Husband met them before and didn't tell me

[dayhiker]

Hi Chinadool,
Well, I'm going to suggest a differant possible way of looking at this.
Say your husband and this lady got to talking on the web. Sex often comes up in those chats. They hit it off. They wanted to stay faithful yet sensed the
sexual tensions that were between them. So they come upon swinging and can they get their spouces to join them in swinging. So they hatch a plot to get you all into swinging. They choose this site to create acounts, they tell their cpouces, they set up a meeting the meeting goes well. So you Chinadoll, since something was going on before the meeting.
Well, there are hundreds of spouces that come to this site to learn how to ask their spouce to join them in swinging. Probably more spouces are set up in a since then are not. If this is close to being acruate, I'd not let it divide you as a couple. Its the story have how you were introduced into having more fun with your husband. You still have a lot ot talk about as everyone says. If you want to swing, they press onward. You may have found a couple
that you and your husband can have a really good time with. You may have a husband that just wanted you invoved in his sexuality just as every potental swinger wants their spouce involved.

Have faith and tell your husband that your moving ahead with swinging and how the communication has got to start working or it wouldn't work out as he wants it too.

dayhiker

Originally Posted by chinadoll

I want to talk to him badly Ottawa, but he isn't that talking type. If they were doing something before all of this, I don't know how I would find out. If I ask him, and he says no, which he already has, how can I believe him now that he has lied to me? I might be able to use lies to get him to tell me, but then I am just as bad as he is. I can't thank you all enough for replies, you have no idea how much it helps me.

[EvilMJ]

I feel for you Chinadoll.

Early on our swinging we played with a couple who we really liked. However one day i had to check Hubby's cell phone for him and found two very sexy phone messages from her. I can't even describe the feeling, that sinking in the pit of your stomache, the feeling of betrayal. I confronted hubby about it and he said he didn't realize I would be upset, which is why he never bothered hiding those messages. As it turns out she didn't think there was anything wrong with calling him like that and I thought I would do the same with her hubby. I was hurt because I felt like no one told me, and in my opinon it was crossing the line for me.

Anyway what this all comes down to is if you don't feel comfortable playing with a couple for any reason, then don't. It is not worth the discomfort. If you are concerned that hubby is cheating, then you definately have to talk to him and try to get him to open up. He may be cheating, or he may not, it may be a horrible misunderstanding. Give him a chance to give his side of the story, and be very open about your misgivings as to why this situation bothers you. I do agree with everyone though when they say this is not the correct way to deal wtih things and it leaves a bad feeling after you read it.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

You have been given some valuable insight as to what may or may not be transpiring around you. I can see both sides of the coin on this one A) I am a firm believer in there are few (if any) coincidences in life however B) I was one of those that came here to ask advice on bringing up the topic to my Mrs.

The only thing I can really add here is to take all that we have said and compare it to his daily routines and demeanor....meaning does his daily habits / activities reflect secrecy or abnormal changes ect... or is he his normal everyday self ? the way he has been for months or years.

do a little observation and then have that talk with him, openly and calmly. Make your future choices accordingly.

IN MY OPINION if he has the balls to hide it then he should have the balls to talk about it.


One last thing.....how did you find out about the meeting

[kevin&danielle]

He denied meeting her when you first brought it up; he posted a couples profile with out telling you for quite sometime, he felt like it was more important to meet this woman than to accompany his wife to the doctors office. I don't know about your relationship but I can tell you what would have gone on in ours. This couple would be totally off limits and no communication would exist with them other than an email telling them that we weren't compatible. As far as swinging is concerned I could care less about it under those circumstances. My marriage would be top priority.

Kevin

[chinadoll]

Hi all. I just want to thank you once again for all your input. It is helping me so much and the more opinions and posts, the more it seems to help. Thank you all so much.
I will try to answer the questions as best I can and shed some more light to hopefully get some further perspective.
Ottawa...Hubby and I talked mostly of swinging in the bedroom during lovemaking. He was very interested in the idea of me being with another woman. I think we finally got to a point where he was interested in pursuing this, so we started looking at swinging together. I joined an email group while we were looking online one night and told him I was doing so. He was with me when I did it. A day or so later, he told me that he posted a profile on a site but didn't really tell me where and I didn't think to ask. I guess I was thinking that he joined another group like I did. When I did come across the profile he created, it was when i woke up one night from a nap (a week or so after the profile was created) he mentioned that he was talking to the man from the other couple and was just asking questions about the lifestyle. I was interested so I sat down and chatted with him a bit also. From the conversations that I have had since then (with the guy from the other couple), I feel pretty sure that the person I spoke to that night was him. But I have to admit, the profile was a bit of a surprise, even though he had mentioned it, I wasn't really aware that he was actively viewing other couples or chatting with them. I feel I need a bit of clarification on this with hubby now that you mention it. I'm not sure how long he was chatting with others when I came across hubby's conversation with the other guy.

Sereneiders...I am not sure that I can even trust the other couple now to swing with. If she went behind my back, wouldn't she do it again? If she didn't do it again, I would always wonder and that wouldn't make it fun for me I don't think. As far as talking goes with hubby, I have tried so many approaches with him, and he always gets defensive and rather cold really when it comes to something he screws up on. He doesn't admit fault very well or take responsibility for actions very well. I will say that he has in this case it seems, but getting him to talk about something that is upsetting, is near impossible.

Apex..I have told him that I am not comfortable with this couple now. He seemed to be dissapointed and had a defensive remark that I can't even remember now. I had to clarify for him one more time why I wasn't comfortable with them...because they both went behind my back and I have been hurt.

Dayhiker...I have thought about your scenerio a lot. At this point, I still think it is a possibility that it could have happened that way, but I am leaning more toward it being a coinsidence. I hope so anyway. But even though I have met them and they seemed great, I still have to look at the fact that she was talking to him online, on the phone and in person behind my back as well as her bf's. I'm not so sure I want to be with someone like that. Hubby says that I never would have met them. He just knew that I didn't want to. So, since he had talked to her online a couple times, they decided to talk on the phone. Talking on the phone, they discussed meeting to put a face with the voice. I guess since hubby was thinking I never would have met them, wanted to meet her just to say hi. He still claims it was an innocent meeting. He says that their other conversations were also innocent with the exception of not telling me. One morning when I came down stairs to see what he was up to, he closed out of internet really quickly...I thought he was up to something. Turns out that he was talking to her. I asked him why he didn't tell me. He says "Cause I didn't want you to know". Now I ask myself, "what does that mean?" Going back a few sentences...where I mentioned he just "knew" that I didn't want to meet them...now that I think about it...if he "knew" that I didn't want to meet them, why would he make arrangements to go ahead and meet her? Does this show intention? Could it really just have been no more that curiosity? He says it was just curiosity.

Evil...He had been rather cold talking about all this, but he has a tendancy to do that when he feels attacked. I try not to use words that would make him feel as such, but he still reacts as if he has been. I have given him a chance to give his story, I want to know hers now. I would like an opportunity to talk to her when she thinks I am hubby so that I can get a better feeling that hubby is telling me the truth about his story. It may seem mean, but at this point I am desperate and I tell you why.
Hubby and I have had other issues in the past, most couples do at some point. We had a horrible fight back in October and we weren't sure then that we would make it together. My question to him then was "Are you willing to do whatever it takes to make our relationship work?" He was unsure at first, then decided he was. Things until now have been fine. Now that his lying has hurt me...he seems to think that leaving me may now be an option. He says that he doesn't want to hurt me anymore. Now that I think about this further, couldn't he be using this as an excuse to leave because he is in fact seeing her? *sighs* I am right now faced with being alone and left to wonder what decision my husband is coming to as far as leaving me goes. He says he loves me and always will, but he doesn't seem to be sure if he is willing to do whatever it takes to make our marriage work. He says he doesn't want to keep screwing up and hurting me and now he knows I will never trust him again. I tell him that if he puts in the effort, we can get past it. But again I have presented the same question as before and am waiting.

Angedky...just in case hubby reads this post or comes across it, I would rather not mention how I found out. What matters is that I did. Your words of wisdom are wonderful. I am glad you mentioned to observe...I think I need to go back a little and recall some of his behavior.

Kevin...you said "As far as swinging is concerned I could care less about it under those circumstances. My marriage would be top priority."
I couldn't agree more. This is exactly how I am feeling. It seems that this situation has really blown into something much more than I thought. If he is now considering leaving so that he doesn't hurt me anymore, it is clear that our relationship needs work and swinging should be the least concern. I have a horrible problem with trusting others after they have lied to me. He has promised before not to lie to me again because he knows it hurts me so badly. This was a pretty bad lie as far as I am concerned. He admits he shouldn't have lied but at the same time doesn't think that a harmless and innocent meeting was such a big deal.

So, at the time I am typing this response, I am wondering what hubby is thinking as far as whether or not he wants to quit this relationship. Funny thing about it...not only is it Valentine's Day...it is also 5 years to the day that he proposed marriage to me. I realize that this has become more of a relationship issue now than a swinging one, but it seems that swinging and his meeting with the other lady is what set all this in motion. If anyone has any comments, again...they are greatly appreciated.
Btw...is there an award for "longest post ever" in this forum? =)
Thanks again all, sorry if I left someone out and I know I went on maybe more than I should have, but it did seem to help to get this all out. *hugs* to all that want one.

A couple other questions...should I pretend to be hubby and see if I can get any further info out of the other lady regarding their "time" together? Should I approach her as myself and ask? Should I tell her bf? Or should I just send an email and say that we aren't right for this? I don't really feel like she should get off scott free in her relationship...but I am really not the type to sabotage another's relationship. I wouldn't normally lie to get what I want either, but I want the whole truth here and I don't feel I am getting all of it. Thoughts?

[kevin&danielle]

I totally understand how you feel about informing her bf and would be very tempted myself but would personally opt to skip the drama and move on. Unless of course the meetings behind you back continue.

Kevin

[She_n_Jaybee]

Whew! This strikes quite a few nerves with me. About 12 years ago I met a woman online, started chatting with her, ended up meeting her. I was single at the time, a reasonably popular in the local online community. She was new, and her profile stated she was a bi female part of a swinging couple. It wasn't until after we'd had several meetings that I found out that only one half of that couple was swinging. I made a mistake and didn't walk away from her. She ended up divorcing her husband and a few years later married me. Shortly after that we got back online again, but were doing different things. I tried to involve her in my interests and tried to share hers. But she wanted nothing to do with my stuff, and really didn't want me into her territory. Needless to say, the marriage didn't last. At the end there was a lot of lies about online chats, phone calls, personal meetings etc., on both sides.

There were 2 other failed relationships after that. Both of them involved the person I was with meeting others behind my back, lying about it, then saying it was just completely innocent. I later found out in both cases that a lot more happened that wasn't innocent. I can deal with infidelity, but I can't stand being lied to.

Now I'm in a relationship that's different. Swinging was part of the beginning of our relationship and the trust is there between us. We both chat and do things online, but everything is open.

In the opinion of someone that has done it before, if there was nothing for you to worry about with your husband he would have talked to you about meeting this woman before hand. To test this theory, just ask him how he would feel if you had been meeting with some man that he knows nothing about while he's at work.

jaybee

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by kevin&danielle

He denied meeting her when you first brought it up; he posted a couples profile with out telling you for quite sometime, he felt like it was more important to meet this woman than to accompany his wife to the doctors office. I don't know about your relationship but I can tell you what would have gone on in ours. This couple would be totally off limits and no communication would exist with them other than an email telling them that we weren't compatible. As far as swinging is concerned I could care less about it under those circumstances. My marriage would be top priority.

Kevin

Big Dito

I wouldn't be as understanding as the OP seems to be...

[Vespertine]

This other woman isn't married?

That, in itself, might be reason enough not to play with them. She doesn't have anything to lose.

Also, how did the other couple interact with eachother? Do they have a long history together, is swinging new to them? Did they act like a couple?

Could her "boyfriend" just be a ticket?

[chinadoll]

Jaybee...I have asked him how he would feel if he found out that I was seeing another man or met him behind his back. At first he told me that it wouldn't be a big deal, but actually admitted that he may be saying that to justify his own behavior. Then admitted that he would probably feel upset, but would get over it pretty quickly. I am not the type to just let things roll off easily. I so wish I had that ability. So no, I don't think he would like it, but he won't whole heartedly admit it.

Ves...No, they aren't married. They have been together for about 5 years though from what i understand. From listening to them, I believe that. Now...that you have mentioned he may be her ticket? This could very well be. She has had very bad past relationships and this is the first "great" guy she has been involved with. She knows this and relayed this info to me. They acted like a couple for the most part. Hubby and I are usually touchy and feely...we make it a point to offer a love pat or some closeness a lot of the time. I didn't notice much touching or kissing or anything like that, but they seemed to be together. They told many stories about their travels and whatnot also. I believe they are a couple, just not for us. Something doesn't feel right. Swinging isn't too new to them. They say they have been a threesome one time, but it seems that in talking to them that one tells me that is all they have done and the other says they have been with another couple AND done the threesome. This is something else that makes me cautious. In any case, they seemed like nice people, but I don't really trust them so probably not a good idea to play with them.

Now...when hubby came home last night...he tells me that he loves me and wants to work to get past this and be there for me and us. This is a good thing, but he also tells me that he wants to pursue swinging. I am not sure how to feel about that. I did tell him that I thought we should put it on hold, but he seemed so dissapointed by that. This worries me. I guess I might feel a little dissapointed also, but knowing I have him is enough for me. I have asked him if I am enough for him and claims that I am, but how do you really know? I am so worried that he had developed a little obsession with swinging. How do I tell?

I wish I could express to you all how much you have helped me with this situation. I couldn't possibly thank you enough. (((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))) )
Thanks Again

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

First, Thankyou for taking the time to answer all of us (yes even me... you did you, just didnt realize it)

I think all of this stems from a lack of solid communication, I see bits of good communication between the both of you peeking thru, but not on a good solid consistent basis (and that is what you need to survive around here)

I believe he thought that with a little nudge, perhaps you would come around (be on his level of excitment)...why was he afraid of your veto, in fact what made him assume you would veto them (as a couple) in the first place.

Hubby says that I never would have met them. He just knew that I didn't want to

Something somewhere caused it, my guess is a little apprehension on "swinging" from you. (rightly so, this is a monumental decision)he just needs to understand your concerns. I think in all likelyhood he had the best intentions, yet the methods sucked ass !!! (but only you can be the judge of that based on the information you have read/seen!!)

And on the other side of the coin, why do you have to hide HOW you found out from him?? If you expect him to be open and honest with you, you cant be hiding things from him.

I think you are almost there, sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, just dont forget to look inward as well. Sometimes those little unintentional things we do, can have a huge affect on the other half, making communicating OH SO IMPORTANT

timeline (short version)

talk in bed
you say yes
you join internet site (he sees this)
he joins site (tells you)
contact between the profiles
emails and chats (tells you)
assumption of your disinterest
they want to meet (i dont think they are all that new)
maybe he can nudge you foward (maybe at their urging==pushy couple??)
he meets (doesnt tell you, ASSUMES your disinterest)
you find out
GAME


just my take, based on what you have written, hope maybe it helps

[LOL_OMG]

Trust is something that you not only need between the two of you but also with the couples you swing with, IMO. Plus if you cannot talk to each other then swinging is probably going to end in disaster. We talk about everything, and even with other couples. That way everyone knows what's desired and expected...and what boundaries everyone has. If they're worth knowing and swinging with....they will talk about anything and be open about it.

I would also say that if the hubby is getting into swinging in order to do this other woman, you'll find out in short order if you say "not this couple, lets find another.".

Mrs LOL

[LOL_OMG]

Er Yeah, what Mrs Lol just said....heh. Seriously, she hit the nail on the head with that one.

Mr. Lol_omg

[sereneiders]

chinadoll,

It seems to me you two aren't in the same page. You want to do eveirthing you can to save your marriage, he says he wants to but hesitating. He wants to play with other women (and you) in bed, and by now you want to put all of this on hold.

It seems to me you're under a lot of pressure here, in a situation where you foresight you may lose him no matter what you'd do. If you accept swinging, he isn't trustable enough and he may have an affair with the other woman behind your back, and if you don't, then you're affraid to not being up to his expectations and that you'd lose him because of that.

Clearly this is a very unfair scenario for you, and I suspect if you're up to go on with this, it's just because you have the hope that swinging will help fix up things.

Well, swinging is NOT a recipe to fix a marriage, that NEVER works, and if you hold such a hope, you're going to wreck whatever may be left from your marriage today.

Besides that, a premise required to save a geopardized marriage is that BOTH of you have to put the same level of effort to do it. BOTH of you have to be up to give up some things, and so far, it seems YOURE the only up to give up whatever you feel is required to fix your marriage (like swinging, keep meeting this woman, accept him to talk with her behind your back), while he are not even up to talk with you about all of this, and isn't up to put swinging on hold even when it's obvious that you're not being able to handle it.

If your marriage goes on, for sure it will be because of YOUR effort and not HIS, he doesn't seem to be doing anything to save it, but ask you to accept all and every one of his terms. And if your marriage get lost, it would be YOUR fault since being you the only one turning in actions your will to save it, it would be because of a mitake you did by taking some of these actions.

A marriage is like a charriot pulled by both parties, it doesnt work if you're the only one pulling it while he's sitting in the charriot.

I believe you have to make up your mind about producing some attitude change on him towards your marriage, or kick him out from your life and move on, and that you will keep going in circles until you understand there is no other way than be up to kick him out from your life, because if not he won't feel frightened.

By now and for you, it's not a matter on how to save your marriage, insthead to decide at wich price you want to save it, and if the price will be paid only by you, or if he have to contribute.

[vacplis4lovers]

In our opinion, he went too far. He cheated on you. He will do it again and for all we know, he is using you. I, as male, would have agreed that if I did that to my wife, she would have been more than justified is she did blow the whole thing. He needs a long talk with you and he needs to be abreast of what really is going on inside his head. Stop this before this gets out of hand and you get answers to all the questions you have.