Husband met them before and didn't tell me

[HappyPeople]

I would feel betrayed too.

[chinadoll]

Well guys, I think this very much stems from a lack of communication as ANGEDKY and most of you say. I think there was an enormous level of excitement there for him. I know from past experience in daily life, that when he comes across something that he is really interested in, he dives into it full force and sometimes without thinking things through clearly. I think this was another one of those times. Even with talking about everything, he was so absorbed with the idea of the lifestyle, he didn't really think of how each action would hurt me or if it might at all. In most other situations where he dived in like he does, he never really thought much of me either. I think these kinds of things consume him too much!! Seems that when he gets an idea of something and wants it very bady, he becomes very selfish.
Angedky...I think I was apprehensive about it all most because I was going through rough times in life anyway. I was dealing with so many things and hurting more cause hubby wasn't being supportive. Then the more interest I saw on his part in swinging, the worse it made me feel. When he would come home from work or from being out somewhere, the first thing he did was check email and our profile to see how many people have checked us out and who was online and so on. He spent a great deal of time checking these things out. Meanwhile, I was dealing with other problems and really needed him by my side and he wasn't there for me. I'm not sure he wanted to be brought down to where I was. He wanted to continue to feel the excitement of getting into the lifestyle. I beleive because of the way this made me feel, this is what made me take so much time in deciding on wether or not I wanted to meet the other couple. Hubby was seeing my disinterest, but not understanding why and decided to meet the other lady cause the hold that all of this had on him, was making him too impatient. As to the reason that I continue to hide how I found out....it's because I don't trust him yet. Not at all!! If I have to use this method again to help myself if I feel he is lying, I need it to be there for me. That may be wrong but I feel I need something on my side here. As for the timeline...I think it is pretty close...maybe a few little changes...
talk in bed
you say yes <--------WE say yes
you join internet site (he sees this) <--------join an email group
he joins site (tells you) <-------an actuall website with profile
contact between the profiles
emails and chats (tells you) <-----after this line...emails and chats and DOESN'T tell me
assumption of your disinterest
they want to meet (i dont think they are all that new)
maybe he can nudge you foward (maybe at their urging==pushy couple??)
he meets (doesnt tell you, ASSUMES your disinterest)
you find out
GAME
Very close!! I am so greatful that you all are able to follow this and help.
A few more things.....
Quote from Mrs Lol_omg:
"I would also say that if the hubby is getting into swinging in order to do this other woman, you'll find out in short order if you say "not this couple, lets find another.".
I must say...this is a great idea!! At this point, not sure if I will be able to use this or not, but if I have the opportunity, I will do just that. Everything else you mentioned makes perfect sense to me and was the very same thing I told hubby in the beginning. Even after all this happened, I told him again.
Sereneiders...You are correct in that I am under a lot of pressure. I am in many ways. Right again that I feel that I may lose him because of one reason or another. At this point, it is somewhat of a dissapointment for me too, to have to put my sexual fantasies on hold and if things aren't able to be repaired, then it would be permanently. However, my marriage is WAY more important, so I don't mind at all!! I feel also that swinging will not fix the marriage and I did consider continuing so that hubby would be happy and there would be less risk of losing him. But we all know that would end up worse for me in the end. It wasn't a very intelligent thought on my part. In light of more recent events revolving around this situation, I hope he is willing to put more effort into our relationship like he says he will. You are right once again, I can't pull it on my own and I have told him that also. I can only hope....
Vacplis4lovers....initially i didn't feel like he cheated...but there was a definate betrayal. To everything else, I agree completely.
Now...something else has happened. I hate that events keep coming up around this situation. Seems that while I was at the doctor's office again yesterday, he called her again!! When I got home..which was shortly after he left for work, I had to make a call. Not trusting him still, I checked the last numbers called and there was her number!! I noticed this just as I was descending the stairs and I can't describe the feeling that came over me. When I took the next step, I feel down the stairs and hit my head and bruised my body a bit. It turns out I am ok, just a few bumps and a little cut. At the time I was worried cause vision was blurry and ankle hurting not to mention the way I felt inside. I called hubbys work and indicated an emergency (was scared he wouldn't be there after knowing he called her again) and he called back. I told him that I feel and he rushed home. To shorten this up...when he got here, he checked me out...I was fine...I asked him why in the hell he called her and demanded to know what was going on. He told me that he only called her to tell her that I knew about the meeting. For some reason, he felt he should let her know. I still don't understand this!! I guess in light of everything, he says he will do what ever it takes to make me trust him again and repair our marriage...but I have lost all faith. I have hope that we can, but no faith that we will be able to. He sounded so sincere telling me that he only called her to tell her that I knew. He said he was going to tell me when he got home from work that he did. I still can't really understand why he was concerned enough about her to call her to tell her that. Where was the concern for me? I can't understand why he had to do it when I wasn't here either. All of this seems fishy to me and makes me wonder again if something is or was going on. I asked him once if he would tell me if something WAS going on and he said he probably wouldn't. He also said yesterday that because of where this situation has come to, he felt at this point that he may lose me and that all of details and the full truth needs to come out if it hadn't already. He still claims everything he has told me so far is the truth and is not leaving anything out. So.... if there was something...I really can't believe him either way. *sighs* He told me repeatedly yesterday that it was all over (referring to swinging and the lifestyle) and he would go to therapy or do WHATEVER it took to repair my trust and love. I so hope this is true and that all of the details have come out. If I find out something else later...I don't know what I will do.
Any advice on this new phone call would be great. I do have to apologize though...it seems that I have "spilled my guts" so to speak on everyone. This is a swingers forum and allthough it was a swinging related issue to start, it became more really. You guys probably didn't need to know ALL of my feelings and ALL of the details I have shared, but I got carried away typing. I actually feel some relief to have gotten some of this off my chest. Sorry if anyone feels I have shared to much, but thank you for allowing me too and for all of the wonderful advise and insight. Hope I didn't leave anyone out as far as my responses go too. I feel like I have made some new friends!! Thanks again all!! (((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))
and hopefully this is the end of this situation.

[LOL_OMG]

He could have actually repaired some of the trust issues you have if he had simply called her with you there....and even have you two (girls) talk about it if you wanted to.

Swinging has to be about the both of you...we do it together. Emails, phone calls, meetings, picking couples we want to hang with. You're right in putting a stop to the swinging, it would only lead to more questions of trust in your mind...and as you have said he possibly gets a little over-indulgent or obsessive about new things.

Don't feel bad about pouring your heart out here. In fact, since your hubby doesn't like to talk about things....maybe he would rather read....and if you feel like it, let him read this thread.

Forgot to put in that this is the Mrs LOL

[chinadoll]

Yes LOL-OMG...I really wish he would have called or at least asked me if he could and have me there. I agree 100% that it would have maybe helped to repair some of the trust. As it stands, all it did was hurt me more and make make me feel that there was something more to the two of them. I thought about asking him to call with me there and maybe setting a time for the 3 or 4 of us to talk about it. But, how do I know if he told her yesterday that I knew only X amount of information regarding the two of them and that he has left out the rest? I wish I could think of some way that would help me to know that he has told me everything.
I do think that hubby has seen some of this thread, not sure if he read it thoroughly and I don't think he has read the latest comments. I may direct him to it when I feel the time is right. Thank you for understanding and allowing me to pour my heart out.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by chinadoll

Sereneiders...You are correct in that I am under a lot of pressure. I am in many ways. Right again that I feel that I may lose him because of one reason or another. At this point, it is somewhat of a dissapointment for me too, to have to put my sexual fantasies on hold and if things aren't able to be repaired, then it would be permanently. However, my marriage is WAY more important, so I don't mind at all!! I feel also that swinging will not fix the marriage and I did consider continuing so that hubby would be happy and there would be less risk of losing him. But we all know that would end up worse for me in the end. It wasn't a very intelligent thought on my part. In light of more recent events revolving around this situation, I hope he is willing to put more effort into our relationship like he says he will. You are right once again, I can't pull it on my own and I have told him that also. I can only hope....

"However, my marriage is WAY more important"... mmm even than yourself? than your own happiness?... than your own life?

Sorry but, you're describing over and over a selfish pig up to do everithing he can to fulfill his desires, without looking at the consecuences for you. You said this isn't new, that you already sufered his lack of support... so I ask... then, what is what makes this marriage so valuabe for you? Kids? (I didn't heard of them so far) Or your fear of being unable to be alone and find out someone else wanting to be with someone as worthless as it seems you perceive yourself?

"I can't pull it on my own and I have told him that also. I can ONLY HOPE..."

You admit the only thing you can do is to HOPE, then you should know that's the ony strenght you have to pull it. And I've never seen a charriot being pulled by hope, instead by horses, bulls, people, dogs... but never seen a charriot move just because someone was sitting there, just hoping it will move.

Going on with the analogy, you DONT WANT to pull because you're affraid that, by pulling it, you may end up tearing the belts to find out the charriot didn't moved, at all, because of you. While you sit there, complaining and hoping, you're ensuring you won't get any proof on how weak or solid these belts already are.

And since this doesn't seem to be something new, I am starting to believe that some part of you is enjoying all of this.

[chinadoll]

sereneiders...trust and believe that there is NO part of me that is enjoying this. I was only typing out my feelings. A lot of people experience hope as an emotion. I don't feel there is anything wrong with that. I do agree that I need to place myself before anything...this is becoming very apparent to me. It seems I have a long road ahead of me regarding many things. I was simpling stating that my marriage was more important than the lifestyle... not that it was more important than myself.

"so I ask... then, what is what makes this marriage so valuabe for you?"

What makes this marriage valuable to me is love. However, asking this question has me thinking. For that I thank you. It is a perfectly legitamate question in light of this situation.
"Or your fear of being unable to be alone and find out someone else wanting to be with someone as worthless as it seems you perceive yourself?"

Could you explain this further? I'm not sure I understand this question.

Yes...right now hope is what I have...at least it is something. While it may not actually pull any chariot, I have hope that when I finally feel strong enough to try and pull again along side my husband...that it will move and that the belts will not break. Forgive me if I don't follow the whole idea of pullings chariots. I don't always do well with that sort of analogy. Also, yes...I may not want to pull for fear of tearing the belts. Sometimes people get scared and they may not want to pull right away. Not everyone heals the same. I am a slow healer and until I feel ready to pull, I won't. I know that I will though. I am hoping...that is for certain..I don't however feel that I am complaining. I am sharing my situation with others in the lifestyle that have experience "hoping" that maybe others have some insight. It has helped immensely.
I don't know what will become of my marriage...like i said, it will be a long road to repair...all I know is that we can work on it and I can "hope" for the best outcome possible, since at this point I don't know for sure what the outcome will be. This situation has taken a lot out of me. For some, it may not be a big deal, but it was to me. Maybe I am not as strong as others, I don't know. But I can tell you, I am not enjoying this one bit and I am ready to move on regardless of how scared I am.

[OttawaCuple]

Chinadoll,

I'm glad you've recognized this whole thing for the serious problem that it is. As much as what everyone has said on this thread has been excellent advice, and I'm sure it's been very helpful, we are all just ordinary people offering personal advice based on our own experiences, we are not trained professionals.

At this point, I think you and your hubby should book some appointments with an experienced sexual/marital health therapist. One who specializes in male sexuality and the male psyche would be especially good

I also think you'd be best to find a male therapist as it's not uncommon for men, when faced with a female therapist, to say "she's just a woman, of course she's going to side with my wife, what does SHE know about what a guy goes thru" and to ignore whatever advice she gives. You want a therapist that your hubby will feel comfortable with and who he'll feel he can trust to help him sort thru HIS needs as much as the therapist will help you sort thru yours.

Good luck ... you've probably got a long and difficult road ahead, but with open minds, your love for each other, and a desire to make it work, there IS hope.

(((((HUG)))))

MrsOttawaCuple

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by chinadoll

"so I ask... then, what is what makes this marriage so valuabe for you?"

What makes this marriage valuable to me is love. However, asking this question has me thinking. For that I thank you. It is a perfectly legitamate question in light of this situation.
"Or your fear of being unable to be alone and find out someone else wanting to be with someone as worthless as it seems you perceive yourself?"

Could you explain this further? I'm not sure I understand this question.

Yes...right now hope is what I have...at least it is something. While it may not actually pull any chariot, I have hope that when I finally feel strong enough to try and pull again along side my husband...that it will move and that the belts will not break. Forgive me if I don't follow the whole idea of pullings chariots. I don't always do well with that sort of analogy. Also, yes...I may not want to pull for fear of tearing the belts. Sometimes people get scared and they may not want to pull right away. Not everyone heals the same.

(...)

Maybe I am not as strong as others, I don't know. But I can tell you, I am not enjoying this one bit and I am ready to move on regardless of how scared I am.

I was mean because I read all the posts in the tread and it seemed to me you were going in circles, so I wanted to shake your wold this way.

There isn't anything wrong with having hope, it just seemed to me that you're unsure about how much you can rely on your husband, and in the other hand you feel yourself trapped in such a way that any movement you may do could geopardize your marriage even more, so basically it seems you're paralized here, and the lack of alternatives leaves you sitting there only with your hope.

And I point out, this is something that SEEMS TO ME to happen, and I am not only reading what you said, also the way you say it, the words you choose to use and the ones you choose not to use. Just from the arrangement of your posts, it seems to me you're trying to think about this while needing to wind up, sometimes you have the cold blood to think, some others it seems you're overwhelmed by fears, some others you express your feelings as they come while you're typing. There is nothing wrong with this, but I think you need to find a place where to stay and gather the energy to break this circle. This place could be your feelings, your fears or your cold blood, but it seems you keep spending your energy by jumping from a place to the next.

One of the things that calls my attention along all your posts is the way you're protecting your husband from your feelings, something that you peg with protecting your marriage, altough IMHO it isn't the same. You admited he were unable to rely on him in the past (giving you certain degree of conficence about being unable to rely on him again today), you described him as selfish and careless about you, and even so you're still in love with him, so I have to supose that either 1) he give you some other things that you didn't told us about, or 2) that you love him BECAUSE of this, as if somewhere inside you, you were sure that you deserve to be treated this way.

I don't know, and it doesn't matter if I ever know, but I believe it is important for you to know why you're in love with him, what's that thing that attracts you to someone who, in the other hand, over and over does things that hurts you. After describing in detail the ways you're being hurt by him, it seems to me this question became more and more relevant, because this love you feel, this need for him, inside this notoriously umbalanced relation of power you have, made me suspect that you're giving him more credit than the one you give to yourself.

From here the question you asked me to rephrase, because if you cannot give yourself more credit than the one you're giving to this selfish and careless guy, you'd be asuming you doesn't worth a better treatment from a guy. Something like "I don't deserve to be loved and this guy loves me when no one else would, so I'd have to be gratefull and accept whatever he wants to give to me, no matter how painfull it is, and the only thing I can do is to ask him the favor of treat me in some less painfull ways, and hope he will grant me this favor even when I don't deserve it". As if, by the time you knew him he turned into the White Knight that saved your life.

This may not be the actual scenario, but there are enough details hanging around as to suppose it may be, and if it were, then your problem would be that the only way you know to get some love is begging for it because of charity, because you still didn't find out inside you things worth to offer and trade. Bus suposing this is the case, believe me, you have these things, and finding them is a matter of learning, as it is a matter of learning the trading required to have a power balanced relationship with other people (and this is one of the details I mentioned before, you doesn't seem to figure out how to negotiate your relationship with your husband).

I agree with you when you say not everyone heals the same (moreover, nor at the same pace), and I strongly believe that you reached to a point where you're unable to heal yourself by means of the ways you used to heal yourself before, and that you need help, a help you're asking for in this forum, but as MrsOtawaCouple said, we're not trained proffesionals able to provide you the help you're looking for.

At this point, the fact is that you know we're not proffesionals but ordinary people, and even if some of us were hitting the nail here, you'd be getting it in between a lot of personal opinions, all with the same degree of confidence, thus the wole thing becomes a noise that adds up to the noise you already have, and with our best intentions we may end up helping you get even more confused. A proffesional won't tell you his/heroppinion, moreover, he/she wont give you a solution, but guide you trough the proper questions as to help you break this circle, and you will know these questions are relevant because they doesn't come from ordinary people.

[chinadoll]

Thank you again all for the input.
Sereneiders.... I'm not sure how you managed to understand all that you have from only what I have typed, but somehow, you really got under the surface of things about me. Many things you mentioned are very true and some I didn't even realize myself until reading your last post here. I am planning to sit down and really evaluate some of the questions that came to mind after this post. Not all of it is entirely correct, but many things are. It really amazes me that you were able to see as much as you have about me. I want to thank you. It had brought some things to light and really made me think. You know, take a real long hard look at some things. Yes...I am absolutely going in circles...I would like to put a stop to that and feel some sort of consistancy. Not sure how to do that though. It seems to me that before I can move forward, I need to FEEL like I know the truth about the whole situation.
QUOTE: "it just seemed to me that you're unsure about how much you can rely on your husband, and in the other hand you feel yourself trapped in such a way that any movement you may do could geopardize your marriage even more, so basically it seems you're paralized here, and the lack of alternatives leaves you sitting there only with your hope."
Yes...I am unsure on how much I can rely on hubby...all of what you said here is true. I think I knew this, but wasn't so totally aware of it until it was mentioned here.
QUOTE: "the words you choose to use and the ones you choose not to use. Just from the arrangement of your posts, it seems to me you're trying to think about this while needing to wind up, sometimes you have the cold blood to think, some others it seems you're overwhelmed by fears, some others you express your feelings as they come while you're typing. There is nothing wrong with this, but I think you need to find a place where to stay and gather the energy to break this circle. This place could be your feelings, your fears or your cold blood, but it seems you keep spending your energy by jumping from a place to the next."
Again, correct. This is something that maybe I am more aware of now, just still unsure of what to do about it. I am open to all suggestions though, with the complete understanding that you nor anyone else is a professional.
QUOTE: "One of the things that calls my attention along all your posts is the way you're protecting your husband from your feelings, something that you peg with protecting your marriage"
Not sure on this. I don't think I am protecting him from my feelings about the situation, but I think it may be possible that I am not sharing ALL of the feelings in general that I am having. To be honest, I think it is less of a matter of protecting and more of feeling like he may not care or that it may set the ball rolling for seperation. Yes, I am worried about seperating and divorce, I love him and had intentions of spending the rest of my life with him. It's not that I don't want to be alone, I don't want to be without HIM.
QUOTE: "You admited he were unable to rely on him in the past (giving you certain degree of conficence about being unable to rely on him again today), you described him as selfish and careless about you, and even so you're still in love with him, so I have to supose that either 1) he give you some other things that you didn't told us about, or 2) that you love him BECAUSE of this, as if somewhere inside you, you were sure that you deserve to be treated this way."
Right again for the MOST part. I think there could be many reasons that I am in love with him. This is where it gets tricky. You managed to make me think..."Why do I love my husband?" So far, I am only able to come up with things that I love ABOUT him. Is that the same thing? (this question also stems from the paragraph following the preceeding one.)
QUOTE: "As if, by the time you knew him he turned into the White Knight that saved your life."

[chinadoll]

looks like i got ahead of myself and posted to soon...here is the rest....

to the last quote...
I am wondering if maybe I see him this way also. Still trying to decide.
QUOTE: "you doesn't seem to figure out how to negotiate your relationship with your husband)."
If I am understanding this statement correctly...I think I try to negotiate or compromise...not feeling like there is effort on him part though. The more I look at all this, the worse it is starting to look.
QUOTE:" I strongly believe that you reached to a point where you're unable to heal yourself by means of the ways you used to heal yourself before, and that you need help, a help you're asking for in this forum, but as MrsOtawaCouple said, we're not trained proffesionals able to provide you the help you're looking for."
You may be very right about this also. It does seem that the ways in which I used to use to heal before aren't working here. I am learning that just by talking and getting others perspectives, that it helps me to think and really look at things. This is giving me answers. I know very well that you all are not professionals, but different perspectives seem to be helping. Then what I can do with the questions and thoughts I have come up with, is go through them with my therapist. I wouldn't say that you are adding to the noise or confusing me more at all. Like I have mentioned, it helps to have someone to talk with and get different opinions from. I think what I need most though, is to feel like I know that whole truth no matter how it hurts. When I feel that I do, then I can begin to move on comfortably.
Thank you all again for all your thoughts.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by chinadoll

QUOTE: "you doesn't seem to figure out how to negotiate your relationship with your husband)."
If I am understanding this statement correctly...I think I try to negotiate or compromise...not feeling like there is effort on him part though. The more I look at all this, the worse it is starting to look.

Well, that wasn't what I meant, but since this is the way you understood it, I gess you may be right.

What I mean is that, to negotiate you have to trade things. In this scenario, you should have something to offer, valuable enough to make him trade his commitment and some attitude changes. You're basically selling something, selling yourself as a "product", and you want to get the higher possible price (i.e., get all the things you expect him to change).

To be able to do this, you have to have an in deepth knowledge about the product (about yourself), as to be able to claim for a price by enhancing the product better features, and by "hidding" the worst ones, so by the time the trade negotiation began, you can have arguments to support the values you claim.

Then it comes the second problem that worries you, and this is the one more remarkable from your words: if you set a price too high, that doesn't reflect it real value, your husband may stop bidding and look around for another product (another woman) able to sell herself at the price he want to pay.

So, the issue here is that you don't have an in deepth knowledge about yourself. Perhaps your hubby, your family, people around you along your life managed to point out your worst features and you reached the point where you're unconfident about the better ones, if they're there, if the gessing about the ones you think you have are delusional, and so forth, so you ended up undervaluating the product. As a result, you know you're not able to negotiate this trade, and you avoid the negotiation at all, and you ended up accepting the price he had been set for you, over and over.

Moreover, you "bought" him at his own price, you believe he have the nice features he promoted for himself, features that he may actually have, but that you're uncertain about, and in the balance these features have more weight than the worst ones he have, even when you're certain about the later ones. So, to be able to trade, you have also to know him as deepth as you can, to know the product and valuate the better features and to point out the worst ones that dimish the price he's asking.

You said "I'm not sure how you managed to understand all that you have from only what I have typed, but somehow, you really got under the surface of things about me". Well, what you described to us, over and over, is the dinamics of this trade negotiation with your husband along the history, and moreover, that you're so aware of this dinamics that you know in advance you will lose the trade one more time if you don't learn how to improve your negotiations skills.

What I know for sure is that people isn't THAT different from one another, we all have the same needs of love and atention, and what varies from one to another is the way we learned to fulfill those needs, needs that are like water: you require it to survive, and even the lesser amounts are better than none at all.

We born alone, we'll die alone, and we live in a desert where you can get lost in the middle of nowhere and find yourself without any chance to get water and die lonely, so when you (or me, anyone) learn the path to reach to some water, you preffer to go trough that path over and over, because you know that, even when not leading to enough amounts of water, you'll find out some. The problem is, when you get your water trough these paths, and you cannot get enough as to save for later, you cannot affrod the risk of exploring new terrains, and ultimatelly your chances end up limited to the few paths you know. But you reached the point where the amounts of water you are able to collect trough this path aren't enough to survive anymore, and you're "pretty sure" you'll die if you dare to explore the unknowns, so you're asking us to tell you how to squeeze more water from your current source.

So, the first thing I believe you have to understand is that you requirements are the same than the ones everyone around you have, that you have the same resources to fullfill them everyone around have, but that you didn't learn how to get rid of these resources.

Now lets take a look at your hubby and his very personal piece of desert (from what you said). He didn't learn how to travel long distances to seek for water (he's not up to make big changes), he also have paths where he's used to get water from, these are short paths, and he have the skill to dig deeper for wather, and squeeze the sand to get every last drop form it. And here, you're the one being squeezed, and you barely have water for yourself, but even so he still keep squezing because he needs it to survive. In the proccess, he made you believe he's an explorer, that he can afford to explore new terrains looking for water, so if you refuse to be squeezed, he will find out water somewhere else. And perhaps he's right, perhaps he was able to save more water than you as to dare to explore if you don't let him squeeze at will.

But the problem is your survival, not his, and even if you love him enough to let him squeeze you for him to avoid the risk of exploring new terrains and die alone, if you ever dry out, he will go away anyway. And he's telling you he cannot get the water he used to get from you anymore, so you feel him squeezing harder and you're freaking out.

Ever saw "baywatch"? In the real world, gess what's the first thing sea lifeguards have to learn. It's how to fight AGAINST the one they're trying to save from drowning, how to knock them out, even at the risk of killing them in the proccess. And this is because the drowning one, in the middle of the panic, easily can drag the lifeguard with him/her and kill them both, so for them both, the only chance they have to survive is to ensure that the lifeguard is able to survive, even at the price of risking the drowning one life.

So, even if you want to save your marriage and provide him what he needs, you have to learn how to survive yourself, and be up to knock him out at the risk of losing him. If you cannot swim, and he cannot either, you'll both lose.

Now, lets go back to the trading skills. He needs water as badly as you do, he used to squeeze you over and over for water, and it's likely that, the more he did this, the more he's afraid of exploring the unknown. Besides what you have to offer for your product, you know some about the value this product have for him: it's a source of water. You'd have to reach a deal where you'll provide him water at your own pace, without being squeezed for it. And if you find out the only way he know to get water is by squeezing, and he is not up to learn other ways, let him go to squeeze someone else, because he doesn't worth the price he is setting for himself.

In this deal, you're the one providing more real value to the relationship, and you're being underpriced, while he's the one providing less real value while being overprized. He may want to leave, he may find someone able to "buy" his product at the price he wants, but sooner or later he will find himself in the same situation: in a relationship where he's unable to provide the same assests that his eventual partner does. And here's the tool you have to bid: to make him face this truth. How? Here's where you need to improve your skills.

Originally Posted by chinadoll

QUOTE:" I strongly believe that you reached to a point where you're unable to heal yourself by means of the ways you used to heal yourself before, and that you need help, a help you're asking for in this forum, but as MrsOtawaCouple said, we're not trained proffesionals able to provide you the help you're looking for."
You may be very right about this also. It does seem that the ways in which I used to use to heal before aren't working here. I am learning that just by talking and getting others perspectives, that it helps me to think and really look at things. This is giving me answers. I know very well that you all are not professionals, but different perspectives seem to be helping. Then what I can do with the questions and thoughts I have come up with, is go through them with my therapist. I wouldn't say that you are adding to the noise or confusing me more at all. Like I have mentioned, it helps to have someone to talk with and get different opinions from. I think what I need most though, is to feel like I know that whole truth no matter how it hurts. When I feel that I do, then I can begin to move on comfortably.

That's true, but I believe you already got enough to diagnose the problem, at least the part over the surface. Now you need to diagnose under the water, and moreover a prognosis.

There's anything wrong on keep gathering opinions WHILE you go for the prognosis. But you have skills to develop and learn, you have to get an in deepth knowledge of yourself and some better understanding of your husband, you have to disect your relationship looking for what you want to save and what you want to throw away. It's a lot to do, the sooner you start doing it, the sooner you'll reach to a solution, and for this you should look for a proffesional. It wont be easy, and it will take time, but I strongly believe the outcome will worth the effort.