disorganized thoughts on swinging

[socolais]

What are the similarities between swinging and "sticking your head in the jaws of a lion"???? Is there a feeling of accomplishment in the metaphorical risk of loosing it all and having WON!!!???

Lion taming is not one of the "seven deadly sins" while adultery is.....

The very first time we swing (commit adultery), we loose something of ourselves - an embodiment of the swinging virginity (I'm not sure how to define that further). We can never get that back even if we later decide that swinging is not the solution we (I) seek. What's the probability of "buyer's remorse"???

On the other hand, it is easily an opportunity for personal growth that we can share and become stronger together. We go in fully knowing and accepting the risks and costs of swinging in exchange for the potential benefits.

I'm still wrestling with my selfish component of wanting to swing as a way to satisfy my hypersexual urges. Is it self-centered of me to assume that the right answer for me is also an acceptable solution for her???

Is swinging simply a sensational demonstration that we have willingly taken the risk and found ourselves triumphant???

Is repeatedly acting on the lustful pleasures of the flesh the reward for having a sufficiently strong partnership that our marriage survives (maybe even thrives)???

I came to explore swinging as a potential solution to my (self-diagnosed) hypersexuality - I have a one-track mind. Masturbation usually satisfies the physical urges for a little while, but is it as therapeutic in the short term as it appears on the surface? I'm a first-hand witness of the failure of the long term therapeutic value of masturbation (how's that for a pun?). Is practicing adultery a more desirable solution than masturbation alone???

Is self-actualization through swinging the penultimate layer of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs??? Or, am I reading way too much into this and swinging is just simply the best form of adult entertainment available to us mere mortals???

How do behavior rules fit into this puzzle? On what basis do we reserve a subset of sexual arousal experiences for our exclusive interaction??? I think I already have an enviable arrangement for exclusivity.

Anyone recognise my thought paterns and willing to offer constructive guidance?

Bruce

[spectraschain]

Or, am I reading way too much into this and swinging is just simply the best form of adult entertainment available to us mere mortals???

Well, swinging and golf....
You need to golf more, Bruce...and take a pill...

[TNT]

Originally Posted by socolais

Anyone recognise my thought paterns and willing to offer constructive guidance?

Well I don't know about recognizing your throught patterns but I'll let you know what I noticed the most in your post....

Originally Posted by socolais

Lion taming is not one of the "seven deadly sins" while adultery is.....

The very first time we swing (commit adultery)

Is practicing adultery a more desirable solution than masturbation alone???

You seem to equate swinging with sin/adultery....IF you ever do swing this will need to the first thing that you come to terms with.

Since it seems to me that you are struggling with this, I would suggest you check out this site www.libchrist.com it might help you answer some of your questions.


Teresa

[BradAndJanet]

Not once did you mention your partner.

If you're considering swinging as a way to sate your sexual urges without her consideration, I will tell you now what a disaster you'll create.

-B

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by socolais

I'm still wrestling with my selfish component of wanting to swing as a way to satisfy my hypersexual urges.
....
I came to explore swinging as a potential solution to my (self-diagnosed) hypersexuality - I have a one-track mind.
....
Masturbation usually satisfies the physical urges for a little while, but is it as therapeutic in the short term as it appears on the surface? I'm a first-hand witness of the failure of the long term therapeutic value of masturbation (how's that for a pun?). Is practicing adultery a more desirable solution than masturbation alone???

Bruce, the way you talk, you sound like you're struggling with sexual addiction. It sounds like you're trying to find a cure, and considering swinging as the potential cure. You "treated" yourself with masturbation, that failed to control your thoughts, so you want to "treat" your "condition" (hypersexuality) with swinging?

No, this wouldn't work for so many reasons. For one, you don't swing alone. Your mate is involved - very involved. You seem far more focused on how this all affects you personally (and your hypersexuality) than how it affects your relationship with your wife, and her as an individual. Swinging also involves others, of course. Between "treating" your "condition" with swinging, and what sounds like hang-ups about committing adultery, it sounds like drama in the making. Even if the other couple doesn't quite know what's going on with you, I have a feeling that they'd have a sense that something was off. It sounds like the makings for an uncomfortable situation, at best.

If you're going to swing, make peace with yourself first. Swingers don't consider themselves adulterers. Swingers aren't using swinging, using other people, to self-medicate (I would hope).

If you are having inner struggles, and if you feel like you're struggling alone with "hypersexuality", why not seek help instead of self-diagnosing? Help is out there, if you want it. I hope you find peace.

[socolais]

Some good responses here..... exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!!

I guess I'm a golf virgin too, unless putt-putt might count. But I think I understand your intent. As an engineer, I tend to over analyze things. I would like to see myself being more spontaneous.

I'm not really religous in the typical meaning of that term. Just looking from this at different angles. Perhaps I could have chosen a more appropriate word than adultery. I'm still figuring this thing out and I'm not so concerned about "sin".

My wife and I have discussed this and we're still at the beginning of the trail - she is definately included in the decision process, I couldn't imagine it otherwise. I also have the responsibility to perform due diligence and arrive at the conclusion that it is right or wrong for me as an individual. The final decision will be a joint effort.

The real selling point for the lifestyle for me was the concept of seperating love and sex. I think I have that figured out - she's still wrestling with the concept.

Thanks again for your input

Bruce

[Happypair]

As a fellow over-analyzer, may I suggest the following website to you: www.the4playclub.com . This is a forum-style site affiliated with an Ottawa, Canada, club. It doesn't touch specifically on the moral/religious side of swinging, but does address almost every other fear or doubt that new or prospective swingers might have. Go to the Beginners Corner section and enjoy it, topic by topic. The 'Are You Ready?' test is very revealing, although I suggest you leave it for last. And please, as others have noted above, make your wife a part of the research.. swinging is a team sport.

[Swingercast]

Originally Posted by socolais

Is self-actualization through swinging the penultimate layer of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs??? Or, am I reading way too much into this and swinging is just simply the best form of adult entertainment available to us mere mortals???

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I'm not sure I can offer much help (I had to google "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs" and "penultimate").

First off, glad to see that you admitted a mistake in using the "A" word. I can't speak for all swingers but the ones that I have interacted with would strongly disagree that what we do is adultery.

I realize that some dictionaries define this word as:
"voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse."

But I see adultery as:

"extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations;"

While I don't know everything there is to know about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory, what little I understand tends to make me believe that your question (is it the penultimate layer?) can only be answered by you and your wife together.

Originally Posted by socolais

The real selling point for the lifestyle for me was the concept of seperating love and sex. I think I have that figured out - she's still wrestling with the concept.

I hear/read a lot of men who are new say this. "I'm cool with it but how do I...."

YOU don't have it figured out until BOTH of you are comfortable with it. And the only way for that to happen is to work it out together.

Talk. Rinse. Repeat.

Good Luck!

John

[socolais]

Thank you for that link, I'll have to check it out more when I have some time alone. It looks like some good beginner information there. It really makes me appreciate that there are no glaring images on this site.

It looks like I'm not as effective as a communicator here as I normally find myself. I'm the more assertive one of the couple and the one to routinely suggest a new activity or toy. We are discussing this as a couple and closely knit team. Before we make our first move, I need to convince myself that it is indeed her active decision to participate and enjoy and not that she's just following along with another one of my hairbrained ideas.

Just a quick comment about labels. A wise man once said, "a rose by any other name would smell the same". There are several definitions for adultery and one of them is engaging in sexual activities with a spouse other than your own (opposite gender typically implied). I used that term to describe swinging activities because I haven't seen it used on the forums and thought it would bring a few fresh perspectives to the surface.

I see swinging as a good opportunity to experience some new and fresh sensations in a highly charged erotic setting, all with the intended result of rejuvinating our emotional attachment to each other. If the process is fun too, well I guess I can handle that ;-)

and again, I want to say how appreciative I am of the mature and respectful comments I read on this forum. I haven't posted much yet, but I'm getting to know yall by reading your comments.

If anyone is in the DFW area and is interested in potentially mentoring a couple into the lifestyle, let us know.

[DBL D]

It is WAY better for you to masturbate than to drag you wife, or SO, into something that clearly is "designed" to satisfy your urges. If my wife didn't want to do this, yeah it would tak some getting used to but it WOULD happen.

IT only happens because WE want it to.

And...By the way...most of us don't consider this adultery. Hedonism...Yes.
Fornication...perhaps. Adultery...NO!

Male D

[clutch]

Hey Bruce!

1. There's a book entitled, "Divine Sex," that I would recommend. If you honestly believe that you're going to commit adultery if and when you swing, I would strongly recommend that you don't swing.

If I were in that boat, I definitely wouldn't want to live with that violation of my conscience, and I am dead serious about that.


2. I may have actually heard the expression, "loss of swinging virginity," somewhere in the past, but only in the fun, hey-how-about-that sense. The tone of your expression makes it almost sound like a funeral dirge...over-shadows of Young Goodman Brown, or something.



You said:

"Taken the risk and found ourselves triumphant?"

I'm not sure I understand what that means? Found yourself triumphant of what? A successful erection? A nice afterglow? New found friends? No one had drama? All of the above?



You said:

"Is repeatedly acting on the lustful pleasures of the flesh the reward for having a sufficiently strong partnership that our marriage survives (maybe even thrives)???"

Again, specifically which lusts of the flesh are you talking about?

The lust you and your wife have for each other? If you stop to think about it, really good sex is both 100% selfish, and 100% unselfish. A good lover wants to make sure that his/her partner has at least the same, if not a better orgasm than their own cum. And yet at the same time, you can't properly have really great sex without giving your whole self to your own personal pleasure and your lust. Your partner expects and needs that for them to have their best experience.

My best sex always, always starts tender and sweet, and slowly and progressively develops into a full-blown, animal-like fucking. And, I guaran-damn-tee you that's exactly what my partner wants. And by the time I cum, she'll have cum at least twice, often more. (I do take my time with this, because the tease is the best part.)

But all of this is very specific working shoes on "acting on pleasures of the flesh, which God, Himself, invented, by the way." Every pleasure center in our body is by specific design--whether that be God (which I personally believe) or by the aliens or whoever a person thinks invented the human body.

By the way, in case you haven't figured out, the most sexual organ in the body is the brain. And the brain has lust built right into it. And it has lust, not only for your life-partner, but the capability of lust for others as well.

Who do you suppose designed it that way? Why?

That whole sensual, sexual, lust factory is a built-in component that came with the package that no human put it in him or her self. Just like AC and power windows, that sex lust and urge comes as standard features on the body. The lust part is the "drivers" that make the physical part work.

Think about that.

There are couples who try swinging and say, "This is not for us." (Usually, they'd experiment with soft-swinging to see if it appealed to them. This might be simply having sex in the same room with another couple. Or maybe in the same bed with minimal or no touching of the other couple.)

So what did they lose? Nothing. Same couple; still in love. Just know they don't want to do that with anyone else but each other. (Believe it or not, they don't grow horns, or get red letter "A's" on their chests). They're just a couple who wanted to explore together.

Regarding masturbation.....

Where did you learn whatever it is you know about masturbation? There's a website called "jackingworld.com" (or something like that) that has some real good info on it.

You say that masturbation "temporarily" satisfies your needs? To that, I say, "Exactly! That's what it's supposed to do."

Are you aware that "eating" also temporarily satisfies your nutrition and hunger needs? But chances are, you're going to 'eat' again, and enjoy the taste of food again. Do you think that this is wrong--not only to eat, but also actually enjoy the taste?

In case you don't know it, when you masturbate, your balls and prostate mostly empty out their supply of semen and sperm. But it's like eating in reverse. In the same way that your stomach empties out, and you crave food to refill it, in a converse manner when your balls and prostrate empty out, they start filling up again--your body manufacturing more sperm and semen.

So guess what.... you're going to have a need to excrete that sperm and semen again. This is not an addiction any more than eating is.

In fact, at this point you have four choices:

1. Have sex.
2. Masturbate
3. Wait long enough and have a really erotic wet dream. (Your body will deal with its excess one way or another).
4. Declare yourself celibate and maybe join a religious order.

(Did you even realize that when you have a wet dream, with that "lustful" little dream-fantasy that goes along with it, your body will waste enough sperm to repopulate the earth several hundred times over? Imagine all the men, world-over, having numerous wet-dreams throughout their lives, all down through history.

How many planets on how many galaxys could have been populated with the "wasted" sperm of all of we human men?

That's super-tankers full of sperm and semen, all gone to waste--remember, the amount of sperm on the head of a safety pin could easily repopulate all of Europe.

So again, who set up this "wasteful" system?)

Bottom line, if God isn't worried about all the sperm of guy's wet dreams throughout the ages, I'm sure not going to worry about my small contributions that don't fertilize any eggs.)

Finally, I'm a little concerned about your statement, "...with the intended result of rejuvenating our emotional attachment to each other..."

I would strongly recommend that you stay away from swinging unless your emotional attachment to one another is healthy and happy. A healthy attitude about this would look like, "Hey, hon. This might be fun... are you game?"

At the top of this page in the center in bold print is the phrase: "Swinger Advice." This would definitely be some good, fast reading. I think all of it is spot on.


To close, again, I recommend the book, "Divine Sex." It's a real eye opener about how God regards sex and how he made us to be sexual creatures.... again, His idea, not ours.

[DBL D]

You be WAY Cool, Clutch!

M.D.

[sereneiders]

We swing because we CAN, and NOT because we NEED it. If some of us ever feel this becomes a NEED for whatever reason, then they would stop swinging.

Now, back to you. You're looking at swinging as a way to "solve a problem", should it work out, it'd become a NEED. The fact is, it hardly would work this way, and the worst approach to swinging is to think of it as a recipe to solve ANY problem any of you, or both, may face.

You may think you're "hypersexual", as you said, this was YOUR diagnose. Not knowing you, and since you didn't mention your wife in the original post, I could suppose your wife cannot fulfill your sexual needs. If I were your wife, I may suspect this, wheter I tell you or not. So, you believe that having multiple partners, or finding a more "fit" partner could calm your urges... but in the process, you may be destroying your wife's ego (or what's left from it). From this viewpoint, you're right, this would be ADULTERY in a nice package you label "swinging", from your own prejudices of what's swinging about and what swingers pursues. But... this has nothing to do with swinging.

Now, you're an engineer, right? would you call a medician to build your new three floors house? Because I wouldn't call an enginer to diagnose a health/psychological "problem" (or, as I suspect, a relationship problem). Even more, you'd know abouth the method's value, right? A psichiatrist/psychologist wouldn't dare to attempt to diagnose himself should he suspect he have a problem, just because of the lack of methods involved in such an attempt: he would look for ANOTHER psichatrist or pasychologist to get diagnosed.

So, why don't you face this the right way from the start, and look for a professional diagnose?

I know, you may claim you don't "believe" in psychologists. For me it'd be the same as someone telling me he doesn't believe in engineering. Of course, we may discuss about methods, hard vs. soft science, accuracy, effectivity or whatever else you may want... but once you desn't feel you have any problem deseving to be diagnosed (by yourself), meanwhile, it'd be a fancy way to run away from the real problem and from a less pleasant, perhaps even hurtfull, treatment.

As I see this, you're looking for the easiest way to fulfill your own desires, at the risk of burning up your marriage and your wife.

I often think swinging as an audio power amplifier, and the record you're listening is your marriage. It amplifies everighting, the better you two have, and the worst as well. Those tinny scratches and noices that today bothers you enough as to "look for a solution" would become untolerable once aplified by swinging, and once hearing every detail of those scratches, they would remain being untolerable even if later on you hear them unamplified (i.e., you stop swinging).

So, deal with your problem in the proper way, while being something that just bothers you, and before it becomes untolerable.

[socolais]

Some damn good thoughts and comments here. I'm off to do more reading, thinking and internal exploration - and of course, discussing those ideas with my wife.

"Taken the risk and found ourselves triumphant?" I was referring to the potential risk of opening the marriage and exposing ourselves to the dammaging effets of jealousy and possibly other feelings that work against a happy marriage. If the marriage were weak and many problems lived under the surface, swinging could act as a catalyst and bubble those issues to the surface all at once. That could be overwhelming and lead to a less happy marriage (or worse). Have all your ducks in a row and take the risk, success is likely - but if hidden relationship issues remain unresolved and the opportunities of swinging are sampled, success is unlikely. Success being loosely defined as happier as individuals and together as a couple.

all behavior changes are precipitated by a significant emotional event

There remains the possibility that swinging is not the right thing for us. If it's not, it will loose it's appeal as I continue my exploration. The more philosophical comments I've read in my exploration has lead me to believe there is a strong potential that this would be a good thing for both of us. We have a very strong and stable marriage.

But I'm looking for more than just a fun time with that cute blond over there that strikes my fancy. I'm looking to experience that exhileration being carried over to our familiar waterbed with the sweat moistened sheets and fogged-up headboard mirror. I see on opportunity for a freshness in the way we give pleasure to each other. And while I figure myself to be a fairly skilled lover, there are always new techniques to learn and apply. If we can find a way for both of us to enjoy the swinging encounter and continue with that refreshed energy in the bedroom, then swinging will be the right thing for us

[Chicup]

Part of humanities problem is over thinking primal urges and looking for a higher reason to things that are basic to all living creatures.

In swinging we satisfy the urge for sex with multiple partners while maintaining our relationships by not succumbing to a conflicting primal emotion of jealousy over sex.

Everything else on this subject is just sophistry.