Open Marriage vs Swinging?

[geminigrey]

So newbie here.. the wife and I have decided that our marriage is 'open', meaning that if we met someone we want to have sex, we have approval to go play. It's still in the theoretical stage at this point, but it's still early on.

I think the difference in what we're looking at and swinging is that even though we're a couple, I don't know that we'll play together. Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with than being 'exposed' to several people. Self-conscious and all that.

Which actually puts me in a worse boat than if I were a single man. The assumption (and probably with good reason!) is that a married man playing alone is cheating on their spouse, which is worse than some single guy just trying to get laid. Of course, that sounds like I'm being whiny. I'm not really out and looking for people to go have sex with, I'm just leaving the door open to possibility.

So we'll see how things go, and if the wife feels up to playing. She's bi-curious, so the best 'warm up' would probably be to bring another female in, and see if she's comfortable with that. We shall see...

Okay, honest truth, I'm just posting because I have to get to 10 before I can upload my own avatar...now you know! Don't hate me! *sobs*

[JustAskJulie]

Hey, whatever it takes to get you to post Seriously, I've always viewed open-relationships as a type of swinging. As I posted elsewhere that is basically what I had with my ex-husband when we first got into all this. We swang (is that even a word?) together as well, but I would say most often it was each of us doing our own thing.

You are right it does put you in a much harder position than it does her for the very reasons you listed, but it doesn't make things impossible. Actually, the fact that you are doing the open relationship thing makes it easier than if you were just "swinging seperately" or actually cheating. In your situation you aren't really looking to get with couples, you are just looking for whatever. You aren't trying to make something happen (like most single/married guys we encounter in swinging). So just continue with what you have been doing and see what happens, and know that if someting does come along you can be open to it and let it happen.

[good times]

Originally Posted by geminigrey

So newbie here.. the wife and I have decided that our marriage is 'open', meaning that if we met someone we want to have sex, we have approval to go play. It's still in the theoretical stage at this point, but it's still early on.

I think the difference in what we're looking at and swinging is that even though we're a couple, I don't know that we'll play together. Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with than being 'exposed' to several people. Self-conscious and all that.

Which actually puts me in a worse boat than if I were a single man. The assumption (and probably with good reason!) is that a married man playing alone is cheating on their spouse, which is worse than some single guy just trying to get laid. Of course, that sounds like I'm being whiny. I'm not really out and looking for people to go have sex with, I'm just leaving the door open to possibility.

So we'll see how things go, and if the wife feels up to playing. She's bi-curious, so the best 'warm up' would probably be to bring another female in, and see if she's comfortable with that. We shall see...

Okay, honest truth, I'm just posting because I have to get to 10 before I can upload my own avatar...now you know! Don't hate me! *sobs*

This is actually how my wife and I first started. Funny thing is, once we decided to go for it, the opportunity presented itself to me before it did for her, which surprised both of us. After each having one "open relationship" experience, we ultimately decided that it wasn't working for us, and that swinging with other couples worked much better.

Look forward to seeing your avatar.

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Actually, the fact that you are doing the open relationship thing makes it easier than if you were just "swinging seperately" or actually cheating.

And that's the biggest piece of worthwhile advice I've picked up along the road. Whether playing as a couple or off doing your own thing, have to be open and honest about the whole thing. I'm not going to make up some cover story to go to Georgia, when I'm actually meeting up with somebody. Whatever I do, I'm going to make sure that she knows about it, and that she's cool with it. If she's not cool with it, it doesn't need to happen, and we need to talk about why. Same thing applies even if we play together.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by geminigrey

I think the difference in what we're looking at and swinging is that even though we're a couple, I don't know that we'll play together. Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with than being 'exposed' to several people. Self-conscious and all that.

Well...I really don't want to burst your 'open relationship' bubble/label...but there are quite a few people in the lifestyle that play precisely the way you describe. They want to be friends first and then the sex...whatever you may think you 'know' about swinging might just be turned on it's ear by reading the Board and profiles on SLS (saw you joined there). Swingers don't just drop trou for all and sundry...many of us tend to be pretty picky about who we will and will not play with...so strike that myth down. As for not playing as a couple, there are folks in the LS that also play that way...it's hard to get 4 people that are sexually compatible, so for some they choose the separate play.

Which actually puts me in a worse boat than if I were a single man. The assumption (and probably with good reason!) is that a married man playing alone is cheating on their spouse, which is worse than some single guy just trying to get laid. Of course, that sounds like I'm being whiny. I'm not really out and looking for people to go have sex with, I'm just leaving the door open to possibility.

I don't necessarily think this is the case. In everyday life there are probably women that will play with you...I've been a cheater before...and my playmates were married men. I know, I know...take my swinger card away and stone me now. I am NOT insinuating that you are cheating, obviously your wife is in the know...I'm just trying to illustrate the point that I wasn't looking in clubs or on personals sites for playmates, they were men I knew from a vanilla setting. If you are looking on SLS for playmates, I will agree that you may have a more difficult time finding a playmate that thinks you are legit.

So we'll see how things go, and if the wife feels up to playing. She's bi-curious, so the best 'warm up' would probably be to bring another female in, and see if she's comfortable with that. We shall see...

I'm confused here...first you say you aren't playing as a couple...but here you mention bringing another female in. Can you please elaborate?

Okay, honest truth, I'm just posting because I have to get to 10 before I can upload my own avatar...now you know! Don't hate me! *sobs*

You're half way there! Can't wait to see it

Also...

[couplewanting50]

Playing alone as a swinging couple seems to be essentially the same as an open marriage as you describe it.

Pondering this as the male half of a couple that has decided to explore playing alone, and knowing that single males in the swing lifestyle have fewer opportunities than single females, the open relationship language seems to offer greater promise. Meaning, if you meet women with whom you would like to play, saying that you are in an open relationship would be more acceptable to a woman than saying that you are a swinger who plays alone.

Forgive me if I am off topic from this thread. These thoughts just occurred to me as I have been reading. All of the many designations of variations on lifestyles make up a continuum in a huge gray area. So much overlap.

This all sharpens the boundary between people in the lifestyle and in the vanilla world, because people in the lifestyle are not so hung up on labels and meaning. They are immersed in exploration and pleasure.

Maybe you use the label that you think will work the best with whomever you are talking.

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by sexcupid

I'm confused here...first you say you aren't playing as a couple...but here you mention bringing another female in. Can you please elaborate?

It's not that playing as a couple is out, it's just not as likely to happen. At this point, where she is cool with each of us doing our own thing seperately, I don't think she's comfortable with the idea of getting together as a group with 4 folks or anything. Right now it's more like she already has a few people that she has talked to for a long time, has built a friendship with, and is interested in, and now if they ever get a chance to meet she is free to play with them, but as far as going out and meeting new people, she's more nervous about.

If it sounds kind of fuzzy, it is to me too, so join the club. Which is why for the most part, we're not looking for anything, it's more like just leaving the door open and see if anything interesting wanders up. So far all I've gotten is door-to-door salesman and holy rollers, though, dangit!

[iapr]

A question I have is where are you going to be looking for your playmates? Are you going to be looking from within the swinger community, Craigslist, vanilla bars etc etc?

Lets face it, she will be able to pick up playmates in the produce section of the grocery store but you will have your work cut out for you. I do think if you attended lifestyle clubs and parties together as a couple and made it publically know within the lifestyle that you are separate play prefered I think you have a fighting chance. If people know that you as a couple play separately and that you aren't cheating you will not be thought of as a cheater or single guy. They will often have to hear it from here though.

[Bama0468]

I agree, also building a profile some place, not making it about sex and just try building a friendship or even a good aquaintence type thing with people that interest you. In the process of talking your lifestyle will come out with those you are comfortable with and go from there, some will balk, some will be cool with it, and some ( a few) may even want to hook up

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by iapr

A question I have is where are you going to be looking for your playmates? Are you going to be looking from within the swinger community, Craigslist, vanilla bars etc etc?

Honestly, I probably won't do much active looking. There's one lady that I've been talking to in Georgia that may become a playmate, but other than that, I'm just perusing this board and SLS, chatting with folks, and doing more talking than anything.

Originally Posted by iapr

Lets face it, she will be able to pick up playmates in the produce section of the grocery store but you will have your work cut out for you. I do think if you attended lifestyle clubs and parties together as a couple and made it publically know within the lifestyle that you are separate play prefered I think you have a fighting chance. If people know that you as a couple play separately and that you aren't cheating you will not be thought of as a cheater or single guy. They will often have to hear it from here though.

I think I might eventually wander up to one of the social clubs, and hopefully the wife will want to come as well and see what folks are like and all that. But I'm in no rush.

Originally Posted by Bama0468

I agree, also building a profile some place, not making it about sex and just try building a friendship or even a good aquaintence type thing with people that interest you. In the process of talking your lifestyle will come out with those you are comfortable with and go from there, some will balk, some will be cool with it, and some ( a few) may even want to hook up

Yup..that's kind of where I'm at. Just talking to folks, getting to know them, and *shrugs* maybe something will come of it. If not, I'm not sweating it either. I can at least say I won't be one of those desperate guys at the club, starving for sex.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by geminigrey

Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with

I'm going to rain on this thread a bit.

When I read this my first thought is 'Divorce in 2 years tops'.

Someone new inspires those sort of crazy 'in love' feeling you don't get from your current spouse that you have been with for years. They are more fun to be with because of this, you just don't seem as fun, and he wants to get married and see the world with her or some such.

'Honey its not you its me, I don't know what I want any more, I need time alone. blah blah.'

'Translation, I have more fun with him, see ya.'

Finding stats on this stuff isn't easy but from what I've gathered open marriages have very low success rates, too much appart and the marriage seems to become less of a loving intimate marriage and more of a friends/business associate type of thing.

I can't say I have personal experience with this, but the only two open marriages I knew of both quickly failed.

I think swinging does work long term because its a 'together' thing, a shared experiance. Even when couples play alone it tends to be with people they already know together. Its a bit different than 'Honey I met this great guy today, don't wait up.'

Like all things sexual I'm sure for some this can work and still maintain a real to death do us part marriage, but I don't like the odds.

[ncmd_couple]

Chicup,

Yeah, you are probably right, but don't rain on their parade yet. We all get to our place in life at our own pace. Part of that is terminology. Grey may be using the words that he knows But he found his way here. Will this work for them? Who the hell knows? But give them time.

S

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I'm going to rain on this thread a bit.

When I read this my first thought is 'Divorce in 2 years tops'.

I won't lie, there is some discord on the home front because the wife is quite solidly addicted to Second Life (online community, hard to explain, but google it if you're not familiar with it) and there's one person in particular that she has an online relationship with. And that's all fine and dandy, except that she's pretty absorbed in it to the exclusion of everything else.

Will it work and last? *shrugs* Dunno...the alternative options are to lock everything down, no playing or flirting or outside relationships, or to get a divorce now and move on. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I don't really know that the first one is a viable option either, actually. So I'm willing to try and see if we can maintain a working marriage, while having relationships outside of it.

And I'm sure you could find stats that show swingers' marriages have a high rate of failure too. I mean, hell, marriages in general have a high rate of divorce. Nothing is really ever certain, especially when people get involved.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by geminigrey

I won't lie, there is some discord on the home front because the wife is quite solidly addicted to Second Life (online community, hard to explain, but google it if you're not familiar with it) and there's one person in particular that she has an online relationship with. And that's all fine and dandy, except that she's pretty absorbed in it to the exclusion of everything else.

Ok its worse than I thought. I'm very familiar with this sort of thing, in fact the last open marriage I knew that failed was a woman I knew from an online game. She wasn't happy at home, her husband agreed to the open marriage (he wasn't happy with her either), shes now divorced and living with her online buddy.

I've been involved in online gaming for years, and I've seen this happen now in one form or another about 5 times.

You are in trouble, and if the guy she knows online is her 1-1 friend she wants you are in serious trouble (unless he is married, then he will have an affair he won't leave his wife and she will be miserable about it (yea saw that too)) .

Breaking the online addiction is very hard, its one of those where she will basically have to get sick of it, you can't really reason with it.

I wish I had some constructive advice on how to fix this but I don't other than you need to either ween her from the game 'somehow' or maybe even play yourself to get more together time (though that doesn't always work). I find the entire concept of second life to be about as exciting as watching paint dry but it would be worth it to save your marriage.

Will it work and last? *shrugs* Dunno...the alternative options are to lock everything down, no playing or flirting or outside relationships, or to get a divorce now and move on. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I don't really know that the first one is a viable option either, actually. So I'm willing to try and see if we can maintain a working marriage, while having relationships outside of it.

And I'm sure you could find stats that show swingers' marriages have a high rate of failure too. I mean, hell, marriages in general have a high rate of divorce. Nothing is really ever certain, especially when people get involved.

My impression was that open marriages were less stable above and beyond normal divorce rates, but I think you are trying to fix a broken relationship in a way that almost guarantees failure. If you are not #1 in her life now, you most definitely won't be after she starts to play around with someone else.

Edit: Though knowing the second life crowd your wifes 'friend' could turn out to be 15

[ViSexual]

I don't know. The 'open marriage' thing has always sounded, to me, like short trial separations.

OK, those of you have done it successfully, please excuse me.

I loved our swinging and would absolutely love to get back into it in some way.

But, about a year ago my wife actually mentioned the possibility of an open marriage. It was a point when I was actually a bit depressed about not swinging anymore.

My very first feeling was a little excitement but then I realized that I'd feel so darn guilty if I did it that it wouldn't be enjoyable. I would have to be single, not just have permission, to enjoy being alone with someone else.

And, Julie, is the fact you and your first husband are ex-s partly due to just this?

To me 'swinging' is when couples are enjoying this adventure together. Well, separate rooms accepted.