Interested in having a woman join us, but don't want to see her with another man

[thor-in-vegas]

hi all!

i am an attatched male (engaged).

i have been reading posts and articles here for the past few days and would like to compliment the regulars here, as you guys have a great group with good advice to lend.

i feel like to describe my whole situation would be long winded and boring, so hopefully, with some questions from you guys, we will all gain some understanding of me. LOL

my "issues" are: (please dont judge me yet; im trying to be open minded)

i am one sided when it comes to the idea of swinging with my fiance'.
meaning that i would love to see her with a girl, or both of us with her, but i cant seem to find any sort of turn on in seeing her with another man.
even having a guy in the room watching us seems to rub me the wrong way.

i know this is not really "swinging", but i hope that you guys might be able to broaden my horizons a bit.
my fiance' has had a few girl/girl experiences in her past, but does not consider herself to be bisexual. (she says she was doing it for the other person)

we watch porn together (we have a great sex life between the two of us)
and she is comfortable with me getting turned on by other women, but when the idea of adding another person has been discussed; she expresses jealousy. "if you're going to do someone else, then so am i."
then she expresses to me that she really doesnt care to be with another man, and that im all she needs.

because of this; i have dropped the subject. its obvious to me that this is something that i want much more than her. she has expressed an interest in the past about bringing in another woman, "for me", but i know its just dirty talk.

the problem? i just cant seem to get the idea out of my head!!!

i am constantly thinking about another woman with us when we are together, and the thought drives me crazy! i do not share these thoughts with her, as we have already discussed it, and i know that she is not ready yet.

i have never, and will never cheat on my girl. she's the one i want to spend my life with, but im beginning to realize that she's not as sexually explorative as she seemed when we got together.

so, that's me in a nutshell, please feel freee to ask me anything. i will not be offended. and, yes, if the answer was forever, "no". i would marry her happily and spend the rest of my life with her.

but in my head...i'd be dreaming.

help?
thor

[Lovinlife59912]

Welcome to the board. At least your very honest in how you are feeling and why you want what you want but now you need to sit down and be open and honest with your fiance. These are your feelings and they should be shared and whether or not you guys act on them at least you are open about what you think about.

Have her read the posts with you and she will see that your just looking for information. It might even turn her on to see this side of you.

Good luck and keep reading.

[thor-in-vegas]

thanks for the reply,
we have talked about the idea before,
and while the conversation is hot, if i have ever tried to "realize" the idea, she gets jealous and thinks that she is not enough for me.

i have to say that i am struggling with that very question.

she is my best friend (we've known eachother since high school), and i do not want to ever be without her, but sexually, i do feel like i am "missing something". (selfish i know, but thats what's in my head)

i should point out that we have had an on and off relationship in the past, and have been fully committed for the past 18 months, and engaged for 4.

we have had some experiences in the past that might be important to mention, but i feel like they would take two full pages of text to explain. (i know how boring it is to read a seemingly endless post)

let me try to be very brief, and please ask for any details. im glad to give them.

we were a couple about four years ago, and i ended it. i hurt her very badly because of my immaturity.
she hurt me back by blowing one of my friends. (her immaturity at work)

we began seeing eachother on an uncommitted basis about 8 months later, and one night she took me to a strip club and ended up bringing home a girl that was there with some friends. (she didnt work there)
well, we were all together on the bed, and i began to go down on the girl, and my girl tapped me on the shoulder and whispered that this girl was too drunk. i agreed and we put a blanket on her, and went out in the living room to watch TV. my girl thought that i should have noticed sooner and still thinks that i didnt care if she was fully conscious or not. (i did!!!)
we are cool, but she still thinks im a bit of a dog. (i think i might be!)

so you can see, that she knows that i want this, and by being too eager in the past, i have soured her on the situation.
i want her to be comfortable with her attraction to girls, if there really is one. (not sure yet) but i am not in a position to be bringing this up.

if you asked my honest opinion of what my girl is feeling; i would say that she is honsetly turned on by other girls, but gets self conscious if it goes anywhere beyond fantasy talk.

PS: i only have net access at work, so i cant bring her on the forum with me.
thor

[WesternSwing]

Welcome to the Board, Thor.

In the big picture of things your girlfriend has a very good point, if you get some strange she should have the option of doing so also. Whether or not she actually exercises that option is another thing, but it should always be there.

Now, that said, there is no one "right" way to swing, everybody makes of it what is right for them. Some swing with just other women and some do full swap. Either way is "right". But I will say that I've never seen a couple yet that has a "single female only" rule in which eventually the wife doesn't start getting a bit resentful, even if she thinks it's okay in the beginning.

It sounds to me like this is more for your benefit then it is for both you, no matter how you try to say differently. From what you've said she's already been through this once before for another boyfriend and look how well that relationship turned out. Forcing her to pursue this is just manipulation and in the short term you may get what you want, but in the long run you'll do irrepairable damage to your relationship. It already sounds like a veiled threat of "we do this or I'm never going to be happy" and that is manipulation. Coercion and manipulation are two words that should never come into swinging. Period.

If you feel you are "missing" something because you haven't had a threesome and she won't go there with you, then you are truly not ready to commit to this or any other woman. You still have some maturing to do before you'll be ready to be married. Mrs. WS and I don't swing because we feel we have missed or are missing something. We swing because we are adding to what is already a great sex life. We are exploring new adventures together and in complete agreement with each other.

It also sounds like this relationship is already built on some distrust and therefore any additional urging to bring someone else into the relationship is just going to further that. You've both used sex as a weapon against each other in the past, I'm sure she's very weary of this happening again.

You have to decide if this fantasy is more important than your relationship with her or not. If you value you relationship with her that much, you should drop the whole swinging thing and concentrate on making your relationship with her work. Maybe someday she'll come to you and say "hey, about that other girl thing you mentioned some time ago..." And maybe she won't. If she is saying "no" right now you have to respect that and don't keep pushing. She is saying "no" for a reason. When, and if, she is ready she'll let you know.

Mr. WS

[shigrl269]

Hi Thor,
I'm a newbie here too, first post. I read your situation and find myself in a similar one, sort of. My hubby very much wants to swing; I have had girl/girl in the past (not while we were together). I am turned on by other women and hubby thinks this is great. He used to want to watch me and another woman and that was that, although that hasn't happened.
He now talks about me with other men and swinging. First as dirty talk, now he is really wanting it.
Problem: I feel like he wants this experience with other couples, women and himself in particular b/c he is lacking something in our sex life. Also I fear he will become attracted to the other person and the thought of him doing with someone else what he does with me, hurts.
I am obviously NOT ready for swinging, open for exciting him with some girl/girl, but have no desire to see him do anything with another woman. I know it is selfish and I'm not pressed to run out and do it, but he talks about swinging A LOT.
Don't know if this helps you in anyway, but it may.

Also if you don't mind my asking, you or anyone else for that matter, having never done it, does it affect the relationship? Cause jealousy? I'm sure it is individual for everyone, but some feedback on how you can share and not want to wander would be great, apart from the relationship being great to start.
I think I would enjoy the experience if I could overcome the scariness of the newness of it, and my own insecurity. Is this at all common?
I think I am paranoid!!! Sorry for the long post, have been holding this inside, haven't talked to anyone, feels good to throw it out there. Thanks all

[thor-in-vegas]

shigirl269, and all,

thanks for the replies.

shigirl, thanks for your post, its kind of nice to have the other side of the coin here reading this.

i too, find it really freeing to be able to talk about this subject, and dont have any friends i can talk to about this stuff. (of course i have my girl, but sometimes you want an outsiders point of view)

i realized when i started typing my first post, (erased all and started over twice) that my situation cant "really" be understood by anyone that doesnt know the "whole" story, and i cant expect anyone to read the novel that would be involved in that.
i do not feel like i am being sneaky by asking these questions, i feel like you guys are a group of impartial friends that i can confide in.

"It sounds to me like this is more for your benefit then it is for both you, no matter how you try to say differently."

yes, i realize that my thoughts are selfish, and i am not usually that kind of guy. im not trying to "word around" the fact that it would be for me, i was just trying to add in that it would not be the first time we have "gone down this path".


my girl and i have been through a lot, and we are stronger for it. we really do have a pretty good dialog with eachother and talk about everything. including this. i think i am just displaying some of the fears that lots of people feel when considering something like this.

yes, part of me is a chauvanistic male that wants to feel like he is the only man in the world, but i am also quite sensitive, and want my girl to be truely happy.


UPDATE: typing this yesterday must have opened my mind up a bit, and you guys must have inspired me.
last night my girl and i had a wonderful talk about all this stuff.
guess what im finding out! im not as freaked out about seeing her with another man as i thought i was. on my own, thinking about it seemed very uncomfortable, but with her, it actually seems kinda hot!
my mind was changed when she said something that i had already read here.
she said, "its not about the other person, they are like a really good sex toy that we get to play with."
that makes sense to me. i do not get jealous when i use a dildo to make her come, because i know that I'M the one that gave her the orgasm. i just used tools to do it. same thing with a swing partner; its still just about the two of us, but the toy works itself! (trying to be funny here)
we havent agreed to anything yet, and its still just talk, but i DEFINITELY know now that this is something that she's thought about too, and not in a bad way.
i guess i was scared to open up about it, but we have have grown so much in our relationship that things that used to be fight starters are now pillow talk.
WOO HOO!
i hope you guys can see that i really am committed to my girl and she completes me. i am here for perspective.

i appreciate any and all input, and i will keep you updated about our "hot talk".
yes, she knows that i visited a swinging site and asked for opinions, she was unsure how she felt at first, but she said that she knows that i research EVERYTHING to death, so this is not surprising to her.

thanks for the help, im growing by leaps and bounds,
thor

PS-shygirl, there is a post here that is to you, thought it would be too long winded to include it here.

[thor-in-vegas]

shygirl,

i have an opinion here; it may apply to you guys, it may not.
i think when a guy hears that his girl is turned on by other women, our porno minds go off in all directions with dirty ideas. and you know since we're men, we cant really help it. i think he is starting slowly, trying to ease you into the idea. only YOU know your man well enough to know whether or not this is something he wants to do for both of you, or just for himself.

"Problem: I feel like he wants this experience with other couples, women and himself in particular b/c he is lacking something in our sex life. Also I fear he will become attracted to the other person and the thought of him doing with someone else what he does with me, hurts."

how do you feel your sex life is now?
i know for me, (and this is still too new to be totally sure) that the reason i can be O.K. with watching my girl get nasty with another guy, is because i dont believe its possible for anyone to get her off as good as i can. (and do!)
she says she feels the same way, that she would find it hot, but no one can do what i can do. (god i love her!)
so i still get to feel like the alpha male!

i can tell you what worked for my girl to get me to be honest with myself about what im comfortable with and what im not.
(this was a while ago. she knew that i was only bringing up the idea of swinging because I wanted to bring another girl into our bed)
she said, "so you'd be ok with me being with another guy?"
i said, "yeah" (i was SOOO not sure)
so she descibed it in detail and watched my body language and reactions to the image of her with someone else.
well, that worked for me. i knew i was not ready, and stopped asking. (for awhile!)
the difference between now and then is the bond between us, and the strength of our relationship. it was not strong enough then; we both are thinking that it is now.
see how he reacts! if he gets all weirded out and tells you to stop describing it, (this could be fun for you to watch him fidget!) then you know he was only bringing up the idea of you with another guy so that he can get what he wants.
im changing my mind; maybe he is too. maybe not.

how does it affect our relationship? does it cause jealousy?

well, when it was all about me, and she knew it; it caused fights, and jealousy.
since she feels now that its something that is "FOR" the relationship, and about both of us and nobody else; (and i do too) then the jealousy kind of just fades away because we're together.
does that make any sense? i dont know.
good luck, and keep us "posted",
thor

[funn]

Originally Posted by thor-in-vegas

hi all!

but i cant seem to find any sort of turn on in seeing her with another man.
even having a guy in the room watching us seems to rub me the wrong way.

but im beginning to realize that she's not as sexually explorative as she seemed when we got together.

thor

Thor, I think it is you that is not sexually explorative. I'm not trying to be mean but........

[thor-in-vegas]

i dont take it as mean.
you got me. i am realizing that its my horizons that need to be broadened, and we are moving in that direction.
thanks for any and all input,
thor

[shigrl269]

Hey Thor,
Thanks for the nice post. Lots to think about.
When people discuss the topic of swinging in a casual way it's always viewed as hot topic, sexy, simple. I think it is a complex lifestyle. There is a lot to think about and repercussions if you don't. Your idea about the open and detailed discussion of what I may like to get out of the experience as well as his will be a major factor as too weather or not we take this step now or possibly later. I personally don't think it is something I want to jump into feet first without looking!! I, too research EVERYTHING for all possible info in hope of making a well thought out decision!!!
I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to post some really helpful insight.
Hubby is a pilot and gone for the next week so I have some thinking time to use to think personally about how I feel. I will also have plenty of research time!!
He thinks it is great that I am talking with you all, he too has been on the site checking thins out.
Let us know how it goes with you and your girl, hopefully you will continue to grow as a couple. It's nice to hear the depth of your devotion to her!!! I hope you tell her that on a regular, it is always a great thing to hear!!!
Thanks, and good luck to you both, oh yeah....HAVE FUN!!!!!!

[DGrey]

Welcome Thor.

We don't have much to add seeing as everyone already gave such great advice but wanted to welcome you and wish you luck.

E&D

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by shigrl269

Hi Thor,
I'm a newbie here too, first post. I read your situation and find myself in a similar one, sort of. My hubby very much wants to swing; I have had girl/girl in the past (not while we were together). I am turned on by other women and hubby thinks this is great. He used to want to watch me and another woman and that was that, although that hasn't happened.
He now talks about me with other men and swinging. First as dirty talk, now he is really wanting it.
Problem: I feel like he wants this experience with other couples, women and himself in particular b/c he is lacking something in our sex life. Also I fear he will become attracted to the other person and the thought of him doing with someone else what he does with me, hurts.
I am obviously NOT ready for swinging, open for exciting him with some girl/girl, but have no desire to see him do anything with another woman. I know it is selfish and I'm not pressed to run out and do it, but he talks about swinging A LOT.
Don't know if this helps you in anyway, but it may.

Also if you don't mind my asking, you or anyone else for that matter, having never done it, does it affect the relationship? Cause jealousy? I'm sure it is individual for everyone, but some feedback on how you can share and not want to wander would be great, apart from the relationship being great to start.
I think I would enjoy the experience if I could overcome the scariness of the newness of it, and my own insecurity. Is this at all common?
I think I am paranoid!!! Sorry for the long post, have been holding this inside, haven't talked to anyone, feels good to throw it out there. Thanks all

You've asked quite a few questions here, and rather big ones. There are a number of good threads in the Swinger Advice and FAQ sections in the toolbar above, but I'll give you a short answer here too.

Also if you don't mind my asking, you or anyone else for that matter, having never done it, does it affect the relationship?

We have become closer then ever before. Hell, we even work together now!

Cause jealousy?

Yes it can sometimes. But we've found that as we've explored the lifestyle more and more, the jealousy seems to be less and less. There can always be something that triggers jealousy, but being able to talk it through is what is important, and not obsessing about it. Jealousy is insecurity.

I'm sure it is individual for everyone, but some feedback on how you can share and not want to wander would be great, apart from the relationship being great to start.

Why would anyone want to wander? Are you afraid you're going to want to wander, or your husband? If you aren't afraid you are, but that he is, why is this? Why do you feel you are capable of just having sex but he isn't? I had to ask myself these same questions when we first got into the lifestyle. Why was I jealous? It was because I was feeling insecure. Nothing Mrs. WS was doing was making me think our relationship was in trouble, but I was worried about her finding someone better then me. Finally I came to the realization that for her, ther is nobody better then me.

Is this at all common? I think I am paranoid!!!

Yes, it is very common. No worries. Check out the following links for some good reaing:

Swinger FAQ's

Jealousy in Swinging

and Setting Rules to Swing By

There are links in each topic to the most popular threads on each of these subjects.

Mr. WS

[sereneiders]

Shigrl269,

Sorry for this but, may I ask you to post your original cuestion in another thread devoted exclusively for your issues? It'd be easy, just start the new thread, telling how the topic started here, then copy and paste the messages addressed to your question. Once post, come back here and post the name for your post (and the link of you know how, if not, it doesn't matter, just ask someone to post it).

I am asking this because both your questions and the Original Poster's ones deserve the same degree of dedicated attention. In a forum it uses to happen that some thread triggers a new question that could evolve into a different discussion, and as the thread turns into two different conversations intermixed, at last it becomes confusing and worthless for both of them.

When this happens we say it's a "hihacked thread", whether there were or not intention to distrupt it (as the word "hihack" would imply), so we trend to avoid it by starting a new thread, and coming back to the original one to tell people how the new thread correlate with this one and invite them to participate in both threads in an organized fashion.

I feel I'd like to answer back your posts, but aslo that, by doing so, I'd be contributing to the "hihacking" of the original thread, depriving the Original Poster from the attention he deserves. So, if you start your own thread, I'll post there too.

Thank you.

[sereneiders]

Thor,

You reminds me of myself, years ago. I've been there, right there... and now I am HERE!

It took for us 15 years to finally start swinging, but we did.

I hope it doesn't take so long for you, but it's likely that you both will need enough time to settle down your relationship, get to trust in each other, get to know the way each other feels, what are your fears and how to overcome them, turn the theoretic concept: "it's not about the other person, they are like a really good sex toy that we get to play with into something both of you feel from inside your guts.

We say, TALK and TALK and TALK. You're already talking, it seems to me you have a high level of communication, that perhaps it still get undermined by some fears and perjudgment about each other expectations. This isn't something that can be overcomed my means of magic, with a finger snap, it's a proccess required not only to improve communication, also to get the confidence you need, to feel your guts agree with the theories.

But you two are in the right paht, If I have to bet, I bet you will manage to do it, but I wouldn't take a bet about WHEN, how long it will take.

Just don't hurry, take it slowly, play with the idea, enjoy the communication enhancement proccess for what it worths, without caring too much about the goals. Luckinly enough, one day you two will find yourselves meeting the goal without even looking at it as a big issue.

[thor-in-vegas]

wow, thanks for the insight!

i am learning that its all about just talking right now, but already we've both learned a few things about eachothers secret desires, and that has made us closer.

in our discussion(s), we have pretty much come to the conclusion that its hot to talk about, and we like getting to know more about eachother, but thats where its all at for now. just between us.

who knows about the future.

i do know this though, and i have just learned it.

talking to her about something that i find uncomfortable is soooo much better than keeping it to myself.
i think that the reason my wants and desires were so selfish is because i was keeping them all to myself, and never getting the most important perspective that i can. HERS!

we are doing great, and just so everyone knows, last night we had sex four times, and three times today.
i am so sore, but very happy and satisfied,

i'll be around learning and just maybe trying to offer some of my insights. few as they may be.
thanks to all,
great forum you've got here!
thor