Trying to coach her into the lifestyle...

[WonderWhat]

Ummmm... I would like to insist that she should not start out by herself . If she's uncomfortable with the idea of having you present, I suggest you start channeling the fantasies towards a scenario where you are. Then you let that mature into a voyeur or threesome experience.

Why do I insist? I really can't put my finger on it, but there is something in the long-term repression of her fantasy that doesn't click. Let me think "out loud" for a bit...

First, for a long time it would make her climax immediately, and out of bed she would cut it off instantly. Additionally, she almost did it without your knowledge or explicit acceptance and felt like a "cheater".

That tells me that she hasn't thought everything out; she keeps repressing it, and that does not lead to introspection. That will lead to both of you being blindsided when something happens eventually.

Alex, even if this is your dearest and most precious fantasy and you would do anything to let it happen, do not play the part of the ever-understanding and ever-compliant partner. That Way Be Dragons.

She seems to me to be the kind of person who "externalizes" control. In other words, she wants someone besides herself (the "situation", her family, society, or Alex) to make the decision for her. If something blows up, she will feel vindicated that she was right all along, and somebody will be to blame. Namely... you.

DISCLAIMER: I might be projecting myself. Something like this happened in my first marriage's spectacular blow-up. Not that I was seeking to swing (I would have loved it), but that my ex's repressions made her do a lot of very stupid, dangerous and hurtful things, and she claims not to even remember half of it, let alone why. Your description of your GF's attitudes and actions ring a bell, and not a very melodious one.

What I think you did well was 1) tell her that you were bothered by it 2) tell her that if she had asked for permission beforehand, you might have agreed. I think that if she had texted it wouldn't have been enough, I think that a first big step would warrant a phone conversation, but your comments go in the right direction.

Take care, talk it out, take baby steps, set explicit boundaries that will not be moved until they are re-examined. More importantly, have her decide for herself; you will not give "permission," but will agree or not with what she wants.

[Alex855]

thank you all, this is being a real eye opener. I'll keep you all updated

[WonderWhat]

While I reread the whole thread a while ago, something struck me as interesting and important (emphasis is mine):

Originally Posted by Alex855

[...] if she would have texted me about how horny she was feeling and that she wanted to fuck him, she would have had my consent. She admitted that she had trouble believing me.

I really think that for this whole thing to work out, you have to be present while the fantasy progresses and turns into reality. If you're there, she will see you get hot and bothered, and she will believe in her bones that you really want this.

This will put her fears to rest and will start to enjoy her fantasies and realities. If she does it alone, she will start second-guessing herself during play, and will not believe you when she gets back home and tells you about it. That can eat her from within and things might get nasty.

Originally Posted by Alex855

As it goes against the nature of every guy. I told her that I didn't know why but it turns me on.

Guess again: it does not "go against the nature of every guy." Fantasizing about seeing your woman having sex is common to almost every guy I know, swingers or vanilla. What is uncommon is that the jealousy does not overwhelm that fantasy.

We humans are a mixed bag of conflicting desires and emotions. The trick is in how you decide which desires and emotions will be played out.

[realcplub2]

Alex, please re read all of the replies within this thread.. all are offering excellent advice.

Part of the issue as I see it is, given the replies you have made in her commentary, She seems to be worried that IF she does do this, and again I add my voice to the others, DO NOT DO THIS SEPERATELY, that YOU will think/feel/treat her differently.

I am going to point out something that most men who do begin this way already know.. In a 3some, with another man, it CAN be difficult, seeing the loved one enjoying another man.. random thoughts wander the brain case..

" she seems to be moaning more/differently than she does with me"
"She doesnt do that with me"

Now ask yourself a question, if she does this WITHOUT you there, arent you going to be eating yourself alive wondering if she told you everything, she left anything out.. Or worse, did she make another date to meet him without telling me?

And to echo one of the first posts.. Fantasy and reality arent the same thing.. and Yes sometimes the REALITY isnt as good as the FANTASY..

But the biggest reason I take the postion I do is, as a couple, which you are, SHARING the expereince together is much better for you both than Her doing and You Listening..

That is unless she is a Jackie Collins or Nora Roberts in training, you still run the risk of resenting the whole thing

[Rembrandt]

I was sitting here reading this thread and I was thinking how lucky you are. You have a lady in your life that is willing to talk to you and obviously you are in love with her. Take your time and enjoy each other's company. You have received some of the best advice anyone could get in this thread. All I can add is don't worry and remember what is important. Talk is crucial, keep communicating and not just about this subject. Talk about everything. I know that my lady and I got to be much closer when the doors of communication were thrown wide open. Just be smart, be caring and attentive. Above all just love her and make sure that your relationship is maintained. The more secure she is the more she will be able to be open with you.

I would wish you luck but it seems like you already have a lot of that. I wish will wish you both a long and interesting life. Take big bites my friend - moderation is for monks. Life is far too short to waste it.

Rembrandt

[dlflorida]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

You've got a long way to go yet. Patience. You've exhibited a lot of it, you're going to have to exhibit a lot more. The distance between fantasy and reality is very great, and getting from one to the other takes a lot of time, a lot of talking, a lot of love, and a lot of patience for most couples. Avoid any sense, either inwardly or outwardly from yourself, that this is a direction you're wanting to go for yourself. Your partner needs to want this, needs to cross the bridge. In this case, since you want it to happen, your job is to hold her hand, find answers to her questions as best you can (ask here!), shower her with love and affection.

There's a huge difference between wanting something in the bedroom and wanting it when you're out and about in the humdrum of life, doing something completely unrelated to sex. A good measure of desire is if a person wants to swing while doing things completely unrelated, and the more unrelated the better, and feels that way frequently.


As for fucking other men without you present; be careful. There's plenty of couples that make that sort of situation work. There's many others that avoid it entirely. There's still others that think they can handle it and find out otherwise. See http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...-starters.html. Save yourself the reading if you want; read the first and 27th/28th pages for how well that worked out. In short, utter chaos and destruction, with a six year old child as the innocent victim.

Personally, I would NOT want my wife to be fucking other men without me present. If she had a consistent male sex buddy, then down the road a long ways I could see it being possible. But, as a way to explore swinging? No way. Absolutely no way. If your girlfriend isn't comfortable having sex with other men while you are present, she's very most likely not ready to swing, though there are certainly exceptions.

Bbarnsworth is spot on, as usual. We had our first experience three days ago
and I was conflicted afterwards for a period of eight hours but I got some rest and perspective and realized my "green monster" was a figment of my imagination, I relaxed. Barnsworth has been "mentoring" us and has been a huge help. HUGE help.
Use the site as a resource. Have your GF read posts / threads. Many situations will be covered, especially in the new section. Our journey has just started and we are excited.

Patience is a virtue!

Good luck

[Alex855]

another update:

We were at a party last week and after a whole day of drinking (I know thats twice but trust me we are just casual drinkers) she loosened and was being flirty with a guy that I knew was her type. Nothing to really write home about but I know her so I know she was certainly flirting. The guy was certainly flirting back for sure. I didn't feel jealous as she would occasionally look over at me and give me a smile as looking for assurance.

On the way home we talked about how she felt and what I felt. She was truthful and felt that she was attracted and was looking at me to see if I liked what I saw. However we both decided that we don't quite understand the emotions that are going on. It's all too complex. So for the time being no action is to be taken until we know we are ready. Interestingly enough we talked about an MFM and for the first time out of the bedroom she was open to the idea.

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by Alex855

On the way home we talked about how she felt and what I felt. She was truthful and felt that she was attracted and was looking at me to see if I liked what I saw. However we both decided that we don't quite understand the emotions that are going on. It's all too complex. So for the time being no action is to be taken until we know we are ready. Interestingly enough we talked about an MFM and for the first time out of the bedroom she was open to the idea.

You guys are making good decisions

Julie once offered me some advice, " Sometimes, It's like helping to find pieces to a puzzle "

I didn't get that till this morning, reading this.....

I personally may never see the complete picture in your relationship or as swingers. But you will, as it develops.

Thank you, for helping me !

[mixtupcpl]

Loki, is that you? I kid, I kid!

Seriously though, I think you should be sure you know where your girlfriend really stands on all of this. You guys have only been together a few years (unless I misread). Thats actually not a very long time, to be honest.

Someone made the comment that it sounds like you want to be a cuckold. I kind of tend to agree with that based on what you've written.

From what you've described, your girlfriend seems to have jumped in pretty enthusiastically. I think you need to spend a lot more time focused specifically on her feelings/emotions/wants/needs. Make sure that you guys are really in the same place and that she is satisfied physically and emotionally in your current relationship. That there were no skeletons lurking in your closet and that this new arrangement isnt just going to be an outlet to relieve pressures that may have been building.

I think *any* arrangement can work (at least for some period of time) as long as both people are really being honest about where they are emotionally and what they want. But I think often, things can go horribly wrong because one person is letting the excitement of it all kind of cloud their view of what the other party may really be thinking.

[WonderWhat]

Originally Posted by Alex855

On the way home we talked about how she felt and what I felt. She was truthful and felt that she was attracted and was looking at me to see if I liked what I saw. However we both decided that we don't quite understand the emotions that are going on. It's all too complex. So for the time being no action is to be taken until we know we are ready. Interestingly enough we talked about an MFM and for the first time out of the bedroom she was open to the idea.

Bravo!

That's the way most of us here have dipped our toes and found our boundaries. Baby steps, think about it together and talk, talk, talk.

That line you just crossed is a really exciting moment in a relationship: complex and unknown emotions and situations are not frightening anymore. They're something to be worked on as a couple, and that attitude starts to find its way into other aspects of your lives, enriching them immensely.

[Alex855]

I just wanted to clear up a few things

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

Loki, is that you? I kid, I kid!

oh don't even kid about that. I read that thread...

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

Seriously though, I think you should be sure you know where your girlfriend really stands on all of this. You guys have only been together a few years (unless I misread). Thats actually not a very long time, to be honest.

I hear you and just to clarify actually we have been together for 11 years

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

From what you've described, your girlfriend seems to have jumped in pretty enthusiastically.

I would disagree since it has taken years get to this point. And only seems to let loose with a alcohol. Actually that was a topic of our conversation and part of the reason we decided to take a step back. We aren't ready

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

I think you need to spend a lot more time focused specifically on her feelings/emotions/wants/needs. Make sure that you guys are really in the same place and that she is satisfied physically and emotionally in your current relationship. That there were no skeletons lurking in your closet and that this new arrangement isnt just going to be an outlet to relieve pressures that may have been building.

I think *any* arrangement can work (at least for some period of time) as long as both people are really being honest about where they are emotionally and what they want. But I think often, things can go horribly wrong because one person is letting the excitement of it all kind of cloud their view of what the other party may really be thinking.

i just wanted to say thank you all for the advice. I am soaking all of this in like a sponge.

[Alex855]

update... a year and 2 months later lol...see guys I told you i move at a snails pace and that i have
patience... ok first and foremost im on my cell so please excuse my lack of capitalization. :-)

ok well we put it in the back burner for sure. The only time this topic came up in the last year was a few months ago when we were at a party and a close friend of mine kept talking to my gf about sex. Thats nothing new and its blatantly obvious that he finds her attractive as it comes out when he drinks. but it ends there.

On the way home i took the oppurtunity to say something just to bring the topic back from the dead. so in mid conversation i told her that it was so obvious that George (my friend) would love to fuck her. she replied 'i know lol', then i said 'hes been wanting to for years, and you know he would pound you hard, especially if he found out that you are a backdoor girl'... 'yeah i know lol' and we laughed. i said that because she likes it a little rough and he would do that. as thats how he does it (Ive knowned him since we were teens) and plus he is completely infactuated with the backdoor, add that to the lust and it doesnt take a genious to know how it would go down.

i must apologize but i gotta go right now. ill continue in a few as that story has relevance.

[LFM2]

waiting....

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by LFM2

waiting....

Stop hogging the popcorn and pass it already!

Alex, I want to say how much I appreciate you keeping us updated on how things are progressing. Every relationship has a story, and your journey along the path of swinging, whether it results in swinging or not, is an education for all of us. I know I personally appreciate all the patience you've exhibited in this with respect to your girlfriend, and this thread stands in stark contrast to the Loki thread you've read before. It's this kind of story that can be pointed to as an opposite case of Loki's, an opposite case of how TO do it, rather than the way Loki went about it.

So indeed, passing the popcorn is an apt analogy. This is a great story, well worth the reading, and thank you SO much for sharing and continuing to share!

[LFM2]

Agreed, Alex. I also appreciate you keeping us updated and for sharing something so personal in your life.