Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

[ShellyM]

Well, I would not throw out personal attacks. I know for a fact that sometimes women turn into this alter ego, what I call "super Mommies". Their kids become their entire world....and this is NOT a bad thing. But I appreciate the fact that Jay takes care of himself, and I do the same for him. We keep our sex life on overdrive because from that physical connection comes a spiritual, intimate connection.

I do agree, she knows what he is up to. Now, I have met a few women who were absolutely blindsided by an affiar, no clue at all. But most knew who she was, where she worked, how many kids she had, etc. etc. and etc. To do something like asking her to become a swinger on Mother's Day knowing how she feels about the issue was not smart. I don't know the OP enough to say whether or not it was malicious in nature, I can only hope that it wasn't.

Shelly

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- It's so silly when a man says he has been discrete and his affairs have never effected his wife. Of course they have. With every lie and deception they effect his wife. n time, as the song goes, he puts another brick in the wall.

Also, it's not about them swinging. He's just looking for a license to fuck other women. Now, that's certainly part of what we like, but for this person it's THE thing.

Swinging is about sharing your sexual self, not hiding it. And it's not for everyone and if that person happens to be your spouse, you have to accept it.

[intuition897]

You ever get to a point where you're just tired? Just really tired of saying the same damn thing over and over again, only to repeat it with as much passion the next day? I feel I'm reaching a point where I'm just tired of verbally spanking people who won't learn anything from it anyway.

Today's your lucky day, DKent. I have read this thread through and although my comments would be mere reiterations of the musings of such posters as Chicup, Alura, Spoomonkey, TheFuse, TNT and many more, I still have my own thoughts about your chosen lifestyle. Please don't ask for my opinion, because there wouldn't be much left of your ass when I was done chewing on it. I find it exhausting to expend so much energy and time on a response that is just a dose of common sense, hoping against hope that the intended audience would hear it and get a clue, only to suffer the demoralizing frustration and disappointment of yet another closed mind refusing to accept a simple Truth.

Teresa, you and I are on the same page: we both write and think the word Truth with an upper-case 'T'. I'd expand on that thought, but it's all I can do to stop here. DKent, if you're really interested in my thoughts on the matter (though as you've said, you've had quite enough input, TYVM), you can search for the words cheater, cheating, etc. You'll probably find my name on the vast majority of those threads, repeating the same mantras over and over. To no avail. It's sad. The cheater says his piece, I say mine, cheater says, "You losers SUCK because you're not telling me what I want to hear. I'm outta here." and things settle down. But the cheaters cometh, and we do the same dance over and over. You may not believe it or like it, but your story is NOT unique. Nothing you've said is news to us.

[counting to 10....stopping...taking fingers off keyboard...]

[ShellyM]

I absolutely agree. She knows everything I'm sure, and for whatever reason turns a blind eye to whats going on. This is most likely why she does not want him to touch her.....what woman would want her husband to make love to her when she knows he is banging other women behind her back? Aside from the fact that it is just inexcusably wrong to cheat there are other concerns such as bringing home possible illness and disease to a wife that is completely innocent. I have been asked by married cheating men to play with them on many occasions. And I have spoken with people who say that they do it, "its not their problem".....but I always tell the man that my conscience will not allow me to be in a hotel room with him knowing that a good woman and his children are at home waiting for husband and daddy to come home from his "meeting". Just not something I can do and then have the ability to look myself in the face.
Shelly

[DKent]

Shelly: You've been right about much here but not that she knows about my past cheating. She knows nothing. Zip. Yes, I've been THAT careful. To be 100% accurate, it's not just "the hassle" of setting up secret trysts as Spoomonkey asserts - it's actually that I WANT to be exclusive to my wife, and seeing her finally beginning to open up into a person who can give more intimacy gives me hope that my needs can and will again be fulfilled by her. For the record, you're all entirely wrong in saying I ever denied my family one moment of the time they deserved, spending it with another woman. You have no clue, so don't even go there. I've doted on my family (wife and kids) more than anyone I know, even to the detriment of my own business through the years - taking days off for ballgames or dance recitals.<p>
Do I want to swing just so I can fuck other women? Absolutely not! I'd rather watch my wife enjoying the scene, whether it's merely observing others, or being gang-banged, and sit by the side without touching anyone else, than to indulge myself while she either does nothing or goes through the motinos just for me but doesn't like it. And that's ONLY if that is what SHE wants! I opened up the can of worms (and although the day wasn't well-chosen, it is irrelevant to the situation and of course, not malicious as someone suggested) in the belief that she MIGHT be one of those "quiet" women harboring secret desires, or maybe a latent curiousity in such thing. Since then, I've learned I was wrong. She isn't interested and swinging is off the table. I acknowledged it and accepted it and my original post was merely to discuss this turn of events with other men in the same boat.<p>
In all your vehement efforts to condemn me and throw rocks, only a few of you actually are hearing me.

[intuition897]

I've tried, but it's like I've got Tourette's when it comes to this topic.

Originally Posted by DKent

Shelly: You've been right about much here but not that she knows about my past cheating. She knows nothing. Zip. Yes, I've been THAT careful.

She may not have any evidence, but the fact that you are able to do it in the first place means that you are okay with being dishonest with her. No matter how you might cover your tracks, you can't hide the quirk in your eyes when you tell her that there is no one else. And if you are able to convince her, then I am very sorry for you. I don't know how you could sleep at night.

Originally Posted by DKent

To be 100% accurate, it's not just "the hassle" of setting up secret trysts as Spoomonkey asserts - it's actually that I WANT to be exclusive to my wife, and seeing her finally beginning to open up into a person who can give more intimacy gives me hope that my needs can and will again be fulfilled by her.

So, uh...why the hell don't you just tell the woman that she's not doing it for you? Why all the coy head games? It's no wonder she didn't go for the idea of swinging, knowing that she wasn't enough for you. Most women going into it are afraid of just that, but the thing is, for her, it's actually true. Isn't it?

Originally Posted by DKent

For the record, you're all entirely wrong in saying I ever denied my family one moment of the time they deserved, spending it with another woman. You have no clue, so don't even go there. I've doted on my family (wife and kids) more than anyone I know, even to the detriment of my own business through the years - taking days off for ballgames or dance recitals.

Commendable.

Yet, apparently, you still don't value honesty.

Originally Posted by DKent

In all your vehement efforts to condemn me and throw rocks, only a few of you actually are hearing me.

Again, you haven't said anything we haven't heard before. So maybe you're tired of cheating and being dishonest, and that's great. But the fact that you dislike that un-warm-&-fuzzy feeling that it gives you to lie to your wife doesn't change the fact that you are still okay with it! You said it yourself. You don't feel any guilt over your past affairs. You don't regret them.

You scoffed at the idea of coming clean, but I tell you this: until you do, it'll be like a rotting corpse under the floorboards. I'm sorry man, but most of us here practice honesty religiously. Don't assume that we haven't had to own up to some pretty big mistakes. It's not impossible; it's just very painful and very difficult. But we'd rather give our spouses the dignity of an informed choice. Or is it that you're certain she would dump your ass on the curb? In that case, it's just your own ass you're protecting...not hers. You are who you are. If you're such a great guy, such a great husband and family man as you've argued here, then surely your wife will see that and overlook your dishonesty with her. Do you not trust your wife to know what's in her own best interest? Like you said, you're a great guy! Surely she'll want to keep you. So what are you afraid of. If it were me, I'd rather know the real man I married, not just the mask he shows me. Then again, that's just me.

[ShellyM]

I agree with Intuition. I am not condemning you DKent, just stating my opinion. I said that some women are broadsided by affairs. My cousin was one. Her husband walks in, says he has another woman, so long been nice knowing you. If you had seen the destroyed woman I saw you would feel some guilt. Trust me. What pisses me off is the fact that you almost blame your wife. Its the old trick: "If she were taking care of me at home I wouldn't HAVE to cheat"....sorry, passing the buck. I chewed a friend out for telling me that about the wife of the man she was having an affair with. Took about 20 pounds off of her ass. Another thing that annoys me is this: When your wife finds out about your affairs she will probably BLAME HERSELF. Women are notorious for accepting the blame. She will be looking at what SHE could have done to keep you faithful. Shame on you for that. Again, I'm not condemning you. You have condemned yourself. Do I make mistakes? Hell yes I do. I have in swinging for goodness sakes, truth be told. But Jay and I are honest with each other, even when honesty pisses one of us off. Regarding coming clean. Its the right thing to do. I don't know, thats up to you.
Shelly

[Alura]

Most times, when people confess affairs, the underlying purpose is not to "come clean" but to inflict pain on the spouse.

I'm not convinced DKent should "come clean," Shelly. It seems to me that his wife doesn't deserve the pain it would give her. I think he should carry his past foibles to the grave and live with the knowledge that he's not the knight he would like to believe he is. Admitting that to himself is probably about as far as he would be able to go.

But I also think he should quit kidding himself by believing he's done her no harm.

Still, I would not be surprised (and neither should he) if one day his wife says, "I know about Mary, Elizabeth, Wynona, Denise, ..."

Mr. Alura

[intuition897]

I can't argue with that, Alura. I just feel that when a relationship has a thorn that big buried in its side (covered over though it may be), I, personally, wouldn't have much hope for the quality of the remainder of the relationship. If the relationship is all about longevity, then he's all set. But again, personally, I prefer quality over quantity. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship that prolonged pain. It's like having an impairment of some sort and not even knowing it.

I guess maybe that's it. Unlinke you and Laura, or Mr. and Mrs. Spoomonkey or many others on the board, I can't boast that my relationship with Mr. intuition was always beautiful. I don't hold it against any of you, , but I do envy you all those extra years that you had together, being one another's best friends, that Mr. intuition and I wasted in our dishonesty with ourselves and with one another. It's when you can see the contrast between "settling for" and true happiness that the tragedy of it really hits you. If you've never seen how good things can be, you don't have any perspective, and "settling for" is all you know.

[Cpl2share]

DKent: Sorry but we just can not accept your "explainations". Go back and read your own posts. You will see that despite your assertions, you can not even be honest with us on this board. You are right, we do not know you, we have no clue who you are, and could possibly work right next to you without knowing it. Yet, even with the anonymity afforded by this board you can not face the truth. Your very first post stated that you wanted to swing so that you would be able to quit sneeking around to get more sex. Yet in your ost recent post you try to convince us that your interest is all about helping your wife realize her latent sexual desires. If you had truly been such a good attentive husband over the years, you would already know that your wife does not have a desire to be gang banged while you just sit and watch. If you were really interested in this for HER, and not wanting more sex for yourself, you would have been encouraging her to have sex on the side, not sneaking around yourself. If your really wanted advice and explaination from this board you would be honest with teh members and tell the truth. And, unlike the way that you treat your wife, the story would be consistant. As ann earlier poster said, you just want to hear what you want to hear. You will find very few people in this forum that will condone cheating for any reason, and you will find damned few who will feel sorry for you. We truly pity your wife.

[Edison Carter]

Susan here---It seems that most cheating men have the same litany:

The wife doesn't know anything.
The family never has been effected.
They've been there for the kids, above and beyond.
They've made great personal and professional sacrifices

Puhhhhhlllleeeeeeeeeeeeeze. We've heard it all before.

Come to think of it, is it the same litany or the same delusion ?

Hmmmmmmmm.

[LOL_OMG]

Welp I finally caught up with this thread, and

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

And women aren't stupid... Except for the stupid ones - and we know who you are Spoomonkey

CRAP.

As to the OPer, I would advise to read what's been said and take a look at yourself....however you appear to be a bit narcissistic and probably won't. I agree that coming clean with the cheating would only hurt your wife. I also think that cheating is more than just sex, but the thrill and danger of doing it and not getting caught (which you seemed quite proud of). Much like shoplifting, or worse...aka sociopath.

Hows about making your wife your priority? Making her wishes come true, finding out what HER fantasies are, pleasing her every minute you can? You've gotten "off" enough, maybe it's her turn.

Mrs

[Annie07]

I agree that cheating is basically wrong but that it sometimes seems like it is better than the alternative. I have had a previous relationship that lasted 7 years. During that time my then spouse became more and more selfish as he felt more secure that I would stay with him after moving in together, having children, buying a house etc. He was very selfish both in and out of bed, making sure he got what he wanted. It came to the point that I couldn´t stand him touching me...hell, I didn´t even want to look at him. A friend of mine gave me the advise to find me a lover but to stay in my relationship because of my children. I have never cheated on anyone but at the time I really considered it. Finally I came to the conclusion that even though I had lost all respect for my spouse I didn´t want to cheat on him so I moved out.

After I left things really started to get ugly. There was no lower limit on what he would say and do to get back at me for leaving him even putting our children in the middle. I wont go into the details but one of the things he did was to accuse me of cheating with his best friend who for some reason thought it was a good idea to say that I had been trying to get him into bed even though it wasn´t true. Well my point is that I really really regret that I didn´t cheat. Atleast I could have had som fun during those years with that excuse for a man, but instead I stayed faithfull to someone who really didn´t deserve it.

This might not apply to the situation in this thread but I am only trying to point out that when it comes to cheating sometimes it´s not all black or white but that there may be a few grey areas. And to break up a relationship when children are involved is not easy.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Annie07

I agree that cheating is basically wrong but that it sometimes seems like it is better than the alternative.

I can't say that I agree with that.

Originally Posted by Annie07

Finally I came to the conclusion that even though I had lost all respect for my spouse I didn´t want to cheat on him so I moved out.

Brava.

Originally Posted by Annie07

Well my point is that I really really regret that I didn´t cheat. Atleast I could have had som fun during those years with that excuse for a man, but instead I stayed faithfull to someone who really didn´t deserve it.

This might not apply to the situation in this thread but I am only trying to point out that when it comes to cheating sometimes it´s not all black or white but that there may be a few grey areas. And to break up a relationship when children are involved is not easy.

I agree that making stay or go decisions are much more difficult when the stakes are so high, but it doesn't alleviate the burden of making the choice. What makes it okay to make the wrong choice? How much money? How many kids? How many bills? I feel that, where kids are concerned, I'd rather that they see someone doing the right thing even though it's difficult to do, than doing the wrong thing because it's easier. It's not so gray that you can't see what's right or wrong. My job isn't to shield them from the unpleasantness of life - people who suck, tight finances, big changes like death or divorce - but to prepare them for it and make them see that tough circumstances don't absolve us from doing what's right.

The fact that you didn't cheat on your ex has less to do with him, and more to do with you. What some people miss, I think, is that cheaters harm themselves at least as much as the partner they cheat on. Maybe more. Where their partner can walk away from the cheater, having been hurt by them, the cheater cannot walk away him/herself. They live with the definition they gave themselves for the rest of their lives. They can no longer say that they've never done wrong, that they are incapable of such low behaviour. The things we do in our past are stains that don't come out. Our past is written in permanent ink, and we can't change it. It becomes part of who we are.

So all you've missed out on is being an asshole who disrespects herself and her husband...even if he didn't deserve it. The respect was there for him to earn if he wanted it. The fact that he didn't do anything to deserve it doesn't mean your good intentions were wasted. If he didn't have anything to live up to, it would've made his behaviour okay. He'd met the standards you would have set for him. The fact that you set the standards appropriately high just shows that he's sadly lacking as a human being...and you're not.

[ShellyM]

Annie,
I'm just glad you got out of there girlie.
Kudos to you for that.
And bravo to you for not cheating. I know that it seems like you wasted your years with this loser, and you probably did....although your wonderful children came from it. However, good karma will come back to you for doing the right thing girl. Give him time. What goes around ALWAYS comes back around.
Promise.
Shelly