Why swinging is not for me

[Tempest419]

Hi folks...

The Husband and I haven't been on a while, sorting things out and deciding where we needed to go next. We were swinging up until December and pretty active when complications evolved and we both stepped back to take a good look at things... and have since decided this is not the permanent road for us. Me probably more surely than the mister... he recently thought "Maybe we could do it again in a few years" as recently as mid-February... Grrrrr... so we are STILL having complications from this lifestyle, though working hard to get past some things and integrate its lessons. My biological clock is tickin' and my little one's turning three soon, and I've really wanted to expand our family but unfortunately, that's another thing on hold as we try and move out of the aftershocks of our experiences last Fall. Take heart, newbies!

I have been so wanting to forget things that I wasn't going to come back... unfortunately I keep getting chased in my dreams so I think there's something I needed to come back and do. Closure, I suppose? I might reflect what some other woman is thinking, and I might be able to give a man insight into their wife's heart. Who knows. I do know that even though people experience very painful things with this lifestyle, they often just keep on going, turned on and probably not thinking right. So while there are many couples who apparently make swinging work for them, the advice here is great, the people here are supportive, and communication is an absolute MUST.... sometimes you can talk all damn day and you're just speaking Greek while they're in Chinese. You can translate all day... but something gets lost along the way. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus, right?

What I've Learned:

1) Follow your gut. No negotiating. This is, as far as I'm concerned, the most important factor. My first and second reaction to Husband's prodding to look at this lifestyle were very negative, and came straight from my instincts, which, if you believe in the subconscious, indicates what are our deepest, truest feelings. By his third shot... I negotiated the idea. Yes, You Who Want To Swing have the right to nicely ask, and to gently suggest, and timidly quote... blah, blah, blah... we've all read the advice. But pressure is pressure by any other name. It was obviously boring at home for him, and I felt threatened, and more open to suggestion. It has also been accurately said here that feelings cannot be rationalized, and I'm in that camp. I have never been a shrinking violet, was always the "aggressor" in getting a date... even when swinging I was the lead. I speak up in meetings at work... that's the mask I wear to the world. I am fearless. And yes, the first two times he brought it up I gave him a predictably negative, emotional response. I guess he just thought I was so "tough" that I could handle it. But where there is a hard shell there is a soft bodied interior. I suppose he was just trying to wear me down or de-sensitize me or something, but I don't think Husband accurately determined how sensitive the ego is, and how much I'd be willing to sacrifice or do for my marriage when I felt truly threatened, emotionally threatened, however primitive or insecure that makes me. I love my husband. And I don't think he anticipated the changes that came with that, because as we went on, I got more comfortable with it while he was having a more and more difficult time with it--specifically, watching me. So guys, if you are the guy trying to convince your wife... you are best advised that there is something to be given up for every pleasure you attain. And you cannot anticipate them, neither one of you... I mean we are talking about sex, love and spouses--it's a veritable minefield.

2) As we got into things, even different situations... it began to lose its "shine." It really began to be like a drug. An addiction. We keep upping the ante, and looking for more. It was consuming our lives... it took over our hobbies. We were obsessed with sex! Tired and slacking at work. The positive is that we had a shared hobby that we were having fun with together.... well, you can accomplish that with racketball. We both agreed that you Are what you Do. And we both began asking ourselves, "What do I want to go to my grave saying I accomplished? That I f--ked a lot?" I guess one could say we could just slow it down and do it every once in a while... but we both found it takes a certain mindset that is hard to take on and off at will and that's why it becomes a "lifestyle."

3) We both found ourselves asking; When the door of possibility is open to sleep with other people, and suddenly the whole world becomes a playground... what makes me so special? The kids? The house? The laundry? Yes, the person who will clean up your puke and bring you soup when you're sick is priceless... but are they sexy? Is that whose pants you can't wait to get into, that you're working so hard to get into, on Saturday night? Shouldn't it be? I began to think about all the time and work and effort we were putting into swinging, time we were spending together, but ultimately I couldn't get away from the fact that it was so he could wet his willy somewhere else... how ironic is that? I felt like I was living in Bizarro world. As much as you are in it together, there is still the goal of at some point getting it on with OTHERS (and yes sometimes I was as excited about the other people, too), and I just really wondered how great our relationship would be if we spent that effort on each other, exclusively, instead.

4) This lifestyle is very much connected to earthly pleasures... the ego. It is very much about power... shared power, relented control, taking control-- how you share it in a partnership... and of course I have always been fascinated by the subject of power, and what it means to really have it truly, personally. I gained a lot of satisfaction from putting on the Venus role for a while. What woman doesn't want to be Venus, even for a while? And guys too... come on, who doesn't want to be Eros, or Mars? (sorry, I'm an archetypist!) Becoming a swinger is like big ole bottle of Insta-Sex Star... as others have surmised even here, it's like being yours or your spouse's personal porn star. It was a potent elixir... it made me feel powerful. But when I really looked at things, it wasn't where I wanted to be powerful. Again, going back to archetypes and my goddess shit... at the end of the day, I want to be Penelope, not Circe; Demeter, not Aphrodite (though husband insists she is part of my make-up . Venus is, after all, the Pantheon representative of infidelity, and venereal disease.

In my heart, there is something to Virtue and Value and being the Only One that appeals to me. In guy language... I'd rather be a proudly owned Mercedes than a Beamer rental any day of the week. You can take the girl out of the South... but you can't take the Southern Belle outta the girl. My pussy is regal and you're lucky to get past the front door.

5) As far as the moral in sharing... I share a lot of things. I share my time with people I like, I watch my friends' kids, I give my hands in donation to a local environmental cause, and when there's a smoking circle going down, I'm happy to share my stash. But sharing my husband? How much are we really asking, here? I remember hearing a quote once that went, "You can go one place with a hundred people, or a hundred places with one person." And you make a choice about that. Well, I didn't have any delusions the day I married about making this person the One. In a very base way, it broke my heart for him to ask to be with others... just the suggestion. Just the truly desired thought on his part. The act for me, then, could never really be destroyed until I went to meet it.

And generally... my preferences in life, something I conveniently thought I could change or rationalize, has always, always been depth of experience, not breadth. On a trip through Europe with friends five years ago, I was the person (and Husband) who chose to spend nine days in Amsterdam soaking up the city, seeing the Van Gogh and the Anne Frank house and sailing the canals, while my friends hopped through four different cities, losing luggage, getting kicked out of cabs and generally having an otherwise shitty time. Quality over quantity, I will choose it every time. The moral being, please look at the overall fabric of your life before going down this path. We both kept finding that the best sex was *always* with each other... so what were we looking for?

6) There are things in this lifestyle that hurt, pure and simple. One of the main problems is jealousy... hurt... pain... and those who struggle with it--it comes up over and over again. I did, my husband did with me. Yet, even as I pored over all the threads of this site last fall, I couldn't help but wonder.... why? Why keep on? And, as literary as she usually isn't... a lyric by Madonna popped into my head; "Pain is a warning that something's wrong." And I know that what I did, and maybe what other women *might* be inclined to do... is numb yourself. To talk yourself down out of that emotion. It may be right for some people, or maybe those two are more easily extricated for others... but separating love and sex to such an extent and degree that you just don't even care anymore... well, it bothered me. And look... pain is a warning to take your friggin' hand out of the fire. Without that feedback... you can really hurt yourself. And this lifestyle is, as many have said, "Purification by Fire."

7) Religion... well I am a pagan but I have a big thing for Mary Magdalene, having grown up as a child of the Christian Church (and I bring this up b/c there are threads here of how people see swinging spiritually) and finally coming back around to her story, being so popular in culture right now. Strong, intelligent, Christian women identify a lot with Mary M. these days because she adds the Sexual element to the Holy. I got away from the Holy part. While I don't see swinging or open marriage as something I would ever advocate, I am not going to stop anyone for whom it works. All I want is the room to live my archetype. And I have been trying so hard to re-claim both the archetypal "Whore" and "Mother" in one being, in my own home, in my life... that I forgot the core of a few things about Mary M.... she was never really a whore, and when she was, it was to one, very special man.

'Nuff said

Sincerely,
Tempest

[Dave_kat]

Tempest,

You post a very well thought out and articulate article. I'm very sorry that you went through things the way that you did, that you discovered apparently quite painfully that the "lifestyle" was not meant for you.

I will not resign myself to a counter argument. In fact I applaud you because you yourself did what many people in the world contemplate and lose sleep over, and found the strength to discover for yourself that it was not for you.

You know for yourself that your husband is the One, the only one you ever desire to be with and to love. I say to you, hold onto that feeling for the rest of your life, and remember that feeling, and use it to keep your marriage strong.

I also say this. Forgive yourself. You chose to explore a side of life that truly is not for everyone in this world. Anything you did, that happened in your experiences will make you a much stronger person in the long run.

Overall, after my rambling, I say this:
"May the best of your past be the worst of your future"

[DBL D]

You guys have it all over me in the smarts dept. and I thank you both for your depth of insight. Tempest, you make a lot of valid points and for someone like you it just didn't work out the way it can for others. I certainly do applaud your efforts and I see a lot of US in your story.

Hope you won't disappear completely, but I guess that's part of the deal. You seem strong enough to hang around, but what would be the point, eh?

Good luck to you in that place called future.

M.D.

[intuition897]

Thank you for your very thoughtful post, Tempest. There are several parts of it that I disagree with, however, simply because I just do not look at things the same way. When it's said that this lifestyle is not for everyone, you and your husband are perfect examples of that. Do I believe that anyone CAN do it with enough hard work? Sure! But for some, the distance from where we are to swinging bliss is much much farther than they feel like going. There's no point in pushing so hard and so far...especially when they just don't want to go there in the first place.

Many of the things you spoke negatively about, like needing to numb one's self, or feeling as though you have to sacrifice some part of yourself to do this for example, are not concepts that I can relate to. But then that's just different people for ya. We see it as a gift we give to one another, not something we guiltily ask for. The polarity is reversed. I am so in love with this man for giving me back control over my own sexuality, that I would grant him anything he asked. Anything. I make no assumptions about your relationship, but this is the way mine works, and why swinging is such a good fit for us. Spiritually, I'm a bit of a rebel. I'm Christian, but I have serious doubts that God and Jesus are the stuffy, obsolete, reserved traditionalists that I think many people see Them as. After much meditation, I've come to terms with my sexuality, and my inner "whore". I've done that by rising above the term "whore", as I believe a whore is someone who abuses those parts of herself (physical, emotional, mental, spiritual) which she should respect, for the sake of worldly gain. I certainly don't feel like a whore, even if I AM open to having sex with more than one person.

Well, we wish you luck in your endeavours, and hope that you guys can fully heal from your experiences.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Tempest419

I do know that even though people experience very painful things with this lifestyle, they often just keep on going, turned on and probably not thinking right.

I remember the issues from this fall for you guys - and I am sorry that you both had to go through them. It was obvious from some of your very early posts that you two struggled to be on the same page with this and in that you have provided a much needed lesson for those who are curious about - and interested in adding - swinging in their relationships.

Swinging is not about power - one over the other. It is about communication, respect and having a "partners in crime" attitude that allows the both of you to define and mold this activity in a way that brings pleasure to you both, for a season.

I was reading an article today that said that based on research, non-monogamous unions are 320% more durable than monogamous ones. But still, the world still points to the train wrecks with eyes wide open and an "A-ha!" in the air. But, the train wrecks are the noisy, ugly, often bloody exceptions to the rule...

When you can not communicate, will not open up, and approach the lifestyle with selfish motives - you are heading for a disaster. When you disrespect your spouse's feelings by telling them that how you want it is the way it should be - or use emotional abuse to coerce them into swinging - or attempt to create polyamourous relationships without the support and understanding of the others involved... Well - that's just asking for trouble...

When done right - swinging removes sex as the central mystery of marriage and replaces it with deeper interpersonal - often spiritual - exploration of your soul mate, which is a greater, richer, more rewarding mystery...

The lesson for people considering the lifestyle would be this - make sure that you and your spouse are on the same page. Make sure you are both going into it for reasons that you both have been 100% honest about and 100% accepting of. If you do not, you may find yourself on the confusing end of an archetype...

Spoomonkey

[jazzyislookin]

Wow very interesting thread! We are very much rookies and this is a hot topic for us. Without going into detail hubby and I discuss these "what if" feelings all the time. We are in a little bit of a different situation. Neither one of us has ever had other partners. With no other experience the lifestyle is something that intrigues us very much to make sure that all of our wants and needs are met. I can respect the fact Tempest that you decided to leave. That being said you still experienced it. I am sure when it was fun and new you both enjoyed yourselves a great deal. Maybe it is not for us either but isn't the experience, good or bad, worth it? Did swinging make your marriage better? Granted you didn't like it but you and your hubby cherish each other more now. You did it together and that is the most important fact. We know so many couples that are divorced because they have affairs on each other (my father included!!) all becuase they thought the grass was greener on the other side. I know that if the grass is greener on the other side my hubby is going to be there to experience it with me. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't but we still feel that it is still worth the try. We'll never know if it works for ourselves unless we experience it. To me I don't think that is a bad thing for us to ponder over or try. These questions and points you bring up are more fuel to feed our fire as we sort this out ourselves. Thank you very much and best of luck.

[Chicup]

Its interesting how something so well written and so obviously true for someone else is so completely wrong for us.

1) Follow your gut. No negotiating.

I suppose this depends on who you are, sometimes my gut is the best way to go, sometimes its a liar

2) As we got into things, even different situations... it began to lose its "shine." It really began to be like a drug. An addiction.

I can understand this really, but it happens in ANY hobby to spend to much energy on. When we feel we have been swinging 'too much' we take a break. It is just a hobby and we have other hobbies.

3) We both found ourselves asking; When the door of possibility is open to sleep with other people, and suddenly the whole world becomes a playground... what makes me so special?

For me, its that she is who she is.

4) This lifestyle is very much connected to earthly pleasures... the ego. It is very much about power... shared power, relented control, taking control-- how you share it in a partnership... and of course I have always been fascinated by the subject of power, and what it means to really have it truly, personally.

Maybe it is what you found attractive in it, but this doesn't even register with our thinking.

5) As far as the moral in sharing.

Sharing with others again is not our motive.

6) There are things in this lifestyle that hurt, pure and simple.

Facing my green eyed monster and slaying it was the best thing in swinging for me.

7) Religion..

Again does not register as a motive or detractor to us.

I post this not to pick appart your post as it is true for YOU. It just goes to show that in fact swinging is not for everyone.

[lovedoctor]

Tempest,

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. It's as important for someone like you, who chooses to "opt out" of the lifestyle to vocalize the whys and wherefores of your decision making process, as it is for those of us who choose to explore further in this "hobby." It's all about learning from each and every experience in life, and this is what you are doing. Try not to regret, but use it as stepping stone to where life takes you next.

Some of this rings so true for what we have experienced, and I'm sure you have also helped others who will not post their thoughts, but just read what you have written and take what they need of your words into their hearts. It's obvious that you have really thought this out and I agree with everyone else who has expressed admiration for your erudite self-expression. Bravo!

~lovedoctor

[Sweet_Candy]

Thanks for sharing and may your journey through life be rewarding. Goodluck!

[sereneiders]

Tempest,

Thank you for sharing with us your toguhts and the reading you have on the lifestyle for you.

As it has been told, I hope to fit here the expression "what doesn't kills you, makes you stronger", in this case for your marriage. And from what I read, I believe you two will have a better relationship because of how you proccessed your experience.

What I find more valuable of your post is something worth to point out and take into account, moreover for curious people who may consider swinging, and it is how swinging it tightly related with the vaules we have, our philosopy, and at last, with the existential problem.

You made a very clever correlation between those things, and when I disagree with your conlussions was because I realized we have a very different point of view about life.

I agree with you about guys coming from Mars and gals from Venus, altough the Venus from your archetype differs from the one in mine. I'd say your archetiped one was made in Mars, while I'd correlate my archetyped venus with the White Goddess, the Nature, the Life itself.

Thinking about my archetypes, I'd say we, guys, coming from Mars, were the ones wanting to own the life generation hability belonging to Venus. We needed to do this because of our own existential problem, to die in peace after reasuring we leave a lagacy witnessing our short existence, a problem gals doesn't know nor have to face since they have such a reasurance for granted by nature. So we come from Mars and end up doing the only we can about this: take control over Venus, decide when she will do what she can do in a way able to "proof" their legacy is our legacy.

The whole conception about "fidelity" and "monogamy" was developed in Mars, as it was the technology leading our civilization: we force the Nature to do thing the way we want it to happen, and not the natural way. We forced the land to produce food at our own peace, as we force the Venuses to produce kids at the peace we wanted them to do it. We exchanged Venuses for goods along history. Marriage was a way to negotiate deals between families ran by Martians. Later on we were unable to prevent these Venusines to be seen as humans, so we developed in Mars the romantic conception for Love, and I mean a conception functional to the preexistent "fidelity" and "monogamy" concepts (BTW, Martians accepted polygamy in some cultures, bot only when one Martian was able to own several Venusses, not otherwise).

Now, most of us stick to this conception, even if being aware of it, because it's the only known ground we have to step over. To be swingers we have to position ourselves in some place regarding to Mars and Venus. We may build a personal conception about Love tho set it appart from sex, the more we manage to set them appart, the more likely we'll takl about reacreational sex, or we may not try to set them appart and we could end accepting polyamoral relationships. To some extent, it seems to me that you took the former way, and once deprived from love, the sex became empty of meaning and a waste of energy worth to be inverted in loving.

I am telling this because we both, when listening from some swingers how and why they set appart sex from love, it sounded to us these settings were somehow artificial, as if they were shifting the "fidelity" boundary postition instead of making and in deepth redefinition for it, and as if you were able to control your feelings in a way that, at lease we know we cannot and wouldn't like to control.

Who do you love the most, Mommy or Daddy? Do I love my friends? Why do we need to tell we love our spouse more than some good friends of us? And when we say so, which aspects of that thing we call "love" are the ones affected by this "more"? Ok, darling, you have my permission granted to fuck with someone else, as long as I am the one you love, against a "vanilla" premise, you have the right to love your friends as long as I am he only one you fuck with. The order of the factors doesn't change the outcome, am I wrong? It seems to be the same sort of artifact devised to reasure we have an special place in our beloved one's heart, while at the same time we say swinging is a matter of trust... but if I trust my wyfe, if I know she loves me and that she's honest about her feelings towards me, why should I devise an artifact, either of them?

And I am not telling we doesn't need any artifact, I don't know if it's even possible to develop a relationship without this sort of artifacts. What I know is, an artifact is able to malfunction under some circunstances. Both the swingers artifacts and the vanilla ones can fail, you cannot guarantee they will work like a Swiss watch for the entire lifetime, and if it fails, then the trust in eachother is the only thing that would enable the couple to fix it, or build a new artifact more switeble for the relationship.

And I believe this is something worth to point out, because most of us began with a "vanilla" style artifact, we change it for another one to be able to approach the lifestyle, and we may change it over and over (even going bak to a "vanilla" style one) to fulfill our marriage requerimients and keep building the relationship. But if someone's artifact prior to enganing in swinging is weak, then the most likely is that the new one you'll make to fit the lifestyle would be even more weaker.

In your first point you give us a good insight of where your original artifact was weak. As for you, there were things that were not negotiable that became negotiable under the sutile pressure you described. You perceived yourself as "being boring to him", and I gess that din't you gave too much to bargain in the negotiation, you played "tought" behind a hard shell hidding the soft bodied interior, after feeling emotionally threatened by your husband, who in turn was unable to accuratelly determine how sensitive the ego is... all of this can be seen as a lack of communication.

We advice to talk, talk, and talk, but we cannot say (perhaps it isn't so clear even for who's giving the advice) to what extent to talk, that it's important to dig deeper and deeper in every answer we provide to every question we have, that we should be able to play the role of the devil advocate when talking, instead of stiking to the first answer we get that fits our inmediate desires. Also, and even when into the lyfestile, that it is important to try to foresight the long term consecuences of what we're doing, try to find out where our current artifact is weak as to be able to diagnose if it's working as both of use expects it to work.

But all of this is true even for a "vanilla" artifact. As for you two, today, Tempest, I am concerned about what you described in the first point, because even with this current artifact you may end up finding yourself threatened with a subtle pressure to negotiate something you don't want to, moreover because of your insecutrities you seem to know you have few chances to make a good deal (if you knew you can get a good deal in ay bargian, you won't be hesitating to negotiate, the hesitation comes from the certanity that you will en up loosing the bargain). Since this seems to be the weakest point, I'd tell you to pay attention to this and to understand that there are no such thing as a subtle pressure, there are pressure, and eventually this pressure that may lead to disaster, and no matter how subtle it is, you two have to learn to recognize and avoid it.

Communication is important (if not the key factor) in any relationship, and it doesn't matter if "vanilla" or swinger, making the best effort to communicating all and everything that makes each one of you unconfortable inside the relationship, for tinny and insignificant it may seems to be at first, worth the price.

I wish you good luck in this new stage in your marriage. Intelligence and bravery are required to express your toughts the way you did, and if you keep doing so, I am pretty sure you wouldn't need the luck.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Tempest,

It is truly great news, that you and your husband have found resolution !!! You came here, asked for input, incorporated what fit, made a mental note of the rest, and figured out what was best for your life and who you (as a couple) are. CONGRATULATIONS !!!! That is what life is all about (to me)

Dbl D had said that he hoped you would stay... I will point blank ask you to PLEASE STAY AND POST. Most "Former" swinger posts are nasty and troll-like offering no real input, you on the other hand have done it all right, and I think your opinion is pricless !!

again Job Well Done !!

Angedky(mr)

[hotrides4u2]

All I can say is "WOW!" As a newbie, I have been somewhat confused about what I want to get out of this lifestyle and whether or not it's truly for me. I think I may have figured out what my man wants out of it... sex with anyone and everyone that will have him, with my permission. Obviously, that's not going to do anything positive for our relationship. After reading lots and lots of posts and especially this post, I asked myself a question... would I be in this lifestyle if I wasn't with my man? I think that's a really important question. It helps us to determine within ourselves if this lifestyle is something we can truly enjoy without guilt and/or moral prejudice. My answer to that question is a resounding YES. I thoroughly enjoy being with people who are so open and honest within their own sexuality. And when a couple can share this experience with each other for all the right reasons, it makes for a wonderful experience for everyone involved. Thank you Tempest, and everyone who has posted, for all the insight. You have all helped me a great deal in determining what I need to do next.
Ms. Hot

[intuition897]

Some great posts here. I know, I know, I posted already, but sereneiders post just triggered a thought: What if coercion is not something that others do to us? What if it's something we allow others to do to us?

In a swinging context, refusing to allow someone to coerce you into something (eg: allowing your partner to "have sex with anyone and everyone who will have [him/her].") would mean that you would have to decide to decide what you were and were not okay with and not allow yourself to be persuaded otherwise...regardless of the means used to "persuade" you. This would mean that if your partner so disrespected you that he/she forced you to choose between the relationship and conceding to his/her selfish desires at the expense of your (mental, spiritual, physical, emotional) health, you would have to stand your ground and say, "To hell with that! I respect myself too much to play a whore, lending out bits and pieces of my soul just to keep someone around who refuses to respect me!" I have had sex with other men - women too! - but I am no one's whore. It's not so much what one does that makes her the whore; it's why and how she does it. I am certain that there are plenty of women in the sex industry who regularly earn an income from selling their bodies, who have more dignity and self-respect than some PTA-council-den-mother-Mercedes-SUV-driving women who live in affluent suburbs, screwing the pool boy behind hubby's back while he's at a conference in Europe. Big difference between selling sex and selling out. At least, that's my opinion. (And yeah, those are stereotypes. I made them that way on purpose.)

Something I wanted to address in Tempest's post that I didn't before:

3) We both found ourselves asking; When the door of possibility is open to sleep with other people, and suddenly the whole world becomes a playground... what makes me so special?

This is one of the best things about swinging. What makes me so special? Knowing for certain that my husband chooses to be with me because of ME...not because he gets pussy whenever he wants it. I don't have to wonder or worry anymore if I'm the best lover in the whole wide world...I KNOW I'm not! And you know what? Knowing that isn't as horrible as I once thought it would be. Do you really think he's going to leave you when he finds out that you're NOT the best lay in the world? Hey, I'm not saying I can't hold my own in the bedroom (and I've gotten plenty of compliments to prove it), and he and I have a familiarity that just can't be duplicated. But I realize that other women may be better at some things sexually than I am. But I'm equally sure that my own skill in certain areas may exceed theirs. So we're even. It's not a matter of being "better than" your "competition"; it's just different.

So if he's not here for the sex...what else is he sticking around for? If this question frightens you, if it seems threatening, perhaps it should be explored further. Do you have REASON to be afraid that he wouldn't choose you again? I mean, it's what you're asking him to do. "Honey, you have your pick of any woman in this room. You're free to have sex with any and all of them. [Keep in mind that some will be better at some things sexually...] Why, with all of these beautiful, intelligent, interesting women, would you choose to come home with me?" Again, it's just my opinion, but I think there's nothing wrong with being on one's toes where character is concerned. You can "let yourself go" in more ways than one. We associate "letting one's self go" with expanding waistlines and sedentary ways, but not developing yourself as a person, continuing to grow intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually, you are cheating your partner out of the enjoyment of living with a beautiful person. Outer beauty is great, and it's part of the package, but we all age and our bodies wind down. When it comes down to the wire, inner beauty is what goes the distance.

[JnCC]

Overall, it was an excellent post. It mirrors many of the concerns my ex- and I had after 7 years in the lifestyle.

So often, people just drop-out of the lifestyle. They stop coming to parties or clubs, don't answer e-mails, don't return calls. If you happen to meet up with them at a non-swinger event, they'll just say "We're taking a break." Too often, it seems, that "break" has something directly or indirectly to do with swinging. It's not often that someone takes the time to 'fess up, and reveal exactly what led them to their decision to place swinging on hold...maybe forever.

Tempest 419 - I hope you'll continue to post in here, as you're perceptions of the lifestyle and the people in it "from the other side," that is, as a "former swinger," would be very interesting to read also.

The only way to really see some things is from a distance...

[getnit2gethr]

I was always puzzled when I heard that swinging wasn't for everyone. I'm not any more. It seems it wasn't for you. I think that a big advantage with this lifestye is that the people in it are generally more honest with their partners, on all levels, and that allows for the building of stronger relationships. This is my first exposure to you and your point of view but I'd say that you are no different in this respect. I hope that you and your husband continue to talk openly about sex and continue to grow together. Best wishes.