Wife wants to swing, I'm afraid if I don't let her she'll be unhappy

[JohnUK]

Hi all, and Happy Easter!

My situation is probably a little different from most who post here.
My partner (she) finally has come clean and has admitted she wants to have sex with another guy she knows. We've been together ten years and have 3 young children together. She's never been with any one but me and was pregnant with our 1st child at 21. Recently she's turned 30 and this has created or brought to a head some issues for her. So suppose its a bit early for a mid life crisis but it feels a bit like one. She feels she's missed out on different things havings children so young. Recently she went on a few holidays with her friends and probably enjoyed the freedom which she's entitled to!

The thing is...while the idea arouses me, i'd honestly prefer her not to do it. I don't want to tell her this because I don't want her unfulfilled or unhappy. Also the feeling may stay or come back stronger if she doesn't act on it ever. When I talked about the risks to our relationship she said she wouldn't do it and that she'd have to "come to terms with it". I'm afraid she'll be unhappy, and maybe cheat on me eventually. Even if there was no emotional attactment which she says, I still don't want her to do it. She doesn't want me to be with anyone by the way.

How do we sort out this mess anyone?
Advice from women especially welcome!

Thanks
JOHN
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[angelrose85053]

Hello there and Happy Easter to you too!

It sounds like you both have a very strong commitment and good communication for you to have gone thorugh many of the changes a young parent experiences, having children and being together for 10 years. So, I want to applaud you on that first.

I also would like to note that it took a lot of guts for her to express her feelings about what is going on inside of her and let me tell you, I have been that woman before and it was hard "coming out with it". With that in mind, you owe her the same respect, HONESTY. If you honestly feel against her proposal, than you need to tell her. Do NOT do something because you feel you might lose her. TALK TALK TALK about it. A solution that makes both of you happy, should present itself. But you must find it TOGETHER.

Aimee

[funlovinpair]

Let me first echo the advice that you need to be honest. Do not tell her anything you don't truly mean. You can't tell her it's OK and then resent her for doing it later. Well, I guess you could, but that wouldn't be fair.

I think what's important is for you to figure out exactly how you feel about this whole situation, and what she hopes to accomplish from it. If the two of you can't figure it out on your own, you could always visit an open-minded therapist for insight.

Good luck,
Mrs. Fun

[intuition897]

The best advice I could give you both is to start asking the question "Why?" a lot. Why doesn't she want the same for you, if she feels it's acceptable for herself? Why do you not want her to do it? What's the real reason behind it all? Why do you feel threatened by this?

You've cracked open Pandora's Box, and now the questions are out...and need to be answered.

[sexyshelby]

The best advice is to talk, talk, talk. Ask each other a lot of questions and really LISTEN to each other.

Good luck.

~SS

[WesternSwing]

Hey angelrose, Welcome to the Board.

You are not in a unusual situation. It's not uncommon for women, especially those that were married and started a family young, to begin to "find themselves" around 30. In fact most divorces in first marriages happen when the wife is between 28 and 31.

It's also not unusual to be attracted to other people besides your spouse. She has come to you with her feelings which says to me that she is a wonderful woman who loves and trusts you enough to tell you this and truly cares about your marriage. That also says allot about how good a husband you are!

The differences between marriages that work and those that end is how the members of the relationship deal with the above issues together.

The most important rules is swinging are: 1) if it doesn't work for either of you, then it doesn't work for both of you, and 2) you always go at the pace of the slowest one in the relationship.

Taking #1, if a situation makes either of you uncomfortable then the other one respects that and doesn't pursue it. This can be how you swing, who you swing with, what sex acts are off-limits while swinging, etc.

If her having sex with someone else makes you uneasy then it should not be done. I don't swing so Mrs. WS can have sex with others, WE swing because it is a huge turn-on for both of us to see the other having fun and getting their groove on. We also wouldn't cheat on each other if we didn't swing. We can swing successfully because our heads are on straight like that. Swinging isn't "replacement sex" as so many "experts" in couples counseling would like you to believe. It is "additional sex" to an already great relationship and sex life.

If you are afraid she will cheat on you if you don't give her permission to have sex with this other guy then you two need to examine what's going on in your marriage that makes you think this way. Swinging is not a replacement for cheating. I don't cheat on Mrs. WS because we swing, I don't cheat on Mrs. WS out of love and respect for her and myself. I would never, ever want to hurt her in any way shape or form.

Taking #2, always going at the pace of the slowest person in the relationship. Even in swinging this changes. Sometimes it is me, sometimes it is Mrs. WS. In the beginning it was me so she let me drive this crazy train. Right now it is her.

What is huge red flags for me in your situation is 1) you're afraid if you don't let her play with this guy she will cheat on you, and 2) she won't afford you the same benefits and let you play with other women. This is very one-sided and tells me she's not interested in swinging, just having sex with this other guy. This is very selfish, and the very essence of swinging is that it is very unselfish.

So, in closing, you two need to really discuss why she is feeling this way, why she needs to have sex with this other guy, and how it makes both of you feel and how it will effect the marriage. You may also seek out some professional relationship help. Only swing, and I repeat, ONLY SWING when your relationship is on solid ground. Right now is not the right time.

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by intuition897

The best advice I could give you both is to start asking the question "Why?" a lot. Why doesn't she want the same for you, if she feels it's acceptable for herself? Why do you not want her to do it? What's the real reason behind it all? Why do you feel threatened by this?

You've cracked open Pandora's Box, and now the questions are out...and need to be answered.

Exactly. As you know Inuition, I'm a huge fan of Six Sigma. The method there is the 5-Whys. Repeatedly asking "why" peels away the layers of the symptoms that can lead to the root cause. It works in business and in life.

[angelrose85053]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Hey angelrose, Welcome to the Board.

Thank you WesternSwing...I love it here!

[jazzyislookin]

Hello,
The Mr. and I are working through this same thing right now so you're not alone. We started our family when we were very young and have only ever been with each other. We have been married 9 years and have three kids.
Yes we missed out on the wild young years so we are at that point where we want to have fun now. However we want to do it together. We don't want our feelings of "missing out on fun" to get in the way of our marriage. Our marriage is most important.
I think you should pay a lot of attention to WesternSwing's post. Those are two very important rules to follow. Listen to the veterans-they know what they are talking about because they have been there.
We have been discussing this lifestyle for about a year and each time we talk we get a greater insight into each others feelings and why we want to do this.

Keep talking! Keep talking! Keep talking!
Keep listening! Keep listening! Keep listening!

Then you can decide whether to jump in the boat or not-best of all you really get to know your partner a whole lot better than assuming what he/she is thinking. I know it seems a little tough right now but if you keep at it then it just gets easier and easier to talk about.

Good luck to you...

[JohnUK]

Thanks all for your replys.

Firstly, I may not have made it clear. I don't want to be with anyone else and she doesn't want me to be with anyone else either. But she would try to understand and let me (with difficulty) if that's what I wanted. So she's not too selfish in that respect. She knows it's tough for me but she's trying to be honest with how she's feeling.

She says, after much talking, that maybe the feeling will pass. But as I love her so much I don't want her feeling this way if its what she needs. We've decided to wait a while and she how she feels. I admit I am hurt that its something I can't satisfy but I do actually understand where shes coming from. I know it'll only be a physical thing but I don't know how I'll feel about her afterwards. I hope ok. Also I'm worried that this might open some floodgates with her and she might not want to look back. She says she doesn't think so but did ask me what if she did feel like this. I think I'd want out of the relationship, in fact I know I would. This just isn't for me. Especially the way it is, ie: she'd never want me to be there, she's not in to 3somes or more.

Should I try to understand and let her get it out of her system if she still feels this way or make a stand. She says she won't do it if I don't want her to but I don't want her to stay feeling like this. I'd prefer she did what she had to do and get it out of her system, even if it means us splitting up!

I really don't know!

[intuition897]

You're in a very tough spot John. But unless you want to just kiss your relationship goodbye, do NOT concede to this. This concerns me:

Originally Posted by JohnUK

I may not have made it clear. I don't want to be with anyone else and she doesn't want me to be with anyone else either. But she would try to understand and let me (with difficulty) if that's what I wanted. So she's not too selfish in that respect. She knows it's tough for me but she's trying to be honest with how she's feeling.

Neither of you are mentally prepared for it, and you really do HAVE to be. You can't just wing it. Okay, some people can, but generally they're taking a leap of faith together, and exploring the lifestyle together. But in this, you are just willing to do anything to keep her. In order to do this right now, you feel that you have to sell a little piece of your soul. Never, ever do this. You will hate yourself for it, and resent her. It's just sex, John. It ain't worth it!

But I guess you knew that deep down, right? What you're needing right now are some practical suggestions beyond, "Talk,talk,talk". So let's see what we can do.

The task at hand right now is to take stock of things. Measure and weigh your relationship. Be objective. Knowing what you know about your relationship, be completely honest: is it in decent shape? Does it have a few dents? Rust spots? Holes? Would a stiff breeze knock it over? If it was a car, would you scrap it, or would you overhaul it? I don't just mean the way it looks on the outside. I don't mean, 'will it get you from A to B?' I mean, is it really solid?

Now think a little bit more about this statement that you made:

Originally Posted by JohnUK

The thing is...while the idea arouses me, i'd honestly prefer her not to do it.

You need to figure out WHY it arouses you, and WHY you'd prefer that she didn't do it. Sounds easy, but like I said before, this is going to be like peeling an onion...and it might make you cry. lol You've already answered a few of these questions:

Originally Posted by JohnUK

...I don't want her feeling this way if its what she needs[allowing sex to control the situation, not the other way around]...I admit I am hurt that its something I can't satisfy[feelings of inferiority, mistakenly trying to live up to the impossible standard that we must be our spouse's "one, only, and everything"]...I don't know how I'll feel about her afterwards [you have a certain view of your wife that you have become accustomed to, and are uncomfortable with that changing. You are afraid you will lose respect for her...which you might if you believe that swinging is wrong] ...worried that this might open some floodgates with her and she might not want to look back [fear of abandonnment]. She says she doesn't think so but did ask me what if she did feel like this [perhaps your wife is leaning more toward polyamory]...I'd want out of the relationship [and you're not into polyamory AT ALL...this would be a serious, relationship-altering source of conflict, which you would prefer to avoid]... This just isn't for me [this might sum it up nicely]. Especially the way it is, ie: she'd never want me to be there [she's uncomfortable expressing her "unacceptable" sexuality in front of you, because she is afraid you will not still love her if you saw all the "ugly" parts of her.]...

Originally Posted by JohnUK

Should I try to understand and let her get it out of her system if she still feels this way or make a stand. She says she won't do it if I don't want her to but I don't want her to stay feeling like this. I'd prefer she did what she had to do and get it out of her system, even if it means us splitting up!

I'm glad that you are taking this as seriously as you are, becuase it's much less about sex than it is about where your relationship is at. Have you told her this?

Essentially, this is where my relationship with Mr. intuition wound up, with both of us questioning our ability to satisfy each other. It was very painful, until we realized that we still enjoyed being WITH one another - moreso than with any other person - but we felt cramped and dishonest if we had to pretend that we weren't aroused by other people so that we could stay together. So we just let go completely. Mr. intuition is free to leave this relationship anytime he pleases. If it would make him happy to develop another LTR with someone else, then I'm down with that. I'm not into it myself, but my focus is on making sure he's living the life that he deserves. Neither of us is "holding" the other person in the relationship. If the relationship could be analogized by two people embracing, the marriage we had before was where we were both holding the other person so they wouldn't run away. Now, we're holding each other because we want to adhere ourselves TO each other's lives, not try to keep them in our own lives. We choose to be together, and we won't use coercion of any sort to manipulate the other person into staying. The only things we are free to manipulate are ourselves, making ourselves into the kinds of people that our spouses would choose to live with for the rest of their lives. He has to choose to stay with me. I will not bind him to me.

Only you can decide whether or not you want to change your mind about your jealousy and hurt feelings. And your wife will need to work equally hard to deepen her understanding of things, too, as I think she still has an issue with separating love and sex. You either change your mind about non-monogamy, sell a piece of your soul, or leave the relationship. It sucks...but them's your choices. It's like friggin' Fear Factor - the Relationship Episode! They sure don't make it easy to pick which entree you want in round 2, do they? :rollseyes

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, John. Please keep us posted.

[WesternSwing]

John, this is her saying "John, something is wrong in our marriage because I'm finding myself looking elsewhere." My first wife said this, in many more words :rollseyes , but she did look outside the marriage, married the guy she thought "fulfilled" her and then divorced him three years and one child later because guess what? He didn't fix it.

This is a plea for relationship help. Swinging is not about filling voids or finding yourself. Something is missing in your relationship that your wife thinks this other guy can fulfill.

Get professional help. Please.

Mr. WS

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by intuition897

You either change your mind about non-monogamy, sell a piece of your soul, or leave the relationship. It sucks...but them's your choices.

John, I take this back. There is much to be said for being concise (something that's apparently not in my vocabulary ), and WS, you've concisely summed things up, and stated the so-obvious-it's-not obvious: It's a cry for help. Whether you do or you don't swing is a decision that will come much later, after you have resolved this issue. Right now, your wife wants to not just love you, but be IN love with you, too. So work on getting closer to each other.

Sheesh, I guess I should be changing my nickname, eh?

[JohnUK]

I'm pretty much convinced it's more than sex. It think it's some emotional thing. But I don't know what. Maybe turning 30 panicked her. (Like its that old! )

The thought of telling her she can't sucks, to me. She'll either resent me or cheat on me I feel. I can't take that. I wish I felt more like her then she might have something to worry about and realise what she has and forget her urges. Instead she knows I only want her but she also knows our relationship is hanging by a thread. And with our 3 childrens livelihoods at stake it must be a strong urge for her to not be able to let it go! I know she's regret everything in the end. It seems she's determined to hit the self-destruct button!
I did tell her that the grass is always greener on the other side and that there's loads of girls out there who've slept with loads of blokes but who'd love to have someone who worships the ground they walk on, as I do hers!

I've thought about letting her do it and dumping her straight afterwards.
It's better than her not doing/exploring this and it affecting our relationship indefinitely!
I think the bottom line is we want different things. And if it was: I want potatoes and she wants rice then that's a workable problem, but something as profound as this is probably hopeless, unless she snaps out of it/comes to her senses. But if its how she really feels and not a mid-life phase then I think it's pretty much hopeless.
It's tough because the kids are pretty much oblivious to it all.
I really feel like letting her do it, pretending I'm ok about it but dumping her straight afterwards. Otherwise I can say "No" and she may well do it behind my back eventually or it could be an issue for us forever!

All this has affected my love for her though, sometimes I feel I don't really know her like I thought I did.

Could it just be a mid-life crisis that she needs help with? And she doesn't really want the sex after all?
Sorry, I know you all are not consellors but you've got much needed valuable experiences and advice.

Thanks again for your replys!

John.

[Tempest419]

Hi John... boy did I recognize your emotions in your first post! You may want to read some of the things I've struggled with during our own little sojourn through this lifestyle. I don't hang around as much anymore b/c I'm not in the lifestyle, I just sort of pop in every now and again to see if 1) I can learn anything new, or 2) I can offer a little sympathy and advice to anyone else who is having difficulty. You've gotten a lot of good advice, but mostly from folks for whom swinging is the ideal. Thought you might appreciate a word or two from someone with your perspective

Your posts lead me to wonder if she has been to the boards and read up on this herself? It seems to me you're the only one looking at all the possible repercussions and that is scary in itself. And something that you said really screamed at me:

Originally Posted by JohnUK

It seems she's determined to hit the self-destruct button! I did tell her that the grass is always greener on the other side and that there's loads of girls out there who've slept with loads of blokes but who'd love to have someone who worships the ground they walk on, as I do hers!

You are absolutely right. I would give my left pinky toe to have a husband with your attitude about swinging. There is a deep scar on my heart for his attitude that I'm not sure when will heal. There ARE women out there who would appreciate the dedication and monogamy that you have to offer. Everything, EVERYTHING, is relative to where you are standing. My husband's best friend complains he only gets lollipop blowjobs and sex on a conception schedule. I looked at him and reminded him sometimes we just don't appreciate what we have. And you know what? Some people are just never happy no matter what they have. For some it's just never enough. You can break your friggin' back for bending so much and they're still not satisified. In my spouse's case, because it really wasn't about the sex, it was about stroking his ego.

IMHO, monogamy is a gift in and of itself, too... whether or not it's what you really wanted under the Christmas tree is the question. So don't sell yourself out. For anyone, not even her. I am not telling you this lightly, as we have been living together 13 years next month and have a 3 year old. When there is a lot at stake (and you have 3 children) and you're so used to compromising and making things work, it's real easy to compromise on this one. I wish I'd stuck to my original response of, "If you need sex with other people then you don't need to be married to me." The first reaction is usually the correct one.

If you can't come to an understanding, if she doesn't understand how much this obviously hurts you, if she just can't let it go... then let HER go b/c you are right, you don't really want the same things. Let HER explain to your kids why Mommy needs to go her own way. When she has to explain herself to the innocent people in her life, maybe she'll get some perspective. If you're in your right mind, the shine of random sex fades when pitted against the happiness and well-being of your family.

All my best wishes to you, and don't you dare drag yourself into the mud with revenge. You're obviously better than that. Keep your integrity.

Sincerely,
Tempest