making progress

[simplyinit]

I just want to say that all of the advice on this board has been great. We've been married a few years and I (M) have had a little experience before meeting my wife. ...turns out my friend (lives across the country) was in the lifestyle, and her and her husband brought me to an onsite club...a very eye opening experience

Anyway, my wife is pretty conservative as it goes and the first time I had mentioned that I'd be ok with having a 3some, I got a pretty bad reaction. Of course not pushing the subject, I let it go for a while and would just hint at it now and then. It was about a year later when we could actually talk about it...briefly...without bad feelings. Of course during sex, it was all good. Following the advice here, I tried to keep talking (not during sex) to her about it...my feelings, wants, etc. and encouraged her to open up about hers. Another year before she started talking openly about it and admitted that she might be open to it IF we found the right people. More talking led to us sharing what we'd want out of it and why we'd want to get involved in the lifestyle. I knew this was a positive direction and just kept the non-pushy talk. Another year and she surprised me one day asking if I was really serious about going for it. I said of course and she started telling me about a coworker of hers. Picture in my head a little man jumping around celebrating...lol. One problem, she had told me things before that I didn't really like...that he wanted to take her away, etc. (jokingly of course), but that just didn't sit well. So, I had to say no to that one. She respected my feelings and didn't say anything else about him. She has since changed jobs.

Another year brings us to today, and my attempts at suggesting us trying to meet someone else, either online or not, have met a 'not interested' response from her. She says she wants to make friends first (with no intention of anything sexual) and after a good relationship forms, possibly take it to the next level (as in the case with her coworker). I agree with that...no one night stands. But, I've told her it might prove difficult to make friends and then try to see if they're 'open' like that.

My question, after that LONG story, is how to proceed. I heard mixed things on here about involving your friends. So how would you meet people for a non-sexual relationship and possibly turn it sexual without the risk of an awkward situation or losing them as friends? At least if you met people with the intention of possible 'fun', it wouldn't be such a surprise when the time came. But, she just doesn't want that route. ...maybe we should just start hitting on our existing friends (joke of course)

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanx!

[IvoryTowers]

That's a tough one and one thing I'd suggest up front is that your wife get on this forum and maybe some other swinger and poly forums.

I suggest this for three reasons. 1) It is much much MUCH more difficult to have friends and then start swinging with them then to swing and develop friendships out of that. This isn't particular to swinging; it's true of any hobby that requires specialized knowledge or effort. Say your wife really loved horse back riding. What would make more sense: to meet people through work or other hobbies and then try to convince them to take up the expensive and difficult hobby of horseback riding, or to start riding herself and make friend with others who rode?

2) If your wife really wants commitment and friendship with the people she has sex with, she may actually want a poly relationship rather than swinging and you need to negotiate that. Or this may be her way of seeming open to your desires without having to give in to them ("Honey, I really do want to give us the chance to experience this, but you know I can only be interested during a full moon, on a Thursday, when the temperature is between 70 and 75 degrees, okay?") If that's the case, if she's holding out for the perfect moment when she'll feel totally comfortable, she (and you) need to know it will never happen! The first time is going to be awkward at first, no matter how much you both want it.

3) I would be a little worried, myself, if the introduction to swinging came through a single person who was friends with/attracted to my partner! That sounds like a recipe for a crush at best and a divorce at worst, and as a first experience there are just too many landmines. In fact, when Mr. Ivory and I started the one rule I had was "you can sleep with anyone, but you can't fall in love with her." (Well, that and condom use of course). We've met a lot of great people and some have become friends but since they are all couples and all part of the lifestyle I don't have to worry that another woman is going to decide that if she can win Mr. Ivory's heart she can have him all to herself. Drama BAD!

[fun4Ds]

Welcome to the Swingers Board, simplyinit

It seems you are very patient. Most can say swinging with vanilla friends can be delicate at best and devastating at worst.

Would your wife be willing to visit a club or meet and greet like you have..... Just for you ?

Checking out these places together can often lead to the socializing with people like us. I know I can't count the times we have been to these type of places doing nothing but socializing and Mrs fun has later said " I like these people/person, I would like to get to know them better" And we have.

I don't see visiting a club on your behalf/request, as your partner, taking one for the team or having to do anything more than socializing....

[ncmd_couple]

Simplyinit,

Welcome to the Swinger's Board! The other option is to put an ad on Swing Lifestyle that clearly states what you and your wife want. Friends first, maybe more later. First off, you will already know what they are swingers. Or at least wannabe swingers. I also agree with fun4Ds' suggestion about meet-n-greets and clubs. Many of them allow single guys to attend. You can get to know them at the event and then decide.

The other possibility is that your wife is putting up a hurdle that she thinks you can't jump to make it happen. Something to consider.

S

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by simplyinit

<snip> Following the advice here, I tried to keep talking (not during sex) to her about it...my feelings, wants, etc. and encouraged her to open up about hers. Another year before she started talking openly about it and admitted that she might be open to it IF we found the right people. More talking led to us sharing what we'd want out of it and why we'd want to get involved in the lifestyle. I knew this was a positive direction and just kept the non-pushy talk. Another year and she surprised me one day asking if I was really serious about going for it. I said of course and she started telling me about a coworker of hers. Picture in my head a little man jumping around celebrating...lol. One problem, she had told me things before that I didn't really like...that he wanted to take her away, etc. (jokingly of course), but that just didn't sit well. So, I had to say no to that one. She respected my feelings and didn't say anything else about him. She has since changed jobs.

First of all, to the Swingers Board. I'm glad that whatever you've been reading here has been beneficial to you. We can only hope your wife has been reading here, too. You're right about the amount of great advice you can get here.

Secondly, I'm glad you vetoed the man at work and him wanting to take her away. What a HUGE red flag. What do you think might have happened if you'd said, "Yeah, go for it, honey?" It might not have been a joke to her at the time, but hearing you say no, she made it into a joke. I'm suspicious of other people outside the swinging world when it comes to sex. Their intentions might not be all that clear or all that well meaning.

Sometimes, husbands get so caught up in doing whatever the wife will want because they’ve FINALLY (in your case, years) consented to swing. They’ll agree to anything just to get that chance to play with someone else. I think my husband was so happy that I’d agree to try this that he went along with any rule I put down. Not really fair to him, was I?

Originally Posted by simplyinit

Another year brings us to today, and my attempts at suggesting us trying to meet someone else, either online or not, have met a 'not interested' response from her. She says she wants to make friends first (with no intention of anything sexual) and after a good relationship forms, possibly take it to the next level (as in the case with her coworker). I agree with that...no one night stands. But, I've told her it might prove difficult to make friends and then try to see if they're 'open' like that.

Boy, what an uphill battle that will be. If you can't look online or otherwise, how AND where are you going to find someone with a "swinging" mind? Is she suggesting taking a person off the street and making friends with them and seeing then if they would like a threesome? Robbing Ft. Knox could be easier. Are you following what I'm saying? I also fear that having anyone from work (either hers or yours) as a third party in any relationship would be disastrous.

Originally Posted by simplyinit

My question, after that LONG story, is how to proceed. I heard mixed things on here about involving your friends. So how would you meet people for a non-sexual relationship and possibly turn it sexual without the risk of an awkward situation or losing them as friends? At least if you met people with the intention of possible 'fun', it wouldn't be such a surprise when the time came. But, she just doesn't want that route. ...maybe we should just start hitting on our existing friends (joke of course)
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanx!

We would never even think of involving our vanilla friends. We do however go online to look for suitable partners. I need to know that they are after the same thing we are: Sex – pure and simple. Sure, friendship can be obtained. I know swingers that party, BBQ, share picnics and go camping with their immediate families and that's OK. It's just not something that we choose to do. I'm sure someone here might have other advice about picking someone off the street and making friends with them in the intention of turning them into someone they want to swing with, if the other person has that intention, too. It's almost like she's asking for the impossible. I'm shaking my head wondering why she is making the search an impossible one. Maybe because she really doesn't want to swing and she's making this search as hard as it can be? I'm also curious why she doesn't want to look to people who already swing? They can be friends before anything happens as well. What are her suggestions for finding someone? Surely, she thought this out before she came up with the premise of finding someone to turn into a swinging partner, right?

[good times]

I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like your wife is not really interested in swinging and is trying to let you down easy. In order to swing successfully and meet swingers you have to be willing to go were the swingers go and meet them. The easiest way for your wife to stop this without actually giving a flat "NO" to you is to make it so that doesn't happen.

[bbarnsworth]

I agree with what Good Times said above. I think your wife might be interested in swinging though if a perfect situation arose. But, without going where the swingers are, this 'perfect' situation will never happen. "You know honey, I'd really like to buy a brand new hot red sports car. No, I don't want to go to a car dealer, or do any reading of advertisements online or in the papers to find it" Chances of finding that car? Zero.

You might try suggesting a swingers social. It's just a meet and greet, with no expectations of anything. Just hanging out with swinging people. Your wife might then realize that swingers are attractive and available. Either that or meeting up with a couple that swings; not with the expectation of any play, just to talk about swinging. We had a couple do that with us. It helped.

You've been wonderful being so patient. VERY impressive on your part! Bravo!

[slevin]

Many women like the idea, but they don't want the reality of what it takes to get it. They love the "it just happened" situations so much so that they will let their desires suffer so they don't feel like a slut.

That doesn't really help you much except to point out the situation. In those cases it helps to lead things in the direction you both want. Be in control, know what you both want and make it happen. She gets to keep her "it just happened" fantasy and you both enjoy what you wanted to happen. In other words, in her mind she can always fall back on "I'm not a slut". Not the best situation for swinging IMO, but it can work. I still prefer being on the same page and approaching swinging as a team with both people up front and involved.