Husband crossed the line on what was agreed...

[vcpl73]

We've been in the lifestyle now for about 6 months and have had some really great experiences. We had our 2nd experience with the same group of people the other day. My husband had always described himself as a watcher, and his fantasy was to see me gangbanged, or in a mfm situation. We've done the mfm thing - which I didn't really care for, but I found myself enjoying being with couples because I'm more comfortable playing with a male if his significant other (and mine) is there. I just feel safer that way.

I have always been honest with my husband on my comfort level, and thought I had communicated this well. I was perfectly fine with him playing with tits, and on occasion, with the right person, having his cock sucked. I consider my husband to be "mine" and personally felt like I wasn't ready to share him. He said he was fine with this, because his fantasies never involved me or him with another woman, but he did want to see me with another man.

The other day while we were playing with this other couple, he became pretty intoxicated and asked me and the other male if it was ok for him to go down on the other female. He had already been playing with her, and when I left the room and came back, they were doing some things that I just wasn't comfortable with while I wasn't there. He asked "Can I go down there?" and I asked "where?" hoping that he was talking about me, but he indicated that he wanted to go down on her. I felt put on the spot so I said (not very enthusiastically) "I don't care" and he proceeded to do this. He is tongue tied and generally complains the next day about giving oral, but otherwise is usually ok with this and offers it to me. But this was something that we previously discussed was not ok with me. He also is very talented with his hands, and made several references that her husband (the other male) didn't know what he was doing when it came to pleasing his wife. Also, when we were playing, my husband moaned a great deal (as much as with me) and made mention to how great it was, then when he came to fuck me, he got soft.

I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks the line was crossed, and if so, what can I do about it. I've pretty much told him (and he acknowledges) that I felt as if he cheated on me right in front of him. I tried the lifestyle because he suggested it - as a fantasy of his - and I have grown very fond of the social aspects of the lifestyle. But he says he feels like he is expected to do things with the woman and that people don't generally like to swing with couples where the male is a watcher.

Does anyone have any words of advice?

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by vcpl73

Does anyone have any words of advice?

Yeah...

Don't be evasive when it comes to your wants and your want nots.

When he asked you if he could go down on her, you should have been honest and assertive with what you were/were not comfortable with. If you didn't want that to happen... you should have said "No".

"I don't care" is not "No". To a horny guy with a few drinks in him, caught up in a sexual enviornment... that's a most definite "Yes".

You have to communicate better. You can't assume your husband will read between the lines and know exactly what you mean. He -did- ask permission... so I don't see what he did as cheating.

You need to discuss with your husband that when you're in the middle of playtime, you can't put rules on the table to discuss. Rules shouldn't be changed in the heat of the moment. This is a good way to avoid mistakes and hurt feelings in the future.

As far as his loss of erection goes, it happens to a lot of guys when they first begin to swing. Maybe he picked up on your animosity towards him for crossing a line with a woman you weren't ready for him to cross yet?

[She_n_Jaybee]

Sure he crossed the line. He did at least ask before doing it. Granted, that was not the best time to ask. We both see that sort of thing happening on a somewhat regular basis. And quite often it's when one or the other is rather intoxicated. Excessive alcohol has a tendency to chase away inhibitions, but they usually take the erection with them. While we both enjoy a drink or two, we only play sober. We're about on the verge of only playing with people who are also sober. Some of the experiences haven't been as good as they could be because of the alcohol. Add the effects of alcohol to a situation where there are specific limits on behaviour and you're going to have situations like that arise.

We're both lucky. I like seeing her getting and giving pleasure to/from other women and other men. She likes seeing me giving/receiving to/from other women. She especially likes to see the look on their face when I give them my trademark move.

jaybee

[EvilMJ]

THere are two problems here...swinging while drinking too much, it tends to impare your judgment and make you do things you normaly might not. Two, bad communication, he heard you say I don't care and assumed you meant, hey I don't care go ahead. Can't blame a guy for taking you at your word, and while you may feel he cheated on you, you gave him the go ahead.

It seems to me that you have to voice your concerns honestly to him, as Ves said, when he asked you should have said NO, I am not comfortable with that. It is bad enough to send a mixed signal, but it is worse when there is drinking involved.

As far as couples expecting certain things when you play with them, if you are up front with them as to what you guys want and don't want then there is no cause for concern. THere is no one way to swing, and there are lots of people who have different preferences, it is just a matter of finding them.

I think you two need to have a talk, using this as a learning experience, put away your accusations and find a new starting point, determining what you are both comfortable with, and go from there.

[lovedoctor]

To me it sounds like a little bit of the green eyed monster is taking over. I can't say I blame him for wanting to play with the female half of your swing couple, since that is what you were there for, in essence. I am not a man, but I think it would be difficult for anyone to lay a banquet out in front of a hungry person and tell them they couldn't eat.

Still, that aside, you did have an agreement and he broke it. I would talk about it and if you can't come to a place where the swinging arrangement is more equitable, since thats what he wants, then I would stop swinging. He's telling you that he wants more -so listen and make sure you discuss it when you are alone, sober and not emotional about the whole thing.

If you are unable to share him with another woman due to jealousy, yet you are with another man, you may not really be ready to swing.

As we say in business, make all your deals before you get into the board room.

Ms. LD

Originally Posted by lovedoctor

If you are unable to share him with another woman due to jealousy, yet you are with another man, you may not really be ready to swing.

i disagree with this statement. my husband and i are in the lifestyle with a specific set of 'rules'. one of which includes me being with another male (his request and i oblige). however, i have told him i am not to the point of being comfortable with him being w/ another woman. and if he's not ok with that, we should not be doing ANYTHING in the lifestyle. and i'm fine w/ that. it really is a matter of communicating your likes/dislikes/rules/boundaries, etc. BEFORE you the situation arises. as long as you agree on the rules, you are ok. if you both agree to the rules (whether that's allowing ONLY males or ONLY females or ONLY couples as long as both people get to play or whatever), there shouldn't be an issue.

i think he DID overstep his boundaries. i think he DID have too much to drink. and i think having been a little more forthcoming w/ how you really felt at the time would have been best.

[apraskov]

Sorry, I don't want to steal the thread, but I and my wife are going trough somewhat similar issues, so I felt the need to ask:

Originally Posted by Added Spice

(his request and i oblige).

Why would you oblige if you don't want to do it? Or you actually want to do it but it is easier for your conscience if your husband asks you to do it, because then you wouldn't feel the need to offer the same lack of restrictions to your partner?
It looks to me that you and your husband are both trying to work out your insecurities cold turkey. That is something me and my wife are trying to do and we have decided that we are simply not ready yet, so I’ve been reading the forums a whole bunch lately.


Back to the OP: great advice from the other posters. Maybe in addition to the rules and when to change them, you should try to work some scenarios out. Like WHAT IF… kind of thing. I know you cannot predict everything, but you can at least cover the major things and have a WHAT TO DO IF…. plan laid out before anything happens.

[JandT_Elkhart]

The problem = "I don't care".

Learn to be honest and up-front about your wishes and desires and this problem wouldn't have happened. For you to make him "admit" that he "cheated" on you was also wrong. You as much as gave him permission.

Sorry, but "I don't care" means YES, no matter HOW you say it.

[twohots4u2]

Your rules sure are one sided! You want it all but you do not want him to do anything but watch. No wonder he broke your rules when he had a little too much to drink and his inhibitions were loosened. Perhaps you need to back up and figure out why and how you want to swing, and realize that it goes both ways.

[rpu3]

We are very new to this as well, with a couple of "actual" experiences under our belt. The one thing we have learned is that the rules or boundaries may end up being modified on the fly. The end result of that may or may not be good.

If my husband asked me outright, on the fly, if he could do something, and I said "I don't care", I've just told him yes, especially if you consider the alcohol, We both learned after our first experience, which was pretty bad, that there can be nothing less than complete honesty and absolutely no hedging on such things because he and I do not always speak the same language. He (my spouse) may not pick up on my lack of enthusiam or that "I don't care" is a euphemism for "You put me on the spot and I really don't want you to do that" - especially with alcohol and general horniness aplenty!

I'm a tad more concerned for you that I'm not sure you really want to do this and the expectations he perceives.

Good luck with your resolution. I hope you post as to how you work this out.

R. (the female half)

[daisy girl]

We have been swinging for about 6 months as well so as you read my comments, remember that we are new as well .

I think there are three points you may want to consider.

First, you may want to re-examine your reasons for swinging. It sounds like you like the social aspect. Does this include the physical as well? If you could hang out with fun, sexually-open people without having sex, would you prefer that? It was your man' suggestion that you start swinging ...did you do it to please him or are you truly invested in doing it? Just a question for you to ponder.

Next, I think you may want to reexamine your communication patterns. and boundaries. My husband and I have discussions about swinging. After every event we sit down and discuss what happened, how we felt, and if there are things we would change. This means that we are in a process of contant evaluation. During these times we have reevaluated our boundaries, etc. A few months ago we went from soft swap to full swap as a result of one of these "sessions."

Your message sounds like you both are not communicating your wishes well. This is problematic in the lifestyle. FYI: You should never do something that you do not want to do. Your wishes are valid and important and your partner should respect them. Swinging is about adding to an already solid relationship. It is not about obligation...it is about liberation!

Finally, you may want to think about your relationship. Do you have a solid history or are these issues "spill overs" from other relationsip issues? I ask because I have noticed that our best playmates are those that have a solid relationship. It sounds like there is some jealousy in your relationship. Your use of language such as "he is mine" makes me think that you may not be ready to swing. Yes, my husband is my husband, but I love seeing him receive and give pleasure to other women. It doesn't diminish what we have. In fact, when other women are moaning, I think "damn I'm lucky."

These are just my thoughts. Take care!!

n

porttasters on SLS

[Chip_n_Muffy]

One thing I have learned about the lifestyle is communication is essential. And being in the lifestyle forces communication to a level I had never thought possible. Imagine Muffy's surprise when she realized that I really COULDN'T read her mind! My futile attempts to out guess her left both of us confused, frustrated and sometimes hurt. So as we matured in the lifestyle we matured as a couple. It has been an amazing process, much more effective than anything Dr. Phil could have taught us. So back to the predominant advice that is always given in these forums! Talk. Talk. Talk. At least you are reading the same book. Once you get on the same page, you will be amazed the difference it makes.

Chip

[ShellyM]

I have to be honest, and this is just my opinion.
But, I have to say that I think it is selfish for you to want to be in the situation and pleased sexually, and your husband is expected to sit there and be a bystander. Now, given he should have discussed the fact that he wants to join in before you were in that situation. And, every one has their own comfort level as to what is okay and what is past the line. But I don't think it is ok for you to be pleased sexually and ask your husband to just sit there.
Now, this is jmo and not meant to offend.

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- As soon as you have a set of rules that allows one partner more play than the other, you will probably have problems. The reason being that your 'equal' partnership has become unequal. Agreed upon 'rules' will never overcome inequality.
In the case of Edison and I, we are in full swap play. Of course, it's a much more complex topic, but I trust you see what I mean.

Lastly, you want to do more than just say he broke a rule, you want to accuse him of cheating. That's gunnysacking and is a reflection of your anger. If you take this as a learning experience and move forward and not a reason to be angry with your spouse, you'll fare better.

[menher1559]

I can't resist the temptation. One of the things we've learned through many years of swinging is that rules sometimes do change in mid stream. Like it or not....we've all found ourselves in situations that require a quick adaptation. WE always understand that no means no, and if i'm not comfortable with someone doing something to me, i can tell them, and with my wife, she is the same way. If she doesn't want something in her butt, she'll tell ya...lol.

With that being said, we are starting a new adventure with a couple. Ironically, they have been friends of ours for years and neither of us knew the others were swingers.. They responded to our sls ad, and wow as we got to talking we figured a few things out.

With this relationship however, we are trying to take it slow and learn a few of the more intimate things about each of us. That way (hopefully) we will no exactly what the boundaries are before we all get naked with each other. WE are even going to try couple dating for a while. Damn, what a concept.

I guess with all this rambling, swinging is about the ability to share and adapt to situations. If everyone is on the same page, then there shouldn't be any problems....just be sure. we've found to be the best policy