Want to swing but now that the opportunity is there, getting nervous

[johnnyrotten35]

Hi All,

My wife and I have been reading these message boards for a while -- what a great resource!!! -- but this is my first message. We've been seriously considering swinging for a while now, specifically adding a second guy to the mix. Our friends would be STUNNED, but this turns both of us on immensely, and we’ve been discussing it with varying degrees of seriousness for years. In the past it was me pushing, but recently she has warmed up to the idea (if you consider the surface of the sun “warm”)! We’ve met a nice, grounded and seemingly safe guy, and this wild fantasy is quickly becoming a wild reality.

Except for one thing, that is...me! The same guy who has been pushing this for years is now stuck in neutral, filled with insecurity and doubt about the whole thing. The paradox is this: the same things that make this guy an ideal candidate – good looks, good personality, very considerate and VERY well hung – are what are making me nervous and reluctant.

Let me explain... I’m a decent-looking, very considerate lover with a decidedly average six inches, but I pride myself on being a confident guy who knows what he’s good at and how to use what he’s got. I'm pretty sure that in our 13 years together, my wife has been very satisfied with our sex life, as have I. That said, I’m finding myself in the unfamiliar territory of being damn intimidated by the thought of having sex with my wife at the same time as this handsome, hung guy. We both know and understand this for what it is – very thrilling and very sexy and VERY tertiary to our core relationship – but the ideal fantasy involving my better half as the simultaneously wonderful mother, hot wife and sexy slut seems to be slipping away as I’m confronted with the reality of the situation.

We have been communicating with each other wonderfully, and our sex has been hotter and better than ever before...even before having kids! She has reassured me over and over that there is no one else that she'd rather be with -- fat 8" cock or not -- and I believe that *she* believes that...but how could she know at this point?

I’m not saying the idea isn’t totally hot for me -- it is! I would MUCH rather see my beautiful wife enjoying herself with a handsome, respectful and well-endowed man than some...um...“lesser” guy. Of course, she’ll enjoy it much more that way, and that’s ultimately what it’s all about. I’m not afraid that he will “steal” her or anything, but I do worry that we’ll be opening a Pandora’s box where she’ll be less than satisfied with me in the future.
Ultimately I know that this is about my own petty male insecurities, but that isn’t making it any easier to move forward. And I really, really want to move forward.

I guess what I’m looking for is some counsel. I know there are no guarantees about any of this, but I’d love to hear from guys who felt similarly “before” and to know how you handled the “after”. Was it good?
Bad? Indifferent? Was it as big a deal as you thought? I’d also love to hear the woman’s perspective. What have your reactions been to other, “bigger” guys?

Anyway, thanks for reading, and especially to those of you who take the time to respond!

[Mochafae]

Sounds like you may need to work a few things out first. Good luck...

[TwoLittleBirds]

Hi Johnny.
This may not be 100 percent a question of swinging. Maybe 50/50. My question (as a fellow married man who can be objective as an outsider) is, have you discussed the above with your wife?

Not the hot, sexy fantasy part. I mean your concerns and fears that have cropped up lately. Your post (above) was very well written. If you can communicate that with your wife, and have an open dialogue about it, you may get somewhere.

You may even decide it's better for this to remain a pillow talk fantasy. Or swinging is something, as a couple, you'll keep an open mind about for a try some time in the future. Or you may talk and be ready for a wild threesome! Talk first. And I don't think the potential swing partner needs to be involved in the initial conversation.

If you have doubts, hold off. It is NOT worth ruining a good, 13 year relationship. That's one of the few things more important than good sex! Seriously, if you have doubts, wait. Don't let the fantasy overwhelm reality. Don't let your groin rule your heart or your head. Disappointing someone's genitals is one thing, right, but a broken heart is much worse.

A communicative husband from
TwoLittleBirds

[intuition897]

Hi johnny, Welcome to the board!

I'm glad to hear that both you and your wife are surfing the board and talking things through. It's amazing what communication makes possible.

I think your concerns are extremely common. This is exactly why it's called Pandora's Box. Once the question has been asked, it demands an answer, otherwise it slowly eats away at your relationship. But this is exactly what makes the rewards so...rewarding. The question of whether or not you are truly the one your wife or husband wants to be with is one that haunts everyone, I think. Most people are satisfied with being able to say, "I'm 99.9% sure that I'm the one he/she wants to be with." I'm not, and neither is Mr. intuition. I WANT that 100%. I don't want to just think so, I want to know so. And I want him to know it, too. I want our trust to be absolute in this respect. And you can't really get that 100% without risking something major. So we did, and we found that there is no one that we have found yet that can rival our own partner. It doesn't matter how gorgeous or charming or HUNG the other guy is. He still can't make her feel like she "coming home" in his arms. Nothing equals that deep feeling of belonging when you reconnect after playing with other couples. She's right. There IS no comparison. It's like comparing apples to oranges. She might touch his body that night, but you're the only one whose soul she can touch the way she does. Do you really think she'd give that up? For two inches of flesh? I guess some people do, but they are fools. It sounds like your wife is no fool.

Let her read what you wrote. She needs to understand what it is you are feeling, so that she can do everything she can to avoid hurting you. Once you both understand one another, and know where those sore spots are, you are that much closer to being able to trust each other to not purposely cause one another pain. It will be that much easier to be realistic with yourself in one of those freak-out moments: "Come on johnny, don't be stupid; she's moaning and screaming because she's really enjoying the guys' body, not becuase she's wishing you were more like him. You KNOW she wouldn't think that, because she's in love with you."

Want to know what she's really thinking? She's thinking how amazingly cool it is that she has a husband who so completely understands who she really is, and is so okay with it that he's willing to give her the freedom to be that person. She believes she's the luckiest woman in the world, because you've figured out what really sweeps a woman off her feet: selfless, unconditional love. She sees that you love her more than you love yourself, because you are thinking of her happiness ahead of your own. Your own happiness does not exist, it is irrelevant in this equation. In fact, your happiness hinges on hers. This kind of chivalry is almost unheard of these days, but it will turn a woman into a puddle every time! It is the ultimate romantic expression, and sure as hell beats 12 dozen roses.

Just talk to her. Tell her what you told us, and see what happens.

[intensity_too]

Great response intuition. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[MoonLightKiss]

Well put Intuition!! I am with Intensity on this one, all warm and fuzzy...

Intuition is right Johnnyrotten...Speak to your wife, and let her read what you wrote...I am sure the both of you are going to be fine...

[Pepper & Drew]

Originally Posted by johnnyrotten35

I guess what I’m looking for is some counsel. I know there are no guarantees about any of this, but I’d love to hear from guys who felt similarly “before” and to know how you handled the “after”. Was it good?
Bad? Indifferent? Was it as big a deal as you thought? I’d also love to hear the woman’s perspective. What have your reactions been to other, “bigger” guys?

As Intuition said, I'm pretty sure every couple that gets in the lifestyle has a similiar concern, whether it's worrying whether another woman can give a better blowjob, or penis size, or whatever. However, if you think of it from a practical perspective, your wife didn't marry you for your penis size (I'm pretty sure....it's a pretty flimsy thing to build a life on ), so it's a pretty safe bet that a larger penis is not going to come between you and your wife.

I tend to think men worry more about penis size than women do, since most women know that you can get pleasure from many different sizes. I tend to like "average" the best, as the larger the guy is, the greater the likelihood for things to be uncomfortable. Sure, I've played with men who are larger than my husband, but it's just different, not better.

I think you'll find that your worries are unfounded, but human nature doesn't keep us from worrying about it. Good luck!

Pepper

[LOL_OMG]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

Sure, I've played with men who are larger than my husband, but it's just different, not better.

I think you'll find that your worries are unfounded, but human nature doesn't keep us from worrying about it.

Woman here - Pepper is totally right! Nobody knows how to make me moan as well as the Mr, and nobody can fuck me the way he can.

Since you're new I would recommend going to a local club if you can. Check out the people and reactions there. Hopefully they have a group room where the two of you can just observe. You will start to feel much more comfortable with the fact that it's just bodies and sex....what you bring home will be so much better

Mrs

[Tantra]

Male half here. I have similar concerns to the original poster. I know without a doubt that my wife chose me for more than my penis and we are very happy together and are very grateful that we are able to have such a wonderful open relationship. However, I sometimes still feel a little insecure - and it's not necessarily looks or size that triggers it. I don't fear being left or replaced, but I fear not being good enough in private if she's had much much better. I feel that our own love making will be less special because of experimentation with others who may be far superior (skill, stamina, etc.) that my efforts will always seem second rate. It's subtle but it's real for me, and I have to remind myself that these are my feelings alone and don't have much of a basis in reality. This is a work in progress - sometimes the feelings are strong and other times it's as if I cannot conceive why I would even think such silly things. I guess that's the way it goes - I have a feeling that in my case these feelings will recede with time and experience. For the record, my wife has not been with another man except soft swap - she's told me that I give great head. Only one guy has been better - but he's one of my best buds and I know he's an eager beaver who loves to please!

I've had extensive conversations with my wife about this and she compares it like this - what if another woman is tighter or has more vaginal muscular control or moves better, rocks my world, etc. etc. Will that make me like sex with my wife any less? I can honestly say no. Sex is wonderful with my wife and when making love we go far beyond just the physical act. I'm sure that there's another woman who's "better" at the act of sex than my wife, and it would be fun to fuck her, but I honestly it would not change how I love to have sex with my wife. It would not make me want her less. Thus, if I can say this from my perspective, I must give my wife the same respect regarding her feelings.

[LOL_OMG]

Okay just one more quick interjection here. Women are mostly attached to someone by the emotions. Kindness, unselfeshness, fun and honesty are a much stronger bond than sex.

Therefore, to possibly ease your insecurities you must ask yourself what kind of a man you are to your woman. If you have those qualities even the ghost of Ronald Reagan could not tear that down. If you're an asshole, well, you're on your own

Mrs

[johnnyrotten35]

First: This board is AWESOME! These are all wonderful and MUCH appreciated responses!

Second: Intuition -- wow, wow, WOW! Very well put. Amazingly, Mrs. Rotten and I had almost *exactly* this conversation this morning, even before reading your reply.

See, I'm the analytical one. I need to work through every possible situation, reach as many logical conclusions as I can and evaluate the results. Yeah, I know...I must be the life of the party! :rollseyes: Actually, I'm not at all risk-averse, I just believe that knowing the possible outcomes before you go into something better prepares you for the process and enables you to more fully enjoy (or avoid) certain situations.

I think what's freaking me out so much right now is exactly what you said...that swinging is inherantly a very serious, very exciting question that demands an answer. I'm not all that concerned about what the answer will be -- I am supremely confident in our relationship and our place with each other. Rather, I am concerned about the stakes; they're so high! That being the case, why would you, I, or anyone risk it? Of course the answer is exactly what you said -- the rewards can be so much greater than the risks. That's something I used to know when we were just fantasizing, but I seem to have forgotten since Mr. Bigdick burst on the scene! (no pun intended)

In all seriousness, it's not so much the bigger dick thing (although I'm not going to lie and say that it doesn't bother me a little), it's the threat that his bigger dick possibly represents. Ironically, that's also what excites the hell out of both of us! Therein lies the paradox.

That said, I have talked to her at length about this, and she assures me that I am the coolest, most understanding, most amazing husband in the world for even entertaining the possibility. Present company excluded, of course! She appreciates this whole thing as a gift, something we can give to each other and both enjoy before putting it (him) away for another time. And I *do* want to give her that gift... By taking it, she will return it to me tenfold. I know that. I guess part of my own personal process is asking people who actually know -- people who are already on the other side of this deep ocean -- what they think and how they felt when they were in my shoes. And it really, really helps. Thanks.

Did I mention how awesome this board is? Okay, so I guess it's time to jump in and start swimming. CANNONBALL!!!

[LOL_OMG]

Okay, we want to meet Mrs Rotten now!!!

Mrs LOL

[intuition897]

You and your wife seem to have pretty good communication. That's great! And we're looking forward to meeting her on the board, too.

I think I tend to be very analytical, too. I've never had stitches or broken a bone (yet). I don't like to jump into the water without knowing how deep it is. So the idea of just trusting Mr. intuition to not hurt me when I make myself that vulnerable was VERY scary. I know, I know, you're supposed to trust your spouse with tyour life, yada, yada, yada... But the thing is that truly trusting another human being is not something that comes naturally. At least not to an adult who has learned through experience that, more often than not, people just plain suck. It's hard to trust someone to love you that much.

I guess we just need to ask ourselves, is our spouse with us because of what we can do for them? Or because of the way we make them feel emotionally? I think you'll love finally being able to rid yourselves of this bit of nagging doubt, and step on through to where you just don't have to worry about silly things like jealousy or cheating anymore. I know that for Mr. intuition and I it's been wonderful, although it does have its drawbacks; suddenly you find that you just can't relate to other people's jealous ways anymore, and when a friend expects your sympathy when he describes how his wife was eyeing up the waiter and how he'd kill the SOB if he even glanced at her...you just can't understand his way of thinking anymore. You'll want to tell him to grow up and get over it..

I'm afraid you're standing at the threshold right now. You both see just how much you have to lose, and it's come down to a leap of faith. No one can make that leap for you. You're worried that this will ruin your relationship. Let me share something: nothing ruins a relationship except the people who are in it. Other people can't ruin your relationship unless you let them. For Mr. and I, we found out that sex and lovemaking are two totally different things. Sex is just good clean fun if it's done recreationally, but if you use it to communicate how you feel about one another, it's lovemaking. Let's look at it this way: She might turn into a puddle of goo if her favorite music artist sang one of his top 10 hits just for her, because he does have an amazing voice, and she gets a front row seat. She's just grinning from ear to ear. But while it was a really cool experience, what does she remember most? She remembers that that song wasn't written for her. He might be very skilled, and it was fun, but when you get home with her, it all goes away. Because what she wants more than anything is the sound of your voice, telling her that you love her, that you value her above anything else in this world. Telling her that you are in love with the beautiful person that she is. You might sing slightly off-key, but she doesn't notice. She loves that you sing off-key...because that's you. And she loves YOU. She'd take that ridiculous caterwauling serenade under her window that time that you had a fight and she wouldn't let you back in the house...and so you sang to her until she let you back in because you were waking up the neighbours with the noise. Or the time she was so sick and you sang her to sleep with a lullaby as she lay in your arms. She'd take your voice, as imperfect as it may be, over any other, any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It's just scary, because this is where she's going to prove that one way or the other.

Man, I just love hear myself talk, don't I? lol

Say hi to the Mrs. for us, eh?

[Edison Carter]

Susan here--In all my group playing I've had some incredible fucks and I'm talking paint melting off the walls, sex so intense that the neighbors need a cigarette and more, but noone makes love to me like my husband and I'd trade it for nothing. I'm expecting your wife to be the same.

[missyrotten]

Hello Everyone,

Missyrotten finally here! We truly appreciate everyone's perspective on Johnny's post. Based on your replies, it seems that swinging has had a positive affect on your relationships... and that is what Johnny and I hope for if we take the plunge/leap as you've put it so well. As you can see, Johnny is a great communicator and I have the gift of gab too, so we exhautively talk about everything.... but the end result is a decision that we neither of us feels persuaded into - whether it's buying a car or swinging!

As Johnny stated, it's literally been years worth of discussion, with me as the cautious objector until recently. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that we didn't have an actual person in mind. It was left to debate the "morality" of an intangible fantasy and it was safe for me to play along, but tell him that I probably wouldn't do it. The idea turned me on, but my own inhibitions kept me from opening my mind up to it. However, I now realize that a large part of my hangups -- which I have discovered myself through hours of talking with Johnny about this in recent weeks -- had to do with allowing myself to fall into a relationship rut where I was taking Johnny for granted and getting defensive about his needs without being open to how to really meet his needs, and ours collectively as a couple.

It's like a huge lightbulb has gone off. Swinging isn't about Johnny being an horny guy with a big sex drive. It's about arriving at a new level of closeness and trust in our relationship where we are safe to be who we are without repercussions. The walls I built came out in so many dysfunctional ways - that I now look back on and realize - and Johnny has been incredibly patient leading up to this self-discovery. To be able to share that level of deep commitment with your spouse is sacred. It's that deep for me now and I am the luckiest woman to have a husband as amazing as Johnny to have that depth of relationship with.

Ladies - I couldn't agree with all of you more about your thoughts on being with another man. No matter how different they are (size or whatever), it will never be better than your partner for a million reasons. Johnny is my soulmate. Period. Nobody will ever be as sexy or desirable as Johnny is as a result.

Intuition, I love your analogy about the song... just so happens that Johnny is a drummer in a successful band. What more can a girl ask for when she has a true rennaisance man?!

Your insight has helped us further explore things and affirms all of our talks together. Thanks VERY much and thanks for being patient with this long post!! -- Missy