Separating the emotional from the physical?

[warrencouple]

OK, many of you have probably seen me (more so than the Mrs) around here, constantly pestering with questions (and one inappropriate pic warning)

Today, skimming the blog page, saw an old entry (don't recall which, it was the random entry) which mentioned separating the emotional from the physical when it comes to swinging.

The point of all this, is, I think that could be part of why the Mrs is adamant about not wanting another man, nor being willing to allow another woman in. Now, before anyone thinks this, I am NOT asking how to change her mind! What I am asking, is, when you started into swinging, how did you deal with the emotions you experienced with your first foray (whether soft swap, full swap, or just going to an event and admitting to being attracted to others to your mate)? How did / does your mate deal with it?

I am thinking that, for newbies, this is likely one of the hardest things to get past, when starting to swing. After all, the general attitude has been, for some time, once you meet / fall in love / marry someone, that's *it*, you should never even contemplate even physical attraction to another. Now, here you are, thinking about going to the play area with that couple you hit it off with, and watching your mate play with someone else, while you do the same. There would always be the risk, if only in your head, what if I decide I love this person, as much or more than my mate? What if my mate decides they love the other person more than me??

OK, I think I rambled, a bit.

Found the blog posting: Run, Unicorn, Run
It's the third comment, the one by TheDeal, who mentioned being unable to separate sex and emotions.

On a side note, we're still planning, at some point, to go back to the on-premise, and join. But, I'm leaving the scheduling up to the Mrs, and even trying to avoid nudging her about it, much less pushing.

Jason

[IvoryTowers]

Originally Posted by warrencouple

when you started into swinging, how did you deal with the emotions you experienced with your first foray (whether soft swap, full swap, or just going to an event and admitting to being attracted to others to your mate)? How did / does your mate deal with it?

There would always be the risk, if only in your head, what if I decide I love this person, as much or more than my mate? What if my mate decides they love the other person more than me??

I don't know if I'm usual here or not, but it never for a second occurred to me that my husband would fall in love with someone he played with. Is this seriously a concern for people? I was concerned he might have better sex with a play partner, but fall in love? With a woman he just met?

I don't buy "love at first sight" and never have. Love is a connection that takes time and knowledge of the other person. It requires trust, which can only be gained through testing and (again) time.

I can be attracted to someone, like someone, want to sleep with and/or get to know someone right away. But none of those things threaten my relationship with Mr. Ivory. If our culture didn't sell us crap like sex=love and "soul mates" and "love at first sight" we wouldn't be so neurotic about our partners meeting other people.

But I might be unusual; Mr. Ivory and I are on the poly side of swinging so we seek out and embrace emotional connection rather than run from it.

[JustAskJulie]

I don't think it's something that most people "get past". I think most couple who successfully swing are just able to make that separation (that most vanilla couples can't make). I do think that that separation is a part of what makes a swinger a swinger - when we say that it's more than an action/ it's an attitude... that's part of the attitude we are referring to (just part of it, mind you, not all of it).

[slevin]

When we first started neither of us knew how we would feel about it. We were both interested in it (to varying degrees) and it made us both very curious. So we decided to check it out, ease our way into it and we made a commitment to each other that no matter what that we would completely respect each others feelings about what happened. I can't say that we did anything in particular to get past something like that. We went to the club a few times, talked to people and only played with each other. We left it for quite a while and one day we both decided to stop pussyfooting around and just take the plunge.

We had both been hesitant to take the next step. So we sat down and talked about it, agreed that we'd look into meeting some couples. We also agreed that if either of us were uncomfortable with anything that would be the end of the night. After that we took the plunge, met a couple and played with them. I think we were both nervous as we got started, not knowing if we would be jealous or how we would handle it. Once things got going though I forgot all about worrying about being jealous and just had a lot of fun. We both did.

So, I'm not sure we ever dealt with it, or spent a lot of time thinking about how to handle it or anything. We just agreed that our relationship was the most important thing to us and no matter what happened we'd respect that (and each other). Not sure if that helps or not

[Chicup]

While on our first time I had the usual demons to slay about primal jealousy, I never worried about her getting connected to the other guy or me to the other female. Hell I think it took months of sleeping with, hanging out with, doing things with, just being always around Mrs. Chicup before I fell in love so while I look back on some of our swing partners with lust, emotional attachment isn't one of them.

We do have one couple we have played with for years, and that we 'love' but not even in a poly way, sort of closer than any vanilla can be friendship without the real emotional attachment of love.

This inability to separate love from sex is more of a fear than a reality. People have been doing it since the beginning of time. We have sex = love so ingrained in western thinking and Abrahamic religions as a whole that people think they are being somehow 'bad' for thinking otherwise.

Personally I think anyone can separate love from sex, but thats why a strong relationship with your spouse is important. If your relationship is weak, if you don't really love each other, if something is missing, than yes, another sex partner can lead to emotional attachment (aka love) and all the fallout that accompanies it.

This is why swinging will make a strong relationship stronger and a weak one shatter. For a strong relationship is shows just how your feeling for each other transcend the physical. For a weak one it highlights all thats wrong in it, and perhaps pushes it past fixable.

[iapr]

I can't speak for anyone else but here is what worked for us. Since day one, swinging has not been about "having sex with others" and we have never looked at it as pursuing other people or becoming involved with other people.

Swinging for us is about US and it is about us experiencing a different avenue of sexual adventure together as a couple. When we have a swinging encounter it is our experience as a couple. Yes there may be other people involved and in some instances we are each having intercourse with others but it is still our shared experience together as a couple and is just another part of our sexual dynamic as a couple.

Make no mistake, swinging IS a very emotionally charged activity and it is a powerfull experience. But for us anyway, that level of emotional intensity is being fed into our relationship as a married couple and it is not about an emotional attachment to our playmates.

Don't take that the wrong way, we do appreciate and enjoy our playmates as human beings and as swinging co-adventurers, but the swinging experience is feeding additional sexual energy in our relationship as a couple as well as feeding sexual energy into their relationship as a couple too.

In other words a swinging encounter is our sexual experience as a couple and the other people are just adding an extra degree of stimulation and excitement into it and we do the same thing for them and their relationship.

[PB&J]

Originally Posted by warrencouple

There would always be the risk, if only in your head, what if I decide I love this person, as much or more than my mate? What if my mate decides they love the other person more than me??

Is there that risk, even in my head? No. I am already in love, and nothing changes that. I can state with complete honesty that I have never, in the year and a half we have been swinging, felt any jealousy or fear in seeing my husband with another woman, and speaking for my husband, he has from the very first time been not afraid, or jealous, but rather incredibly turned on when he sees me having a wonderful time with another guy. Which is why same room can be so much fun. Nothing like locking eyes with your SO while fully physically engaged with someone else.

What I'm saying is, don't assume that this is something that HAS to be part of the swinging experience, if only at the beginning.

[gatorvol64]

I do believe its true that some people have a harder time separating sex and love. I just don't think it is impossible. The relationship Gator and I had at the time we started swinging, was strong enough that it wasn't a worry for me that he would fall in love with someone else or that I would either. Swinging was something we shared IN our relationship if that makes sense.

Now, I know it is common knowledge on here that Gator and I are now involved in a polyamorous relationship. And that he fell for Kitten hard long before I fell for Tech as anything more than a friend I just happened to have sex with. Did Gator fall as a result of our swinging and it being a bit harder for him to separate sex and love? As difficult as you may find it to believe, I don't think the swinging was the cause. The strong relationship we had before swinging and the level of communication we had while swinging is what made the eventual transition possible. No matter what we try to tell ourselves, we just can't turn off attraction to others with a marriage license. How we deal with that attraction is the key. Deny it and lots of times it leads to cheating or even divorce. Admitting it and communication about it and deciding how you as a couple are going to handle it are the keys.

I feel that the difficulties we had transitioning to poly were due to how we were raised and society in general. We are conditioned and taught we shouldn't have any attraction to others once we are committed to each other. It was getting past that conditioning that caused the most difficulties. Well, I think I can say they were at the root of all our difficulties.

Most swingers readily admit the attraction to others and do not want any emotional involvement with playmates. We were in that category. And could have happily stayed in that category. Once feelings started to manifest, we could have simply stopped contact with Tech and Kitten. We just chose not to. While poly isn't a want for many and can be difficult, it has lead to an even closer relationship between Gator and I.

However, I would say the key to avoiding emotional ties with others has been stated already in several replies here. Use it as an emotional bonding with your spouse. It more than worked, and worked to strengthen what Gator and I had until we CHOSE it to do otherwise.

I hope this hasn't come across as a warning emotional ties can happen or that they are inevitable. My intention was the opposite. Speaking from someone who let them develop, they were not necessary to our successful swinging at all and not something we wanted to begin with and we didn't find them hard to avoid.

Vol

[tie_knee_Pen_15]

This is what is holding me/us back, I believe. I'm afraid of what it might do to
our relationship. I've heard some scary stories abut people never recovering from a swap. Too much jealousy I guess?

[iapr]

Originally Posted by tie_knee_Pen_15

This is what is holding me/us back, I believe. I'm afraid of what it might do to
our relationship. I've heard some scary stories abut people never recovering from a swap. Too much jealousy I guess?

If you were to look into the background of the couples in question (assuming these "scary stories" are even true in the first place) you would likely find out that these couples were just hanging on by a thread to begin with. The chances are they had some serious underlying problems before they started swinging and should not have been there in the first place.

As has been said a million times on this and all the other boards out there, swinging is definately NOT for people with a troubled marriage. If a couple comes into swinging with a shakey marriage to begin with then swinging will most likely damage it and tear it apart.

If a couple comes into swinging with a rock solid foundation and good communication and a deep compassion and respect for each other and a committment to the marriage then one of two things will happen.

The first one is they will try it and it will work for them and it will make them even hotter for each other and stronger in their relationship.

Or they will try it, realize it really wasn't for them and they go back to a traditional marriage with no harm done and no regrets.

The key is foundation of the marriage and relationship to begin with.

[lustylearning]

I'm a firm believer that there are any number of potential romantic partners in the world, and there is a potential "emotional" connection with any number of playmates that you meet. Whether you see compatibility and allow connection to flourish is up to you and your partner. You control your emotions. If you come to the conclusion with your partner that your heart has room for more than one, you may pursue polyamory. If you prefer to limit and maintain status quo or move on, you do.

Previous posters have made excellent points. We are all capable of separating sex from love, but whether or not you can do it successfully depends on the strength of your relationship with your primary.

[LFM2]

There was a slight twinge that he might have feelings for someone else, but really I have no idea why I thought that. We've been married for centuries. We are each others best friend. Respect and trust is paramount in our marriage.

Is it a personality trait that designs a person to separate love and sex? I'm not sure. It's a mindset, maybe. We've never had a problem keeping our love life separate from our sexual life. Sex is just that: Sex. It's simple, it's fun and it's good exercise if done right. My emotions are mine. I can share them or not, but really, the only emotion I feel for a play partner is "this is fun" and I'm having a blast. I can't even imagine sharing a love type emotion with another person. I already have that person in my life whom I couldn't love more.

A one night fling isn't going to change his mind how he feels about me. I definitely know that a one time thing isn't going to change my mind.

We really do keep our swinging life simple. It's only sex. Nothing more. It's supposed to be fun and entertaining, which it is. We really do have the most fun when we swing.

[SexyNSingle]

As a woman who is often the 3rd in a 3sum, I can speak honestly and forthright and say that for me it is very erotic to watch the couple I play with to intereact with eacother as one or the other is playing with me.

I have often been asked how can I play with someone if I am not emotionally attached? For me it is a mindset, plain and simple. While it is true that you can become attached over time if you play moreso exclusively with a couple, moreoften than not, what happens is the chemistry just works and the connection is taken to a deeper level. Friendships for me are first and foremost, playing with someone(s) just enhances an already a great friendship.

I have only had one encounter where I played with one spouse and not the other and it turned out badly, primairly because one of the spouses wasn't as open as it first appeared. Unfortunately that isn't about me, it is about them, and yes it does happen.

The other thing that has happened from my experience is that wife of the relationship has become at times very threatened by me. Which tells me as a red flag NOT to play with the couple, because their relationship cannot be FIXED by adding me to the mix.

Having said that, I have learned that if the wife is truly not happy with the idea of adding me to the mix, I will not go there, it is just not worth it. I would rather have a solid friendship then a lifetime of misery.

Enjoy your experiences!

[unusualsuspects]

The thing I have noticed is it's a level of understanding of love -- love isn't a single emotion but a whole ecosystem of emotions and connections beyond happy, cozy, attracted, and lusty because. My wife and I understand that love means all that stuff but all the other stuff like sad, prickly, annoyed, and unsexy.

My wife and I got to this point through a lot of healthy communication and some playing with the boundaries and MUCH more communication. We know that part of what makes sex great is the lust attraction and maybe some of that is wrapped up in falling in love, but we have agreed the love that exists between us now is primary, and the playing is secondary.

I'm not saying that we couldn't fall in love with other people that we play with, but we don't seek it, and by having a policy of open comunication we know we'll handle it together.

[MrkLin]

I don't know if you read my incredibly long blog post about how we got involved in swinging, Jason, (if not, please check it out,) but I wrestled with the separation between love and sex as well. It's driven into us almost from birth that sex is the ultimate demonstration of your love for someone else, and is to be reserved for committed couples only. To some, that might very well be - I'll not argue that. On the other hand, just about all of us love someone we'd never consider having sex with, and a goodly portion of us have had sex (before swinging) with someone we didn't love.

To me, love is so much more than just sex that to equate the two cheapens both of them. True love doesn't happen over the course of an hour long roll in the hay. It's an emotional process that takes some longer than others to develop. Physical intimacy is one thing - emotional intimacy is quite another. My opinion is that keeping the two separate is easier than most people think.

Recreational sex isn't for everyone. Some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that recreational sex can even exist. There's nothing wrong with that - it's just another case of "whatever works for you."

What helped me to get beyond the "sex = love" thing was admitting to myself that at the end of the day, the other person wasn't taking anything away from or marriage. Quite the opposite - they were adding to it. It's a short tag line on a profile, but it speaks volumes: We're not looking for replacements, we're looking for augmentations...

Another factor that I haven't seen addressed is that some people just don't want to separate love from sex. That's fine as well. I think that if your SO is one of the people that truly believes that sex is a special demonstration of the love you have for one another, that you shouldn't try to change that. Doing so would cheapen love and sex in their eyes, and also change their love for you. After all, at the end of the day, that's what counts the most - your relationship.