I just want to understand

[emily1]

I've just created this account and I'm posting here because I'm still in tears after an argument with my boyfriend and I really want to understand him because I care about him but I'm not the swinger type, AT ALL! yet he keeps telling me things about sex with other people that make me really sad.

We've been together for a few months and we've had good sex and recently he's made me come so hard I thought it was the best sex of my life. But I'll never ever do anal, or threesomes no matter what (or lesbian, it's disgusting to me), and I know he'd like to do those, or have sex in weird places like on the plane, which I won't like but he said it'd be memorable.

Anyways, I know he's really into me because he tells me how hot I am all the time, he takes pictures of me and buys me gifts and takes me places and is really nice and affectionate to me, and he never cheated on anyone and he's an emotionally monogamous man, and I have no doubt about any of these. But he tells me that men can have just sex without it meaning more than, say a wrestling match with someone else!! Or that it would turn him on a lot to watch me being penetrated by another guy. Or that if some crazy hypothetical opportunity appeared where he was alone on a trip and he could have an anal threesome with two nymphos on the plane, I should let him do it because he'll appreciate me a whole lot more because only very very few women would understand that.

I don't get that!!! I can' have sex with a man unless I genuinely like him and I'm interested in pursuing a relationship with him!! How can my BF say he can have "just sex"?? And he goes on and tells me that the rational thing to do (I'm a rational woman and I'm proud of it, and he knows it) is to let him do the crazy plane threesome thing because if he doesn't do it, then I don't gain anything, he doesn't gain anything, but may resent me for forbidding him from doing it, while if I let him, he'll get an experience he couldn't get with me (anal, threeesome and I guess plane too), maybe learn a few tricks to please me when he returns, it would be a one-time thing, he'd never see any of those women again, and he'll cherish me a lot more for understanding. So I told him, it's your choice, I'm not forbidding you from doing it, but if you do it, I'll break up with you.

He told me that's irrational and emotional blackmail, but I don't think it is!! I just value monogamy, and that's it. I don't want to have a relationship where my partner has sex with other people, and I don't get it when he says that he's OK if I fuck some hot guy, but he'll be hurt if I make love to that guy or if I'm just affectionate to him. He even said he was jealous that I was much more affectionate to my cat than to him (but I've had that cat since I was a kid). Anyway how can he be OK with me having sex with someone else?? I'M NOT OK WITH HIM FUCKING SOME OTHER WOMAN!!! Ever since before my first relationship I've been having huge issues with cheating!!

And I also don't get this swinging thing he told me about, that people just have sex outside their marriage so I decided to look up a forum on the Internet and post here. Please tell me, what am I doing irrationally, and how is it emotional blackmail if I choose to break up with him if he fucks someone else??

Sobbing,
Emily

[BiloxiCouple]

Stick to your guns and do what is RIGHT for you.

If he is doing this in the start of your relationship and you don't agree with it and he still wants it, it probably won't get any better.

You only have a few months invested. Might be time to cut your losses and run? That is a question only you can answer.

If he is accusing you of emotional blackmail, then he has the problem in this situation. If you want a monogamous relationship then you need to find a man who wants that too. It will help you with the issues he is putting on you now.

[bryanlee]

First of all, Welcome to the forum. I hope you find all the answers you are looking for.

Here are my thoughts:

You guys are obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum on this subject. I commend you for even coming here with the intent to better understand where he is coming from.

From what you have written it sounds like your b/f is trying to push you way too hard into this. This is something that is most certainly not for everyone. For some people it has taken years of communication and an immense amount of trust and mutual respect to make this lifestyle work. For my g/f and I this is an experience that we share together. It is not about one of us being able to do whatever we want with random people. We are both very loyal, trusting and committed to one another. If at any time either of us decided we didn't want to participate in this lifestyle then that would be it and it would require no explanation from either of us. The fact that he is saying that he may resent you just because you don't consent to him sleeping around is ridiculous and if it were me i would consider what kind of relationship i had with him.

I think his fantasies are perfectly normal, but the way he is approaching you about them is all wrong. There are lots of men who would love to see their significant other with another man/men. Your fantasies don't make you a bad person nor do they indicate that their is anything wrong or missing in your relationship. They are simply fantasies. Some are better left as just that. I have lots of fantasies, but i would never put them above my relationship or hurt the one i love because of one of my fantasies.

It is definitely possible for people to just have sex without involving emotion to some degree. Some are better at it than others. There is nothing wrong with the idea of caring for someone and wanting a relationship before engaging in sex. If your b/f attempts to make you feel bad for that then he is just an ass.

I think he is being incredibly insensitive about the whole thing. It seems as if he is trying to guilt you into doing this and that is not what it's all about. My suggestion is not to argue with him about this. Tell him how you feel about these things and if he can't respect your feelings and opinions then you should think about what kind of a b/f he is.

I encourage you to read through the forum and learn as much as you can. I hope what i wrote made a little sense to you. If you have any other questions feel free to post them. There are a lot of great people here on this forum.

Good Luck, Bryan

[JTcamp05]

well apparently you can have sex with out emotional attachment......the reason I say this is if he discounts your feelings the way you say he is.... your emotional attachment to him is "only a state of mind" and unrealistic.....

Its OK not to be a swinger or participate in this lifestyle...its not for everyone thats for sure..... besides it takes very commited people to make it work..... that is something that you two will most likely never be!

Trust in what you feel you will be much happier in the long run....

[VANudistcpl]

It sounds like he is trying to get you to do something that you would not do. Before the Mrs and I started we discussed swinging, threesomes and couples for several years. Just recently we attended her first club. If your b/f really cares about you he would be willing to listen to you and be understanding of your position.

You have taken a big step in visiting the Board and searching for answers to understand your b/f. However, take your time in deciding anything and don't do anything you are not comfortable with.

VANudistcpl

[Alura]

from Oklahoma, Emily. You've come to the right place to gain an understanding of swinging. The wonderful folks on this board will be kind and eager to help. They will, however, tell it like it is.

Personally, I think y'all are too opposed in your attitudes toward sex to ever have a successful relationship. It's often been said that women marry hoping their husbands will change, but they don't. Men marry hoping his wife will not change, but she does. But that's not the worst problem I see here.

The saddest ingredient in your relationship seems to be your boyfriend's attempts to emotionally blackmail you. His attitude would kill a relationship with any woman. It seems not to matter to him if he makes you unhappy in his attempts to get his way.

Here's my suggestion to you. Break up with this guy. Buy an old Porsche and join the Porsche club. There you will meet men who are educated, successful, and usually have an ability to communicate. It's as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one.

In your next relationship, stress learning to communicate so that you can ask any question of each other without fear of reprisals.

Mr. Alura

[JustAskJulie]

The one committing emotional blackmail here is him. He's trying to take advantage of your rational nature by rationalizing something that probably would never happen anyway (an anal threesome on a plane?!).

First off, I would never advise a couple jump into swinging this early in a relationship unless they were both previously involved in before. Second, as others have pointed you guys are way too far apart on this.

Can people have sex without emotional attachment? Absolutely. But not everyone can do this. For some it takes a lot of time to learn how to seperate the two things. Most of us are raised that they go together, and YES, it is easier for guys than for women, but women can (and do) do it. It's one issue I've never had a problem with personally.

It says a lot about you and about how much you care for him that you went looking for information on this topic and are trying to understand where he may be coming from. One thing you won't find here is people trying to convince you that you are wrong in how you feel/think. Swinging is something that each person has to decide if it is right for them.

[SecretAsianMan]

I can certainly sympathize with you and commend you on your willingness to talk and understand his point of view.

This lifestyle certainly isn't for everyone. Not everyone is "wired" to be able to separate the act of sex from the emotional connection they feel with people. And that's alright.

You're a monogamous person - which is great for you.

If he really feels that he NEEDS to be with someone that he can swing with and share with others... then you're not the right person for him. Because if he feels this way and suppresses these desires - he'll eventually resent you for asking him to change.

The same holds true for you & your needs - stick to your guns and don't change because he wants you to. You're not interested and will not move from this stance... that's great. Now just convince your boyfriend of this.

[2inSanDiego4u]

Originally Posted by bryanlee

You guys are obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum on this subject. I commend you for even coming here with the intent to better understand where he is coming from.

We agree - this sounds like another case of a sexual mismatch. She's fairly conservative and he wants to explore this alternative lifestyle. His wants, desires and fantasies far exceed hers, to the point that she is disgusted by what he wants and has told her about.

While his fantasies and desires are not exactly conventional, keep in mind that you are on a swinger's forum and that most of us do not lead conventional lifestyles. We can relate to what he wants to do, and why as well. The emotional abuse that might be happening is not good. Clearly this is something he really wants, but is going about it the wrong way. This is a relatively new relationship, if you feel that this is something you really can never do, then maybe you should move on and let him find someone he will be compatible with, and happy as well.

EDIT: As far as trying to understand swinging and alternative lifestyles in general, the fact is that most people are simply not capable of understanding it. You either get it, or you don't. For those of us who do get it, we enjoy it, embrace it and live life to the fullest! We wish you the best and hope everything works out for you!

[two42lovers]

recently he's made me come so hard I thought it was the best sex of my life... [snip] ...I just value monogamy, and that's it. I don't want to have a relationship where my partner has sex with other people

Like the old song says, "Did you ever have to finally decide, say yes to one, and let the other one ride?" Your boyfriend is a package, just like you are. The fact he can give you the best sex of your life is not seperate from his desire to swing. (In fact it is likely completely intertwined with it.) You've said you don't want a relationship that includes swinging. Sounds like you have made your choice. It may mean you find a better sexual partner, or it may be you will never have such good sex again for the rest of your life - only way to find out is to roll the dice. One way to go would be to try lots of different guys - one at a time (serial monogamy) - until you find a guy who you think does it for you. Good luck!

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by emily1

...I know he's really into me because he tells me how hot I am all the time, he takes pictures of me and buys me gifts and takes me places and is really nice and affectionate to me, and he never cheated on anyone and he's an emotionally monogamous man, and I have no doubt about any of these.

Hi Emily ~

Welcome to the Board!

There is far more to a good match than having a guy who thinks you're hot, takes pictures of you, buys you gifts...and gives you the "best sex in your life" (at this point).

Your relationship is very new and I think you're discovering the match isn't all that good and it's a good thing you're discovering this and have come here to talk about SEX and all this swinging stuff your boyfriend is pushing you to do.

From what you've said, I think your boyfriend is giving no consideration to you and is thinking only of himself. Not a good sign. I also doubt he even knows how he would react to seeing you involved sexually with others. He sounds like he's living in sexual overdrive and hasn't yet realized what loving someone is about, how sharing yourself with someone CAN become an emotional experience.

You say he's an "emotionally monogamous man" but that word emotionally does leave the door open for him to find a way to have sex with other woman and say, it was only sex Emily, no emotion was involved. You would be very hurt discovering that he may have/or will have sex with others without telling you.

This may be the end of your relationship with him, but not the end of life. Remain true to yourself and don't give in. You're not ready to swing, and you may never be ready to swing. Swinging isn't for everyone.

LM

[Chicup]

We've been together for a few months and we've had good sex and recently he's made me come so hard I thought it was the best sex of my life. But I'll never ever do anal, or threesomes no matter what (or lesbian, it's disgusting to me), and I know he'd like to do those, or have sex in weird places like on the plane, which I won't like but he said it'd be memorable.

Red flag number one. You have only been together for a few months. Most couples have been together for years before they start to swing. There are exceptions to this, but not all that many. If you don't love each other yet, then it is just about the sex.

Anyways, I know he's really into me because he tells me how hot I am all the time, he takes pictures of me and buys me gifts and takes me places and is really nice and affectionate to me, and he never cheated on anyone and he's an emotionally monogamous man, and I have no doubt about any of these. But he tells me that men can have just sex without it meaning more than, say a wrestling match with someone else!! Or that it would turn him on a lot to watch me being penetrated by another guy. Or that if some crazy hypothetical opportunity appeared where he was alone on a trip and he could have an anal threesome with two nymphos on the plane, I should let him do it because he'll appreciate me a whole lot more because only very very few women would understand that.

Red flag number 2. Well him being into you is great, but for a guy who says he can just have sex, how do you know hes just not playing a game with you? I'm not saying he is but as you said you have only been together for a few months and hes talking about how its ok to have an anal threesome on a plane with 2 strangers?

I don't get that!!! I can' have sex with a man unless I genuinely like him and I'm interested in pursuing a relationship with him!! How can my BF say he can have "just sex"??

Have you ever tried to just have sex? Odds are you can, but you are too young and wrapped up in it right now. It doesn't matter if some day you could just have sex though, what matters is now. As for your BF saying he can just have sex, I can just have sex, and I've been with the same woman for almost 20 years. My relationship, and our love is not based around sex.

And he goes on and tells me that the rational thing to do (I'm a rational woman and I'm proud of it, and he knows it) is to let him do the crazy plane threesome thing because if he doesn't do it, then I don't gain anything, he doesn't gain anything, but may resent me for forbidding him from doing it, while if I let him, he'll get an experience he couldn't get with me (anal, threeesome and I guess plane too), maybe learn a few tricks to please me when he returns, it would be a one-time thing, he'd never see any of those women again, and he'll cherish me a lot more for understanding. So I told him, it's your choice, I'm not forbidding you from doing it, but if you do it, I'll break up with you.

Rational arguments are not the only ones involved. My wife and I have been swinging off and on for years, and I frequently have sex with another woman, but she still doesn't feel comfortable with me having sex with that same woman alone. Its not rational, but its where she is comfortable and thats all that matters.

He told me that's irrational and emotional blackmail, but I don't think it is!! I just value monogamy, and that's it. I don't want to have a relationship where my partner has sex with other people, and I don't get it when he says that he's OK if I fuck some hot guy, but he'll be hurt if I make love to that guy or if I'm just affectionate to him. He even said he was jealous that I was much more affectionate to my cat than to him (but I've had that cat since I was a kid). Anyway how can he be OK with me having sex with someone else?? I'M NOT OK WITH HIM FUCKING SOME OTHER WOMAN!!! Ever since before my first relationship I've been having huge issues with cheating!!

It is irrational but thats what love is in the first place, it is not emotional blackmail and in fact I think he is guilty of that. He is saying that cheating is an emotional thing not a physical thing. Hes not completely wrong but to most swingers cheating is doing something your partner doesn't want you to do. Its not cheating if I go over to my friends house and have sex with his wife and she knows about it, it is cheating if we meet alone together without telling our spouses.

On a personal note my wife HATES anything and everything about cheating. If she is reading a book and the main character cheats on someone she stops reading, regardless of the circumstances, she just can't even handle the thought and looks down on people who do. Shes also a swinger and has had sex with multiple men since we have been married. This is not a logical contradiction. Her her its the lying and betrayal of trust that makes it cheating, sex is just fun. Despite the fact that she is a swinger, I NEVER have to worry about her even thinking of having sex with another man no matter where she is or what she is doing. Until you are a swinger and really know how this dynamic works its very hard to understand from the outside. My wife is completely faithful, as am I to her.

And I also don't get this swinging thing he told me about, that people just have sex outside their marriage so I decided to look up a forum on the Internet and post here. Please tell me, what am I doing irrationally, and how is it emotional blackmail if I choose to break up with him if he fucks someone else??

I'm still guessing you are too young/inexperienced to 'get' swinging. I wouldn't have dreamed of it when I was first having sexual relationships myself. It doesn't matter if you never like swinging, or some day become the poster child for it, right now you are not happy with the concept and thats all that matters. Your BF is obviously pushing you far to hard and far to early in your relationship for your comfort level. If the more open sexual nature he wants isn't what you want then you are are an impasse.

Its really his fault for pushing it at this point I think and let me tell you hes not going to change his attitude and suddenly become Mr. Monogamous in how he thinks. He is hoping you come around to his way of thinking, and a lot of women do, but if you don't then you will not be compatible long term. Hes not going to change his ways willingly.

[Edison Carter]

susan here-- I know manipulation and control when I see it. I don't care if the sex is so good the neighbors need a cigarette, if the emotional pricetag is doing things that do not work for you, it's too much.

A tough thing to do is walk away from a bad situation that has great sex. Yet, truth be told, there are a lot of men that will be able to make you cum, and be much more sexually compatible with you, you just don't know it.

Lastly, you say he's into you because of what he 'says,' such as you're 'hot'. The best example of a man being into you is how he treats you and that begins with respecting your limits. Deeds, not words, establish a true relationship.

[SecretAsianMan]

Someday - in the (hopefully) near future... you will be with a man who will make your toes curl and you'll leave scratch marks in the box-frame! Yes, the sex is good... but unless you've had all the sex you're ever going to have for the rest of your life... he's NOT the best you'll ever have.

[LFM2]

Hi Emily. I'm glad you registered so you can come back and post and read.
I'm really glad that you've met someone who makes you happy both in the bed and outside the realms of the bedroom as well. I have no doubt that he's "into" you, and I bet he loves looking at you.

Reading your post has me wondering if you and your boyfriend have the wrong idea about what we swingers "are" and do. We're not all anal whores and we definitely aren't all bisexual. I've never heard of a male swinger meeting up with a nympho in a plane and having wild anal sex, let alone two. By the way, if my husband did anything remotely like this without my knowledge or an understanding, that would be considered cheating and is a BIG no no. He'd probably find his belongings on the porch ready for removal to his new residence without me.

I hope you don't feel bad because you don't share his "fantasies". A lot of women and men don't and won't swing and that's OK. Swinging is not for everyone. There are many women and men who have this fantasy of what their version of swinging should be, but I think your bf's version is out on a separate plane that he'll never experience.

Just because you can't separate sex and love doesn't make you irrational or whatever, it makes you human. Also, some people, do have a hard time separating sex and love. Most swingers are in this hobby for the sex.

Girl, stick to your guns and don't let him try to bully you and manipulate you into doing something that you're not comfortable with. In fact, he's the swinger type that would be avoided. It is not emotional blackmail, but it might be considered emotional blackmail on you, if he's trying to coerce you into doing something you aren't comfortable with.

One thing that strikes me is that no genuine man who wants to swing would try to manipulate his wife/gf/SO to swing if they weren't comfortable. If I decided to give up swinging tomorrow, my husband would say we had a great ride and he'd give it up with me.