Still Just Thinking At This Point - Trying to decide of swinging is the right option

[JKlovers]

Hi! Sorry this got a little longer than I was expecting. We're new and just sort of looking for info at this point. Here's some background. My husband and I have been together for about 6 years, married for about 2 1/2 years. My sex life prior to meeting him was very innocent. I was a bit of a prude (closet freak my husband likes to say). My husband told me too quickly in the relationship about his wild past, and I felt like I didn't measure up. He had WAY more sexual partners than I had, and he also confessed that he was a bi-sexual and had had sex with men (as well as threesomes-MMF). Growing up in a fairly conservative family, I was a little stunned when he first told me this (we had been together for almost a year before he told me he was bi). I accepted it, and even found myself oddly turned on by it. No one knows about my husband's bi-sexuality. He has kept it a secret his entire life (his first sexual encounter was actually with one of his buddies when he was very young). I sort of get turned on by the fact that it's our dirty, little secret LOL!

So, anyways, we discovered pretty quickly that we weren't exactly very sexually compatible. I am very shy, and felt weird trying new things with my husband. I don't know why because I didn't have those problems with men that I casually dated before I met him, but I just felt really insecure with my husband because I love him so much and just always felt like he was way more advanced than I was. My husband has always been crazy about me, and would try everything in his power to get me to open up and not be such a prude but nothing worked (well except alcohol on occasion).

My husband started to distant himself with me for a while because I just wasn't showing him any affection. It wasn't that I didn't want too, but I was just shy, which is ridiculous considering he's my own husband! He even threatened to leave me a couple of times if I didn't change my ways because he said he was so tired of being rejected sexually (which is something he had never experienced prior to meeting me).

Then I got pregnant with our son and my husband suddenly had a newfound obsession. He was obsessed with how swollen my vagina would get because of the pregnancy, and wanted to have sex all the time. Prior to this our sex life was in the toilet, but being pregnant just completely re-charged everything! At first I was a little nervous. My husband started whipping out the camera while we were having sex and started taking pictures and videos of us having sex, as well as lots of close up pics. I'll admit at first I was just sort of going along with it, because I could tell that it made my husband very excited and happy and that made me happy. After a while I started to get into it too, and would even pose for him.

Our sex life has completely changed over the last year. We are VERY active, and have sex pretty much everyday except for that time of the month (and even then I have to beat my husband off of me with a stick because he's still willing). My husband has always been extremely sexually charged. If he's not having sex, then he is looking at porn, which doesn't bother me a bit. He even created an account for us on an amateur site and posted naked pictures of the two of us and they are actually very popular When we have sex I fantasize about me and him being with other people. I also fantasy about myself being with a woman even though i've never had any bi-sexual encounters.

My husband is on a business trip but we've been having phone sex at night and sending each other naughty pics on our Blackberry's. Last night we were up most of the night having phone sex and sharing dirty thoughts and fantasies with each other. My husband admitted in great detail that he would love to see me get pounded by another guy. I admitted to him that I would love to watch him go down on another woman and then have sex with her. We've said these kinds of things to each other in the past (okay, so i've only said them on a few occasions when I had too much to drink), but last night we got very detailed and it turned from just fantasy to "Do you really want to give this a try?" We were up all night talking about it and have both decided it would be worth looking into. I mean we both get off by imagining the other person having sex with another person in front of us. Doesn't that make us good candidates for swinging?

Of course I think about the negative stuff too like possibly bringing diseases into our relationship and jealousy. I can't say for certain that I wouldn't be jealous, and my husband admitted that he could possibly become jealous too. We really wont know until we try it. We both have a strong agreement that we would want to be in the same room with each other or we wouldn't want to do it at all. It's very important for us to do this as a couple, versus us acting on things individually. We also don't want to have a lot of contact with the couple after the fact (if any at all). Is that a realistic expectation?

One thing I should mention is that my husband was involved with an emotional affair and that just about killed me. It was the fact that he had this secret relationship with someone that I knew nothing about that hurt me the most. Since the emotional affair, i've been very paranoid and jealous, and just plain miserable. Since finding out about this lifestyle though I feel completely different. I know they say to never use the swingers lifestyle as a method to fix a bad marriage, but we really don't have a bad marriage. Our issues have always stemmed from me not being as sexually active as my husband, and him making some bad choices in the past. In all other areas we are fantastic together, and this past year even our sex life is fantastic. I guess I feel like if we do this together, maybe it will strengthen our relationship and in fact bond us closer together. I feel like if we are experiencing these sexual things together then it will lessen the chance of one of us wanting to do something outside of the marriage, like a secret affair. It just seems like there is so much lying and unhappiness that goes on in the typical marriage. I know so many people other than myself who have been devastated by some type of affair in their marriage. I don't really consider this cheating, which I know sounds crazy since we would be having sex with other people. Am I completely naive for thinking this way?

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by JKlovers

Am I completely naive for thinking this way?

No, not at all in my opinion.

Welcome to the Swingers Board

[ncmd_couple]

JKLovers,

Welcome to the board! The main thing is that the two of you are communicating your desires and your concerns.

S

[PB&J]

Wow.
I almost thought that this was us. Minus the bisexuality and online pics.

My sex life prior to meeting him was very innocent. I was a bit of a prude Yep

I felt like I didn't measure up. Yep

I am very shy, and felt weird trying new things with my husband. Yep

My husband started to distant himself with me for a while because I just wasn't showing him any affection. Yep

One thing I should mention is that my husband was involved with an emotional affair and that just about killed me Yep

We also don't want to have a lot of contact with the couple after the fact (if any at all). Is that a realistic expectation?
As a couple, make that decision if you want. There's lots of perfectly nice NSA (no strings attached) couples out there who feel the same way.

Am I completely naive for thinking this way?
Absolutely not!! Deciding to make this exploration together has changed our life and all for the good.

Although my MUCH more sexually experienced husband often says now "We've created a monster" when he sees how much I'm enjoying all that the lifestyle has to offer. (as in, I seem to get more action than him at a house party- and am LOVING it!!)

If you want it, go for it.

[bbarnsworth]

It's great that you're talking about it and fantasizing about it. Make sure you can talk about it in depth when outside of sex/fantasy. Communication is very, very key in the lifestyle. Talk talk talk talk and more talk. Then talk some more.

You're right; you can't know if you'll be jealous until you're in the situation. It happens to people sometimes. It hasn't happened with my wife and I, and I now seriously doubt it will, but it can and does happen to many couples. You can learn to manage it and focus it in appropriate directions.

You said your husband had an "emotional" affair. I presume this means it wasn't taken to a physical level? Just curious. It'd still be cheating in my or my wife's book, and I'm sorry you went through that.

Swinging will not fix anything in your marriage. It's not a tool to correct what is wrong. It can (and often does) have the effect of significantly improving what is already good in a marriage (communication being one example). But, it can't fix what is broken.

Swinging isn't cheating. That's something that vanilla (non-swinging) people tend not to understand. If all parties are consenting to whatever sex activities are happening, it's not cheating. I've never felt my wife cheated on me because she was enjoying pleasuring another man or being pleasured by another man, nor she with respect to me.

Cheating is a very dangerous thing for relationships. It causes great harm in large part because of the breaking of trust. Trust is an amazingly strong thing; it'll believe the most absurd things in the face of evidence otherwise. But, once broken, it's hard to bring back fully. It takes patience, communication, and time. My wife and I have never broken trust with each other, but we've both been in relationships before where trust was destroyed. Trying to rebuild it is hard. If you're in the same room enjoying another man and your husband is enjoying another woman, all with your consent and his as well, it's not cheating. No trust is being broken.

You're not naive. You're asking good questions, and doing a fine job of describing your thoughts. Keep it up! Keep asking any questions here you want to ask. We'll be happy to help!

[screaminggood]

Welcome to the Board. You're not naive, you're actually very intelligent and emotionally in tune with yourself and your husband.

Yes, you can have one-time encounters with other people (that's how we do it, too), but I will preface that we use on-premise clubs because it's easier to meet people who are ready to have a single encounter than on the internet.

But, I want to caution you to GO VERY SLOW. Consider it slow foreplay, if you like, but start out with something small. Go to a strip club and see if you like watching a dancer give the hubby a lap dance. There may be a small amount of jealousy but does the desire created by watching it overwhelmingly make the jealousy worth the effects? While there, buy your own lap dance and see if you enjoy the sensations of having a woman so close to you. If either or both responses, for both of you, are positive....my suggestion is that you start with the bi-encounters and the spouse watching. You aren't likely to get jealous of watching your man with another man, and you'll probably learn just how desirable you are to him if he watches you with another woman--I doubt he'll have jealousy issues there either. Again, take it one small step...and enjoy the slow, drawn-out foreplay of keeping it in control. Talk about it before and afterward---and never do anything that you don't feel ready for!

[JKlovers]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

You said your husband had an "emotional" affair. I presume this means it wasn't taken to a physical level? Just curious. It'd still be cheating in my or my wife's book, and I'm sorry you went through that.

Yes, he was spending a lot of time with a female that he had hired to replace me during my pregnancy (we are photographers). After my pregnancy, I assumed that they were no longer talking to each other since there really was no reason for them to be talking anymore. I found out that they were spending time alone in between classes (they also went to the same college), and that they were texting each other and talking on the phone a lot when I wasn't around.

Throughout all of this my husband was telling me that he wasn't talking to her, but he was. I found out about it (through our cell phone records), and was absolutely crushed. It put a big strain on our relationship because of the broken trust. My husband apologized, and knew he had screwed up. He ended all contact with her, and I haven't found any evidence to suggest that they are still talking to each other. He swears up and down that they were just friends and that nothing physical ever happened. This all happened several months ago.

Do I believe him? Sometimes. I'm still not completely convinced. I think they say over 60% of marriages will experience infidelity at some point. Does my husband still love me and want to be with me? Yes. Does he know that he messed up big time and ruined my trust? Yes.

You would think that after something like this I would want nothing to do with the lifestyle, but like I mentioned earlier, I think of this as something completely different. I feel like this is something we can do together. There is no deception or lying involved. I'm not doing it simply to prevent him from cheating, because let's face it, if someone really wants to cheat, then they will. I do feel like I married someone who will never be happy only having sex with one person for the rest of their life. His whole life has centered around sex, and it's super important to him. He has opened my eyes to a whole other life or way of thinking though. I always had a bad impression of sex growing up. I thought it was something sort of bad, and unpleasant. I don't feel that way anymore

I guess we both just feel ready to try something new. We've been taking lots of pictures and videos and posting them online, and that's been really exciting. We get really turned on when people post comments about wanting to have sex with us. My husband posts comments on other women's pictures about things he wants to do to them, and instead of getting jealous, I find it a turn on, which is another reason I feel this is something worth trying. Most women would probably flip hearing their husband talk about how badly they want to screw another woman, but I get extremely aroused by this, and I have a hard time even having an orgasm, without thinking of one or both of us having some type of sexual contact with someone else. Is that weird? I feel almost guilty about this sometimes because my husband is extremely attractive, and he's very sexy (and very well hung), so there is absolutely nothing wrong with him physically. Most women would probably chew off their right arm to sleep with him so why do I think about other men or women when we are having sex?

Anyways, I really appreciate everyone who responded. I could never talk about this stuff with my friends. They would literally look at me like I lost my mind!

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by JKlovers

Yes, he was spending a lot of time with a female that he had hired to replace me during my pregnancy (we are photographers). [...] This all happened several months ago. [...] Does he know that he messed up big time and ruined my trust? Yes.

I'm really, really sorry you went through that. The breaking of trust is so painful, and so hard to restore.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

You would think that after something like this I would want nothing to do with the lifestyle, but like I mentioned earlier, I think of this as something completely different.

This is a very healthy attitude, and you are completely correct. Cheating and swinging are completely different. In some ways, they are polar opposites. Cheating is depriving you, hurting you. Swinging is adding to you, pleasing you.

Trust is a very important factor in most couples I'm aware of in the lifestyle. Part of trust is taking a leap of faith. It's hard to take that leap of faith when it's been abused in the past. But, getting trust back eventually requires a leap of faith to remove the final inhibitions to complete trust again.

At some point, you just have to trust again. Without trust, your own imagination can cause great damage, even if your husband hasn't done a single thing wrong.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

I feel like this is something we can do together. There is no deception or lying involved. I'm not doing it simply to prevent him from cheating, because let's face it, if someone really wants to cheat, then they will. I do feel like I married someone who will never be happy only having sex with one person for the rest of their life. His whole life has centered around sex, and it's super important to him. He has opened my eyes to a whole other life or way of thinking though. I always had a bad impression of sex growing up. I thought it was something sort of bad, and unpleasant. I don't feel that way anymore

GOOD! Society often pushes us to think that sex is to be avoided, it's bad, doing it out of marriage is sinful, dangerous, even deadly. For women, it's often taught that you should do it for your husband, but you won't get much out of it. It's very, very sad...and UTTERLY WRONG. De-program.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

I guess we both just feel ready to try something new. We've been taking lots of pictures and videos and posting them online, and that's been really exciting. We get really turned on when people post comments about wanting to have sex with us.

This should erase one concern I've seen many have; self image. If people are messaging you that they'd love to have sex with you, you shouldn't have any reason to have a poor self image My wife finds it very erotic that other men want to have sex with her. She's beautiful, but some people find it hard to see their own beauty.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

My husband posts comments on other women's pictures about things he wants to do to them, and instead of getting jealous, I find it a turn on, which is another reason I feel this is something worth trying. Most women would probably flip hearing their husband talk about how badly they want to screw another woman, but I get extremely aroused by this, and I have a hard time even having an orgasm, without thinking of one or both of us having some type of sexual contact with someone else.

This is a very positive sign as to what your own reaction will be when fantasy becomes reality!

Yes, most women probably would flip hearing this. Same goes for men in the other direction. Swinging isn't for everyone. For those with stable, strong, communicative relationships who are not overly jealous by nature, it might be worth a shot since it is so much fun and usually has a positive effect on marriages (marriages that are good to begin with, that is).

Originally Posted by JKlovers

Is that weird? I feel almost guilty about this sometimes because my husband is extremely attractive, and he's very sexy (and very well hung), so there is absolutely nothing wrong with him physically. Most women would probably chew off their right arm to sleep with him so why do I think about other men or women when we are having sex?

There's a common devil's advocate position that's very close to this. "If my sex at home with my spouse is so good, if my relationship is so wonderful, why in heck would I consider having sex with someone else even if my spouse consents? Why do it?"

There's many answers to this. Life isn't a dress rehearsal. You only get one shot at it. If this is something that is appealing to you, turns you on, and is something you want to have happen, only you two get to decide if it will happen. To heck with anyone else's rules on what "good girls" are supposed to do (they're wrong). It's fun. Heck, it's a LOT of fun. Just because your husband has a great body, is a great lover, is perfect, etc. doesn't mean you can't take (and want!) sexual pleasure from other people. It's kinda of the old analogy on the lifestyle, vanilla or lots of flavors. Vanilla ice cream can be fantastic. But, if all you ever had was vanilla ice cream eventually you begin to wonder what black raspberry tastes like, or chocolate raspberry, etc. And that's ok so long as both of you are consenting partners in this. There's many more answers, but those are a few.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

Anyways, I really appreciate everyone who responded. I could never talk about this stuff with my friends. They would literally look at me like I lost my mind!

You have lost your mind. Let's hope you keep losing it over and over again

[JKlovers]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

You have lost your mind. Let's hope you keep losing it over and over again

I love it! That's too funny!

So hubby and I have been talking a lot on the phone about this and it's definitely something we are both very interested in. We're thinking that we would like to start off in a threesome situation because I haven't ever been with a woman before and I think it would be easier to do this with just the 3 of us.

I have also never witnessed my hubby with another man so I'm thinking we should probably have that experience in a very private setting as well. I think about it a lot, but I'm sure it's going to be a little weird to actually watch him in action with another man

I did think of another couple of questions or concerns though. How hard is it to be in this lifestyle when you have young kids still living at home? We're barely in our 30's and our youngest child is not even a year old yet. I do not think we're going to have much time to devote to this at all and it will most likely be a rare event. Plus, my hubby travels a lot and is gone for several weeks at a time. I do NOT want to chance bringing anyone over to our home. I am just not comfortable with that. My hubby doesn't think it's that big of a deal as long as the kids are asleep (I told him no way!) I wonder if that is going to hinder us finding other people or couples, if we can only meet at their place or a hotel?

My husband's main concern is that i'm going to get sucked into the lifestyle (funny with my prudish past and his addictive behavior he's worried about me, lol) and want to do this all the time. He said he was a little surprised at how quickly i've jumped on this, and that he was a little concerned that I was already spending so much time researching it. He said that was not like me to be so into something like this, and he worries that I will become addicted. I worry about the same thing, that once we do this, he will want or expect this all the time. He says that would never happen and that i'm enough for him. Realistically given our busy lives, and having so many young children at home, we wouldn't be able to do this all the time anyways, so I'm not too worried about that happening. I think we would be lucky to engage in something like this once or twice a year because we really dont get out much.

So, we both still have our concerns and will definitely talk more when he gets home next week. I am thinking I would like to start with a soft swap with another man or woman (I honestly don't really care which). My hubby is okay with that and is looking forward to it. Maybe I am a little too anxious, but I can't help it. Since hubby and I started talking seriously about it, I find myself thinking about it all the time (with a big grin on my face). It can't be that bad, if I feel this good about it, right? I'm hoping so, lol!

[ncmd_couple]

JKLovers,

I'm glad to hear that you are doing your research and learning from what you read here at the board. I'm also glad to hear that you and your hubby are talking. That is very good!

I think that with most couples when you first experience swinging you devote a lot of time to it. After a while, you don't devote as much just because life gets in the way. As you two have kids living at home, it will be a challenge. As for others being turned off by you not being able to host, that is not a problem. Most people want to meet on neutral ground, at a club then if everything clicks going to a hotel. Just do what you feel the two of you are comfortable with.

You will probably have a lot more luck finding couples and single males. They call single females unicorns for a reason! But they are out there for girl/girl play if you look. But don't be disapointed if you don't have much luck. You might have better luck with finding a couple who the lady will play with you alone or with the guys watching.

Good luck!

S

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by JKlovers

I did think of another couple of questions or concerns though. How hard is it to be in this lifestyle when you have young kids still living at home?

Plenty of couples (us included) in the lifestyle have young ones at home. You do know God made babysitters so the parents could go to swing clubs, yes?

Originally Posted by JKlovers

I do NOT want to chance bringing anyone over to our home. I am just not comfortable with that. My hubby doesn't think it's that big of a deal as long as the kids are asleep (I told him no way!) I wonder if that is going to hinder us finding other people or couples, if we can only meet at their place or a hotel?

I'm with you. My wife and I agreed that we will not be entertaining new couples at home. Maybe after several encounters with a given couple, we might allow them into that inner circle. But otherwise? No way. Also, we will NOT involve our kids. If we entertain at home, there will be no 'play' at home, just a friends visit. Everything I've read on this forum has strongly indicated that most couples would find the notion of playing at a host's house with the kids asleep is a red flag, and for many a deal breaker.

Also, with your husband gone for weeks at a time, I think you'll feel more comfortable knowing you can keep lifestyle contacts at arm's length if need be.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

My husband's main concern is that i'm going to get sucked into the lifestyle (funny with my prudish past and his addictive behavior he's worried about me, lol) and want to do this all the time. He said he was a little surprised at how quickly i've jumped on this, and that he was a little concerned that I was already spending so much time researching it. He said that was not like me to be so into something like this, and he worries that I will become addicted. I worry about the same thing, that once we do this, he will want or expect this all the time.

There's a vanilla term for this. NRE. New Relationship Euphoria. You're on first contact basis right now with the lifestyle. Your head is full of questions, ideas, fantasies, what if scenarios, emotions and more. This is natural. I don't think it's any indication that you're going to become addicted to wanting new men every other night or anything like that

Originally Posted by JKlovers

I think we would be lucky to engage in something like this once or twice a year because we really dont get out much.

My wife and I struggle with this too. Right now, it's about once a month that we get to go on a date, whether to meet and greet or to actually play. That's with us pushing as hard as possible to line up a babysitter that will work in the time frames we need. It's hard.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

Since hubby and I started talking seriously about it, I find myself thinking about it all the time (with a big grin on my face). It can't be that bad, if I feel this good about it, right? I'm hoping so, lol!

Talking is all good, and keep it up. Ask all sorts of questions, in all areas. Don't forget to discuss protection (disease, pregnancy) and where your comfort lies within that. Learn what your limits are, as well as his.

I'm not seeing red flags, with the exception of his cheating on you fairly recently in the past. My wife and I talked about this last night, and she thinks you two sound great (too bad you're a left coaster), but she would be reluctant to play with you with the cheating being relatively recent.

On the cheating...as I mentioned before, at some point you have to take the leap of faith that he's always telling you the truth again. If you've decided (and you obviously have) to continue the marriage, it isn't fair to you, him, your kids, or the relationship to hold this against him indefinitely. Trust can be hard; it's more of an emotion than anything, but you have to give it to him again for your relationship to be healthy. Don't let your belief be just sometimes. It's very troublesome that he lied about the contact with the other woman, but it's very positive that he broke contact and admitted his error.

Get the cheating in the past. Reaffirm your trust in him. Then swing.

Oh, and I agree with ncmd_couple. Good luck finding your unicorn You'll have much better luck finding single men and couples.

[JKlovers]

Thanks again for all the advice and help. This board has been so informative and helpful.

My hubby and I talked some more last night on the phone and are now thinking it would be easier to start with another couple. This would make it more "even" so to speak.

My hubby has some experience in this area from before we met so he is a little more set about his rules and what he wants. In the past when he would meet couples or would meet other men for sex, he had a rule that they had to be older than him. He's always preferred older partners. He says if we did this, he would want it to be a happily married, mature couple so there is less chance of drama or problems. My husband had positive experiences with this is the past where he was the guest and was joining older, married couples. He has never had a FMF or a couple swap so he's excited to get to try something new. His experiences were always with couples where the husband was bi and he would basically take turns with the wife and the husband.

My number one fear even more than jealousy is disease. I'm a bit of a hypochondriac so the thought of getting a STD or God forbid HIV is a real threat in my mind. I know the chances or risks are no less than if my husband were to go out and have an affair and bring something home to me, but I still worry. We have very young children at home and I want to be healthy and strong for them. I would feel so guilty if one or both of us contracted a deadly or painful disease (even something like herpes would be extremely devastating).

My hubby is not as paranoid as me, so he doesn't worry about this stuff like I do. This I think will be one of our biggest, if not the biggest hurdle to overcome. It could most definitely be a deal breaker for me. My hubby doesn't like condoms. I think he wore a condom once the first time we ever had sex, and then refused to wear them after that. Even when he had his bi and threesome encounters in the past, he rarely wore a condom (which I told him when I found out how risky and dangerous that was). My husband has always lived life on the edge, so he just doesn't worry about that kind of stuff. Of course we've both been tested several times for all STD's and diseases and we are clean. His casual sex encounters were before he met me, and as far as I know, he has not engaged in anything like that since we've been together.

My husband gets very turned on by the actual act of seeing someone cum, so his fantasy is getting to cum in another woman or seeing a man cum in me. Needless to say a condom would pretty much take away from that experience. I would feel better using condoms or not having a man cum in me, and not having my husband cum inside someone else. My husband tried to reassure me last night by saying if we met the right older couple, who had been sterilized, and were clean, that I would feel differently and would be okay. I'm not so sure. Again, I see this as a big obstacle.

[screaminggood]

The lack of condoms will create an obstacle, especially for a bi-male couple like yourselves. There are some that will go bareback but the numbers will decrease with the concerns about a bi-male and HIV.

I"m not telling you not to go for it, I'm just telling you that I agree that it's going to be another obstacle.

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by JKlovers

Thanks again for all the advice and help. This board has been so informative and helpful.

Just a small word of caution. I'm doing a lot of the responding here, but please don't take my word as gospel. I'm just one person of many, and I'm not an expert on anything related to this lifestyle. Well, my wife would disagree vis-a-vis oral but I digress. Happy to pass on whatever advice I can give.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

My hubby and I talked some more last night on the phone and are now thinking it would be easier to start with another couple. This would make it more "even" so to speak.

There's a number of good reasons to play with just couples or primarily so. It's all up to your comfort levels. One of the reasons relates to disease. More in a sec...

Originally Posted by JKlovers

My number one fear even more than jealousy is disease. I'm a bit of a hypochondriac so the thought of getting a STD or God forbid HIV is a real threat in my mind. I know the chances or risks are no less than if my husband were to go out and have an affair and bring something home to me, but I still worry.

Wrong. What studies have been done show that the prevalence of STDs is LESS among swinging couples than the general population. Reason; couples in the lifestyle are generally stable, long term, mature relationships. They don't cheat, sleep around, etc. with random people. Prior to entering the lifestyle, they were probably with each other a long while. Long term monogamous relationships are for the most part disease free. Then the couple swings..

If you have an apple that is free of worms, it isn't somehow going to get worms by sitting in a bowl with twenty other worm free apples. If there's no disease coming into the swinging from the couples entering it, there's no disease being spread. You could have ten million couples and if they are all disease free they are not magically going to come down with Herpes.

Swinging with singles can be different. This is another reason why my wife and I are reluctant to swing with singles. We've no idea who/what they are sleeping with.

Tangential; there was an overseas US naval base that was having serious problems with STDs among its sailors and visiting sailors. After trying many methods to reduce the incidence rate, their solution (which worked very well) was to offer free medical exams and disease free certification cards to the working girls. They could come as often as they liked for new certification. Any horny sailor could ask to see their card to prove they were disease free. STDs dropped off dramatically.

It's now how many people you have sex with. It's how many people that are not disease free you come in contact with. In the lifestyle, disease is less common than among the general population.

Originally Posted by JKlovers

We have very young children at home and I want to be healthy and strong for them. I would feel so guilty if one or both of us contracted a deadly or painful disease (even something like herpes would be extremely devastating).

I love that you think of your children with respects to risks in the lifestyle. Bravo!

Originally Posted by JKlovers

My hubby is not as paranoid as me, so he doesn't worry about this stuff like I do. [...] My husband tried to reassure me last night by saying if we met the right older couple, who had been sterilized, and were clean, that I would feel differently and would be okay. I'm not so sure. Again, I see this as a big obstacle.

My wife and I agreed that we will play by the set of rules that are most restrictive between the two of us. If either of us does not want to play by those rules, we don't play until we agree on the rules we will play under. Our rules have changed over time, but this rule hasn't.

You might become comfortable with barebacking every time you swing. Until you do, your husband should (in my opinion) acquiesce to your concerns and play using condoms and vice versa.

From an erotic stand point, I would MUCH rather my wife had sex with men who were not wearing condoms. It's more pleasurable for her, for him (and thus for her), and easier in some ways. I would much rather be able to go back and forth from my wife to the other woman and vice versa without having to worry about condoms. Sex feels a lot better without a condom. It also feels much better to ejaculate without a condom (sense of release is greater) than with one. I don't like them anymore than the next guy. You probably prefer a naked penis too. From this stand point, it's far better to go bareback.

From many other stand points, this is a non-starter for me.

One; pregnancy. Sterilization is, contrary to commonly held belief, not a fail-safe method of contraception. Have a look at Comparison of birth control methods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Note vasectomy and tubal ligation typical use failure rate. One in two hundred women with tubal ligation will get pregnant during a typical year of sex. One in 665 men with vasectomies will impregnate a woman during a typical year of sex. Feel lucky? The only fail safe methods of birth control are castration, hysterectomy, and abstinence. For my wife and I, we insist on having two forms of birth control that we are in control of, such that we don't have to place this absolute trust in another couple to control pregnancy. The only way this can happen for a man is to have a vasectomy and use condoms. Using both forms, the chances are 1 in 4,444.

Two; disease. Yes, you can get STDs without a man ejaculating in you. Condom usage doesn't insure against all STDs. But condom usage does have a significant impact. Have a look at this site: SFCC :: STD Basics : STD Risks Chart. That's not meant to scare you, but there are realities here. That said, the risk of STDs is still greatly reduced with condom usage.

You can get serious illnesses from shaking hands with other people. We undertake risky disease behaviors all the time in our daily lives. One of the most dangerous virus/bacteria transmission zones are handles on grocery carts. That's why some grocery stores are now posting antiseptic wipe dispensers near their cart corrals. The CDC urges people to get flu shots every year. They estimate 260 million people in the U.S. should get one each year. Reality? Far less. Flu can be very serious. Condom usage doesn't reduce flu transmission, nor does not having sex. One of the best anti-disease things you can do is bathe and wash your hands.

Three; intimacy. This just applies to my wife and I, but barebacking is something we reserve for ourselves. Only I get to ejaculate in my wife and actually leave it there. She very much enjoys this as much as I do, and we reserve that for each other. There are other things we reserve for only each other as well (for example anal sex, among other things). It is possible that if we were with a particular couple for quite some time, and knew they were monogamous with us, that we would consider barebacking with them if we had absolute trust in them regarding their sterilization status. But in general swinging (what we are doing now), no way.

Four; quite a number of couples won't play with you if you don't use condoms. Very few couples won't play with you if you refuse to not use condoms. So, we up our odds by playing with condoms. We're in this (among other reasons) to have lots of fun sex. It can be hard enough to find the right chemistry with another couple, much less make the set up have to jump through more hoops (you must go bareback, your wife has to be sterilized, etc...etc..). Take a look at this poll: Poll: Are You Willing to go Bareback?

My wife and I, in our progression towards swinging, paused for quite a while on the disease aspect. After lots of research, we got past that. We paused on pregnancy too, but got past that relatively quickly (the research was easier).

Hope that all helps. Keep staying out of your mind and keep asking questions!

[JKlovers]

Well I guess its good to keep talking as you all say because last night on the phone my husband freaked out and said he is concerned that I really wanted to go through with this, and is having second thoughts.

I know he still wants to do it, but I think he's now having some jealousy issues as far as myself goes. I think he's feeling like he really wants to do it, but is worried why I want to do it so much. He made a comment about how i'm getting to be too much for him, and that he isn't sure he can handle me anymore

So, we talked a lot more, but at this point we aren't ready to do anything. I marked our Swing Lifestyle account for deletion and it looks like we'll just stay "vanilla" as I hear being mentioned.

Thanks for all the advice and helpful info. I've enjoyed meeting all of you. I guess the timing is just not right. I think my husband is feeling a bit insecure as well since he has been gone for over a month traveling. This traveling stuff is new to us and he's only been traveling for the last couple of months. It's been a big change in our relationship having him gone so much. I think that definitely adds to his discomfort about my new excitement over the lifestyle. Perhaps he's paranoid that I would be doing things while he is away? I really don't know. We both agreed it's still something we're interested in for the future, but I don't see it happening anytime soon

So, goodbye and good luck to everyone. Take care