disorganized thoughts on swinging

[interested-05]

Hi bruce, its good to see you arent being offended by the opinions being expressed. it show enough maturity to consider swinging.
Give yourself and especially your wife lots of time to adapt/adjust your way of thinking about sex, sensuality, LOVE, jealousy, wants, desires, lusts, marrriage, and most importantly your relationship, and how each step is progress into what makes your relationship work. IF you allow the sex to become more important than your wife and the relationship you have, you marriage will fail.
View your exploration as individual steps, and you may have a million steps ahead of you, or maye only 50, but each step takes you closer to who you and your wife are as a couple and as individuals. you make take 5 steps forward, 6 steps back, turn left , or right and do a couple circles before you find yourselves as a couple, enjoying the benefits of mutually enjoyed hedonistic sensuality erupting volumes of sperm as your balls empty themselves into the primordial flesh of humanity filling the room with that musky smell of sex, and exhausted bodies.
My first wife , when i replay some of the steps that led to divorce, must have been miles ahead of me on this subject, but was either unwillling to talk to me about it or was too impatient to go into this as a couple. It could have been i was simply a bit "dense" (a real possibility). The big thing there was lack of communication, not a willingness to learn. TAKE Your TIME. Talk to her about your feelings and LISTEN to hers. As you take each step evaluate how each of you feel. then decide which direction the next step will be as a couple, not as Bruce going where he wants to go..

[socolais]

First I want to thank everyone for generously sharing their thoughts with me when I felt so confused. I took some time to meditate and explore myself and my motivations. I came to the realization that I was truely overthinking this whole scene. The beauty and wonderment lies in it's simplicity not it's complexity. Deep analysis is a behavior pattern that has served me well so many times that I'm reluctant to abandon it without just cause. I see now that all the relationship improvements and self improvements I've been reading about are merely wonderful side effects of the refreshed sexual confidence and the freedom to enjoy primative pleasure without the guilt society normally associates with "forbidden fruit".

I can't honestly say I have it completely figured out now, but I think I'm quite a bit closer because all the puzzle pieces are fitting together without the need for my big-ass hammer. I said earlier that I can understand the concept of seperating love from sex and at one level I'm sure I can, but those concepts have been closely paired for so long that in the depth of my mind, there's still a little connectivity. I think back to before we were married and I surely had them seperated when I was working on picking up chicks (although I wasn't as successful as I wanted to be in that department).

I see the pure carnal fun of wild and free "hippy sex" as a breath of fresh air. The siren's song of new and fresh sexual sensations with sexually exciting new playmates is thrilling in an adventurous way - and I'm feeling a bit tookish. I see the simplicity of that and I mentally embrace those opportunities as I imagine them unfolding. The fun of sharing, the confidence in my body image, the confidence in my performance and abilities to give pleasure as well as receive, combine together in my mind and make an exciting encounter. The excitement of the uncertainties invokes a long-forgotten thrilling feeling in my chest.

The opportunity to improve my sexual technique through exposure to new touches appeals strongly to me - but I think it's in the category of wonderful side-effects like so many of the other benefits from swinging. The real value is simply the fun and excitement.

So now, I think I finally understand the folly of my earlier comments about swinging "solving" some undefined "issue". There are really no "issues" that I need a solution for - that's just the way my mind naturally works. I'm in love with the idea of leaving all the classical engineering outside the door and letting the primative urges guide me toward sexual satisfaction and to share that satisfaction energetically with a new playmate.

I'm also comfortable with and excited by the thought that my wife is enjoying her primative urges and finding satisfaction in fresh new ways.

Now that I have seen the light, I can better follow the trail for myself and help my wife understand the opportunity. We'll make a decision together once we're both comfortable with it. I'm not in a hurry though, just discussing this has really boosted the energy level in our sex and I feel closer to her than I've felt in years. This is too damn good to just rush past without enjoying it fully. We're acting like a couple of newly-weds. We're consiously touching each other in ways that are less familiar. We're flirting and laughing and having tons of fun. Sometimes, I wonder how the hell can it get any better than this.

and again, thanks to everyone for your patience and generousity

[The Fuse]

socolais,

Best of luck. I echo the other advice you have gotten here-- just try and relax, and not think quite so much! I know that can be difficult, but some things really are simple at their core. Just take care of each other first, stay safe and enjoy.

[clutch]

"This is too damn good to just rush past without enjoying it fully."

Spot on! You hit the nail on the head. If only one could generalize this to one's job, social life, children, everything....

[socolais]

Let's see how close this may be to reality.....

I think swinging for me might be best enjoyed at a small houseparty. Two to maybe six or eight couples, most everyone knows each other in one way or another. Everyone arrives at the location sexually charged and excited about the playtime. We enjoy snacks and beverages with some flirting till all the expected players arrive. We participate in games or other activity to invoke the mating rituals. This is where we mutually select playmates and begin to engage in foreplay, migrating to heavier foreplay as the sexual tension builds. Then pair off based on preferences or prior arrangements and bring the party to its first climax. Based on the preferences of the players, there may be additional sexual activity. [cue the clock scene to indicate the passage of time] Wake up, play some more (most likely a little quicky to take advantage of the morning wood). Get dressed and go to Denny's for breakfast. Then afterwards, say our good-bys with a friendly grope in the parking lot. Maybe return home with our respective partner for some hell-raisin vanilla whoopie and a smile that lasts most of the week.

Playing smart all the time, keeping tabs on the spousal unit for general security and watching other players to basically keep with the pace of the collective and enjoy the group dynamics.

I hope that didn't sound too much like Marlin Perkins and yes, I understand there are many variations on that theme and other themes exist. I'd like to get an idea of some of the popular themes and how they are likely to play out.

I can see a lot of fun in a "tentparty" (actual tent not required). I envision some secluded camp site where non-participants would be unlikely to be offended by the overt sexual activity. Perhaps activities could continue for the duration of the 3-day weekend. Folks comming and going as their schedules and preferences dictate.

I see the swing dynamics as very similar to playing chess. When we always play against the same opponent, it can always be fun even if our skill level progression diminishes over time. A variety of opponents keeps us on our toes because of the unpredictability of the opponent and that keeps the thrill in the game.

Bruce

[The Fuse]

Dude, you are thinking way too much.

If your expectations are this specific, you will never be happy.

Please do a search on "How to get started", "how to meet people", "what to expect" or other threads where you can see what the experience has been like for other people.

[good times]

Originally Posted by socolais

I hope that didn't sound too much like Marlin Perkins and yes, I understand there are many variations on that theme and other themes exist. I'd like to get an idea of some of the popular themes and how they are likely to play out.

Gee Bruce, I have to say that sounds more like a script to a porn flick than any "theme" I have ever been involved with in swinging. Of course that is probably because the logistics of setting up something like you describe would be nearly impossible to work out. So I would have to say that the scenario you describe is not even close to any reality that I have ever experienced.

I have to agree with what The Fuse said, you really are over thinking this.

[socolais]

The consensus appears to be that I'm still overthinking - damn, I thought I was getting close. You guys make a great sounding board and I appreciate it.

No script that I've ever seen before, I just dreamed it up. But the actual choreography was not the main point. Perhaps I shuda thrown in a couple of young single guys calling Ralph on the ole porcelain cellphone after drinking too much.

Can anyone offer something that might approximate a reasonable "theme" or "script"? The play-by-play narratives that I've found have been more lick-suck-thrust centric.

[DBL D]

Bruce, I know a few engineers...and they know how to separate Work and Play. (Everyone overanalyzes at some point. Don't think you are blessed because of your career choice.) That is what swinging is...Play. You are making it seem like work. Maybe that's because you are still in the process of trying to convince yourself, or your wife of its merits.

My wife used to hate it when I'd tell her that she had to "relax", etc. The whole thing hinges on how your relationship is with your wife. Swinging will, if nothing else, help you know yourself better ande know your spouse better too.

We all want to know what makes each other tick. When I brought up the idea of "playing outside of marriage", it was mostly from a selfish point of view. I was frustrated with MY sexual experience...not OUR sexual relationship. In fact our sex was the best it had been in years when the topic came up (from me). Now I understand a lot more than I did. It's getting better, but there are still times when I see her as someone from, say, "Venus" while I am from "Mars".

Do not use swinging to fix things in the relationship. Think of it as playtime....get away from the idea that it is Adultery! The definition that you gave (or someone gave) that adultery is sexual relations outside the marriage may have come from a religious point of view. A view that is not really biblical, but their interpretation of it.

You are chillin'...but chill some more.

Male D

[good times]

Originally Posted by socolais

Can anyone offer something that might approximate a reasonable "theme" or "script"? The play-by-play narratives that I've found have been more lick-suck-thrust centric.

I think the reason that no one is forthcoming with a theme or script is because there really isn't one. Sure, everyone has an idea of what they want to do when they go to a club or party, but as soon as you meet another couple that you find attractive enough to have sex with, that pretty much goes out the window. The reason for that is that the couple you meet have ideas of their own about how the evening should progress, and those ideas are as numerous as their are swingers. So the way it basically works is you go to the club/party, and if you hit the jackpot that night and meet another couple that all four of you find each other attractive enough to have sex with, You talk enough to make sure everyone is on the same page about what happens next. Then you have sex and go home. At least 90% of the time, that is all their is to it in our experience.

[socolais]

Sometimes I'm kinda slow about things that don't have very exact instructions and specific criteria and I do have a few creative moments that I like to enjoy. Sometimes when I'm cooking, I'll just open the fridge and make something from whatever ingredients I happen to find. It's always good and sometimes great, even more, it's never the same twice. The more I read your responses, the more I see the light about the spontinaity. I understand that even though I've never been nominated for "Mr. Spontinaity".

The scripts, themes and narratives help me wrap my mind around the typical activities and I can internally address my comfort factor. I'm comming to grips with the concept that the activities between playmates are like any other sexual session where things just flow naturally and everyone enjoys themselves. I think I really wouldn't want it any other way. Sometimes, it sucks being a "planner".

I think my priorities have been revised again. All this sexy talk we've been doing in bed at night has led to some of the most fantastic sex we've experienced in years. This has pretty much squelched that internal "longing for adventure" that was possessing me so strongly and for so long. I'm having the adventure almost every night with our refreshed enthusiasm for each other and hightened communications. We are both satisfied that exploring lifestyle options has led to this level of fulfillment. There's a good possibility that we'll be looking more agressively for playmates in the future.

Again, my heartfelt thanks to everyone active on this forum for the level of open sharing and friendly generosity. I'll lurk here a bit and post a comment every once in a while. I'm beginning to think of yall as friends.

[sereneiders]

It is a good idea to try to foresight how things could evolve as to control a situation. In several scenarios, an script fits because it would be the option giving you most of the control, however, for a script to fit, the context have to be pretty deterministic.

Swinging isn't a deterministic activity, even when everyone involved may perfectly know what they want and what they doesn't want, even whe everyone involved were able to express and make each other understand this (which, by itself, would be a huge assumption), there exist a lot of factors involved beyond our control.

When you think of suh scenarion in advance, you owe your toughts and fantasies, all of those factors can be controlled by you, so the script seems to make sense and seems to be feasible. It is the reality the one making our scripts bite the dust.

However, this doesn't mean you have to give up yourself to the fate, and just let things happen. Instead of attempting to make scripts, most swinger take another approach of setting some loose guidelines, and define the limits, the boundaries for their confort level, and when we play, we're supposed to stick to the most restricted boundaries from the ones provided by everyone involved.

Yet, this could be ineffective, because it may happen for someone that he/she was unable to foresight all and every scenario as to reasure the boundaries sets covers every angle. Shit happens anyway, but again, we may even set guidelines to deal with those unwanted outcome, like "should shit happens, what should we do about it?".

This is way less "safe" than following an script, but it is a way more realistic approach to deal with an non deterministic scenario.

[socolais]

sereneiders, thank you for those thoughts, that made a lot of sense to me and helped me understand some of the interaction aspects better.

I fully understand that the clubbing scene is like a swinging lottery - just the same as going to a vanilla sports bar and trying to make a connection with someone in the crowd. Sometimes ya get lucky and other times ya go home alone or perhaps "settle for someone that not quite as close a match as was hoped". I'm not so sure this opportunity appeals strongly to me - I'll have to think on it some more and maybe give it a try later on when WE are ready.

I easily envision a house party as being desirable for my imagined preferences. I think a well prepared host/hostess would have a loosely bound script available to deploy if they percieved folks were interested and the spirit of the party would benefit. Sure maybe everyone is not playing the same game - some folks are in the hot tub while others may be playing strip poker. Some activities take some planning and preparation while others may easily be spontaneous like strip horse shoes or something. Yeah, when I read back over my previous post, I see where folks could see that description as both inflexible and idealistic in a June Cleaver sorta way. Perhaps the more the participants know each other and are comfortable getting to the action, the less burden on the hosts because the party would basically take care of itself.

I guess it's kinda like another thread I was reading here about how some folks prefer the one night stand approach to swinging. I see the appeal there, but I think I wouldn't want it to be OUR predominate swinging pattern. Good food, good friends, good sex.........

[interested-05]

let me suggest something,
Whne you and your wife get to a point where you feel you may be ready for your next step, choose a club that is off premises. Off premises being a party where the sex doesn't happen in the party room, but if you meet a couple you are interested in you go to whereevr makes the most sense i.e.< a hotel, home, their house or anywhere that is right for everyone concerned.
If you feel yourselves a bit stressed by whats going on, you can leave w/o feeling pressured. Plan on going to a party, just to get a feel for how people in the lifestyle meet w/o necessarily planning on getting any action. just meeting and talking to couples, seeing how your wife feels, pay a lot of attention to her and what she is feeling or it may be your last visit.
keep in mind what is frequently said around here, the men bring the women but the women bring them back. If this is right for you there is no need to jump in over your heads. It doesnt need to be sink or swim, get used to the feel of the water, wade in and eventually you have no need to feel the bottom of the pool to enjoy it.

[JustAskJulie]

Socolais, I thought this was an interesting thread. I'm wondering how you would reply to it, if you came across it now and someone else had posted it.....