How to open up more at initial meetings

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fuse

...what qualities are you looking for in the other couple (especially the man) when you have your first face-to-face meeting over drinks or dinner?

I like to see them happy to be with each other. They don't have to be all lovey-dovey to convey this either, in fact, when I see too much of a 'show of affection' it can be a sign that it's an act. In the couples conversation you can tell if they respect one another's views and if they listen to each other. That's very important to me.

From the man I like to know he's interested in what I have to say. I like men who are good listeners and can share tidbits of information about themselves that make me feel I'm being let in to their world. Eye contact is important. I see a lot in a man's eyes, how he looks at me. I also love to have him touch me at an opportune time, when the timing is right it can really turn up the sexual energy. Placing his hand on the top of mine while making a point during conversation, or at the back of my waist while we are moving through a tight crowd, are the tender touches that can make a strong connection.

Where is the line between flirting and plain old creepiness?

When a man looks at me like he hasn't had sex in a year and wants to jump my bones, that creeps me out. He sends the message that I'm nothing more than a piece of meat. Also, sexual innuendos throughout the meeting, that's a turn off. Either wait until you have received one from her and you're certain there's interest, or give one memorable one that will stand out and be something juicy for her to think about after returning home.

I'm pretty shy and unexperienced at flirting, so I tend to play it safe and I'm afraid I'm just coming across as boring....Any tips on ways I can open up some and be a little more attractive to the ladies without being phony?

Don't make yourself uncomfortable by trying to be something completely different. Instead, try to incorporate some new approaches a little at a time, see which work and which don't. I believe you'll be better off being observant and feeling each situation out and responding accordingly rather than living inside your head at those meetings trying to pre-plan what you should say or do next.

One of my favorite play partners is a shy guy. I could see this when we first met, but even though shy, he has an incredible way of making me feel special. I could tell he liked me and was so happy to be with me. I think that's what most women are looking for.

LM

[intuition897]

LM has some great suggestions. I agree that one should not try too hard to be something one is not. It's impossible to hide. And if you're being absolutely yourself, then you've just removed the stress of worrying that others will "see through you". Your wife likes you; so will others. And for the flirting, I'd say less is more. I'm not saying don't do it, I just mean don't OVER-do it. If you are attracted to the other woman, find subtle ways to let her know. No need for cat calls or over-the-top compliments. Just give her honest compliments...tell her you like her shoes (this one makes no sense to me, 'cause I'm just not a "shoe person", but apparently more women than not are impressed by it...go figure). If her outfit looks great on her, tell her so. But don't go on and on about it. LM is also right about subtle touching and eye contact. Both very sexy. Not leering mind you, but if there's a definite attraction, a good direct click of eye contact, and a slight smile while helping a woman out of the car, holding the door for her seating her at the table, etc. is a good bet to turn the temperature up a degree or two.

I think the key is to be comfortable. You're a man! Don't be afraid to exude that masculine energy! Think of guys like James Bond. Although you can do without the sexually loaded Austin-Powers-type puns, this was a man who knew how to ooze masculinity without resorting to belching or scratching his nuts. Or if you're more of the cowboy type, women are usually charmed by your boyishness, your tendency to treat a lady like a lady while excusing your "roughness" (an old fashioned notion, I know ), and if you can tip your hat and say "Yes ma'am!" in a genuine Southern drawl, you'd have THIS girl melted into a puddle. Give some thought to your "type" and think about what makes you sexy. Then just go with it.

[in4alook]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Just give her honest compliments...tell her you like her shoes (this one makes no sense to me, 'cause I'm just not a "shoe person", but apparently more women than not are impressed by it...go figure).
I think the key is to be comfortable. You're a man! Don't be afraid to exude that masculine energy! Think of guys like James Bond. Although you can do without the sexually loaded Austin-Powers-type puns, this was a man who knew how to ooze masculinity without resorting to belching or scratching his nuts.

I can help you with the shoe thing. It is a non-threatening compliment, it compliments a Lady’s sense of style. No way it could be a cover for "nice rack" when you say "nice blouse", or "nice butt" if you say "nice slacks".

I really like the James Bond metaphor. Cool confidence, never over the top. Confidence is an appealing trait in either sex.

I don't know how shy Mr. Fuse is. But this may help someone really shy of either sex. It depends on just how shy he is whether or not he could do the James Bond thing......might be running before he can walk. So I will give you advise for a really shy person and you take it from there. It doesn't matter what you are talking about in life the more you practice the better you get at it and some people are naturally gifted at it.

I suggest practicing when it doesn't count like baseball players do. By that I mean not when you are meeting someone on a couple date. If you are really shy, you and your wife go to your nearest mall on a busy day, walk down the mall and every now and then walk up to someone you might be attracted to and ask them what time it is. Then a simple thanks and move on. (Make sure you aren't wearing a watch BTW lol) This will get you used to talking to strangers, and by only going to people you are attracted to you will help keep the nerves in check when you are on "the couples date". Work your way up to stopping an attractive lady and striking up a short conversation like "I love those/that (shoes, top, skirt etc.) did you buy them here? I want to get that for my wife. Having your wife along will keep the lady from thinking you are trying to pick them up. Once you get the hang of talking to strangers, practice simple flirts in your everyday life. The girl at the check out counter, a waitress etc. Always keep it casual and fun without any pressure on yourself. Then why don't you practice on your wife while you are at it for the more advanced stuff. She will tell you if you are getting creepy. You should flirt on a daily bases with your wife anyway IMO.

[Mr. Fuse]

Thanks again everyone for you suggestions. We have three first meetings in the next week, so I should have plenty of opportunity to work on my flirting. Sorry, intuition897, I don't think I can pull off the James Bond or cowboy images, but if The Fuse says she wants to do a little role playing I can always work on it in private. She says she's willing to help me out with in4alook's idea of practicing at the mall so maybe we'll try some of that out.

[Thrax]

Mr. Fuse,
Welcome to the uncertainty of flirting, fellow introvert! Or welcome back…

For quite a large chunk of my early dating and relationships – and those were trying times (not only for me, btw) – I didn’t know how to flirt. I wasn’t assertive enough, I thought. I couldn’t find a topic of interest to her. Or I didn’t know when to move from talking about weather/music/movies/whatever to the nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff. Luckily there were some extroverted women who took pity on me. VERY luckily for me.

Anyway, I had my flirting epiphany a year or two into working for a “professional” firm. Think law/consulting/architectural-type company where you have a lot of high-powered Type A personalities bringin’ in the six-figure salaries. Then there were the rest of us, the support staff. We had a total company staff of about 200 total.

At least once a quarter there would be a big holiday party, reception, cocktail party, or some other shindig for the entire staff and spouses/significant others. It was inevitable that most of the “professionals” (male and female) would peel away from the festivities and talk shop. Many of the professionals’ spouses (more wives than husbands) were young parents and would gather to talk kid stuff. A lot of the support staff would gather in their groups and complain about their bosses. Quite often, whether I had a date or not, I ended up talking with the small group of the professionals’ wives who wanted to talk about anything BUT those topics. Some of the women were child-free, others had advanced degrees that they were just sitting on while they raised the kids, others just wanted to talk about something other than kids and work.

Inevitably, within a few days after these parties I would hear from some of the female support staff members about how much I was flirting with so-and-so (a principal’s wife!). Or that partner’s fiancée! The first few times I was mystified, because I wasn’t trying to hit on any of these women. I didn’t see anything sexual about the conversations. Then I realized that we were having “good” conversation (I guess that would be satisfying social intercourse.) I realized that when I found an interesting topic of conversation (running, home maintenance horror stories, favorite novels, favorite travel destinations) with these women, I lost my shyness and became really engaged in the conversations. I was interested, I paid attention, I smiled and laughed or commiserated, I shared my thoughts, and I listened attentively.

What I hadn’t known is that flirting isn’t necessarily openly sexual and that it doesn’t always have a sexual goal. But flirting is too be interesting, fun, and stimulating for the parties involved. It involves eye contact, smiling, nods of approval or understanding, and good listening. It involves give-and-take: listening to her experiences and opinions and sharing yours.

Flirting is also in the eye of the beholder. And witnesses, if there are any.

So, yeah, several of the women I was accused of flirting with were exceptionally attractive, that if they hadn’t been already taken, I would have been interested. Several would be kindly described at that time as matronly (but as I’m nearing AARP age, I would now see many of them as contemporaries) and I would have had no sexual interest in. But, apparently it was noted by several women how I acted when talking to them, and that was called flirting.

So make of that what you will. If you find topics of conversation that you have in common with your potential swing partner (academics, exercise regimens, pets, food allergies, films, Benny Hill, lawn care products, whatever), then you are golden. Your enthusiasm will probably be evident and overshadow your shyness. If you can’t find a topic of mutual interest, then maybe you’ll find out something about a topic you never really paid attention to like origami, designer shoes, or stamp collecting. As was recommended in previous posts, make eye contact, smile a lot, be a good listener, and be yourself. People love to talk about their interests. Sometimes all they need are a few questions and a ready ear. Paying attention can pay dividends.

And if you can’t find ANYTHING interesting about a potential swing partner, then, of course, she’s not a potential swing partner.

Thrax
P.S. I wrote and re-wrote this over the past few days and I’m still not happy with it. Too bad. Let me know if you have questions.

[The Fuse]

Terrific insight as always, Thrax. My sweetie and I both appreciate all your thoughts, as well as everyone else's. He has been putting them into practice, and will continue to do so. He read your post and definitely started thinking about what you wrote. Thanks.

[Mr. Fuse]

Dito to what the love of my life said. I was thinking of your advice, Thrax, during a platonic meeting we had the other night. I felt that she and I hit it off best when we were discussing topics of mutual interest and I was really engrossed in the conversation, and would forget that I was supposed to be afraid to make eye contact and keep my personality bottle up. Unfortunately, that was about the only chemistry going on at the table.

I haven't had a chance to try the strategically-timed touching of the hand or arm, but it's been done to me a couple of times recently and danged if ain't like a little zap of electricity right through the whole body!

Originally Posted by Thrax

Mr. Fuse,
For quite a large chunk of my early dating and relationships – and those were trying times (not only for me, btw) – I didn’t know how to flirt. I wasn’t assertive enough, I thought. I couldn’t find a topic of interest to her. Or I didn’t know when to move from talking about weather/music/movies/whatever to the nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff.

Strangely enough, I've discovered that a good topic of shared interest is . . . swinging! I've been surprised how comfortable I am talking to the other woman, and the man, about swing-related topics, such as how long they've been contemplating trying the lifestyle (if they're newbies), what kind of good advice they can share (if they're not), etc. We Fuses always make sure we put in a plug for this board.

I think in the distant past when I was single and dating, a lot of the lack of comfort during dating came from all the uncertainty: is she interested, is she not, am I acting too interested, etc. Now, I know she's at least a little interested because she saw a picture of my butt and she still showed up! Also, you don't have to worry about when to switch to the nudge, nudge, wink, wink stuff; you're already there!

[BorisNatasha]

This is one of the best threads I've read on this board for a long time. Thanks everyone for your input. Flirting is always something I've had trouble with, while Natasha can flirt as easily as breathing. This thread has definitely given me some things to think about.

Boris

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by BorisNatasha

This is one of the best threads I've read on this board for a long time. Thanks everyone for your input. Flirting is always something I've had trouble with, while Natasha can flirt as easily as breathing. This thread has definitely given me some things to think about.

Boris

Mr. Fuse and I are both very glad you enjoyed this thread. The ideas on it are serving him well. As we meet more couples and the ladies are showing more interest in him, I can feel his confidence growing .

He got in a great line last night during a first meeting. The gentleman was giving his wife a good-natured hard time by saying "Yes, she used to be really pretty." Mr. Fuse came back with "Oh, you're talking about five minutes ago, right?" I couldn't believe my ears. I just leaned in, pointed to my sweetie, and said, "I married him". She said she could tell why I did .