Just the facts. Need your advice.

[dgoody1234]

I will go straight to the point, since reading your posts you all obviously have a lot of incite into what I should, or should not do.

1. Married 11 years.
2. 5 kids.
3. Strong sexual drive by both of us. Do it 3-4 times a week.
4. Smoke and drink 3-4 times a week (a clue?).
5. Wife was a virgin when we married.
6. I was a sailor (say no more).
7. Her family was hard core Christian.
8. Since being together has seen that evangelical life is not for us.
9. Wife watched first porn at 19 -- saw two females and had orgasm.
10. Since being together I have seen her be very strong towards other women when she drinks.
11. Gives me fantasies in bed from time to time about another woman and me being with her and the other woman.
12. Next day says -- "don't talk about it."
13. Sometimes likes watching porn -- only if drinking usually.
14. During porn session will get really wild and wants another woman to go down on her.
15. At first was a bit aprehensive about me being with another woman -- now after 11 years of marriage, sometimes says she would be ok, as long as she gets licked and rubbed, and kissed (only happens when she is drinking).
16. Have asked her about swinging -- says, "it will only destroy our marriage."
17. I want to be with another woman.
18. I love women, so am afraid I could actually get feelings towards another woman -- she knows this about me, and is afraid as well.
19. I am a "free spirit" -- wife knows this and is always guarded against letting me go.
20. I have fantasies about her being with another man (couples only) but am afraid I am too jealous and would be angry if I saw my virgin bride be with another man.
21. A couple of years ago I almost called an escort -- at first wife said no, but then let me make the call??? Does she want this and just needs me to take control? Is this similar to when we I was in High School and the girl said no, then grabbed me to keep going? I am confused??
I hung up the phone and didn't do it, but thought the wife was intrigued.

Anyway, I think you get the idea. What do you all think? Thoughts? Comments?

Obviously I know that most of this seems to come down to alcohol, but I wonder sometimes if alcohol is not the social lubricant some people need to be honest about who they really are.

Any help would be appreciated.

[two4youinswva]

1. I think you two should talk about your desires without alcohol, and when not having sex.
2. I think sometimes the fantasy is better than the reality.
3 You should spend a lot of time reading the forums dealing with jealousy, and new couple concerns.
4. You should show her this board, and encourage her to explore some of the subjects discussed around here.

Is swinging for you? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. You have indicated some issues that are what I consider to be red flags though. Read this board together, and talk, talk, talk. Whatever the outcome, your relationship will be better for it.

[fun4Ds]

Welcome to the Swingers Board Mr and Mrs dgoody

Originally Posted by dgoody1234

I will go straight to the point, since reading your posts you all obviously have a lot of incite into what I should, or should not do.

We will give it a try. However, we like to have fun..

1. Married 11 years.

We got 30

2. 5 kids.

3 here with 7 grand kids

3. Strong sexual drive by both of us. Do it 3-4 times a week.

O.K. we are getting older, but we can keep up with ya if we apply ourselves

4. Smoke and drink 3-4 times a week (a clue?).

Don't blow it in our face. Keep the ashes in the ashtray. No fighting over the potato chips.

5. Wife was a virgin when we married.

So was the virgin Mary. As for me, I kinda popped Mrs funs cherry before we said, "I do".

6. I was a sailor (say no more).

OK I wont. But we do have a boat and like the water in the summer. Its all we got, cool ?

7. Her family was hard core Christian.

We really don't care if we meet her family..... But, some Christians are cool too.

8. Since being together has seen that evangelical life is not for us.

Thats a good thing. You cant touch the screen while I make a funny face, and be healed as a swinger.

9. Wife watched first porn at 19 -- saw two females and had orgasm.

Were they in the room with her ?

10. Since being together I have seen her be very strong towards other women when she drinks.

Well ...... BE CAREFUL. Its all I got to offer for now.

11. Gives me fantasies in bed from time to time about another woman and me being with her and the other woman.

We like her way of thinking...

12. Next day says -- "don't talk about it."

This one you really need to work on. Talking and listening about everything is crucial. There is no other way. If you ever get to swing, You will be talking about it the next day... Trust me on this one.

13. Sometimes likes watching porn -- only if drinking usually.

Aha, don't fool yourself. She might be watching it while your at work. Mrs fun did. She just wouldn't fess up, in the beginning. This comes out in the Talking and Listening usually.

14. During porn session will get really wild and wants another woman to go down on her.

Well so do we usually. But lets not rule out a MFM scenario, just yet

15. At first was a bit aprehensive about me being with another woman -- now after 11 years of marriage, sometimes says she would be ok, as long as she gets licked and rubbed, and kissed (only happens when she is drinking).

Watch the drinking, I have been passed out on. NOT GOOD..

16. Have asked her about swinging -- says, "it will only destroy our marriage."

Oh yea... We, and all our married swinging friends could argue that fact.... But we won't.. We would rather encourage and share our happiness with others

17. I want to be with another woman.

So does me and Mrs fun.... sometimes.

18. I love women, so am afraid I could actually get feelings towards another woman -- she knows this about me, and is afraid as well.

You don't fall in love with my wife and I wont fall in love with yours. DEAL ?

19. I am a "free spirit" -- wife knows this and is always guarded against letting me go.

That needs defined a little more... Your not like crazy or anything are ya ? How do ya feel about standing in the path of a tornado ?

20. I have fantasies about her being with another man (couples only) but am afraid I am too jealous and would be angry if I saw my virgin bride be with another man.

We could turn out the lights I suppose. Its your call on this one.

21. A couple of years ago I almost called an escort -- at first wife said no, but then let me make the call??? Does she want this and just needs me to take control? Is this similar to when we I was in High School and the girl said no, then grabbed me to keep going? I am confused??
I hung up the phone and didn't do it, but thought the wife was intrigued.

I had a drop dead, hot ass, hooker tell me once after I declined. That I didn't seem like the type, that would have to pay for pussy. I feel pretty darn good about that. Even to this day.

Anyway, I think you get the idea. What do you all think? Thoughts? Comments?

I tried to explain a little about how we feel. Thanks for listening

Obviously I know that most of this seems to come down to alcohol, but I wonder sometimes if alcohol is not the social lubricant some people need to be honest about who they really are.

Look, I don't drink and play, I drive home for one. The truth is it effects me. I don't want to let anything hamper my senses about anyone interested in me. I like to feel a womans "VIBE" and be sure of everything. I like what I feel. I don't drink for myself, and the ladies.(no complaints so far) I can get naked and screw, enjoy the party. Although, It does feel awkward dancing sober.... Strange I suppose, but Its a problem I work on.

Mrs fun does have a few when we are out as do most friends. I love watching a woman dance, Its a really beautifully thing. Just keep it cool. Its all good. Right on ?

Any help would be appreciated

Listen to the other swingers chime in here. There is so much good advice here on the Swingers Board. Both of you ask anything you like here. Read some of what the women and men in the lifestyle have to say. Whether we want to have sex is about compatibility. You will see that. As Swingers we share something extrodnary.... You'll see.....

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by dgoody1234

IObviously I know that most of this seems to come down to alcohol, but I wonder sometimes if alcohol is not the social lubricant some people need to be honest about who they really are.

Ok, I don't think that alcohol is needed to be honest about who they really are. Alcohol can be an enabler to doing/saying something you wouldn't normally when sober.

The first boyfriend that I had sex with, it was a very committed relationship. We even talked marriage (but since I was 18, I didn't really want to get married that young and we dated the whole time I was in h.s.)...but I was curious about having sex with other men and just really couldn't fathom him being the end all be all.

First, your wife had a very religious upbringing and she is having to deal with that (ie: potential desire for another man or woman goes against her evangelical upbringing/notion that marriage and all physical aspects thereof are sacred). So, when she watches porn, or fantasizes about being with other men/women...perhaps she feels guilty or dirty (like a 'good wife wouldn't think/want those sorts of things') and perhaps that is why she doesn't want to talk about it.

Secondly, if she (and you) are aware of your propensity to form easy emotional attachments (and your 'free spirited-ness')...all I can say there is, if my bf were that way I wouldn't want him having sex with someone else either. You have to go in with the mindset that it is all physical. For your wife, she sees this being destructive to your marriage and the possibility of raising 5 kids on her own if the marriage does break down.

Talking with each other can possibly alleviate some of these fears/concerns, but you may want to face the fact that your wife may NEVER want to swing. As the previous poster has said, sometimes fantasy is way better than reality.

Good luck.

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by dgoody1234

6. I was a sailor (say no more).

"Let's go get laid my boys, let's go get laid...."



Seriously, what those above me said. There's red flags popping up here, and caution is advised. Set condition Dog-Zebra until you get these issues worked out. If you can't do it without alcohol, bad juju.

[iapr]

There are definately some red flags here and some issues that may need to be worked out before considering making anything happen in real life. I'll address a few things first and then I'll throw my $.02 worth in on the alcohol issue.

1. the fact that she doesn't want to talk about it sober and in the light of day is a HUGE red flag and is deal buster untill you can get past that. If you are going to bring others into your bedroom you HAVE to talk about it and you have to talk about it stone-cold sober and while the hormones aren't raging. and it's not a one time conversation. If you are going to be bringing others into your sexual dynamic you need to be able to discuss it on an ongoing basis because swinging is a very dynamic and fluid thing.

If you can't talk and communicate you can't swing. Period.

2. She believes swinging will destroy your marriage. Does she have valid reason to believe this? It sounds like she is afraid of your "free spirit" and feels that one of you needs to be in control of things and keep the lid on things. this is caused by one of two things. it's either A. she has valid reason to believe you cannot be trusted and will possibly take things to far. or B. she has inappropriate insecurities and jealousys. Both A and B are equally bad and are both deal breakers untill they can be resolved.

3. You have your own jealousy and anger issues in regard to her being with other men. this is a red flag as well and also could be a deal breaker. Now I know you are gearing a lot of this towards her being with another woman but here's the rub - there really aren't a lot of single women that are available for couples to experiment with. The vast vast vast majority of the women in the world come with a man attached and those men are just like you and they also love women and want to be with other women. The chances of you finding a single chick to do all this stuff with is just about nil. Just by shear numbers you will most likely have to negotiate with couples and those couples will have a man involved.

4. The whole issue over the escort just sounds fucked up and dysfunctional and I am a supporter of couples utilizing legalized brothels in Nevada. That incident sounds to be as if it were a power struggle and things were being said and done out of hostility and frustration.

All in all I don't think you two have the stability and level of compassion, understanding and communication that it will take to do this without serious repercussions after the fact. Sure anyone can bring home a nasty drunk chick from the bar but you will be fighting tooth and nail soon afterwards and will be heading for divorce court in months afterward.

[iapr]

Ok so now lets talk about this alcohol issue. I think the fact that you have pointed out the alcohol at so many points tells me that you believe she has a drinking problem and if you think she has a drinking problem she does whether she passes or fails a standardized alcoholism assessment or not.

From your descriptions it sounds like alcohol is a major playing in a lot of things regarding your sex life in general as well as this issue about fantasizing about other women. This is a very problematic issue that goes deeper than just needing a drink or two to loosen up.

The fact that you state you/she consumes alcohol 3-4 times a week means she is probably really doing it daily even though she may not be falling down drunk or even showing any outwards signs of alcoholism.

I also don't think it is coincidence that you state you/she drinks 3-4 times a week and you have sex 3-4 times a week. Alcohol appears to be a big factor in your sexual dynamic as a couple and that is always a problem.

Here's a big issue, if either of you does have a drinking problem this is going to blow up to disasterous levels in very short order. People say and do things and react to things while under the influence that they never would while sober. If there is something that you wouldn't do while stone-cold sober, the chances are you shouldn't do it ever. The fact that she "needs" alcohol to talk about these things and to feel certain ways and to do certain things is highly dysfunctional and pathologic.

If she is an alcoholic then she is in a pathologic state 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. She is not firing on all cylinders and she is not thinking straight or reacting to her surroundings in an appropriate manner. If you were to do a CAT scan of a normal healthy brain and an alcoholic brain, they are different physiologically. Alcohol is a toxin and her brain is under the infuence of a brain damaging poison and so she does not think rationally, does not experience normal feelings appropriately and does not react to things in an appropriate manner.

If you even slightly suspect that either of you is thinking about things or feeling certain things while under the influence of alcohol or other intoxicants and you can't talk about these things or want to pursue them while sober the for GOD'S SAKE DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT proceed with any thoughts of bringing someone else into your bedroom!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to have some semblence of sanity and happiness in your life, you need to address these issues completely before you even think of trying to get her to mash flesh with some other chick.

[dgoody1234]

I really appreciate the responses. I have to admit I thought I would read something like iapr's posts.

You are right that we are in no way ready to experience anything like swinging. The fact of the matter is that I push my wife because I have the fantasies and I use alcohol to loosen her up and have her say what I want -- obviously that is not totally healthy, or fair.

I don't want to ever share my wife with another man and am completely selfish, and will admit that I just want the freedom to do what I want to do -- I guess I am getting that itch for other women and want the permission to be with them. I guess I figure that if she came along for the experience then I could never be blamed for cheating. I thought the idea of an escort would be the best way because I could keep it all business and be with a professional that wouldn't complicate things.

As far as the comments about the drinking, it's all me. I have a very addicting type personality and tend to use alcohol frequently for various reasons. I can see that pursuing this thinking is only going to end up badly and I am best suited to keep the fantasies to her and move on.

Thanks for the advice.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by dgoody1234

I really appreciate the responses. I have to admit I thought I would read something like iapr's posts.

You are right that we are in no way ready to experience anything like swinging. The fact of the matter is that I push my wife because I have the fantasies and I use alcohol to loosen her up and have her say what I want -- obviously that is not totally healthy, or fair.

I don't want to ever share my wife with another man and am completely selfish, and will admit that I just want the freedom to do what I want to do -- I guess I am getting that itch for other women and want the permission to be with them. I guess I figure that if she came along for the experience then I could never be blamed for cheating. I thought the idea of an escort would be the best way because I could keep it all business and be with a professional that wouldn't complicate things.

As far as the comments about the drinking, it's all me. I have a very addicting type personality and tend to use alcohol frequently for various reasons. I can see that pursuing this thinking is only going to end up badly and I am best suited to keep the fantasies to her and move on.

Thanks for the advice.

Wow. I'm honestly surprised at your honesty. From your first post, I was thinking exactly what you said above. That you sounded very selfish and this was all about you.

You are abusing your wife by using alchohol to loosen her up. One day she'll get sober and get smart and leave your selfish ass, and then you can have all the sex with other women you want.

[TNT]

I'll second Julie's WOW...I don't believe in all the years on this board I've ever read a post where the man comes back, after asking basically "How do I get my wife into swinging? " and fully admits that the real reason he wants to get his wife to swing is so he can have other women and not feel like he's cheating but, he doesn't want her to ever have other men.



Teresa

[tighty]

i feel talking about it is more exciting and fullfilling and actully doing it.

* i like the journey so much.....i return everytime as i reach near the destination*

[Alura]

There are two things that tell me swinging would likely be a disaster for y'all.

Until she can communicate without getting angry and without holding out on the exchange of ideas, forget swinging.

Until you can understand the difference between "making love" and "having sex" for fun, forget swinging.

My only advice, if you still want to pursue the lifestyle, is to read the information on this board together and talk about it a lot!

Mr. Alura

[JustMrJ]

I can second ALL the above advice and add the following...

If you are jealous or possessive... you will FAIL as a swinger. If your wife is also jealous or possessive, same answer.

My wife and I love the fact that we can have sex with other people "play with other people". We get the excitement of the moment, the fun of relaying the story to each other later, try out new things we've experienced with others with each other. And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, we share the giving of unconditional TRUST!

If you don't have that kind of trust with yourself or your spouse you are doomed to fail not only the LifeStyle, but your relationship with your spouse.

Communication is key... SOBER communication. And it sounds like you both need a LOT of communication to get your relationship in order before you EVER explore things like this LifeStyle.

Good luck!

[IvoryTowers]

Originally Posted by dgoody1234

The fact of the matter is that I push my wife because I have the fantasies and I use alcohol to loosen her up and have her say what I want -- obviously that is not totally healthy, or fair.

I don't want to ever share my wife with another man and am completely selfish, and will admit that I just want the freedom to do what I want to do -- I guess I am getting that itch for other women and want the permission to be with them.

I have a very addicting type personality and tend to use alcohol frequently for various reasons.

This is deeply, deeply scary. Please get yourself into some therapy before you destroy your life or hurt your wife. You have an addictive personality, you use alcohol to manipulate your wife and you are admittedly "completely selfish"? Sounds like you are just a few steps away from being abusive.

Oh, and this whole "I want to sleep with other women but I'll never 'share' my wife"? Wow, I didn't realize your wife was your property. Here I thought in modern day America, spouses were considered people. Please, for the love of god, don't cheat on your wife because that would just mean making some other woman miserable as well. Disgusting.

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by dgoody1234

I really appreciate the responses. I have to admit I thought I would read something like iapr's posts.

You are right that we are in no way ready to experience anything like swinging. The fact of the matter is that I push my wife because I have the fantasies and I use alcohol to loosen her up and have her say what I want -- obviously that is not totally healthy, or fair.

I don't want to ever share my wife with another man and am completely selfish, and will admit that I just want the freedom to do what I want to do -- I guess I am getting that itch for other women and want the permission to be with them. I guess I figure that if she came along for the experience then I could never be blamed for cheating. I thought the idea of an escort would be the best way because I could keep it all business and be with a professional that wouldn't complicate things.

As far as the comments about the drinking, it's all me. I have a very addicting type personality and tend to use alcohol frequently for various reasons. I can see that pursuing this thinking is only going to end up badly and I am best suited to keep the fantasies to her and move on.

Thanks for the advice.

While I appreciate the honesty, I have to wonder what you plan to do about these issues now that you're aware of them? I'd recommend therapy for you and your wife . . . you both need to kick the alcohol addiction and work on your marriage. If not for your own sakes, definitely for your kids.

Best of luck to ya'll . . .