Need advice (long)

[Smitty]

Hi,

I have some questions that I think fit most appropriately on this forum, hence your insight and opinions are very greatly appreciated as I've been under a great deal of stress off and on emotionally. I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible, but I guess it's important for me to get this off my chest and hear others opinions. I apologize for the length but there's no easier way for me to sum this up.

I'll try to provide just a bit of background first. Basically, my wife and I were friends for 4 years before we were married. We had a great dating relationship for the most part, and I enjoyed our friendship immensely, as did she. We've been married now for 10 years. Our marriage got off to a rocky start though; we both cheated on each other prior to being married(which sounds contradictory to stating we had a great dating relationship but not necessarily true) Subsequently, all of it came to light a couple of months post-marriage. Anyway, neither one of us thought the other would cheat, so it was a huge shock for both of us.

WHY I CHEATED

My affair happened because I became emotionally attached to a girl I met over a certain internet chat room, and I never intended at all to have an affair(I'm sure this probably sounds familiar as far as cheating goes). I loved my girlfriend and didn't have any desire to be with another woman, but over the months of just screwing around on this particular chat room, I started to like this womans personality a lot and felt close to her as a friend, but her flirtatious advances eventually began to break down my defenses.

It's probably because I took the chat thing as a joke that I never told the woman I was married, which looking back was really stupid on my part. Once I started to like this girl as a friend, I felt she'd stop hanging out and talking to me if I just leveled with her and told her I lied about being married, so I just filed it away as "what can this hurt? we're just friends, so no harm done either way." Anyway, long story short, she fell for me and before you know it I was feeling extremely attracted to her. One thing lead to another and a year later we met at a hotel on her way back to her parents home for a visit.

WHY SHE CHEATED

My wife, on the other hand, explained that her affair happened because she was feeling diffident and undesirable at the time, and it was when she became friends with a new co-worker (who she initially didn't care for) that he began telling her things that ... most women want to hear(ie. playing up her looks, joking with her and making flirtatious advances) which contributed to her behavior, and dealing with the aftermath of both of these affairs was very painful at times. So, her affair was the result of a co-worker making her feel desirable.

Anyway, that was 10 years ago and we've really done our best to put that behind us and be totally honest with each other, which I currently feel is the only way to be.

That's just a bit of background to better help you understand my current situation with this person though.

My wife and I started watching porn a few months ago(her suggestion), although I'd been watching it on and off by myself for years. In one particular show, the girl looked extremely similar to my wife and I began to feel weird because I'd get really turned on imagining that it actually was my wife in the show having sex with another man.

Anyway, that one little phenomena apparently set off an entire chain reaction in me and acted as some sort of catalyst. Over the following weeks, I began to re-examine the mental images of my wife sleeping with the person she'd cheated with and oddly, those images began to take on an erotic element.

To my surprise, I actually began to feel much less jealous over the subsequent months, and caught myself fantasizing about it daily. I began making offhand jokes/comments to my wife, teasing her about wearing really lowcut shirts around other men to guage their reaction to her. At first she was caught off guard and really surprised by some of those comments.

LETTING HER IN ON THE FANTASY

One night, it was late and we were driving back from the adult video store, per usual, and I felt I just had to level with her because the fantasies I was having were really becoming intense and I wanted her to share it with me so that I wouldn't have to feel I was keeping something from her. I wasn't sure how she'd react.

Basically, I told her what I perceive to be the truth; that for many years I'd been haunted by the images of her sleeping with another man(particularly the man she'd had an affair with) and that I'd found an extremely weird coping mechanism. I braced her upfront and told her that I know it's utterly bizarre (it would be to her given our history) but one of the ways my brain has apparently learned to cope with the jealousy is by converting it into something erotic. I told her exactly how I felt, that it really began to turn me on imagining her with the man she cheated with. I told her that I think deep down she does fantasize about other people but she'd never dare tell me lest I lose my head.

Long story short, after a bit of convincing regarding my sincerity and that it wasn't some sort of trick to catch her, she was actually able to get into the fantasy of her sleeping with other men during love making, and our communication has really began to open up since then(a few months ago).

Now then, my wife works for a manufacturing company in the accounting department. There are approximately 8 people that work in the office at her location and three of them are women. She started working there a year ago. Her boss (British, bald, upper middle aged) has flirted with her off and on (pet names, cute comments, light arm touching) but she never reciprocated. She initially didn't really care for him, but we were talking just last nite and she was honest and said that over the course of many months, his flirtatious advances have been extremely flattering, exciting and a turn-on for her. Long story short, she admitted she's had sexual dreams (3) about him. She also eventually opened up and admitted there have been fantasies involving him at the office. I reassured her I was Ok with her fantasies and that we could even roleplay them if she liked, and on that note we did, and she became EXTREMELY turned on.

She thought it was really weird talking about office fantasies involving your boss with your husband, but she was so aroused by the various fantasy scenarios relayed through dirty talk that she gave herself over and absorbed herself in them, as guaged by her physical/verbal reactions.

Sorry this is such a long post but this is the crux of my post. I really am turned on by these office fantasies, and so is she, however, I'm a bit concerned and my question is, even though this is a huge turn-on for both of us, given this is her boss, I'm wondering if I'm encouraging something that I shouldn't? Do you think this is asking for trouble or a road we should avoid?

I really don't want to encourage something that could end painfully for the both of us down the road. So, given your understanding of my situation, do you think fantasizing about your boss with your spouse might lead to her following through on them if the opportunity presented itself, in your opinion? Your input is so very needed right now. Thank you.

[ncmd_couple]

Smitty,

I’m not going to judge you on either of you cheating in your past. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

And personally, I don’t have anything negative to say about your joint fantasy about her sleeping with another man. Hey, I’m a swinger, what can I say.

But… her playing at work, and with her boss, is fraught with danger! There are just too many bad things that can impact her job. I would strongly recommend that you not do that. You two may think that this is a one time deal, but I assure you, the boss won’t. And after the fact, there may be emotional problems between you and your wife because she will be seeing him every day after that. Don’t go there!

If you two would like to live out this fantasy, first, you need to make sure that you two have talked about this extensively. There are plenty of ways to live out this fantasy without the strings of playing at work.

S

[Smitty]

Thank you for your very thoughtful input, it's extremely appreciated.

I agree completely with your opinion here, although I should mention that I've expressed to her that the office scenario is solely a fantasy of ours and that such roleplay isn't to be interpreted as a green light on my part to sleep with her boss, but that's all it was last nite; fantasizing and roleplay. So, given that we (or at least I) am not comfortable with the reality of her actually sleeping with her boss (for the very reasons you mentioned), is our private roleplay of this scenario a danger zone as well though, in your opinion? By roleplaying or fantasizing about it with her during love making, am I encouraging the type of desire in her that might cause this sort of thing to come to fruition in reality? In other words, do you think this is a dangerous idea to roleplay it privately, just between her and I? My idea was was to allow her to flesh out her fantasies with me and feel open without all of the negative consequences associated with the real deal. Is it a bad idea, in this case, you think?

Kind regards

[ncmd_couple]

Smitty,

Well, L and I don’t role play, something that we have never tried, so that is virgin territory for us. So my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with role playing, we swing with a wonderful couple who does that. And I don’t think there is anything particularly dangerous about this particular situation as long as she doesn’t act it out in real life.

One suggestion for the two of you if she feels the desire building to the point that it needs some release. Go to a local on-premise swinger club. There are all kinds of people at the clubs. Pick out someone at the club that matches your fantasy and talk to them and tell them what your desire is. He may be willing to play the part for your fantasy to live out. And there would be none of the bad repercussions that you would experience with her actual boss. I doubt you will have any problems finding a real “boss” at the club, I’m one in real life!

S

[Smitty]

Excellent advice, thank you. At this stage, I've joked around about swinging indirectly with her but never offered it up as a serious suggestion due to her verbal / body language cues. I can see her mental gears working though when I joke about it, so it's possible the joking could be taking root.

Again, thank you very much.

[ncmd_couple]

Smitty,

Swing clubs are just like any other club. The real difference is that it is a very sexy environment, and depending on the club, there are oportunities to play. However, you don't have to be a swinger to enjoy them. Even if we don't play on a particular night that we are there, we still have a great time playing with each other! But remember, open and honest communications between the two of you is the key. Be honest, honesty shall set both of you free and allow you to enjoy life together!

S

[socolais]

First, welcome to the board. It's a fun place to be....

You guys are having fun with your fantasies - enjoy it for all the pleasure it can bring to your relationship. Fantasies of having sex with other folks is not necessarily an indicator that they should be played out in real life - sometimes, a fantasy is best kept as a fantasy. And sex with co-workers is usually a bad idea - too much emotional baggage. Finding a proxy for her boss would probably be a much better idea IF you guys wanted to live out this story. Try some other stories too and see where that leads. Continue talking with each other and enjoy the extra sexual energy you two will have for each other. IF you two decide to try swinging, this is a great place to get your information.

[Smitty]

I want to sincerely thank you both for your advice and input.

[fun4Ds]

[

she became friends with a new co-worker (who she initially didn't care for) that he began telling her things that ... most women want to hear(ie. playing up her looks, joking with her and making flirtatious advances) which contributed to her behavior, and dealing with the aftermath of both of these affairs was very painful at times. So, her affair was the result of a co-worker making her feel desirable.

so now you want to repeat the same situation and you expect different results? think about this. Albert Einstein once said that the definition of crazy is repeating the exact same thing over and expecting different results. change this somehow.

Anyway, that was 10 years ago and we've really done our best to put that behind us and be totally honest with each other, which I currently feel is the only way to be.

exactly, you have come so far, leave the past behind. only you can choose a new path. the only thing worse than a mistake is not learning from it.


.

My wife and I started watching porn a few months ago(her suggestion), although I'd been watching it on and off by myself for years. In one particular show, the girl looked extremely similar to my wife and I began to feel weird because I'd get really turned on imagining that it actually was my wife in the show having sex with another man.

i see nothing wrong with that, welcome to my world. except usually i fantasize about being in the movie, same room. sometimes we are both there. so I'm a perv, sue me.

Anyway, that one little phenomena apparently set off an entire chain reaction in me and acted as some sort of catalyst. Over the following weeks, I began to re-examine the mental images of my wife sleeping with the person she'd cheated with and oddly, those images began to take on an erotic element.

this is something i don't understand perhaps, but should need some sort of self control. on your part? or at least some examination.

To my surprise, I actually began to feel much less jealous over the subsequent months, and caught myself fantasizing about it daily. I began making offhand jokes/comments to my wife, teasing her about wearing really lowcut shirts around other men to guage their reaction to her. At first she was caught off guard and really surprised by some of those comments.

we do that, it also promotes better self esteem.

Basically, I told her what I perceive to be the truth; that for many years I'd been haunted by the images of her sleeping with another man(particularly the man she'd had an affair with) and that I'd found an extremely weird coping mechanism. I braced her upfront and told her that I know it's utterly bizarre (it would be to her given our history) but one of the ways my brain has apparently learned to cope with the jealousy is by converting it into something erotic. I told her exactly how I felt, that it really began to turn me on imagining her with the man she cheated with.

i don't understand this part? it sounds some how positive. but i don't understand this...

I told her that I think deep down she does fantasize about other people but she'd never dare tell me lest I lose my head.

always show her you wont lose your head about her feelings. thats trust. you both need to cherish that.

Now then, my wife works for a manufacturing company in the accounting department. There are approximately 8 people that work in the office at her location and three of them are women. She started working there a year ago. Her boss (British, bald, upper middle aged) has flirted with her off and on (pet names, cute comments, light arm touching) but she never reciprocated. She initially didn't really care for him, but we were talking just last nite and she was honest and said that over the course of many months, his flirtatious advances have been extremely flattering, exciting and a turn-on for her.

this looks like where your redoing the past that caused an affair and expecting different results. its almost like you have the exact same setup except you have different feeling. is that where you are expecting different results? overcoming the same scenario wont change the past. but could ruin any hope of moving forward. are you wanting to move forward in your lives in the swinging lifestyle? if so keep fantasies out of the workplace for now at least. companies have rules for reasons,her supervisor should be intelligent enough to understand going to far with subordinates. she is in an office with 5 men flirting with the boss. this usually doesn't end well. she/they need to look at this seriously work is work. sure iv had the hots for a female engineer where i work but we keep things as business. i would never put my fantasies( and my wife does know how i feel here) in the work place.

She thought it was really weird talking about office fantasies involving your boss with your husband, but she was so aroused by the various fantasy scenarios relayed through dirty talk that she gave herself over and absorbed herself in them, as guaged by her physical/verbal reactions.

hell we do that also, but we leave those fantasies at home. we just never mix work and sexual fantasies. or at least we don't live them out. we need our jobs almost as much as we need sex.

Sorry this is such a long post but this is the crux of my post. I really am turned on by these office fantasies, and so is she, however, I'm a bit concerned and my question is, even though this is a huge turn-on for both of us, given this is her boss, I'm wondering if I'm encouraging something that I shouldn't? Do you think this is asking for trouble or a road we should avoid?

hell yes i do, your promoting her to chance, a very big failure, her job. will you put yours up for possible failure?

i mean come on, we have our dark side. but we need our jobs to afford them.

I really don't want to encourage something that could end painfully for the both of us down the road.

listen to your self here. DON'T!

So, given your understanding of my situation, do you think fantasizing about your boss with your spouse might lead to her following through on them if the opportunity presented itself, in your opinion?

only because your pushing her. stop and think a minute. wouldn't this all be good if it was any one but her boss at work???

think of your possible journeys together, you have dealt with the past. do your best to make your journeys possible. do your best to make them safe. travel a different road this time. you have come a very long way together. Things change. make those changes FOR THE GOOD.

[Smitty]

Thank you for your sincere and honest reply. Your points are valid and it's the reason I considered it a serious potential danger. She's turned on by this man for the very same reasons she cheated in the first place, and I realize that. It's been a huge struggle heretofore subsequent to our affairs such that I just can't see her ever putting herself in that position again, but emotions trump intellectual knowing in terms of what motivates a person to do what they do though. I truly appreciate your alternate point of view. I'm just hoping at this point our fantasizing about it last night didn't create a similar chain reaction in her that I experienced initially that would drive her to break trust again.

Personally, we went through a lot of hell to get to the place we are now and you're right, I wouldn't want to exchange all of that for a brief reprieve of mutual gratification. It's because we went through so much hell that I just can't see her making the same mistake twice, but why tempt fate?