Feeling up without asking: is this normal?

[Tybee Swing]

I have a recurring problem and I could use your opinions and thoughts on this. This thing happens to me SO OFTEN, it's led me to believe that it's the norm in situations at clubs and parties. I really, really dislike this and there's no way to fend it off before it starts to happen. I wish there were. All that's left is to react to it after it starts to happen.

The situation: We'll be at a house party or a club, the kinds of places that are "no expectations" settings. Things start to get mildly playful, such as during an icebreaker game or something, or dancing, etc. Women will come up to me and start flirting. That's great. Almost instantaneously, a man I don't know and possibly haven't even seen, comes up on me and starts with the hands all over me. It turns out to be her husband.

Sometimes, I've been briefly introduced to the man in passing. Maybe we even exchanged a sentence. But always, these are men I haven't flirted with nor have they flirted with me, or charmed me in any way. But, just because their wife is flirting with me and maybe I kiss her back, suddenly he has the RIGHT to start feeling me up?? Usually she's in front of me and she and I are having some sort of face-to-face interaction, sometimes quite mild, and this sleeze-ball comes up behind me to sandwich me in.

Do any of you do this?
Do any of you see this going on?
Does this happen to you?

It's happening to me just about every time we go to the parties now. If I was attracted to the man and if we'd been flirting, I'd be glad for this to be happening. But that's not the case. Yes, I like men and I'm not the "married lesbian" that people on this board talk about. I just have to know a guy a little more and get attracted, before he's laying his hands on me. I need a man to flirt me up and talk to me, first. I'll be attracted to some, but definitely not all of the men there.

I'm getting the vibe that this is the way certain couples prey on women in the club, whom they may have picked out of the pack. I have a feeling this is their M.O. Then they circle her and zone in, baiting her with a friendly woman, and then a minute or two later, the man goes in behind her for the kill. It's like Wild Kingdom or something. By the way, this isn't even naked or semi-naked, and it's not even in the sex areas. It's in the main area. But to be honest, even in the sex area, I DO NOT want some man coming up behind me uninvited and putting his hands all over me. Talk to me, get to know me, turn me on, and THEN we'll see if you can slide up on me.

Anybody else?? This has happened so many times, I'm ready to pin a sign on my ass saying "Keep away, unless you've talked to The Face and gotten permission first" Arrrgh! I'm just frustrated with this.

I could give examples and varying degrees of this, but it would make this post too long.

Some may wonder where my husband is in all of this. We're together the whole time except for the usual bathroom breaks, him going to the bar for us, him turned away slightly talking to somebody else, etc. These things that happen, they don't go on and on, because now I'm just stepping aside as soon as Mr. McFeely comes up on me, and moving away from them. I'm just tired of it happening. It's been various people who do this.

Isn't there a rule that you shouldn't touch someone sexually unless you get an invitation to do so? I sure wish there were, and that everyone knew it.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Isn't there a rule that you shouldn't touch someone sexually unless you get an invitation to do so?

In most clubs this is a rule - though I am not sure how house parties post, advertise or enforce their rules... Still you would think that it would be common snese that you just don't start grabbing someone who hasn't given you the "go ahead" to do so...

Whether that is verbal or obvious in a non-verbal way (men who can't read non-verbal cues probably ought to write this on their shirt so as not to make asses out of themselves).

Unfortunately their are always going to be morons in the lifestyle - and maybe they are the kind of guys who would never actually get a real invitation and they know it - so they wait until there is a suitable moment for them to make incredibly awkward...

I had a woman do this and it really pissed me off. I mean - I know better - and if I did it it would be clearly classless - but if a woman does it, I am just supposed to be flattered... She walked up and grabbed my cock (cute little blond actually, but still not acceptable). So I looked at her and said, "I guess that means I can do this..." And I grabbed her pussy through her skirt and smiled.

She got the picture and we've not spoken since.

Yeah - it happens and it does piss me off. But maybe the folks that do this are the types of folks who would never have anyone do this to them...

Spoomonkey

[WildMiCouple]

Wow Tybee, sounds like you're hanging with the wrong crowd . I never feel a woman up without her flirting and then coming on to me first. And even then, it's usually after she's felt me up I must say, I haven't noticed Tam getting felt up much either(can't ask her right now). Well....other than our very first visit to a club quite some time ago. We mostly go to off-premise dances and have been to a few house parties. I honestly don't remember having this happen without us knowing the guy or couple pretty well first. And Tammy sure hasn't mentioned it.

As we don't have this happen, I've never really thought about how you'd guard against it. Perhaps a stern look, or just suddenly excusing yourself might get the point across. I'm curious as to how many others this happens to.

Brett

[Tybee Swing]

Spoo, thank you, I appreciate that. It got so bad the last time that I wondered if I am the one that's wrong about this. About your story, I agree, it's just as bad for some random woman to come up on you and put her hands on you, too.

Brett, thank you, too. About giving a stern look or just walking away: I do walk away, but this is after it's happened. I'd rather be where it's not happening to start with.

The worst case was when I subtly removed the man's hands from me three different times that night - he got the point, I knew it, because he later made some comment to his wife (half-joke) that I didn't seem to like him. On the 4th time (yes, he tried again), he slid his finger up my butt-crack when I was slightly bent over the pool table. Yep, he reached up my skirt. This time, I turned around to him and we had words...but even then, I was being a lady and only said it loud enough for him and his wife to hear me. He got pissy, and angrily was talking to his wife about me right after that. The only word I caught was "bitch". They left soon after. The host told me they won't be invited back. But meanwhile, we should not have to put up with this crap! Even one time is one time too many, as far as I'm concerned.

Brett, you said maybe we're hanging with the wrong crowd. I think you're right, and even though many of our friends go to this house party, I think we're not going back. We're going to look elsewhere. We have to travel to get to real swinger's clubs, but I think that aside from one-on-one connections around home, we'll just have to travel on the few occasions we might be able to go.

Thanks for backing me on this, I feel better already.

[Menage_a_Trois]

We can understand your frustration and anger about this. Touching someone without asking first is rude and inappropriate, and that goes for both men and women. You need to ask whoever is in charge of the parties you go to if this is considered appropriate behavior at their parties. MOST clubs and parties frown on this and it is considered a BIG no no. There are a few clubs around here that some of the women seem to think that it is ok for them to touch or grope whenever they wish without asking, especially if it is another woman that they are touching. They think that because they are a woman it is ok.
A and P (Mrs. Ménage and the Other Mrs. Ménage) get upset whenever someone they do not know touches without asking first. And they both will rather quickly and bluntly tell them just how rude they are. Mr. Ménage is always a gentleman and NEVER touches a woman unless he has been given permission to do so first (even with women from couples we have played with).
If this were happening to us at a club or party, we would not hesitate to tell the rude person to knock it off and we would definitely let the person running the club or party what is going on. That is the only way to change that kind of behavior.
Hope this helps.
The Ménage’s

[ShellyM]

Im going to tell you, no one has any right to lay their hands on me without my permission EVER. Thats like when a prostitute is raped and they say "well, if she weren't dressed like that maybe she wouldn't have been raped". No way in my book.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

I think you're right, and even though many of our friends go to this house party, I think we're not going back.

A light went on when you said this!

We have only been to one party and the couple that threw it is really awesome and a fun couple to play with at the club... We were nervous about a house party and they told us it would be no big deal - so we went thinking it was something we really needed to try out...

We weren't in the house for fifteen minutes when I walked into the kitchen and some jackass made a bee-line over to Mrs Spoo and planted a huge kiss on her. He had a boa that was being passed around the party and he came over to put it around her neck...

But then he quickly pulled her close and stuck his tongue in her mouth...

I saw the kiss - but not the approach - and it wasn't until later that she told me it was unwelcome and unasked for. But when she told me, she said I couldn't say anything to him about it. Needless to say, I was pissed - as was Mrs Spoo. But this had never happened, so she was unsure what to do.

We left early and apparently this guy became more pushy and more asinine as the night went on, insisting that the games that were being played included nudity and sexual rewards...

He ruined the party and was not invited back...

It is our impression that house parties tend to have an atmosphere where there is a lot more expectation that anyone can touch, kiss, fondle anyone else. This has always been our hesitency for going to house parties - and having our impression proved true at our very first one probably guarantees that we won't try another.

This was not a couple we'd have played with based first on their appearance - second on his attitude. And we are a fairly picky couple - which we feel we have the right to be - and we cringe at any situation that means people we aren't into can have their way with us (one reason we tend to hate party games).

Mentioning house parties reminded me of that memory - which still really pisses me off...

Spoomonkey

[Mrs.PaganLovers]

Ok, never been to a house party and from the sounds of it, probably won't. I have been lucky and no one has ever gotten out of hand, except one time at a club, and it wasn't one of the guests. There was a band there and it was open mic (it was a swingers club). We were playing drums with the band (which was a vanilla band), the lead vocalist came up to me and grabbed my hand and pulled it to his crotch. I took my hand out of his reach. The other time was when I was modeling in a vanilla club and a guy tried to untie my evening gown in the back. It was the end of the night, I was tired and my feet hurt (don't ever pick on a woman when her feet hurt!), I grabbed the back of my dress with one hand and drew the other hand back and hit him. I am a small woman and it just bounced off of him (hhmm remind me to ask Pretty Lady for lessons). The next thing I said was "what makes you think you have the right to put your hands on me!". Needless to say, he back pedaled pretty damn quick.

Having said all that, I realized that my reaction in the vanilla club was much different than in the swingers club and it shouldn't have been. No one has the right to put their hands on me unless it is invited! I guess it was because of the different atmosphere, it will never happen again. I don't care where I am or the expectations, there are jerks everywhere, and they will be promptly put in their place by this little lady, and they will be reminded that I am a LADY. Ladies stand up for yourselves and speak when someone is out of line!
Ok, jumping off my soap box now.

Blessings
Mrs. PL

[BradAndJanet]

Well...I can see from your avatar that you do have one of those hard-to-resist perfect asses.

Still, a man's got to contain himself and not get carried away. He was wrong to assume anything. He was a jerk and I'll bet it's not the first time.

-B

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by BradAndJanet

Well...I can see from your avatar that you do have one of those hard-to-resist perfect asses.

Yeah... I thought the same thing

Chances are, she'd end up slapping the hell out of me, too

But - WOW - she induces a case of the shakes doesn't she???

Spoomonkey

[nice_cpl_n_bama]

I've seen that too. Laurie very nearly broke a mans thumb at a Halloween party over this very issue. She told him once clearly and politely that she was not interested and he persisted. Laurie used to be an auxiliary officer for our local police dept and has had the self defence training. she grabbed his thumb and twisted till he whimpered.
We've been active in the lifestyle for a few months and know dozens of great couples. Of all the women I know, other than Laurie, there are exactly 2 women who I would feel comfortable putting my hands on. Even with those 2 I would probably start with a back rub and check for reaction. If the lady I'm paying attention to gives a positive reaction to that I'll move on from there. If not I haven't really stepped over the line into rudeness.
I know I'm truly annoyed when I see Laurie having to deal with rude and unwelcome advances so i wont do that to anyone else. It's just politeness.
As for house parties, there are different sorts. Laurie and I attend a party that is very low pressure. Mr. almost broken thumb was asked not to come back.
At our party there is no public play usually. There are private bedrooms upstairs for that. The party games are non contact types. The big Halloween party game was bobbing for goodies. There were gummi boobies and dicks in a big bowl of water and you tried to suck one up with a straw.
Another house party we WONT be going back to was simply walk in, get naked, and start humping. Not our kind of thing. You might have to look around a bit to find one that fits, but I'm sure glad we did.

[gatorvol64]

Having said all that, I realized that my reaction in the vanilla club was much different than in the swingers club and it shouldn't have been.

No, it shouldn't but I doubt you are the only one to react that way. I do not care where you are at, the grocery store or at a club or house party, no one has that right. At all. Just because my husband and I choose to let others into our sex life does not mean I (or him , Spoo) shouldn't be treated with respect.

Vol

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by gatorvol64

Just because my husband and I choose to let others into our sex life does not mean I (or him , Spoo) shouldn't be treated with respect.

I would like to say, though, that if you ever grabbed my crotch uninvited, I doubt I'd be the least bit bothered by it, Vol

Ditto to Tybee as the OP, of course

Spoomonkey

[gatorvol64]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I would like to say, though, that if you ever grabbed my crotch uninvited, I doubt I'd be the least bit bothered by it, Vol

Ditto to Tybee as the OP, of course

Spoomonkey

Well, now, I definitely will remember that!!

Vol

[intuition897]

Maybe try coming up with some kind of clever T-shirt or pants/underwear that get the idea across. Something that just screams, 'Touch any of this without asking and you lose the offending body part.'

I'm afraid I'm not too clever about stuff like this, so does anyone have any clever T-shirt punchlines that would get this idea across? Something that ends in 'Offenders will have their balls removed (by an angry husband with a dull spoon).'?