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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Wow. Such judgements being made based on words that were written by someone who is trying to open up.

    I've been reading this board for a couple of years now. Yes it's been voyeuristic but I've been trying to learn.

    I've read many posts by some of the people who have responded to DKent and I'm frankly disappointed. Some of you need to take a good look at yourselves condemning this man. When one of you is sure that you're perfect and you've never done anything wrong then perhaps you can condemn him.

    DKent I can understand why you've done what you've done and I understand your frustration. I *don't* think you're being selfish I think you are expressing what you believe you need and you've clearly understood that you can't find it where you looked in the past. How dare you express and try to be open eh ?

    Good luck DKent.

  2. #17
    Laura's Male VegasLee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by applevenus
    Wow. Such judgements being made based on words that were written by someone who is trying to open up.
    Yes, he wants to open up to everyone except the only one that counts. His Wife.

    He can not tell her the truth about what he has done to her their whole married life.
    You all laugh at me because I am different. I laugh at all of you because you are all the same.

  3. #18
    Chimpin' Ain't Easy Spoomonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by applevenus
    How dare you express and try to be open eh ?
    Being open takes a bit of courage - the courage to make yourself vulnerable to unvarnished truth. The truth is, he isn't going to swing because his marriage lacks a couple of things - communication and trust. Without those, none of us would be swinging...

    I communicate with my wife - and she knows that she can trust me and my motivations to swing. If she didn't know what was going on in my head - and had to worry about what MIGHT be going on in my head - we'd be the typical American tragedy that is called marriage - and I might be right here, "aw-shucks-in'" with the rest of you guys.

    He wanted to vent about his inability to coerce his wife into swinging - though as TNT pointed out, she's given it a lot more effort than many wives would. If he expected us to applaud his honesty - the honesty that he is basically shitting on a pretty good woman from the way he describes her - then he understands less about swinging couples than he thinks he does. As do you, applevenus.

    Cheaters get little, if any, sympathy here because cheating is completely opposite of swinging. Yes - being a swinger doesn't make your marriage perfect or "above reproach", but the basics to "doing it right" are the kind of things that can make any marriage - even the most vanilla - exciting and strong. So - stop being surprised and offended if we don't have a lot of pity for guys who aren't doing the "hard work" of valuing their marriage - and then come here wondering what went wrong...

    Spoomonkey
    "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    OK, Spoomonkey and other rock-throwers, I've got to stand up here and defend myself. I've never done anything "to" my wife all these years but be a wonderful, loving, supportive husband to her. She's never known one iota of my "other" activites and I've gone to great efforts to assure she never does or will. So I've never even hurt her - not until I opened up to her and divulged my interest in swinging, that is! Ahhhh, openness, honesty. "No good deed goes unpunished", as they say.<p>
    You think me opening up and revealing that I was deceiving her all these years would be good for our relationship? What planet are YOU from, buddy? Even Ann Landers would have laughed her ass off at that suggestion!<p>
    As for you righteous swingers out there so condemning "cheating' - yeah, it's easy to say for you, since your wife is one of those rare ones who will participate in the lifestyle and therefore, obviating the need to get that variety in your sexlife you so freely enjoy. And variety is a big part of the joy of swinging, whether you admit it or not. You're lucky, not necessarily good.<p>
    I would guess that, if you took all the swinging couples out there and the wives suddenly reverted (or never were converted to swinging in the first place) to vanilla, at least half the men would end up getting their variety in extramarital activities. But you're safely in a place where you can deny that and lord your condemnation over us "cheaters".

  5. #20
    Laura's Male VegasLee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Dkent,

    You know what, all of us here are nothing more than a pixel on the Internet to you. What we think and say means nothing at all to you.

    The only opinion that should mean anything in your life is that of your wife but honestly, her opinion only means something if she knows the truth.

    Your right, if she knew the truth about what you have done since you two have been together you would be gone in a minute. She would move on and find someone that hopefully would be fully honest with her in the relationship that she is in.

    You don't want to admit it but you have done something to her over the years. You have deceived her as to the man you really are and you have not been truthful with her. That does not appear to matter to you. So be it.

    Don't come here expecting any of us to agree that you have been good for your relationship or wife by keeping her in the dark about who you are.

    We are nothing to you just as honesty is nothing to you when it comes to your relationship with your wife.

    Good luck to you and I hope that you find all your looking for.
    You all laugh at me because I am different. I laugh at all of you because you are all the same.

  6. #21
    Way too opinionated The Fuse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    OK, Spoomonkey and other rock-throwers, I've got to stand up here and defend myself. I've never done anything "to" my wife all these years but be a wonderful, loving, supportive husband to her. She's never known one iota of my "other" activites and I've gone to great efforts to assure she never does or will. So I've never even hurt her - not until I opened up to her and divulged my interest in swinging, that is! Ahhhh, openness, honesty. "No good deed goes unpunished", as they say.<p>
    You act as if you are entitled to sexual variety. You're not. None of us are entitled to it after we make a commitment to one person. You write as if what you've done is okay because she doesn't know about it, that of course you're going to get "your" variety. Going behind her back does not make you a wonderful, loving supportive husband. People are throwing rocks at you because you don't seem to realize that.

    You act as if the only obstacle to getting your variety is making sure she doesn't find out! That's not the only obstacle. Your commitment to her as a husband is the obstacle. Your sense of entitlement is blotting out that reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    You think me opening up and revealing that I was deceiving her all these years would be good for our relationship? What planet are YOU from, buddy? Even Ann Landers would have laughed her ass off at that suggestion!<p>
    Ann Landers might laugh her ass off, but that's only because you have already cheated repeatedly. If you hadn't, she would tell you you shouldn't. Just because the truth would hurt her doesn't it okay to cheat and then hide it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    As for you righteous swingers out there so condemning "cheating' - yeah, it's easy to say for you, since your wife is one of those rare ones who will participate in the lifestyle and therefore, obviating the need to get that variety in your sexlife you so freely enjoy. And variety is a big part of the joy of swinging, whether you admit it or not. You're lucky, not necessarily good.<p>
    Your phrase "the need to get that variety" shows again that you feel like this variety is your right. You feel that her expectation of your fidelity is somehow the problem. We're here to set you straight on that one.

    As for whether we're righteous, well, maybe we are a little. But that doesn't mean we're not right. Not only that, but we're discussing your situation, not our luck or virtue.

    But now I will discuss our luck and virtue by saying if you've read much here, it should be apparent to you that we don't just have the good fortune of open-minded wives and husbands. We have the results of the hard, honest work of open communication between ourselves. That shows we're both lucky and good.

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    I would guess that, if you took all the swinging couples out there and the wives suddenly reverted (or never were converted to swinging in the first place) to vanilla, at least half the men would end up getting their variety in extramarital activities. But you're safely in a place where you can deny that and lord your condemnation over us "cheaters".
    You're trying to justify your actions by saying we'd do it too. You shouldn't worry about what we would or wouldn't do, just about your own situation. Your situation is that you've done wrong by her, hidden it, and now are hoping to get her to swing. I suggest you do what you can to make her happy from here on in, encourage stretching her comfort zone, and always put her needs first. If you do this, you may not get to swing, but you should both be happier. You can't do anything about the past, but you can change your future. Good luck.
    Last edited by The Fuse; 06-28-2007 at 06:27 PM.
    Through every dead and living thing, Time runs, like a fuse. -- Jackson Browne

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    I never said I was <b>entitled</b> to sexual variety - I just wished for it as much as most of you. But I've found my wife isn't like your wives. And telling me I'm bad because I cheated on her, gimme a break! I'm not saying it was ever a noble thing I was doing, or even right! But I did say I no longer wish to do so, and want to share every aspect of my sexual life with her, and have realized she isn't interested in going to those extremes. I guess that's a bit hard to comprehend when your wife says "yes" and all the rest of ours say "no". You truly do not understand until you walk in my shoes.
    Spoomonkey states that "because my marriage is not based upon trust and communication" (which isn't so, but I won't start that thread), we'll never be swingers! So, in other words, every couple who are completely open, trusting, communicate perfectly, etc., CAN swing? Absolute malarkey! <p>
    I've done a lot of research into the subject - not just on this forum, but talking to "real live" swingers as well - particularly the distaff half - to fully understand the lifestyle, its pros and cons, its benefits and risks, and how it is managed from within and without. I feel I know an awful lot about it now (except how it actually feels)....and I've come up with a hypothesis:<p>

    It's true, it's absolutely true: Men ARE from Mars and Women ARE from Venus. They are different - VERY different! In outlook, needs, perceptions, flexibility, etc. However, in my comprehensive research recently, I've discovered that SOME women are from Mars too - and those are the ones who are able to swing!<p>
    They have more the male POV than the typical female one - more open to
    personal exposure, exhibitionism, mate-swapping, non-monogamous
    (non-romantic) sex, etc. All those obstacles to swinging that most wives exhibit.<p>
    And THAT might be it in a nutshell. The typical woman won't and cannot
    swing - those who can are a rarity of the first order. My wife is typical
    Venusian, I believe....<p>
    And for any of you listening, I love her, appreciate her for who she is, and have explored her limits and now know that this is a place we're not going. It took this session of "communicating" with her for me to know this - otherwise, like too many other husbands - that question would go unasked all our lives and I'd never know: "will she or won't she?"

  8. #23
    Chimpin' Ain't Easy Spoomonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    I've never done anything "to" my wife all these years but be a wonderful, loving, supportive husband to her.
    That is not entirely true, now is it?

    You HAVE cheated on her, yes? That is doing "something" isn't it? If you don't think so - ask her... I am sure that she might actually agree with me that you have, in fact, done something to her...

    The fact that you have successfully covered it up doesn't mean that you've never done anything. It just means you've never gotten caught.

    You have been dishonest with her, you are being remarkably dishonest with yourself, and you wonder why you have no chance at swinging? Seriously? I am not saying that you should tell her what you have done - if you can spare her feelings about your infidelities, by all means do so. But at the very least be honest with yourself - you cheated on your wife, which would - based on your reluctance to tell her - hurt her very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    You're lucky, not necessarily good.
    I am very lucky.

    But I am sure that it is not in the way that you think.

    I am lucky to have a wife who shares my interests - in sex as well as football... She is willing to talk to me about everything - just as I am willing to talk to her about everything. I am VERY lucky to have a soul mate with whom everything is on the table. I can assure that I have done nothing in my marriage that I would not tell her about - and I consider it quite lucky that I had the foresight to build such a relationship.

    You see - we swing out of our honesty, not in spite of our "dishonesty". I am not judging you for what you have done, I am commenting on what you are now trying to do - which amounts to building a mansion on a foundation of shit...

    Spoomonkey
    "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

  9. #24
    Chimpin' Ain't Easy Spoomonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    Spoomonkey states that "because my marriage is not based upon trust and communication" (which isn't so, but I won't start that thread), we'll never be swingers! So, in other words, every couple who are completely open, trusting, communicate perfectly, etc., CAN swing? Absolute malarkey!
    Two points:

    1. Please explain to me how your marriage is built on communication and trust? She may trust you, but you've admitted that she doesn't know everything about you. She simply trusts the lies you're telling... Right? You only tell her what you want her to know... Isn't that true? Please explain your moral high ground on this point?

    2. Your argument here is bullocks. I did not say that any couple who is open, trusting, etc. CAN swing. I would never even imply such a ridiculous thing. It is possible to be open, trusting, honest about your insecurities and your jealousies. And it can also be possible to be honest and open about your convictions about monogamy.

    I also am not implying that every couple who swings is open and honest. I have seen my share of train wrecks out there and am under no illusion that swing-dom is exempt from such drama.

    What I was saying is - should you be capable of comprehending it - honesty and communication are a part of the foundation of a successful swinging couple.

    Spoomonkey
    "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

  10. #25
    Awesome Person TNT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent

    It's true, it's absolutely true: Men ARE from Mars and Women ARE from Venus. They are different - VERY different! In outlook, needs, perceptions, flexibility, etc. However, in my comprehensive research recently, I've discovered that SOME women are from Mars too - and those are the ones who are able to swing!


    You may be right...Ted's often told me I think more like a man than a woman even though I'm very much a girly-girl woman.

    BUT...your hypothesis does not take into account all the many, many men who have come here to the board and who I've seen at different swinger events that really get their panties in a wad after they were the ones that pushed their wife into swinging and once she agreed and participated, they discovered she LIKED it and he was the one that all of a sudden, it wasn't his cup of tea because it wasn't all about him getting some strange but her too and he didn't like that.

    There really are as many men who can't handle swinging as there are women.


    Teresa
    Ted and Teresa
    No lifetime is enough unless you live it in such a way as to make it enough.

  11. #26
    Not a potential *** Chicup's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    Chicup - I do not feel I've been selfish - I truly want to share the joys of swinging with my wife! But if she would get no joy from it, and only go through the motions, I'd not enjoy it myself. It needs to be mutual! But yes, I definitely blindsided her with a concept I had been rolling around in my head for months. I felt like an idiot, thinking her reaction might be any different than it was! I was obviously obsessed with the idea and my mind crazed with the drug of pent-up lust! Running that day over in my mind now, it was totally out of my character and apparently, totally ignoring the liklihood of it blowing up in my face. But you know the old saying, "break an egg...make an omelet"? Well, after all was said and done, she is dressing a bit more feminine and being more creative in bed and open to trying new things...like the CO resort. So in the end, this might have been the breakthrough we needed to pull our sex life out of the doldrums.
    DKent
    The fact that you told her at least this aspect of your personality isn't a bad thing, it took you 28 years to get to that point which you should have talked about before you were married or as soon as you yourself realized it, but whats done is done so ok better late.

    I won't comment about the whole cheating thing because there is nothing more I can add there that hasn't been said.

    I will comment on your motivation. It IS selfish, 100% selfish. Sure you want to swing with your wife because YOU want to swing with your wife not because she wants to swing with you.

    Really its kind of tragic if you ask me. For 28 years your wife never knew you and you hid what you were from her for whatever reason. I don't know if I'm lucky or if I'm good, but I know I never have to fear my wife learning something about who I am or what I've done. Hell, as I've often joked, 'Honey you knew that before you married me.'.

  12. #27
    Just a hick Okie Alura's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    I have a question about your motivation to swing, DKent.

    You say you're tired of the duplicity and want to enjoy the lifestyle with your wife. That's understandable. I can assure you that the satisfaction of swinging together is so powerful that most vanilla folks probably have no idea.

    But how much of your motivation has to do with aging? You're over fifty now and probably having more difficulty enticing the young babes into bed. Older women who are willing to fuck a stranger met in a bar are rare.

    Perhaps you're just looking for an easier way to find that variety you enjoyed when you were younger?

    Mr. Alura
    "They may call me a rube and a hick, but I'd a lot rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it."
    óWill Rogers

  13. #28
    Swingers Board Addict fun4Ds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    I guess I dont get it, maybe it's because I could never walk in your shoes after so many years in my marriage and there is no way you could walk in mine.

    You dont want to hurt your wife by telling about your secret cheating life, my heart bleeds a little for your wife. So many years she was by your side building a life and your buisness and not having the respect of your honesty, and to me this is about her being respected. I'm sorry, I dont get it, I dont get you or your reasons.

    It seems that all of this is about you having your cake and eating it too. You seem to want the icing on your cake by swinging now. To me, it seems that you don't deserve the iceing YOUR WIFE DOES, NOT YOU !!!

    Like I said, you cant walk in my shoes nore can I walk in your shoes now. It sounds like you can't be honest with your wife, because you dont want to hurt her.

    Well you already have, you just believe that what she can't see, doesnt hurt. I can only imagine how many times that woman has sat there with you at any get together with anyone and was a fool for being with you. And you say you were a good husband? That makes you feel good?

    I'm going out on a limb here but isn't your real reason you could never be honest, is the fact that you might lose everything ? At least half of what you have? I see fear, not mercy.

    Some of the things you need to rethink, like your past. Look at the road you think you see in your future now. Its kind of illusional to me, isint it? I mean you have researched the lifestyle and you are going to a club and there you will stand, nakid? and your wife in a snow suit talking to no one. And she has now went to the car because she can't handle this place or how you feel.. Well my friend, you have just hert her again.

    Hide the wounds if that makes you feel good.
    Last edited by fun4Ds; 06-21-2009 at 09:13 AM.

  14. #29
    Swingers Board Addict Tybee Swing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?
    Quote Originally Posted by DKent
    OK, this is not as much for seeking advice (although I'm sure I'll get plenty!) as to commiserate with other husbands whose vanilla-minded wives simply will not even entertain the notion of swinging or anything beyond the realm of monogamous sex.
    Addressing the board, not the OP:

    This board gets bombarded with these cheating husbands looking for buddies and comrades to justify what they want, what they do and how they feel. They want to cry on our shoulders (or each other's shoulders) about what they're not getting. Most of the time, they're looking for advice on how to coerce their wives into doing what they want. I don't believe that we are here to entertain them, or to coach them on how to maneuver and manipulate their wives into swinging. Do you? Personally, I feel this type of post is going to change the dynamic of the board, if we let them take over. It seems there are more and more of these posting here. The Internet is full of places for cheaters and manipulators to commiserate. Let them go there.

    I would like to suggest that the board create a new separate forum for these posts, and move them when they pop up here. As Spoo said, and many of us have said before, cheating is the opposite of swinging. Men trying to coerce wives is NOT swinging, either. I'd rather not see this shit constantly on the Swingersboard. It's a complete downer. It doesn't fit here.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Any Men Whose Wives Refuse to Even Consider Swinging?

    Alura - no it has nothing to do with aging. You made the assumption I'm going after the "younger babes" but that is incorrect. I'm more interested in mature women and arranging a liaison with one is not difficult at all (I do not hang out in bars). That has nothing to do with it. Maybe I'm just 'done' with that scene.<p>
    Also, it was said that me and all these other men come here to try to learn how to "coerce" our wives into swinging. C'mon! Every one of you guys whose idea it was originally had to present it to your wife, had to suggest it, if not "sell" her on the idea to get her to try it. Some wives liked it right off, others might've taken more time. The point is - you make it sound like any guy who wants to swing and comes up with the notion first is some inconsiderate ass who is only thikning about his own needs. Swinging is not a spontaneous and coinciding revalation to a couple! One or the other pulled the idea out of the air and brought it up. Is this "coercion"?<p>
    I brought it up to my wife, just like so many of you did. I wanted her to explore the lifestyle, just like you wanted for your wives. I wanted to see herself expanding her sexual experiences and loving it - just like you want for your wives. I wanted her to enjoy, to grow, to participate in a rare slice of life few get to ever see. It wasn't about me - it was all about her, about US! But she had a highly negative reaction and I backed off, realizing it wasn't something she'd want to do. But we did discuss things I like and I opened up to her certain thoughts and ideas, and asked her what fantasies she might have, or things she would like to try in bed. It was a "getting to know you better" process after raising kids all our married life and realizing we'd fallen into a rut.<p>
    And that is "coercion"? I think not! The idea to go to the CO resort was hers, after we'd talked about nudity and such. I was joking about the snow suit, but if she - like some other visitors at CO resorts (which are not just clothing optional - they are just as much nudity optional) want to join their spouse there but not disrobe, what's the harm? I have no intention in pushing her to strip.<p>
    So I think a lot of you here got your backs up because I admitted to my infidelity past, and overlooked the whole reason for my original post - not to learn how to "trick" my wife into swinging but merely a discussion amongst husbands here who have realized it ain't gonna happen, and their thoughts about it.<p>
    Sorry I was such a downer for the board. I think this is a great forum, with a lot of nice, insightful people, and a few who must comment on every single thing that's posted because they like to see their name up there and like the sound of their own voice.<p>
    I've gotten my fill of input now, thank you. You can move on if you'd like.....

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