Finally considering swinging in order to save my marriage

[steyr]

Hello all.

What did we do before the internet, huh?

Anyway - I'd like some newbie advice if possible. This will be a long first post - hope that's okay with y'all.

Situation:

My wife and I have been married almost 4 years. We've known each other for 15 years, and dated as high school kids.

For several years when we weren't a "couple", my wife had a boyfriend, and they were swingers. She's had plenty of experiences with it - both with men and women.

I, on the other hand, have had NO experience, other than one time watching my wife being sexually intimate with another woman, and a few times doing "body shots" and "nipple shots" with friends. I participated willingly in the body shots.

When we married, she said she had no interest in that lifestyle anymore. But turns out, she does.

I have generally objected to it, feeling that it's "not who I am". But truth be told, my insecurity about her sexual desires for other people is tearing our marriage apart. It's not that she asks me to do it, but I just know she wants to and it causes me to doubt our relationship, and her devotion to me. This leads to arguments about unrelated topics, in my subconcious attempt to mold her.

whew - that was intense.

It has come now to a point where all the cards are on the table. She's admitted to her desires. And we both realize that if she is forced to squash those needs, our marriage is doomed.

So I have decided that I love this woman enough to try anything to make our marraige work. Including swinging and alternative sexual lifestyles. Whatever she wants. It's not just "giving in" - I have felt like such an idiot about it for some time now. I mean, here is my AWESOME wife, just dying to let me fuck other women, or have threesomes, and I'm feeling wishy-washy about it. I've felt like much less of a man because of it, furthering my insecurity about myself and our relationship.

I want to do this. I want to ENJOY this. My insecurity is the source of 99% of our relationship problems, and if I can get over this and be free and open sexually, I know the insecurity will fade. I love my wife dearly, and she loves me the same. I truly believe that I can do this; separate love and sex, and just enjoy other people for the sake of sexual outlet, but still make LOVE to my wife. I don't want to look back 5 years from now and consider myself a fool for not at least trying this. To save my marriage, as well as for myself; for the experience.

But I admit that I am scared. At least nervous. Of course I have fantasies about other women and threesomes, etc., but I've never felt that I'd act on it. I'm a very private person sexually - I even hide evidence of masturbation from my wife. I don't know why - traditional values, I guess. Our sex life is good - she's gotten me to open up a lot more; talk dirty, tell her what I want, etc. But I still get that uneasy feeling in my stomach about certain things. Even if she exposes her breasts to friends or has liquor licked off her nipples, I feel uncomfortable for the first minute or two. then it fades and I'm okay with it. But the shock value at first is tough for me.

I desperately WANT to get over this hurdle, and be a very sexually open person, especially with my wife. I've never looked down on the swinging lifestyle, I just felt that it wasn't for me. But I want to get over that, and have some damn fun in life!

She thinks - and I agree - that perhaps a threesome with another woman would be a good first step. We're going to Vegas next month, and have considered heading to one of the "ranches" out of town and experiencing this with a "professional" so there are no strings attached (i.e., not a friend or acquaintance, etc.). But I know that couples clubs might be in our future, and I haven't worked up to that yet.

Thanks to those who have read this far - I know it's a novel. But any encouragement or advice would be well received.

Nice to find you all.

[Merric]

Whew, Wow, let’s hold off here, step back and grab our breath.

First off that has got to be some of the most intense stuff I’ve ever read. Second though it won’t make you feel better I’m glad I’m not you. Though I have to admit I can only go by what I have read here and my interpretation of it which in the end might well be flawed.

Now I don’t want you to think I’m an expert swinger because I’m not. I’m one of the least experienced here, limited to soft swinging and of having had sex in front of other people who were also having sex. Now as to the stuff I’ve read from you beneath the veneer it sounds to me like you are actually very miserable with the whole thing. I mean what the f***k, this quote below from your post says it all, and sounds like one of the reasons you married her.

“When we married, she said she had no interest in that lifestyle anymore.”

Far as I can see that should have been it. No more swinging. While as for her she should have known better than to make such a statement. Once you swing you can’t go back. Your mind simply can no longer come to grips with monogamy anymore. I mean most certainly that’s how it is for me.

Yet just the same if she loves you as much as you think she does she will give it up because it’s hurting you. I mean it reads very clearly to me at least, that you are devastated when she makes you watch a man lick bourbon or whatever from her breasts. I mean that sucks. So how much more agonizing do you think it’s going to be when she forces you to watch her have intercourse with another man!?

Face it when she married you she also lied to you. Whether purposely or with the belief she was telling the truth I can’t say. I only have what you’ve presented here. But with that and for the rest, far as I can tell all you’re doing is evading the issues and making excuses. Over all I have you pegged as a man who’s been blinded by your wife’s beauty and charms so that you’ve been cuckolded. While it sounds as if she might be taking even a small degree of pleasure from your suffering. And if it doesn’t get fixed soon it’ll only get worse. Take my word for it if you truly are not happy with this then seek counseling with her, a trail separation, or get a divorce, heal then find someone else. Because I strongly feel again from my interpretation here that even if she agrees to be faithful to just you alone, she will more than likely wind up cheating on you.

I mean let’s face it she already has cheated on you by the evidence you’ve given here. Espeically since she told you she would give the lifestyle up for you then didn't. So take my word for it there are millions of other women out there every bit as beautiful as the one you now have. And you can always find one who shares the same ideas of morality you do.

Okay now having said that all I can say to the contrary is I might not have been getting from your missal what you truly intended. But to me it seemed I was reading straight through to your subconscious where the facts lay. I sincerely wish you the best either way you take though. And that is from the heart.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Merric

Once you swing you can’t go back. Your mind simply can no longer come to grips with monogamy anymore.

Well, I don't know about that Merric. Granted I wouldn't - couldn't! - go back to being monogamous just for the sake of being monogamous, but if our relationship evolved back to monogamy (which I'm convinced it will some day), then so be it. It will be a matter of active choice.

Originally Posted by Merric

Over all I have you pegged as a man who’s been blinded by your wife’s beauty and charms so that you’ve been cuckolded. While it sounds as if she might be taking even a small degree of pleasure from your suffering.

I'd have to disagree with this...at least until we get the Mrs.'s side of things.

Originally Posted by Merric

...Because I strongly feel again from my interpretation here that even if she agrees to be faithful to just you alone, she will more than likely wind up cheating on you.

I mean let’s face it she already has cheated on you by the evidence you’ve given here. Espeically since she told you she would give the lifestyle up for you then didn't. So take my word for it there are millions of other women out there every bit as beautiful as the one you now have. And you can always find one who shares the same ideas of morality you do.

Now I'm not sure we can conclude that Mrs. Steyr was in fact cheating. I didn't see anything about her actually fooling around behind Mr. Steyr's back. I doubt she's rubbing his nose in it; she just wants to expose him to her world, bring him out of his shell. My God, she wants to SHARE this part of herself with him! I'm guessing she's doing this to help him, not hurt him. She seems honest enough to me. Perhaps she did lie to herself (and to you, too Steyr) back at the beginning of the marriage. Perhaps she truly believed she could cram her sexuality in the monogamy box for you. But we're seeing now that being untrue to one's self never works in the long run. If she's not cut out for monogamy, and you are not cut out for NON-monogamy, then either you need to go your separate ways or one person must change. Perhaps I'm a tad biased but I'm thinking it's easier to expand a closed mind than try to close a mind that has already been opened. You can't un-know something. But you CAN discover new things!

I like the fact that Mrs. Steyr has been sexually open with you, Steyr (ie: the body/nipple shots, dirty talk, etc). I also like that she has admitted to you and to herself that she misses the lifestyle. It seems to me that she intends well, and desires an honest and intimate relationship with you.

Originally Posted by Steyr

But truth be told, my insecurity about her sexual desires for other people is tearing our marriage apart. It's not that she asks me to do it, but I just know she wants to and it causes me to doubt our relationship, and her devotion to me. This leads to arguments about unrelated topics, in my subconcious attempt to mold her.

Steyr, it sounds to me like you're having that knee-jerk reaction that most people do: sexual desire for others must = emotional desire for other people...right? She likely has fond memories of swinging, because it IS a lot of fun! It is a very intense and erotic experience, precisely because it is such a volatile activity. Nothing exposes one's tender pink underbelly quite like the notion of your partner having sex with someone else. It's, like, THE worst thing that could possibly happen to a couple, right? But what makes swinging so cool is that we've taken the tiger and pulled it's teeth. It's like the bully who says 'Gimme your lunch money or else!'; the swinger has confronted the bully, gotten right up in his face and demanded 'OR ELSE WHAT??' and the bully stutters and stammers, finally running away...because we called his bluff. That's about it. We just got sick of running from our bully. We pull down the covers, walk across the room, and flip on the bedroom light, and the monster in the closet becomes a stuffed toy. We shine the light under the bed and find nothing but dustbunnies. There IS no bogeyman...just the ones we create for ourselves.

Honey, the fact that she's attracted to other people just makes her human. What? You think a piece of metal on your finger and a few pretty words are going to amputate a part of your sexuality? I guess a lot of folks do, and are very happy doing so as an expression of love, but I don't want my husband to butcher any part of himself for my sake. I married him whole, I want to keep him whole...in all ways. He's a virile, sexy, masculine man, very sexually powerful, I want him to really savour what it is to be this man that he is. I am so in love with him, that I want him to feel, for himself, what I see him as: a very desirable, very attractive, very magnetic man. I want him to really feel that power that he exerts over me, and I want him to realize that it's not just me and my "biased" opinion (as in, you're always a very special person to your Mom). If he doesn't believe me, then I WANT him to get a second opinion. Or a third, or fourth...maybe a fifth! I really do want him to believe in himself this way.

Try not to be too goal-oriented in exploring the lifestyle. It's as individual as a fingerprint and if you're only ever comfortable with soft-swinging (sort of what you've experienced so far), then that's perfectly fine...as long as it works for the both of you. You're going to need to really bare your souls with one another. The more uncomfortable you are with the topic, the better! If the talk comes easily, then you're not digging deep enough. I'd suggest by starting out asking a question, and when you get the answer...ask "Why?". Lather, rinse and repeat. Keep asking Why and you'll continue to peel off the layers of onion skin. And like peeling any onion, it'd be a good idea ot have a box of tissues handy. You will likely feel emotionally drained, and you may have some tough questions to answer and decisions to make, but if you love one another - truly, truly love one another - something will work itself out. And you will feel closer to one another than you ever thought humanly possible.

Just remember: if you are uncomfortable with something, if it hurts you, you need to stop and make the necessary adjustments. You can't push through the pain. This isn't like having a muscle cramp while jogging that you can just "jog through"; emotional pain in swinging is more like an infection. If left untreated, it spreads until the whole system is sick with it. Even if it started out as a simple paper cut. So just pay attention to yourself and to her, keep track of your emotional inventory, and work at this slowly, communicating your comfort level clearly all the way. Best of luck to you both!

P.S.>> We'd love to hear from Mrs. Steyr, too!

[Merric]

intuition897 much thanks, glad I could help invoke a more positive viewpoint from the other side of the coin. Glad that as I could see the one side you could see the other. And as I said my views were only based on the information given. Between us and the others here I hope steyr can find the most comfortable place in this possible for him. Again steyr I sincerely wish you the best either way you take though. And again that is from the heart.

intuition897 much thanks, glad I could help invoke a more positive viewpoint from the other side of the coin. Glad that as I could see the one side you could see the other.

As I said my views were only based on the information given. Between us and the others here, I hope steyr can find the most comfortable place in this possible for him. And indeed I agree with intuition897 that it might help things if you and your wife both talked about it here on the board.

In fact I think that if you just brought her online and showed her point blank your "New member with some concernes" post here, that after she reads it she will probably better come to see how this is affecting you. While then you can perhaps both better talk things over.

Also steyr my advice was for the sorely troubled monogamous you. While being fully enthusiastic swinger myself who is sorely wanting to go beyond what I already have btwn I wish I had a wife more like yours. Most certainly she would have only had to mention to me she’d like to return to the lifestyle and it would be no problem.

Course with that we probably would have married with that in mind anyway. But again from the heart I wish you all the best.

However intuition897 in defense of my initial post you say his wife is “sharing” while from my viewpoint she isn’t sharing anything but instead is jamming it down her husband’s throat.

You also say there is no evidence of “cheating.” While as for me not being one of Bill Clinton’s camp that anything short of intercourse is “not sex” I contend that steyr being monogamous when his wife “encouraged, asked etc. a man other than her husband (him) to lick the alcohol from her breast, nipples what have you. That without her husbands consent. (Which I did not find in steyr’s post was given by him) that this was cheating. Regardless that it was a minimal sex act. Cheating is still cheating. So why I sounded so harsh was because when I was still monogamous and had a girlfriend who cheated. I forgave her. Only a half year later to find she cheated again. While when she came home she found the locks changed and her clothes in a paper bag outside the door. So it was on another girlfriend much later when I caught her having just climbed into bed with another man. Not yet having done anything on returning home she found the same. And no amount of doorbell ringing, begging or knocking could summon me.

You see because of my experiences I am the kind of man who when once stabbed in the back. Does not turn and offer it to be stabbed again, but instead stabs back.

[Mike and Jan]

OK, my marriage is somewhat like yours. But in our case it's me (the husband) who really hates not being able to swing and my wife who is not wanting to. So, I can understand your wife's feelings.

We indulged in swinging with five different couples years ago and I absolutely loved everything about it. She had remorse after each experience and never really became comfortable with it so we decided to stop.

I miss it terribly! I try, most of the time, to convince myself that the memories are enough, but they're not. I simply hate the fact that we sometimes meet really nice people that we both like and I suspect they're in the lifestyle but can't act on it.

I'd give anything for my wife to let down her defenses and give it a real try again. I know what your wife must be going through. She's not simply wanting sex with other folks, she's desiring adventure and wants to share those adventures with you, her best friend.

I do think she's very lucky to have a spouse so willing to attempt to understand and join her though. You should be commended.

I, personally, don't think that getting a prostitute is such a good idea though. I'm not sure either of you would enjoy, or really feel relaxed with, that.

And I think other experienced swingers are going to make you feel like the outsider and even more insecure with it all.

I'd suggest looking for a couple where both (or at least one) partners are inexperienced and somewhat apprehensive but interested. First establish a friendship and trust with all concerned then let your wife be the leader in introducing everyone's fantasies, slowly, very slowly. I think she'll even enjoy this. There are a lot of couples out there just like this.

Good luck to you and keep understanding your wife's feelings. Swinging is really hard for folks who don't understand totally, to understand. And, remember, you are very special for being here to get 'that' understanding. Your wife is very lucky to have you!

[steyr]

Well, first off - with NO hostility - let me say that Merric, you've got it wrong.

I do not believe in any way shape or form that my wife has lied to me or rubs my nose in anything.

I do believe that she thought the monogmous life was indeed for her, and now that we are nearing the dreaded 7-year itch (married almost 4, lived together for 3 before marrying), she's got the desire again.

I will also say that we moved cross-country 1.5 years ago, and have come into a GREAT circle of friends. A few of whom are admitted swingers. I'm 100% certain that this sparked the renewal of her desire, and hey - that's okay.

Before meeting and hanging out with all these new people, we never engaged in "public" displays of nudity or "erotic" acts like the nipple shots, etc. And know what - it DOESN'T kill me to watch it. I think I'm more indifferent than anything, but I do enjoy that she enjoys it. And I've had my mouth on more than a few breasts during these activities, too. It's not swinging - it's stupid party fun, and no big deal to me. I only mentioned my discomfort with it as an example of my own issues with being private and non-exhibitionist. And this discomfort is not severe by any means, nor does it last more than a minute. It's also lessened over time, as this type of activity isn't rare at some of the parties we've attended.

My wife is a wonderful woman, who is admitting to herself and to me that she wants to act on attractions to other people - both men and women. I think that's fantastic that she's willing to do that. It's a testament to her love for me, that she doesn't lie, doesn't cheat, and wants to share this part of her life with me, knowing full well that I've been mostly resistant to it in the past.

Unfortunately, sexual issues often separate people. I'm not being blinded here. I simply love my wife more than anything, and I don't see the harm in trying to open my eyes (and my pants) to this type of activity if that's what will make her happy. She's not "jamming it down my throat".

the truth is, I came to the realization on my own - that unless something changes in our relationship, we are doomed. She has NEVER given me an ulimatum and said "either we do this or it's over". But my closed-minded feelings about this type of activity has led to insecurity about our relationship as a whole. She wants something. Until now, I was unwilling to give it to her. Yes, I worried about what that would do to us. And my issues wound up manifesting in other arguments, but I've come to the realization that it really all boils down to my closed-mindedness about a lifestyle I know she wants to explore with me. I knew it even before she admitted it.

And to elaborate on that - I want to enjoy this, too, but my preconcieved notions of love, devotion, and sex get in the way.

Thousands of people swing and stay happily married. We know some. Hell, one couple is even having a baby in a few months (obviously the swinging has ceased, at least for now). These people are happy and secure and in loving relationships. Why can't we do the same?

She hasn't done anything behind my back. She's a far better person than that, and I know it. If she wasn't, I wouldn't care to work so hard to make our relationship as strong as it can be.

I said something very similar to this to my wife just earlier today: "I'm thinking it's easier to expand a closed mind than try to close a mind that has already been opened. You can't un-know something. But you CAN discover new things!

That sums it up VERY well. A relationship is built on understanding. And if we both admit that we have differing desires, and that this may very well be something that divides us, there is no risk in trying new things. I've already told her that I've got nothing to lose by trying, and everything to gain. I have zero to gain by refusing to consider giving this a shot - and everything to lose. I like to play the better odds.

FWIW, there's very little - if anything - in my original post or this one that I haven't already discussed with my wife. However I agree that it is important for her to get in on this, too. Expect to hear from her soon, as I plan to show this to her tomorrow.

Thank you all for taking the time to really delve into this with me, and soon with us. It's refreshing to see such enthusiasm - and LONG, indepth replies. It's good reading.

And again, Merric - I know you meant well with your observations, but I truly think you've misunderstood the situation. Those who posted after you seem to have a better grasp on what's really going on, believe me. No worries, though. I still found your reply interesting, even if it was inaccurate.

[fun4Ds]

hi,steyr i couldn't help but comment.you seem like an open minded inteligent guy to me that is looking for some help with your issues and i hope mrs.steyr is an experianced enough swinger to go at your slower pace (ie.knowing the rules.) im not shure about your feelings when you wrote, saving your marriage because it is DOOMED (those things stuck out to me). i really dont know the mrs. but would she sacrifice your home the car (maby kids) or family, friends. everything you have built together in order to be herself ? if not then she understands the big rule of NO means NO. if she would then i would guess there is going to be big trouble.

the part with going to a ranch to hire a woman so there would be no how no way emotional attachments i dont know. that could turn out to be the best or worst thing. you guys would have to weigh the possible outcomes of that. i could be at least open minded to that one. we know the experiances we have with friends /playmates and we are more comfortable in knowing that we could trust who we are with to be honest about std's and such.

as far as knowing some known swingers in your area you might get to know them and ask some questions there. most (true swingers) are honest and happy to give their views on the lifestyle, but you will find as on this board no two people/couples are alike but share common interest. some people we meet we just dont agree with. and some dont agree with us. dosent mean we cant party with them. just means that we both always have the right to veto sex with another couple.

we hope mrs.steyr comes around or at least reads and shares some insight into your issues. we wish you a happy journey together.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

the part with going to a ranch to hire a woman so there would be no how no way emotional attachments i dont know.

I have the same reservations about using a prostitute. In the end, she's human, too, and when everyone's naked - pro or not - she's still a woman. The same impartiality that she would show is identical to what a swinger shows. Swingers are usually married couples with great relationships. No offense, but they're not leaving their spouse for you. While we have nothing but respect for our playmates, we are all consenting to be one another's play-toys. The concern that Steyr has about emotional attachments is very common. The surprise comes when you start to realize that no one gets into the relationship that isn't LET IN by someone. Now getting into your bed is one thing; getting into your relationship is quite another. Mr. intuition and I have discussed the possibility of falling in love with someone else. We've pretty much agreed that it will never happen, but if the stars fell from heaven and it did happen, we would have to decide at that time whether we wanted to be emotionally monogamous or not. Some folks are polyamorous, and can sustain multiple LTR's. I don't have the emotional reserves for it now, I think, but it is a possibility. Bottom line is, I feel I'm the best woman for Mr. intuition, but if he finds someone who really truly could be better to him than I can, I would encourage him to be with her.

Amazing how much work we have to do on ourselves, eh? It keeps you on your toes, because you really have to make sure you are the kind of person your spouse deserves and would want to live with. Would they say "I do" again today?

Steyr, you said: "I want to enjoy this, too, but my preconcieved notions of love, devotion, and sex get in the way." I guess what it boils down to is, are you willing to change these beliefs? And how hard are you willing to work at it? Because it won't come easily. Try searching the board (search feature, top of the page) for keywords like guilt, morality, religion, attachment, jealousy, uneasy, scared, etc. You'll be amazed at the number of people who have shared the same fears. The vast majority, in fact, including me.

P.S.>> Merric, I am sorry to hear about your experiences. It does change a person when this happens to him or her. I hope some day you find yourself a woman who is worthy of you.

[kinkykoupleinny]

We have come across this type of scenario a couple of times in the community of swingers we talk to... and, unfortunately, it usually doesn't end up turning out too well.

Jealousy and insecurity of any type are extremely bad emotions to bring into the lifestyle. We have seen people brake-up, ask for divorces, leave their spouse for a swinging partner, walk-out of a party and leave their spouse stranded without a ride home, etc.....

We have a few rules about swinging: we only play together, we only do anal with each other, and we DO NOT, under ANY CONDITIONS, play with a couple that we feel may be having relationship issues. There are some places ya don't want to be in the world, and in the middle of someone else's bad relationship is one of them.

We have seen a few couples, and talked to and heard about many more, that think they can use the lifestyle to "save" their marriage. For those of you out there that are new to the lifestyle, do not get involved in a situation like this, no matter how nice the couple is!! We have been down that road, and believe us, there is nothing less sexy than being in the middle of a playdate and hearing things like "you don't moan like that when I do that!" and "well, if ya did it like he is, we wouldn't have to go out and fuck other people".

As far as your situation with the Mrs., styer, I have no idea what to tell you. Obviously you love your wife, and I know you feel that doing this for her may make things better, and I hope they do, but doing this to make someone else happy in no reason to be in the lifestyle, in our humble opinion.

Good luck to you both.
Bob and Tammy

[Merric]

steyr, with this additional information that fills in the blanks for me then I retract my post and my whole hearted apologies to your wife. though I have to agree with kinkykoupleinny your reasons mignt not be the best for joining the lifestyle. All I can do is again wish you the best of luck in your pursuit of happiness.

and intuition897, thanks much, I have a feeling I will indeed find her. while hopefully she will be as charming as you. *w/s*

[steyr]

Hi all,

This is "Mrs. Steyr". I haven't gotten my own name yet because I wanted to reply to this while all was still fresh in my head. I am not a forum type person so I won't do the quote thing but I am glad to see so many cool people on this board. When he told me yesterday that he had came to this realization while it was wonderful to hear, I couldn't help but wonder if it was genuine or just a "ploy" shall we say to get me to want to continue our relationship.

Ok, about me - I am a very sexual and curious person. I am very much uninhibited and want nothing more than to share that with the person I love. Without sounding too corny, it makes a strong bond that much stronger. I have always and will always continue to love Mr. Steyr and nothing will ever change that. I guess that is what led me to believe I could squelch my extracurricular desires in the beginning years of our relationship when he expressed no interest whatsoever. At first it seemed a bit strange that he wouldn't even want to see me with another girl but once I got to really understand the private, one-on-one person he was I had no more desire to broach the subject. Then life started to change when moving from NY and we met some people (wonderful, awesome people) who have been swinging with other wonderful people we know for many many years now. We both grew to respect their maturity and discretion and I believe that is what re-kindled my sexual flame. I guess it would have come out in another form sometime eventaulloy but that is where I can pinpoint it best.

Mr. Steyr had tried his best to refrain me from my sexual desires that he probably had more insight to than I did by attempting to control my emotions towards that lifestyle and almost by turning down his nose at it. That I believe was his insecurity in my previous relationship coming out in the wash. I cannot express how wonderful it is that he has come to the same realization that I have, being that our relationship is doomed if we don't open up more to each other. I don't need to go out and screw the whole world. He and I have opened up to each other sexually (talking, sharing a few experiences) and I believe that only made me long for that stronger bond when two people that share sexual desires towards others have. I guess what I am trying to say is that he and I have an awesome relationship, share many many interests and can laugh like two children sometimes just being plain silly. Especially since moving away from the stress of our life in NY we have both found more peace within ourselves and can have much more fun together. So I would love to not let that go but it has been so many years of him forcing the "bad" of it all in my head that I just don't know if he is truly ready for something like this or if it is just a way to keep me from leaving. Him actually coming on this board and talking to you guys is a big stepping stone for him, and I see that this may be entirely possible I don't want to give up on him, I have tried to broaden our sexual horizons and in the seven years I feel that from missionary position to toys and other girls has been tough at first, but may only get easier with him all the way in the game with me and on a similar page. Ok, I have begun to ramble so I will stop now.

Mrs. Steyr

[steyr]

Mr. Steyr here again.

I believe our situation to be rather unique. I'm certain that many other couples try this to "save their relationship", however I think the situations that brought my wife and I to this point are not common.

Neither of us has cheated. In fact, I don't feel either of us has a desire to cheat. It's not just about sex with other people. It's about a broadening of horizons and shared experiences.

The issue, as Mrs. S touched on, is that my fear of this lifestyle (and more specifically, my fear of her repressed desires) has caused interesting problems in our relationship. I have tried to keep her "wild side" in check, often subconsciously. Example:

About 2 months ago, Mrs. S went out for drinks with a few girls she works with - which she does on a fairly regualr basis. Late in the evening, she calls me, telling me that she's too drunk to drive, and will be staying at her co-worker's house for the night (this female coworker lives close to their workplace).

I flew off the handle. Now it's not that I think she's lying to me, or sleeping with someone else, or fooling around with this girl. I never, ever believed she was being deceitful, nor did I accuse her of it. But the "wild" lifestyle of being out during the week and getting that drunk and "sleeping out" was bothersome to me. It bothered me when she acted "wild", because I know that deep down, I felt that any behavior like that might remind her of her "wilder" times when she was partying and swinging regularly, and that scared the hell outta me.

I just knew - even when she really didn't - that she had desires outside of our bedroom. I had zero fear of her acting on it secretly; she's not like that. But I did want to try to squash those desires because they scared me.

Well, I'm happy to say that I'm no longer scared. Nervous, yes. But not scared. When you come to an epiphany of sorts, it's quite a relief of the soul. Hell, just yesterday I - for the first time ever - told my wife that I was looking at porn. I would have NEVER offered that information before, though I knew that she didn't care, and all she wanted was for me to be open about it. But it came so easy to me yesterday. Where in the past there would be shame, in the present there is relief and honesty. It's wonderful, actually.

Funny story goes along with it - my wireless mouse crapped out in the middle of it all. Windows Media Player open on the desktop, a "money shot" scene playing on repeat. I had to go to Staples to buy a new mouse......and leave that running the whole time (I'm no good with keyboard shortcuts, and couldn'f figure out how to shut it off without the mouse). We had a great laugh about it.

Hey, you guys might get sick of my ramblings soon, but I want you all to know how helpful you've already been in such a short time. I'm glad the Mrs. was able (and quite willing) to get on here and discuss the issue, too. There really is a new wave of honesty and understanding brewing within our relationship. This forum is just one more outlet for our feelings, as well as a great way to hear others' thoughts and ideas.

Much thanks. You guys have been awesome.

[LOL_OMG]

Well it amazes me that this board always brings up issues I've never thought about. How interesting it all is, once that door is opened....you really never can go back.
Most of the advice on this board is "don't use swinging to fix your marriage", however in your case I think it may be more than beneficial. It already seems as if you are coming out of a shell so to speak, Mr Steyr, and it sounds from your post that you are liking it.
You seem like articulate and caring people, more than likely the simple fact of talking about these issues has helped you both. I wish I had great words of wisdom for you but I believe you are making good progress on your own.
Intuitions, thanks for the wonderfully written post...I enjoyed it very much. Merric with the history you described I don't think anyone would blame you for being a bit cynical.

Mrs LOL

PS I would love to go to one of those "ranches" in Vegas, just to get some pointers from a pro!

[steyr]

Everyone is unique, as is every relationship.

I do believe I am indeed coming out of shell, and it's feelin' pretty good. And ALL opinions are worthwhile; encouraging, indifferent, wise, comical, cynical; they all add to the discussion with a different perspective.

And LOL_OMG - I LOVE the sig line. Took me but a second to place it. Pesky toll booths.......lol.

[Mike and Jan]

Mr. Steyr,

Sounds like you're finally realizing that you've got a wife that so many men would kill to have.

And what you've been apprehensive of is something that so many of us can only dream of.

Go slowly but savor and enjoy every new expereince, and always remember that you're the lucky one!

Mrs. Steyr,

I wish you were my wife's best friend and confidant. I'd love for her to understand you and let some of your wonderful openness rub off on her.

You're just too perfect!