted by tormontreal

Seeing as my Miss is more inclined to an organic development of such an evening as opposed to me scouring posting boards it could be some time before such an occasion presents itself again.

Erm. More like never. Why? Consider this; given that there's a significant subset of the population involved in swinging, chances are you've met several swingers in the past, and maybe even a friend or two of yours are swingers right now. And guess what? I'll wager you haven't a clue they are swingers. Further, they don't have a clue you'd be interested. Even further, playing with non-swingers is such a non-starter for most swingers that they won't approach non-swingers. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it's rare.

So, the chances of something happening organically is very, very low.

Originally Posted by tormontreal

Is anybody in a similar situation... where one of you is more inclined to take steps to make things happen and the other is more content to let things happen "naturally" if the situation is right? I'm very much a goal oriented person and am all about taking steps toward something i want. So sometimes my Miss feels like I might be a little too focused on setting up sex-adventures...

My wife is not a driver in our lifestyle adventures. She never has been, and probably never will be. We're very comfortable with that. She thoroughly enjoys swinging, and likes the adventures we go on, but she's never the one to set everything up. That's fine with us.

It's fine with us because we're always in communication about what I'm doing vis-a-vis setting things up. She's always in the loop. Further, I open doors of opportunity for her. I don't push her through. I make suggestions, but not tit-for-tat compromises or any other silly architecture. I ask her opinion, rather than first presenting what I feel/think and see if she agrees. I'm very, very oriented towards her happiness and this works really well for us.

I'd suggest you check out swing clubs in either the Montreal or Toronto metro areas. Both places have several options, as I recall. Plus, swing clubs are now legal across your country. There should be plenty of possible avenues of exploration.

Swing clubs are not sex free-for-alls where you're expected to walk in, get naked, and start fucking. They're in many ways just like any other night club. There's usually dancing, mood/stage lighting, music, drinking, lots of people chatting and getting acquainted etc. In many clubs, the sex play doesn't even happen in this area of the club...it's off in the play areas of the club, away from the dance floor etc. Your girlfriend would never be under pressure to do anything and if she was the person giving the pressure needs to be removed from the club (depending on how severe things get). Going to a swing club is a good way to dip your foot in the pool, to see how you like it. It's a nice environment; everyone is there for the same reason (more or less). Some clubs allow single males on certain nights, some clubs don't allow single males at all. Do some research up front and find a club that works for you.

And keep asking us any questions you have! We're happy to help!

[cplnuswing]

I can't add much to what has been some awesome advice other than to just affirm what others have said. If your Miss likes something more spontaneous and organic, and you've realized that co-workers and vanilla friends don't make for good playmates, then the answer is simply go where the swingers go. Find a good club, and have a night out together with no agenda other than to just have a great time with each other. See how that goes, and if it felt right, build on it from there.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by CXXC

Ms. Fuse
I wish I had seen your post before I spewed forth my diatribe! Well put and always appreciated!

I thought your "diatribe" was very well put and very useful to the OP and probably to others reading this thread.

[bbarnsworth]

tormontreal; came across a great example post just now of why, when 'organic' situations arising with friends or whatever you when the second male in the MFM is not a swinger, sometimes do not work out very well. Observe this post. Swinging males that have been in the lifestyle a while have fewer problem in this regard. They've "been there, done that" and it's not an issue.

So, even if an 'organic' situation develops, and may be considerably less than satisfying.

Just some food for thought. I would not advise using this to pressure your girlfriend Just communicate.