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shadowpuppet

Sharing My Partner VS Disliking Men

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Greetings,

I have an unusual dilemma.

I fantasize about sharing my partner for HER pleasure but am hesitant due to the fact

that I'm in no way interested in giving pleasure to another man (either through me, or through her).

Am I the only who thinks this way?

Are there any men here who once had this thought and have moved on?

What are your recommendations?

 

My dilemma lies in the fact that I dislike men, in fact I despise them, YET I fantasize about sharing my partner with another men or even other men. Again for HER pleasure. Of course for me, it would be voyeuristic pleasure. I don't wish to be cuckold, therefore I am always included in the fantasy scenarios. We often simulate DP's and gangbangs with additional dildos added to our play sessions. But the moment I imagine the 'cock' attached to an actual man it turns me off.

 

A little about us.

I am 40, very active and known in the BDSM Lifestyle. I travel to give sexuality and alternative lifestyle conferences and workshops. I also consider that "Live the Fantasy' meaning on a regular basis I have FFM, FFFM, sex slaves, cuckold (of course I'm the Bull).

My partner is 24, and though we have an large age difference this is the best relationship I have ever had in my life. Our relationship is based on transparency and there is nothing that we don't talk about.

The first year together we have played on two occasions with other women. The first in order for my partner to experiment with a woman, which she recognized afterwards that she identifies as bisexual. The second time with a woman that my partner wanted to experiment in dominating, which she found she enjoyed very much.

After a year together we are starting to talk about MMF and couples.

When we talk about her with another man she gets a glimmer in her eyes, and I want to make this fantasy real for her...BUT I'm stuck with my dilemma.

 

Please share your comments if they are productive and positive.

I've done a lot of soul-searching to bring me to where I am and I can honestly say that none of my dilemma has anything to do with jealousy. If this wasn't something I wanted to make real I wouldn't be here typing this right now.

 

Also, I have asked other 'swingers' these questions and I've been told that I'm selfish or to make up my mind, and plenty of other un-helpful comments. Please only reply if you think you can help me get pass this and have something valuable to share or recommend.

 

Thanks,

Best wishes,

Shadowpuppet

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I don't know that positive is a prerequisite for productive, in fact, the opposite is sometimes true, and whether or not it's valuable is up to you to decide. I would just point out that you get what you give. Any swinging encounter that is by design meant to be one-sided probably isn't going to be all that great for either side. So, if you are wanting something for her, but yet at the same time are setting it up to fail, then that seems like something that is just best left undone to start with.

 

Too, I don't think it's really fair to draw someone into a situation that you know up front you are very likely to have issues with. Fantasies are often best left as fantasies, and I think this may one of those cases. You obviously have strong feelings on this, and I think that is going to be very difficult if not impossible to work through.

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Curious if your feelings about men are a lack of sexual interest or a general dislike?

 

There are plenty of men that enjoy sharing their wife/girlfriend without any m/m activity. No cuckholding, just an encounter to make her fantasy come true or heighten sexual pleasure. I quite enjoy being the center of attention of more than one man. Are you able to move past your dislike of men to share her for that reason? Compersion is a funny thing...you might surprise yourself in deriving pleasure from her pleasure even with another man (or men) in the mix.

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I, too, am curious about your general dislike of men. My instincts tell me this is the root of the problem, and should be where you look for answers. I mean, I know that must seem perfectly obvious, but I'm not sure if there's really any other way around it. If you're asking us how to fulfill the fantasy without having to let go of or change your existing feelings about other men being sexually gratified by your partner...frankly I'm not sure if that's possible. They aren't dollies to be posed and played with. They're people, and they have feelings, flaws and finer points. If it doesn't have a human being attached to it, it's called a dildo.

 

Can you think of any men whom you could envision your partner with without seeing red? What is it specifically that it makes you feel? Are you angry? Indignant/offended? Embarrassed or humiliated? Territorial/jealous? Why do you think it makes you feel that way?

 

My husband loves the idea of me being sexually pleased by another man, and I think he feels the same about my giving pleasure to my partner in return. The way we see it, it really has little to do with the other guy (or the other woman, in his case). It's sort of like watching an animal in its natural habitat, going about its business, being thoroughly 100% itself without any interference from us, and there's just something magical about that. I see the way the other woman's body reacts to the same things my husband does to me, and I just feel like saying to her, "I KNOW! Isn't he AWESOME??" The way I see it, that other women gets the rare privilege of getting to experience a taste of him. She doesn't get to keep him, but she gets to walk away with her hair all fucked up and a dopey grin on her face, saying to herself, "Holy shit, what a ride." And I find that thoroughly satisfying.

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I, too, am curious about your general dislike of men. (...) Can you think of any men whom you could envision your partner with without seeing red? What is it specifically that it makes you feel? Are you angry? Indignant/offended? Embarrassed or humiliated? Territorial/jealous? Why do you think it makes you feel that way?

 

In order to be as transparent and open I'm fully aware of why I dislike men. Simply, I've never met one that I could trust or that I admired his charm or intelligence. Also being a man, I know how men think and how we are hardwired.

From a psychological point of view and to help shed some light on why I dislike men, and why I can not trust them in 40 years every male friend I've ever had, every male I've ever known (including my father) proved to be untrustworthy. My father abandoned us a few years after I was born, my stepfather was abusive after my mother passed away. When I was married my best friend slept with my wife behind my back. Every man I have ever known has tried to steal my girlfriends, not SOME, ALL! And it continues today, men are always going behind my back. My current partner allows me access to her personal accounts (email, online accounts) and men that I know will send her messages trying to hook up with her not realizing I read her messages. We are very active in our 'alternative lifestyle' community. It is well known that we are a couple. It should be, it's been a year. And every single time we meet a man in the community within 24 hours he is sending her messages (some explicit) trying to hook up even going as far as saying: 'your boyfriend doesn't need to know'.

We could go on for hours talking about what I've experienced with men in my life and at the age of 40 it's sad to say I do not have one single male friend that I trust to give my house key to and say: 'when I'm away feel free to use my place'. I surely would not be comfortable sharing my girlfriend with him!

 

The way I see it, that other women gets the rare privilege of getting to experience a taste of him. She doesn't get to keep him, but she gets to walk away with her hair all fucked up and a dopey grin on her face, saying to herself, "Holy shit, what a ride.".

 

I appreciate your comment, please don't see this is unappreciative but I seem to always get this response and I dislike it. From a woman's point of view maybe it's different but that's my problem. It's different with men. I can't imagine saying to myself: 'He only gets her for a little while, I have her for life', honestly that's not very comforting. Men are territorial, possessive, collectors. We collect experiences, we possess things. I don't have a problem with the sexual side of sharing my partner it's the fact that a man (who I dislike) is possessing my partner (doesn't matter if it's for a little while or for life - honestly for me it's the same due to the fact that as men when we possess the girl, we possess her for life. Not physically but she is now a part of us, she will live in my fantasies, my desires, my wants. I can say I've conquered this woman and she belonged to me, if even for a moment. Why do you think there are so many male photographers? It's their way of possessing a woman for life (in a photograph) if they can't have her physically.

 

As for 'Holy Shit, what a ride', that's EXACTLY what I don't want another man to say to me. He would be there for HER pleasure. I'm not interested in giving any kind of pleasure to another man (either through me or through her). It has zero to do with jealousy. If you were walking down the street and saw a homeless man, and while approaching you see him take out a whisky bottle and take a swig, would you be eager to give him $100 when he asked for change?

 

I read in another forum someone who described that to share your wife with another man you must have some attraction to the other man (not necessarily sexual but some form of admiration). This I can understand cause If we risk touching skin to skin during the threesome I'd much rather admire the guy than dislike him or be indifferent towards him. Also I'd be less defensive. I don't think I would ever be happy with the fact that I give a piece of my partner that he will take away with him and possess for the rest of his life but at least during the act I'd be able to let go and concentrate on my partners pleasure.

 

Another thing I'd like to state and I've discussed this with my partner is the fact that when we have a FFM threesome EVERYONE is participating, we are all involved. I touch her, she touches her, we are all kissing, fucking,... with a MMF (normally) the energy flow is very closed off. It doesn't circulate. I do not consider myself homosexual,occasionally I'm bi-curious (but aren't all men!) but the possibility of being with a man bring me back to the same thing: 'I'm ok playing with the cock (hell I play with my own), I just don't like what's attached to it'. It would be impossible to explore this as well cause my partner has expressed how it would really turn her off to see me with another man. Which doesn't really matter cause I've explored when I was younger and if in fact I was bisexual it would be 80% women/20% men

 

I hope I'm not coming off defensive, I appreciate all your comments. Looking forward to reading more. This is a difficult issue and I'm hoping to get pass it.

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shadowpuppet, thank you for sharing where your dislike of other men originated and the thought process you experience when you think of another man being with your girlfriend. Sadly, I think that this fantasy you have of sharing her with another man is going to have to be put on hold until your dislike/distrust of other men abates...and this might not ever happen. The dislike/distrust you have of other men is certainly understandable but it's like that saying...if a person keeps finding themselves in a certain situation (for example, constantly breaking up with others, always being in the middle of a dramafest, quitting jobs, etc.) it's not always someone else's fault. It's quite possible that because of your intense dislike/distrust of other men, they pick up on that vibe and act aggressively. Or it could be the group/company of people you surround yourself in and breaking out of that community is what is needed for you to be able to see that not all men are what you have experienced from the past. It could even be the women that you are attracted to. First, it takes two to cheat. Second, the women you are with might always be extremely flirty or sexual toward other men and they pick up on that and play into it.

 

As I said, I absolutely understand why you feel the way that you do but it does sadden me that from the limited pool of men that you are in contact with (and it is limited, even though it doesn't seem like it--there are billions of people on the earth) you cast the rest of the male population out because of the group of bad apples that surround you. I do hope that one day, a few males prove you wrong in your lifetime so your dislike/distrust of the male population goes away.

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As a fellow Dom, could it be that you don't want to give up control of your woman to another man? She is YOURS and not to follow the commands of another man? Maybe think of it as you are telling her to do what you want and the other man is just a tool to achieve that. Just a thought...

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I appreciate your comment, please don't see this is unappreciative but I seem to always get this response and I dislike it. From a woman's point of view maybe it's different but that's my problem. It's different with men. I can't imagine saying to myself: 'He only gets her for a little while, I have her for life', honestly that's not very comforting. Men are territorial, possessive, collectors. We collect experiences, we possess things. I don't have a problem with the sexual side of sharing my partner it's the fact that a man (who I dislike) is possessing my partner (doesn't matter if it's for a little while or for life - honestly for me it's the same due to the fact that as men when we possess the girl, we possess her for life. Not physically but she is now a part of us, she will live in my fantasies, my desires, my wants. I can say I've conquered this woman and she belonged to me, if even for a moment. Why do you think there are so many male photographers? It's their way of possessing a woman for life (in a photograph) if they can't have her physically.

 

As for 'Holy Shit, what a ride', that's EXACTLY what I don't want another man to say to me. He would be there for HER pleasure. I'm not interested in giving any kind of pleasure to another man (either through me or through her). It has zero to do with jealousy. If you were walking down the street and saw a homeless man, and while approaching you see him take out a whisky bottle and take a swig, would you be eager to give him $100 when he asked for change?

 

I read in another forum someone who described that to share your wife with another man you must have some attraction to the other man (not necessarily sexual but some form of admiration). This I can understand cause If we risk touching skin to skin during the threesome I'd much rather admire the guy than dislike him or be indifferent towards him. Also I'd be less defensive. I don't think I would ever be happy with the fact that I give a piece of my partner that he will take away with him and possess for the rest of his life but at least during the act I'd be able to let go and concentrate on my partners pleasure.

 

Another thing I'd like to state and I've discussed this with my partner is the fact that when we have a FFM threesome EVERYONE is participating, we are all involved. I touch her, she touches her, we are all kissing, fucking,... with a MMF (normally) the energy flow is very closed off. It doesn't circulate. I do not consider myself homosexual,occasionally I'm bi-curious (but aren't all men!) but the possibility of being with a man bring me back to the same thing: 'I'm ok playing with the cock (hell I play with my own), I just don't like what's attached to it'. It would be impossible to explore this as well cause my partner has expressed how it would really turn her off to see me with another man. Which doesn't really matter cause I've explored when I was younger and if in fact I was bisexual it would be 80% women/20% men

 

I hope I'm not coming off defensive, I appreciate all your comments. Looking forward to reading more. This is a difficult issue and I'm hoping to get pass it.

 

I'm sure everyone who engages in MMF is different and enjoys different aspects. However, a VERY common theme is the enjoyment of seeing their partner enjoying themselves from a different perspective. The voyeuristic aspect to a MMF is fantastic for those that enjoy it. I can't imagine how you would ever get past the way you feel on this.

 

"It's different with men. I can't imagine saying to myself: 'He only gets her for a little while, I have her for life', honestly that's not very comforting. Men are territorial, possessive, collectors. We collect experiences, we possess things."- That may be true of some, not all. I've fucked my buddies wife and he mine and while it was great, i don't feel a possession of anything, save a fantastic memory.

 

"Another thing I'd like to state and I've discussed this with my partner is the fact that when we have a FFM threesome EVERYONE is participating, we are all involved. I touch her, she touches her, we are all kissing, fucking,... with a MMF (normally) the energy flow is very closed off. It doesn't circulate."

 

I've done both (MMF&FFM). I think the flow and circulation is just fine in a MMF. I thoroughly enjoy going from one end of my wife to the other while still seeing my wife enjoy herself or give pleasure to others. There again is what i was saying earlier-enjoying seeing my wife give and receive pleasure from others.

 

I am 100% hetero and have 0 desire for any male/male contact. If i had to choose 1 threesome over the other, it would be MMF. I just enjoy the voyeuristic aspect and the endless possibilities another dick adds. I could never appreciate seeing my wife with someone i disliked or I didn't feel comfortable with but if it's someone we both approve of it can be great. Until you can feel similarly, i would suggest refraining from such activities. You won't enjoy them and it will create problems in your relationship. Remember, you don't have to change-it's not wrong to feel the way you do. Everyone is different and perfectly entitled to their own feelings and boundaries in this particular lifestyle.

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I've read the post a few times and and the comments that followed which I believe were very constructive. However, the real problem, sorry to say, is you or more specifically your way of thinking. We as individuals are basically internally generating magnets and we attract other people and situations based on how we feel or perceive things. You get back what you put out not the other way around. If you believe something will happen it will happen because you attracted it IE you asked for it.

 

The reason you have never had any good relationships with other men in your life is because you are thinking all men are shit so you're attracting shitty men to you. Also, when you meet a man for the first time don't you think he picks up on the disdain you have for him? You also don't have any respect for him so why should he like or respect you.

 

I'd like to pass along the following in hopes that it will help you attract better things in your life. Any time I feel myself getting negative thoughts or anxiety I read this and it straitens me right out. Actually, I keep it in my work vehicle in plain sight and although it's just a coffee stained, half torn crumpled up piece of paper it is one of the most valuable things I have in my life. I hope it helps you.

 

Whatever feelings you have within you are attracting your tomorrow.

 

Worry attracts more worry. Anxiety attracts more anxiety. Unhappiness attracts more unhappiness. Dissatisfaction attracts more dissatisfaction.

 

AND...

 

Joy attracts more joy. Happiness attracts more happiness. Peace attracts more peace. Gratitude attracts more gratitude. Kindness attracts more kindness. Love attracts more love.

 

Your job is an inside one. To change your world, all you have to do is change the way you feel inside. How easy is that

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Also, I have asked other 'swingers' these questions and I've been told that I'm selfish or to make up my mind, and plenty of other un-helpful comments. Please only reply if you think you can help me get pass this and have something valuable to share or recommend.

 

I'm sorry if you find the truth unhelpful or offensive, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true. So here's my valuable recommendation: Don't swing. Don't even try. You obviously have major issue with trust as a result of childhood abandonment and abuse. I honestly recommend you get some counselling to work through those issues. Until you have they will continue to shape, and damage, all of your relationships.

 

While I fear you will find the comment offensive, you have my heartfelt sympathies and I hope that some day you can heal from the damage that was done to you.

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Seems to me you are new to the swinger life-style or new at being a couple in the swinger life-style. The way you said, You asked other swinger these questions" is a dead giveaway. Yes, you come off as very selfish to me as well. The reason you despise men is because you see them as competition instead of building on a friendship that may lead to a sexual encounter that you trust. You say it's not jealousy and you are correct. It's insecurity. Because you do not like criticism, you feel us swingers have nothing productive to say. I think you are very confused and need to learn more about the swinger life style before you guys decide to move forward. Swinging is suppose to be fun. If you are not going to have fun with it, it's only going to lead to misery. It's not for you guys at this time.

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Wow! I'm actually shocked by all your responses. I am simply asking for some insight or guidance and I'm receiving psychological profiling without any of you knowing me. THIS is exactly what I don't need and why it's taken me at least a year to post on this site due to the fact that it's what I was getting the last time I asked for help. Let me clarify on some points because first you have me all pinned very wrongly and if I am going to get any positive feedback and help on here you need to see me in a different light cause you've all quickly judged me. Very little of you ASKED me questions to probe in order to be understand me or understand my motivations. I've answered on why I dislike men. It's obvious THAT is the core of my problem. I own up to that. Why do we continue to talk about it and that some of you take the defensive? The moment you take the defensive we're off topic and not heading in any direction that is productive to where I'd like to find myself. Why not suggestions like: 'Make a male friend, spend some time with him, tell him of your past issues with men and build some kind of friendship - even if it's only with one man' or 'try meeting a man and learning to be intimate with him, no need to fuck him but spend some time experimenting, masturbating each other or something in order for you to enjoy first giving him pleasure so that when you can lead up to giving him pleasure with your partner'. THAT would be productive. Telling me I'm selfish is NOT productive. Those who called me that please tell me what I'm supposed to do with that. Seriously, I've just read 'you are selfish' and my problem is 'I'm wanting to get pass an issue and asking for help'. Honestly to me THAT does not seem selfish. If I was selfish I wouldn't be here trying to get passed all of this, I would just tell my partner 'keep fantasizing cause we're only going to do things my way'.

 

I've received so many messages I'm going to comment on all of them in this message:

 

It's quite possible that because of your intense dislike/distrust of other men, they pick up on that vibe and act aggressively.

 

I disagree. When I meet anyone (man or woman) I always treat them with decency, respect, I laugh at their jokes, I am affectionate (shake hands, kissing on the cheek). I put all my effort in bonding. Being a Buddhist for nearly 20 years I understand that the person who is in front of me is not one of the people who hurt me in the past and I ALWAYS give people the benefit of the doubt. BUT in my experience in life the more you give to someone the more they are ready to take. I have paid for trips for male friends, I have bought them expensive gifts, I have surprised them with tickets to music concerts or sports events. Yes MEN, I've brought them to fancy restaurants and classy jazz clubs. I've even introduced them to other available women. If you wish to believe that I 'give off negative vibes therefore I'm the reason for what happens to me' go ahead but I genuinely acknowledge that I treat men very well. In fact the man that slept with my wife of 7 years was one of those 'friends' that I paid for trips and treated like a prince. I considered him even a best friend and had a very high regard and respect for him. He would often dine with my wife and I and I think one day in his head he decided he wanted her. When I was at work one night he called her and told her he was going to pick me up after my work and asked her if she would like to join him. She agreed. They met for a drink beforehand, he seduced her (she had always found him attractive, even sexy), and she let herself be. Not because she was lacking at home but because he was charming (I'm sure it helped that he was a millionaire). They kept it from me for over 3 months. You can't say I treated him like shit or disrespected him. Why would someone I treated so well first seduce my wife behind my back, and as a best-friend keep it from me for 3 months!

 

Or it could be the group/company of people you surround yourself in and breaking out of that community is what is needed for you to be able to see that not all men are what you have experienced from the past.

 

I've found 'bad' men in ALL communities, from church-going people to business professionals. From kind quiet people to extroverted people. To say that I hang around a specific kind of people of group couldn't be any more false. I have friends that are rich, some that are not so well off financially. The one thing I did notice is that of the men who have let me down they were either american or canadian (north americans). None of my european male friends ever let me down. PLEASE note that is an observance not a statement. It is neither a generalization that all americans or Canadians are like that. I'm simply stating that what I've experienced is that.

I do in fact have 2 or 3 very good male friendships. Men that respect me and who I respect in return.

But I could never imagine sharing my partner with them. It would break that strong bond and trust we have in each other. One of the reasons that I have a strong friendship with them is due to the fact that they have never hit on my partner and I'm 100% sure they would never. I know it, I feel it and we've discussed it. Knowing they would never, I would be stupid to offer my partner to them. It just wouldn't be done.

 

It could even be the women that you are attracted to. First, it takes two to cheat.

 

Again same answer as before. I've dated ALL kinds of women. Different ages, different social status, different education and so forth. I can honestly say that when I was living in vanilla (and I mean vanilla from a BDSM point of view) I was always a good partner but I restrained my dominant side cause in the vanilla world Dominance = asshole, control creak, etc. I wanted to offer equality in our relationship not control them. So I can honestly say that 90% of women who cheated on me gave me all the same response to my question of 'why?'. Their answer: 'I didn't really want to, but he was pushy, and he kept trying to get with me and I thought if I'd give it to him he'd leave me alone.' I'm not stupid, I know women. This is part truth. Yes there's the side where a man came into her life and 'dominated her' into a sexual position, but I also know that they wouldn't have gone through with it if they didn't want to (they would have said 'he raped me', rather than 'I didn't want to'. That was their way of trying to cover up the shame, or guilt and responsability of having broken the sanctity of our relationship.

 

Second, the women you are with might always be extremely flirty or sexual toward other men and they pick up on that and play into it.

 

I've only had ONE female partner to date who was extremely flirty and sexually forward towards men. I believe she had a cuckold fantasy and didn't realize it. The others were very reserved, shy, even some who extroverted but never flirted (at least not when I was around).

 

it sadden me that from the limited pool of men that you are in contact with (and it is limited, even though it doesn't seem like it--there are billions of people on the earth) you cast the rest of the male population out because of the group of bad apples that surround you.

 

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I cast all male population out because of a few bad apples. I simply said I dislike men. It's a personal emotional response. And I'm allowed to my sentiments. I always give men the benefit of the doubt, and without my contribution they find a way to let me down. It's not a self-fulfilled prophecy. I add nothing to the equation. I live my life and they make decisions in their lives. If I bring a friend to the Bahamas for a week all expenses paid, I bond with him, I share stories of my childhood, I truly make the effort to bond with him and within weeks of returning he tries to seduce my partner I don't exactly see what I could have possibly done to 'cause him to deceive me'.

 

As a fellow Dom, could it be that you don't want to give up control of your woman to another man? She is YOURS and not to follow the commands of another man? Maybe think of it as you are telling her to do what you want and the other man is just a tool to achieve that

 

Thanks, fellow Dom for sharing your opinion. You are right, I'm caught between my role as Dominant in the BDSM Lifestyle and Life partner in everyday life. There is a very sacred D/s relationship when she wears her collar (and we are VERY involved in the community) so when it's time to take the collar off and we're on equal grounds it makes it very difficult for me to know where I stand with possessing and owning my partner.

My partner has been with men who have had very big cocks, some 14 inches long, some extremely thick. So she has learned that she enjoys big dick. Though I have a very decent girth and measure 6 inches, I realize that on occasion she would like something big for variety. I've recently purchased a hollow strap-on that is HUGE. It's become her new favourite 'toy'. She doesn't always want it big but when she does she reaches for that. I've tested her by sending her photos of men with big penises and asked her if she would like that I would present her a dick that size in real life. Her response: 'I'd rather play with the strap-on'. So right now that is the tool to achieve variety or 'something else'.

She is very attractive and is always being hit on, either in public, random men on facebook and other sites and by ex lovers and ex boyfriends. Though she likes the attention she becomes a solid wall if the man literally thinks he has a chance. 'Look but don't touch', and she becomes quite dominant if a man tries to dominate(/seduce her). To date she is the first woman I have trusted will not deceive me.

Recently (after a year) I allowed my partner to have a rope suspension with a Dom I had only recently met. I am never ok with my partner being Dominated by another man so I figured I would allow her to have a session with this man since she was just going to be tied up and suspended. During the scene the Dom began Dominating her. This is when I realized how much I really disliked another man controlling or Dominating my partner. We even talked about it later and I told her I would have much more preferred watching him fuck her than him Dominating her. It's a thing of 'energy', his energy was mixing with hers and it made me nauseous. At least sex is just an animalistic act, there is some energy flow but now as intense an energy as in a BDSM scene.

 

 

 

Remember, you don't have to change-it's not wrong to feel the way you do. Everyone is different and perfectly entitled to their own feelings and boundaries in this particular lifestyle.

 

Thanks for this. It's nice to see something positive. Though I don't want to change who I am, I'd like to open up my way of thinking on this subject in order to better enjoy my life, to bring joy to my partner and to unlock a certain something that is currently a 'closed door' in this house of life that my partner and I are building. This is where I/we are at the moment. It's not where I want to be months or years from now.

 

 

You wouldn't be the only one to know what your partner looks like naked; if you don't like the idea of other men "owning" a visual of your partner naked, for example, you might be best to stick with monogamy.

 

Trust me it's not a hang up on having my partner seen naked. In the past year she has been seen naked by hundreds, possibly thousands of people. We are active in our BDSM community and she spends most of those events naked or near naked. We also travel in order to give sexuality and alternative lifestyle conferences and workshops and often she is naked in front of a crowed of 100 people ore more. My analogy was simply with the fact that men are very visual. It had nothing to do with my partner. She has nearly 100 naked or nearly photo on her community profile and she enjoys the attention, she is a beautiful woman and I'm pleased that she is getting the attention.

 

 

If you were walking down the street and saw a homeless man, and while approaching you see him take out a whisky bottle and take a swig, would you be eager to give him $100 when he asked for change?

I'm not sure I'm picking up the parallel in the analogy. Do you see men, generally speaking, as beggars? Always asking for something and giving nothing in return? I wonder if it's a matter of seeing only what you're determined to see. You believe this of men, and so it's all you see? There are men of integrity out there.

 

My analogy was about 'merit'. I would be pleased to share my partner with a man who merit time with her. To choose just any man or even any 'nice guy' for that matter is not enough of a merit. I value my partner and can say that I worship her (not in a submissive way). It's about quality, not opportunity. She would agree with me. I mentioned the scenario above about the photo I showed her of the guy with the big cock, even if she likes big cock there better be a respectful and worthy man connected to it if he's going to be sharing our bed.

 

I think the hang-up seems to be the idea of ownership. I would suggest exploring that. You may dislike my suggestion, but that's probably because it's the thing you know you should do.

 

Yes, it's about ownerships. And as I mentioned earlier I'm in conflict between two roles (her Dominant in the BDSM Lifestyle and our everyday life when the collar comes off. Where does Ownership belong in an equal-opportunity relationship? The more I think about it as her Dom, I enjoy this role it's natural but I'm a very open-minded and respectful person I'm happy with her being independant (sans-collier). That's a really weird place to be. Where do I fit in? She is not going to take her independant ass out to find lovers, and she is my partner but I don't actually 'own' her. It's conflicting and confusing.

 

We as individuals are basically internally generating magnets and we attract other people and situations based on how we feel or perceive things. You get back what you put out not the other way around. If you believe something will happen it will happen because you attracted it IE you asked for it.

 

Yes I agree with you. We are naturally attracted to others and others to us. It's up to us to welcome them to our inner circle or to put up barriers. In a relationship we put up agreed-upon barriers (I won't date anyone else, I won't start a relationship with someone else, I won't fuck someone behind your back...). I'm all for positive energy and I'm pourring it in to our relationship as often and as much as I can. Our relationship is wonderful. We are celebrating our first year anniversary tomorrow (saturday). My partner was telling one of her friends that we have been together for one year. Her friend asked: 'so how are things going, what is your relationship like?' my partner's answer: 'It's WOW!!!!!' Her reaction made my heart flutter. Truly. It was confirmation that all the effort, all the positive energy I was putting was paying off. How many women answer that when asked how their relationship is?

 

The reason you have never had any good relationships with other men in your life is because you are thinking all men are shit so you're attracting shitty men to you. Also, when you meet a man for the first time don't you think he picks up on the disdain you have for him? You also don't have any respect for him so why should he like or respect you.

 

I'm sorry but unless your certified psychologist I'd like to ask you to please refrain from answering with a tone like you are providing me with a psychological diagnosis. 'The reason you are like this is because'. Seriously? Is that really how you choose to talk to a stranger? I treat men with 10x more respect than the average man. Believe me. There is no disdain, there is no hatred in my eyes. Deep in my heart and memory there are scars but on the surface I give every man the benefit of the doubt and treat them VERY well. I'll give you an exmaple. I once met a man at an art expo, he was of course an artist. We talked for some time. That week we met for a coffee and talked about his career and his dreams. He shared some of his dreams, of course I couldn't make them all come true. One was for his works to be published in his favourite magazine. Having many contacts 'in important positions' I contacted the magazine and discussed my artist friend with the editor of the magazine. He agreed to do a showcase in a future magazine of this artist. How many men would go that far for another man? So please let off on all the 'you get what you give, if you treat men like shit they'll treat you like shit'. Not everything is black and white. I'm responsable for my shortcoming and I always own up to my faults but please stop justifying men can be selfish, cheats, untrustworthy, liars, thieves. (not ALL men) but it exist in men to be like that.

 

Seems to me you are new to the swinger life-style or new at being a couple in the swinger life-style.

 

Nope, spent 10 years in the swingers' lifestyle. As for being new in the lifestyle as a couple, we are not interested in becoming members of the community. MMF (and FFM) threesomes exist outside of the swinger lifestyle.

 

The reason you despise men is because you see them as competition... You say it's not jealousy and you are correct. It's insecurity.

 

Haha. This has to be the funniest thing I've read so far. Seriously? Competition. I don't understand where you are going with this? I'm very confident in who I and what I have to offer my partner. My insecurites aren't in myself they are in my lack of trust in men. Competition? What would another man have to offer my partner? And how would this relate to 'sex'? are you implying that I'm insecure due to the fact that I feel in sexual competition with other men? That makes no sense to me. My partner would much prefer spending an evening with a dildo than with another man. With regards to performance, she has told me that she has been with very fit and muscular men with big dicks and the sex was awful. She has never complained about my performance, in fact once we finish a session within an hour she wants more (her justification: 'good sex makes me want more!').

I'm really curious on what you meant by competition, please explain to me.

 

Because you do not like criticism, you feel us swingers have nothing productive to say. I think you are very confused and need to learn more about the swinger life style before you guys decide to move forward. Swinging is suppose to be fun. If you are not going to have fun with it, it's only going to lead to misery. It's not for you guys at this time.

 

Uhm? What? I do not like criticism? who does? I never said that 'you' swingers have nothing productive to say. If I thought you had nothing productive to say I would have never signed up to this site in hopes of finding resolution to my problem. I started this post telling you that I have a problem and all I've gotten so far is either redundancy (telling me I have a problem, yes I know that), telling me I'm selfish (that one I don't get cause if I were selfish I wouldn't be here trying to figure a way to get passed this to make this fantasy of my partner real). As for learning more about the swinging lifestyle I think it's important to state that I spent 10 years in the 'swingers' lifestyle', my ex partners and I would go with other couples to clubs, though we wouldn't swap we would have sex side by side. We also engaged in FFM on many occasions. The question I am asking is NOT 'how do I get into the swinger lifestyle?' my question is 'has anyone encountered what I'm going through and how do I get passed it'. I'm not interested in entering the social aspect of the swinger lifestyle and becoming a member of a club. I'm simply wanting to know how to get comfortable with adding another man to my partner and I's play sessions at home.

 

I'm not on here to make friends, nor to enter the swinger lifestyle (or community). I'm simply asking for insight, feedback on the subject at hand (and that's all). Please try to keep my main question as focus point. This thread as turned in many directions leading us into areas that have nothing to do with my initial question. I appreciate you taking the time to answer but with all the commments so far we are completely off topic so I will restart so we can get back on track:

 

Greetings,

I have an unusual dilemma.

I fantasize about sharing my partner for HER pleasure but am hesitant due to the fact

that I'm in no way interested in giving pleasure to another man (either through me, or through her).

Am I the only who thinks this way?

Are there any men here who once had this thought and have moved on?

What are your recommendations?

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"Greetings,

I have an unusual dilemma.

I fantasize about sharing my partner for HER pleasure but am hesitant due to the fact

that I'm in no way interested in giving pleasure to another man (either through me, or through her).

Am I the only who thinks this way?

Are there any men here who once had this thought and have moved on?

What are your recommendations?"

 

I will just address this as your requested and try to add some positivity as requested.

 

I have not met anyone who thinks this way. I've been swinging six years and have met hundreds of couples.

 

My recommendation is to find a good counselor to work through your intense dislike of men (and possibly dislike of yourself since you are a man too) so you can have a happier existence. This dislike of an entire group of people is not typical and not a good way to go through life. What would you tell someone if they said they had an intense dislike of X race, and they were that race?

 

On a positive note, you have taken the first step in addressing a problem in your life/relationship and it's entirely possible that with help and self-reflection you may find that your life is improved by not disliking half the population. Clearly swinging is a long way off, but the mind and heart are amazing organs and maybe in the future your feelings will change.

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OK...

 

Am I the only who thinks this way?

Yes.

 

Are there any men here who once had this thought and have moved on?

No.

 

What are your recommendations?

Don't swing. Some fantasies are better left fantasies. Also, get counseling.

 

Do you want me to any clearer?

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OMFG, I just spent, like, an HOUR doing a lengthy post in reply to shadowpuppet and my POS computer crapped out on me and wouldn't load the page. Lost the whole thing. %#@!$#!!

 

So I'll give you the 2 cent version:

 

First of all, congratulations on your 1 year anniversary! I am really glad to hear that you share such a loving, trusting, dedicated relationship.

 

The question I am asking is NOT 'how do I get into the swinger lifestyle?' my question is 'has anyone encountered what I'm going through and how do I get passed it'.

 

You are asking this of a swinger community, a body of people whose views are quite different from the BDSM community. I don't feel that we left the topic; we offered a pretty detailed assessment of what we feel are the root causes of feeling the way you do, which is the first step in finding a way to get past it. I think it boils down to this: do you or do you not want to relinquish control over your partner? If you don't, you may find it difficult to enjoy swinging (or 3somes as the case may be) as fully as you could.

 

You mentioned that you have some close male friends whom you trust and respect. You said you would never participate in such activity with them, but for the sake of argument, have you tried to envision a hypothetical 3some with any of them? It doesn't mean you should do it - in fact we avoid fucking our close friends - but just to explore how you feel about a situation like this.

 

Another thing I seem to be hearing: you seem to be the person who is primarily doing the hunting, approving and initiating. Typically women in the lifestyle take this upon themselves and lead the way. Have you tried this with your partner?

 

You have said that you are experiencing some conflict between those times when the collar is on or off. This is probably best asked of your BDSM bulletin board. In truth, I just can't wrap my head around the idea of giving up my free will to anyone, my husband included. It would feel like I had betrayed myself at my core, and I would lose respect for anyone who asked it of me. But for those who enter into such a relationship consensually, I can see how it might work for them.

 

I wonder if it's something in the D/s dynamic that seems to spark this aggression in other men? Like you said, in the vanilla world, a dominant personality is often seen as something of an asshole. You say your relationship is on level ground when the collar is off, but it's just part of your personality. People can pick up on the subtleties of that, whether you intend for them to or not. Mayhaps the other men "smell" that on you, and find themselves compelled to take you down a notch or two. People are animals and they play their territory/power games; there's so much that we do that's unconscious.

 

So why do these men keep betraying you? You sound like a very generous, giving individual. I have a friend like you, who wears her heart on her sleeve. She plucks her heart from her chest and plops it on a silver platter, bleeding and still beating, for others to do with as they will. The trouble is, she does this with everyone indiscriminately, and more often than not, they dump it in the dust and step on it, leaving her devastated. Why do they do this to her? Because she means less to them than they do to her. Because she hopes and prays they won't hurt her, but they do it anyway, instead of expecting them to fuck her over and pre-forgiving them for it. I do trust others, often more than I should, but I fully accept that my heart may end up squashed and covered in dirt. I don't expect others to do more than this, because people are stupid and fallible, and don't know what's good for them. I just provide raise my expectations of them in the hope that they will do the same for themselves.

 

I have no idea how much help I'm being here. It's Friday night and it's been a long frigging week.

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Hi Shadowpuppet,

Interesting thread.

I read your replies twice just to make sure I am not missing anything but I probably did anyway. Some of the posts before me have certainly touched upon some of the things that went through my mind. Here are my thoughts:

 

 

Also being a man, I know how men think and how we are hardwired.

From a psychological point of view and to help shed some light on why I dislike men, and why I can not trust them in 40 years every male friend I've ever had, every male I've ever known (including my father) proved to be untrustworthy. My father abandoned us a few years after I was born, my stepfather was abusive after my mother passed away. When I was married my best friend slept with my wife behind my back. Every man I have ever known has tried to steal my girlfriends, not SOME, ALL!

 

This is generalization. While many men are assholes, that certainly is not all. I, like you, have dealt with many issues in my childhood and adulthood so I can relate to your frustration, disappointment and lack of trust. I've found for the large part of my life that not having any expectations have helped me not being disappointed. I trusted and relied only on myself. While it's was not the best way to live my life, it did provide a safety net and bought me some time for some healing to take place. Every person is unique and what worked for me may not necessarily work for you. I was over 30 when I started seeing a therapist and if he was able to help a stubborn, opinionated and insecure messed up fuck as me and in the midst of my divorce, I am sure you have a much better chance than me, if you ever decide to take that route.

 

Thanks, fellow Dom for sharing your opinion. You are right, I'm caught between my role as Dominant in the BDSM Lifestyle and Life partner in everyday life. There is a very sacred D/s relationship when she wears her collar (and we are VERY involved in the community) so when it's time to take the collar off and we're on equal grounds it makes it very difficult for me to know where I stand with possessing and owning my partner.

 

Based on what you said above (in bold), it would seem that you feel a lot more secure when in your dom role. I can definitely understand that - I have dabbled a bit in the BDSM lifestyle. Being in full control of another human being is such a trip! It requires a significant trust from your partner. It does not, however, require you to trust your partner, since you're the one in control. I think BDSM just buys more time, as we find relationship that we can twist so that they work for us but does not actually help us resolve or even understand the underlying need for dominating. Some do it bc they are born that way. Others do it bc they feel safer in such relationship. And others do it to fill a void, deficiency or gap left by other people or events. Do you know why you do it? Have you tried being the sub? That will challenge your abilities to trust someone, more so than swinging ever would. BC to be truly a sub, you really have to open your soul and offer your most inner essence to the dom, to do with it as he/she sees fit. In comparison, IMHO swinging takes a lot less out of you in regards of trust. What's the worst that could happen in swinging? What exactly scares you about it?

 

 

Recently (after a year) I allowed my partner to have a rope suspension with a Dom I had only recently met. I am never ok with my partner being Dominated by another man so I figured I would allow her to have a session with this man since she was just going to be tied up and suspended. During the scene the Dom began Dominating her. This is when I realized how much I really disliked another man controlling or Dominating my partner. We even talked about it later and I told her I would have much more preferred watching him fuck her than him Dominating her. It's a thing of 'energy', his energy was mixing with hers and it made me nauseous. At least sex is just an animalistic act, there is some energy flow but now as intense an energy as in a BDSM scene.

 

Is it really the energy? Or is the fact that your sub is allowing other doms to take care of her needs and liking it? Would you have been happier/more relaxed if she had resisted him until the end so that you feel you were the only owner of her? From my experience, I loved sharing my sub (when I had one). It was the ultimate form of control. I didn't care about how the other dom felt as I knew they will do what it takes them to be pleased. What I loved most was pushing the boundaries of my sub and seeing how far can I take things in a way that the sub always derived pleasure. And I've tried being the sub too. I loved relinquishing control of my pain and pleasure to someone else. It was liberating. But I couldn't do it with everyone, I could only do it with people I trust. And another thought - have you realized that the sub has the actual control? The subs decides to willingly submit and it is the sub that can put a quick stop to everything you're doing. They are the ones that are pushing their own boundaries and you're just an instrument to them.

 

 

Yes, it's about ownerships. And as I mentioned earlier I'm in conflict between two roles (her Dominant in the BDSM Lifestyle and our everyday life when the collar comes off. Where does Ownership belong in an equal-opportunity relationship? The more I think about it as her Dom, I enjoy this role it's natural but I'm a very open-minded and respectful person I'm happy with her being independant (sans-collier). That's a really weird place to be. Where do I fit in? She is not going to take her independant ass out to find lovers, and she is my partner but I don't actually 'own' her. It's conflicting and confusing.

 

 

This is a good one. It's not a weird place. You're just standing in two different worlds. You have to be able to compartmentalize if you want both. Ownership have no place in an equal opportunity relationship. In a dom role you decide everything for her. In a normal relationship she has her own opinion, choices and views and that's the way it's supposed to be. If you really love her, you should encourage her to be who she wants to be. Remember, you don't own her. You have to learn to trust her. If you can't do that, then you're not ready for vanilla world IMO. Focus on why can't you trust her. In normal world, people don't take well to orders and you may have to verbalize things differently: for example, instead of "I forbid you to sleep with him" you may have to specify that if she does this and that you will feel betrayed or hurt. You don't have control over her anymore so that makes you a lot more vulnerable, doesn't it?

 

 

She is not going to take her independant ass out to find lovers

 

I am not really sure I understand what's the problem here. If she doesn't want to find lovers, she won't. It's her choice after all. Why is this so important to you?

 

 

 

I fantasize about sharing my partner for HER pleasure but am hesitant due to the fact that I'm in no way interested in giving pleasure to another man (either through me, or through her).

 

If you fantasize about something that doesn't mean that she would enjoy it. The way you said it, it seems that this is your fantasy, not hers. WHat does she want and what does she fantasize about? If this is about her, then make it about her. Don't get sucked in your own fantasizes. Find out what hers are and see if you could make them happen.

The second part is confusing to me. You're not bringing another man to please him - that's the BDSM part in you talking. In normal life, you will bring another man/men for HER pleasure. The fact that they also like it is a necessity. If they didn't, why would they be there? You can't have your cake and eat it too - if you want them to pleasure your gf they will also need to derive a pleasure from the act. If you're not ok with that, perhaps you should stick with the dildo.

 

 

Another thing I'd like to state and I've discussed this with my partner is the fact that when we have a FFM threesome EVERYONE is participating, we are all involved. I touch her, she touches her, we are all kissing, fucking,... with a MMF (normally) the energy flow is very closed off. It doesn't circulate. I do not consider myself homosexual,occasionally I'm bi-curious (but aren't all men!) but the possibility of being with a man bring me back to the same thing: 'I'm ok playing with the cock (hell I play with my own), I just don't like what's attached to it'. It would be impossible to explore this as well cause my partner has expressed how it would really turn her off to see me with another man. Which doesn't really matter cause I've explored when I was younger and if in fact I was bisexual it would be 80% women/20% men

 

 

This is confusing. Let me try to break it down a bit. You're ok with FFM bc the energy flows. DOes it flow bc you can play with both and both can play with you? So it's like a holiday for you... :-) What's so different between that and MFM? Is it the fact that it's all about her and you;re just another guy at that time? Not center of attention anymore?

I've had MFM 3-some and I have to tell you that at least for me the energy was flowing just fine. I was sensing her excitement, desire, naughtiness, I sensed his horniness and attempt to hold back when he got close several times... it was like I was 3 separate people at that moment. I was so turned on and I was so aware of everything... it was amazing. Their desire propelled mine and mine - theirs..... Maybe we lucked out with a decent guy, I don't know. But I know the energy flow was not interrupted in any negative way.

 

Also, about the MM play, wHat difference does it make who the cock is attached to? You're not marrying the guy, after all, you're only satisfying your own sexual urges. Is she turned off from seeing you with another man bc that would take away the dom reputation you have? And if yes, does that concerns you? After all, you are her dom, you should be able to do whatever you want... yes? I am confused....

 

------------------------------

 

I guess I will try to share my experience in the hopes that it may offer another POV for you: I bring guys to my girl bc she fantasized about it, she loves the attention, she loves seeing them being hard and horny FOR HER, she loves being ravished with desire. It makes her feel wanted! Now, this is as pure and as animalistic as it gets. Was it easy for me to get there? Fuck no, but I love her and I have experienced all kinds of things in my previous relationships so it was only fair to shove my insecurities and fears under the bed and help her fulfill her fantasies. I guess in a way the BDSM part in me sometimes likes whoring her out and if that's actually the case then we are a match made in heaven :-)

 

And it's worth mentioning that it was a rocky ride at the beginning for me. Reading this forum helped me a lot. I am now a lot better and stronger person than I've ever been and I have her and this forum members to thank. I would do almost anything for her bc I love her and if she decide to leave me, so be it - at least I'll know I've given it my best.

 

Living your life in the shadow of past hurtful and abusive events will always rob you from the ability to live your life to its fullest. Funny, the moment I realized that was the moment I lost 90% of my interest to the BDSM lifestyle. But here's my question: is that how you want to live your life??

 

 

Sorry for grammar, typos, etc. I think I've mentioned it before - I am an ESL case, lol.

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Wow! I'm actually shocked by all your responses. I am simply asking for some insight or guidance and I'm receiving psychological profiling without any of you knowing me. THIS is exactly what I don't need and why it's taken me at least a year to post on this site due to the fact that it's what I was getting the last time I asked for help.

 

I'm sorry you feel we've been judgmental, psychoanalyzing, and unhelpful. I think as swingers where the dynamic is give and take in a relationship we fail to understand where you are coming from in a BDSM relationship. I applaud your efforts in posting your situation here for others to dissect and your openness about your feelings. I am guessing you don't wish to pose this same question in your BDSM community because you are well-known there and this is just too personal. I wish you found more value in the comments here - we are a genuine bunch and truly try to give the best advice we can based on our own experiences. However, you walk a different path than we do and I suspect that's the crux of the perceived disconnect.

 

I hope you've found some value in the discussion and come back to join the conversation.

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I don't think it's entirely clear what you're asking for. In one post, it seems you're looking for advice on how to deal with your disdain towards men (I say "seems" because you never actually expressly state that's what you're looking for). But then after receiving some decent suggestions on how to go about doing just that, you criticize the advice.

 

On the other hand, you tell us you know exactly why you dislike men because of some shit in your past and recurring experiences...yet all the while simultaneously telling us you martyr yourself for men by lavishly treating them to trips, professional hook-ups, etc. And of course they all treat you like dicks in response (right).

 

So my question: if you already know what your problem is and you already know the source of the problem, and you also know that any advice you've already received here is insufficient (based on your 'only give productive advice' disclaimer) what then, are you asking for?

 

Look, dude, we're not your 'sub'. To come to this board with a preconceived opinion that the advice you'll receive is bullshit, so much that you feel it's necessary to direct everyone's responses and then continue to criticize it with a tl;dr diatribe isn't only presumptuous, it's offensive. Take the advice you receive for what it is (anonymous, informal) and be thankful; use it if you want or not, whatever. You want something better? Seek professional help. That's your prerogative. But at least realize that every single person who responds on this board can only do so by taking time out of their lives to focus directly on you (and some of these responses are pretty fucking long, intuition897 lost an hour of her life)...don't then turn around and do exactly what you're saying men do to you, which is be an ungrateful, controlling dick. I apologize if any of that's harsh or equally offensive. There are a lot of fantastic, intelligent and compassionate people on this board and your approach to them really irks me.

 

Now that I've said that, you'll probably not listen to this, but here is my recommendation to your problem anyway. It seems your approach to BDSM makes you incompatible with what's required for a good swinging experience. To invite another person (man) to have an equal sexual experience with your partner means he's gonna get pleasure out of it, regardless of how you feel or what you want (well, unless you totally sabotage it, I guess) So, since you have it all figured out and you're experienced in these lifestyles, then the only course of action is to jump right in! Temporarily shed your BDSM mentality, start inviting other dudes over and just go at it with them and your partner! Watch them both get pleasure out of it and check your negative emotions. Then communicate with your partner not as D/s. Talk about everything! Then, do it over and over and eventually you'll either habituate to it (or hopefully love it), or you'll never get used to it and continue to hate it. At that point you'll have a better idea of the direction to take your swinging activities.

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Maybe it is far more simple. Why bother going for a MMF if you are not ok with a most important part, the other man, of it? You two seem to enjoy lot's of different ways to enjoy your sexuality, this particular way is not working. Then don't do it. The same goes for MFM probably.

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...and some of these responses are pretty fucking long, intuition897 lost an hour of her life

 

Granted, that's my own fault for being a windbag...and for not remembering to copy and paste before hitting 'submit'. Gotta work on that.

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