First Swap! DH forgot OUR rules! What to do??

[pacpl4funn]

Hello and Good Morning to all,

Hubby and I became involved in swinging about 3 years ago, because we're not on the same page, we've been taking it slow. Going at my pace, a few weeks ago we had our first swap with another couple, they are great people, the best, trouble is, I thought I was ready for this, till it happened and I became unglued. LOL

Me and the other husband we're doing our thing, 69 with him on top, and my hubby and the other wife were a few feet away doing their thing, 69 with her on top.... Everything is going fine, AND then I hear my hubby's voice, "eh eh eh, not yet, not yet", it was that "tone of his voice" that made me repostion myself to see what's going on.

See we have this rule, no direct mouth cumming and no inside cumming, as he wanted to keep this for us and I did too. So what do I see when I look over, Her face is about 5 inches away from his **** and there is this long. thick, boogery load just hanging in the air off the top of his.... And a moment later, DOWN SHE WENT !!!

It was all I could do to just not get up and walk the f**K out. So I kept my cool, I didn't want to embarass us or the other cpl, cause they knew in advance of our rules.

Her and my hubby 69ing didn't bother me, her cumming on his face didn't bother me, THAT CUM SHOT DID !!

He knew our rules going into this, I warned him to becareful, I told him straight out that, I was not sure HOW I WOULD HANDLE or REACT as this was a 1st time swap. A first time what-so-ever where another woman whould be involved.

And he blew it, literly, I've been upset, confused, down right pissed off, feeling like I want to craw under a rock and just stay there.

Now I've tried talking to him and he swears up & down that he didn't cum in her mouth, that he pulled her off his **** when he felt he was getting too close and that all I saw was "pre-cum", and when I tell him, that was not pre-cum I seen, he swears if it were MORE, that he didn't feel it !
Then he tells me, he was excited and that the newness and atmosphere and hearing & seeing me with the other guy was what made him loose control! So now he's telling me I made him cum??? with her sitting on his face??? As far as I know, you can't hear or see threw someones thigh! So that to me is bull shit. Then he switched it again to hearing me, and then again that if the other cpl didn't have the same rule as us about cumming then it should be ok for him to cum in her mouth or insides..... LOL yeah HELLO! I told him, that if he wants my mouth & insides to be strictly for him, then it applies to him, regardless of the other cpls rules or lack of them....

Throughout 2 weeks of talking, he agrees he fu@ked up, badly, he agrees that if he wants things to be reserved for him then he needs to reserve them for me too. tit for tat. He is very sorry and that I believe.

But I don't know how to trust him again, he ruined this crutial first time. How do I trust that if there ever is a next time that he won't get over excited and forget that I'm there???

His lack of care and concern for my feelings hurts worse then the cum shot I saw and I need help in understanding how this coulda happened. Do all men loose control like this and just think with thier **** head??? How do I go on from here, I don't want to walk away from swinging, nor do I want to walk away from him.

Is this something that time will heal??? Because I need him to prove himself, prove that I'm the one he wants, and that I'm the one he wants to loose control with.... But I don't know how to get past this and trust that it won't happen again. He says he'd like to do this again, in time, that he won't mess up, and that the only way for him to prove this, is to do it again, and that scared me.

I think this first time swap would have been different had we the chance to experiment with a ffm 3sum so I could feel involved and have more control and say so, like he does when we have 3sums that involve another man....
Because I think the physical distance and me not partisipating WITH him bothers me too.....

I'm sorry if this was so long, but I've been reading the posts here and everyone has so many interesting and insightful ways of expressing their opnions and ways to handle things.

thanks
pacpl4funn

[txduo2000]

Well, one thing that you are going to learn as time goes by and as your experiences increase, rules DO need to be respected and followed but some of them might just slip by in the heat of the moment. The broken rules are not planned in advanced, maybe not even anticipated. And the only way to work past the hurt gotten from a broken rule is to genuinely and honestly talk to each other about it.

Now, the way you described the scenario, her face was 5 inches from his dick and his cumload was not in her mouth? Am I right? Because if so, then he didn't break your rule, if your rule was no cumming in mouths or any other body cavity. The way you described the scenario, he was about to cum and she took her mouth off his dick. Then you went on to describe that she went back down on him. Now, for us, if we had your rule, the way you explained it, that rule would not have been broken in that act and the reason being that he didn't come in her mouth. She stopped, he came, she began again. Now if you would have preferred that he clean up the cum before she went back down, was that stated?

And I am not sure that he "forgot" that you were there. It is very arousing for many of us to hear our partner in the throes of passion with another. Yes, he can hear through a thigh. Not sure what the angle was where you were all situated, but was there a possibility that he could have gotten a glimpse or two through his peripheral vision?

The thing is, no matter how well you know a person, you have no idea actually what goes on in their mind, and subsequently, you don't know what AT THAT MOMENT will be most arousing to that person. Being that this was your first full swap, there's a great deal of intensity involved in that. Not only the sights and sounds, but the imaginations and visions in one's head as the process is playing itself out. For some, it's a sensory overload ... You can't blame him for his level of arousal getting out of control, and there's a big difference in actually cumming inside someone's mouth or pussy and pulling it out til the orgasm is over then re-inserting.

Sometimes rules are made and they don't anticipate all eventualities. So a little understanding has to come into play when that happens.

Do you think he INTENTIONALLY broke this rule with the purpose to HURT you? I don't. He apologized, right? Did you feel like he was sincere?

That's all that really matters, in my opinion. Yes, rules need to be followed to the best of everyone's ability. They need to be respected from all points of view. But we are human beings, not infallible and mistakes and mishaps will happen. Going into this, you have to be aware of that. You have to keep perspective on all situations and try not to overanalyze them and look for things that might not be there after all.

[tulippe44]

I can't give you any advise on this situation as we aren't at that point yet, but one of our rules is that he cannot (for now) cum in anyones mouth. That rule came about from the rule that you cannot do with anyone else what you can't do with me. I feel for you but also have to agree with txduo on this one. Did he cum in her mouth, or did she clean it up after? If this had been my DH and I, I would feel the same way you do at the moment and I am sorry to hear that this happend on your first swap.

Tulippe44

[pacpl4funn]

I absolutly agree with that we are human and mistakes are bound to happen,


from the angle we were in, it was more of a side by side with about 3 or 4 feet of space between us all. I was on the bottom, and hubby was on the bottom, both of our heads were in the same direction.

From what I saw when I heard his voice and the tone of it. is what I described earlier, when I heard his comments and looked over, yes, her mouth was not on his dick, but several inches away, but with the load just hanging, and knowing that he's not a ONE SQUIRTer. LOL Understand what I mean??? Seeing what I seen, I knew there had to be some cum prior to what was hanging off his cock! Which means he came some in her mouth.

In talking to him, His own words, "well I didn't think our rule applied to me since they didn't have the same rule" but in the same breath, he denies cuming at all, with the exception of maybe some "pre-cum" and to be honest, I've never seen pre-cum hang thick like that. it's usually more runny.

His apologies are more sincere NOW, then they were on the night or the day after this happened.

Like I stated earlier, what bothers me the most is that this was a first time experience for both of us and I warned him to becareful. And he wasn't.

I don't like the fact that there was so much separation, distance, and I feel had we experienced a ffm 3sum so I could feel like I was in control and part of him, then I think I might have been ok with the 'cock clean up'

I feel he violated my trust in "over enjoyment" where he knew I needed things to be subdooed (sp) and somewhat restrained for my emotional needs as again, this was new and he knew ahead of time I may not be able to hand it or how my reactions might be,

And he wants to do this again, I just don't know if this is something I can do again if he can't show some restraint. Even if it's to protect my feelings, ya know everybody had a good time, and came, except me! When I saw his cum, that was it, it ruined it for me. His lack of control and care for my feelings took away from my experience and I just don't know how to handle all this. I am trying, but it's horrible at night when I try to sleep next to him and the moment I close my eyes it plays over n over in my head and then I lay there crying into my pillow.

He's never been very good at saying he's sorry and sounding like he means it, must be a macho thing. Right now I need his assurance of love, compassion, etc.... more so that this isn't a "need to have" thing. And on that aspect he IS trying.

When we're older, I want to remember the fun times, not the times he made me cry. That's not so much to ask?

thanks,
pccpl4funn

[txduo2000]

Absolutely not, it's not too much to ask.


My suggestion ... back up, start over, talk more before resuming play with anyone and most importantly, go with the comfort level of the least comfortable person - YOU. Re-examine why you are both in this lifestyle. I kind of get, from the way you describe him as being a bit unconcerned with your feelings, that maybe his primary goal is to "get some extra as much as possible" ... and that is NOT a good reason to be in it. As a couple, it is necessary to be in this TOGETHER and FOR EACH OTHER. Selfishness has no place in marriage, and has even less place in a marriage involving swinging.


If you feel like you would be more comfortable in a FMF situation to work yourselves up to couples at a later time, then that's what you need to do.

You cannot continue to harbor resentment. And if he is going to be in this lifestyle, macho or not, he is going to have to learn to open up and be completely honest about his own thoughts and feelings, but above all, he is going to have to learn to be most respectful of yours. Whether he understands it or not, if something hurts you, he has to be considerate and respectful of that and at least try to see it from your point of view.

You said yourself in your original post ... you guys are taking it slow because you aren't on the same page. It's really best to try to get on the same page before making any forays into actual play with others.

[pacpl4funn]

Hi again, and thanks,

We know that I'm a few pages behind him and therefore that's why we go at my pace, LOL

In talking to him, that's what I actually said last night, that I want to move on from this, just forget this happened and make the next time (should there be a next time) make that a new begining for us.

But he also knows not to loose his 'self-control' again, that for me, swinging, has to be enjoyable for both of us.

I know it's difficult to know how anyone is going to react, but I've expressed my feelings to him that there has to be a certain amount of care and consideration that is depended on for any of this to be sucessful and enjoyable.

I'm not saying that I don't want him to have any fun, cause I do, and I know he wants me to have fun. But at what cost is having THAT fun??

When we first started doing 3sums with other men, I was so worried about his feelings, that to be honest, it took several times for me to be sure he was ok. THEN and only THEN could I relax and really get into it. Ya know I was keeping myself aware of him being there, keeping him close, keeping him totally involved with what was happening. I was basicly "playing it safe" for his sake. Because I didn't know how he would feel "after"....

THAT is what I need, want and have to have from him in return. For him to play it safe for my sake. And he didn't when he knew he should have.

I have made this as clear as humanly possible to him, that anything less is just not acceptable to me. Period.

He's whole heartedly agreed, when this actually happened, talking to him was as good as talking to a brick wall. He got pissy, his tone of voice when he said he was sorry was full of anger & resentment. Then after more talking and talking, he left me this note in my email a few mornings after;

"The reason you got 3 different versions from me is I knew what I wanted to say, but didnt know how too untill *** said what he said and then it all came together as to what happend. But It had nothing to do with her at all. It was hearing you in the backround and the whole atmasfeer of things going on around me. I do love you and I am very very sorry for everything and going at your pace is fine. Im not trying to hurt you in any way. I just keep fucking up. Somtimes I think I was put on this earth to fuck things up. And I do a good job at it. Well I havta get into the shower now but just remember that when I fuck up it's not to hurt you, it's just the way my whole life has been, and I think it's hard to say Im sorry because then I have to addmitt that I screwed up yet 1 more time. Im sorry and I love you. The only thing In my life that I didnt fuck up was meeting you and being persistent till I got your attention. That was the best thing I ever did.
Love you"

(*** is a friend we have that swings so I asked him to explain arousal from a guys point of view. ***'s responce was, the difference, newness & sensation of being with another woman, combined with the excitiment & atmosphere, that that would drive any married guy who has only been with one woman in 4 years over the edge.)

So I guess all I can do is let time pass cause it's really to fresh in my mind.

thanks,
pacpl4funn

[EvilMJ]

I have a feeling I am going to be unpopular with this post but here it goes.

Do you think perhaps you are being unreasonable with you rules? Personally I don't think I could enjoy myself (especially if I was the man), knowing that I have to control where and when I have an orgasm. Sure I can see maybe not cumming in someone’s mouth (especially if it is her request) but it seems awful restrictive to me, and sometime accidents are going to happen. I think you need to lighten up a bit on the poor guy.

He knew made a mistake and his first reaction is to say he didn’t cum, you know what, I think sometimes we say stuff in hopes to get ourselves out of the hole we just dug ourselves into, not to hurt the ones we love. Then he owned up on it and apologized. So you have a choice here, you can sit here and hold a grudge over something that he already apologized for, or you can forgive him and chalk it up to experience and move on by discussing how to handle a situation like this in the future.

Did the other couple know of your rules? If you were clear on this then I think you need to decide if you want to continue playing with a couple that doesn’t respect your boundaries. You also have the responsibility to say to them when something is bothering you, no mean no and I know from personal experience that if you tell someone not to do something it is not automatically going to ruin the mood. In fact I have received an honest “sorry about that” and we continued on with having fun. So don’t feel you have to be quiet in order to keep from ruin everyone’s fun, I think in the long run it is better if you say something at the time rather than hold it in when it is too late to do anything.

I agree with txduo2000 when they say that it was likely that his intent was not to hurt you or to break a rule, in the heat of the moment we can sometimes do things we shouldn’t do. Unfortunately this happened with him.

I think you need to decide if Swinging is really right for you, because if this accident is causing you such heartache and pain, then I am not sure you are cut out for this. Trust me, my hubby has made a few mistakes along the way, so have I, but we forgave each other and learned from them. Ultimately that is what you have to do too if is swinging is going to work for you.

[txduo2000]

I wholeheartedly agree with EvilMJ. She expressed herself in a way that I was unable to do, laying out her thoughts in absolute synchronicity with my own.

Take what she says to heart .... ALL of it.

Short anecdote:

When my hubby and I started out ... kissing others was a no-no. We soon discovered how completely unreasonable and unrealistic that rule was. It was banished soon after our first experience.

Anyone can say what they want about the "purpose" of sex; ultimately the end result is going to be an orgasm. Where that orgasm is placed should really be of no consequence if you are going to be enjoying all aspects of sexual freedoms and positions. My rather crude take on the whole thing is that if you don't want him cumming inside someone's vagina or mouth, then his penis doesn't belong in either place.

Another short anecdote:

Anal is off-limits for us with other people, though we do enjoy it together. This was something that we did not discuss nor communicate about ahead of time, and it led to a major mishap in one of our encounters with another couple. There were were, me with the other hubby, my hubby with the other wife. I was really getting into it and told the guy to do me in the ass! BAD MOVE on my part. No matter that the guy I was with tried and FAILED (he was having erection issues and it just wouldn't go in), when hubby looked over it APPEARED to him, by our positioning that we were engaged in full course anal sex. My hubby got up, got dressed, and announced LOUDLY that we were leaving. He was PISSED and yelled at me all the way home. We slept in separate beds that night and it took a lot of begging and pleading on my part to try to convince him that it didn't happen. He was also upset that I even *allowed* anal with another person. I explained to him that I didn't know it was off-limits. He said that I should have assumed it was off-limits. I am not sure if he ever truly believed me that it didn't happen (it didn't!), but we have moved on and now I am completely in the know about what is and is not allowed for penetration. I will not make any mistake like that again.

And I would also like to add that by being a member of this board, a VERY REGULAR member at that, I have discovered that there are things people do that we have never done, and cause me to question whether or not it is acceptable to my hubby if we were to attempt anything. Case in point: allowing another man to come in my mouth ... not allowed by my hubby. But do I care if he comes in another woman's mouth? Nope, not in the least. I have found that by reading the threads that come in, it opens up new realms that the two of us may not have thought of, and allows us to further lineate our boundaries by discussing these situations encountered by others.

[rdy46227]

Perhaps...

He was real close to cuming. The lady stoped working on him for a moment and while her mouth was off him, he satrted cuming. His comments to her "not yet, not yet" were his warning that he was still cuming, and not to go down on him again until he was finished.

If that happened, he seems to have technically followed the rule, and clearly he was following the spirit by his warning to her.

Also, some people combine the two rules, "always make the evidence point to a lessor crime" and "pleading guilty to a minor offense can save a major hassle". This might explain why admitting to breaking the rule, though he feels technically he did not, would seem the easist way to get past your wrath.

But I've been wrong before, and will be wrong again...

[tulippe44]

I have to say that I disagree with evilmj on a few points. I have been married for a few years and sexually active for a few years before that. I have never let a man cum in my mouth and they have all known that that was a no-no for me. Never have I had someone disrespect that rule. I have always had warning. I have issues with some body fluids(I'm working on it ) However, if this "rule" was put into place by a couple it should always be respected. One of the things I have seen consistenly on this board is respect the rules and that most newbies have more rigid rules in the beginning. I don't think this is an unrealistic rule and would be furious if it was my dh but I would get over it. Although I still think that the origianl poster could be mistaken in what was seen.

[pacpl4funn]

To reinterate;

This was a first time total swap, he knew ahead of time ( I told him a few times when we were making the plans AND in the car on the way there) he knew our boundaries going in, (and so did the other cpl) hubby knew that I wanted us to try this, I also knew that this was something he wanted to try as well, but he also knew that I didn't know how I would handle it!

You said you made a mistake, with the anal , but did your hubby have to yank out your apology??? Did it take several days for you to say I'm sorry and actually sound like you meant it??? How did you prove to him that you would never make that mistake again???

So if your unsure of the outcome and you still want to do it, then tell me, what is the proper way to proceed???? Or does "fuck your partners feeling" apply here?

[pacpl4funn]

ok I got 2 versions from him for the comments; "not yet not yet",

1-
She was cumming and he was trying to delay cause her hubby said she's only good for one "O"---- So if that's the case, her cumming is what "trigger him" and so thererfore NOT the sights n sounds of me or what was going on with me then. Cause when we are in a 69, he gets me cumming and from that, he starts to cum. Hence a "trigger affect"...

2-
He felt he was getting close and trying to delay her for the reason above and pulled her off his cock, but that he didn't feel himself cum, that maybe a little pre-cum but not a full blown load.....

Now I was there, I saw what was hanging off his cock, and it wasn't pre-cum, and knowing her mouth had just been wrapped around his cock a second earlier, and knowing the amount of cum/or squirts, hence he came in her mouth, maybe not all, but definitly some.

Getting him to fess up is part of the problem, it's like, ok I see that the sun is shinning and he's trying to tell me it's dark outside. What do I beleive, what I am looking at?? Or what he's telling me???

What would you all do, and how would you handle this??

Do you walk away from everything? Bite the bullet and accept the fact that your feelings and emotions don't count?? Try again with better understanding and cross your fingers??? LOL

I dono, you tell me, what would you do in my shoes?

[tribbles]

His lack of control and care for my feelings took away from my experience

I see this as "stinking thinking" on your part. He lost control BECAUSE of how he thought you were excited. He was turned on, not only by the other woman but by what he thought was YOUR excitement. She provided the physical stimulation but thoughts of YOU were the mental and emotional turn on and that tipped him over the edge. And lack of care for your feelings? He thought you were feeling good and having a great time!

Most, if not all of us, treat, talk, touch others the way we want to be touched, treated and talked to...and everyone is different, so we keep doing to others how we want it done and no one gets what they want! You say you held back in mfm's for him....but did he actually KNOW you wanted him to hold back his excitement and thoughts of you enjoying it, just in case you weren't having the fun he wanted you to have?

Talk with each other from the starting point of "he (or she) would NOT do anything that they KNOW would hurt me. Therefore, even tho I'm hurt, it was not what my honey wanted to do. How do we keep it from happening again? What can I learn about myself and partner from this?

We have BTDT and that is one of the things that allowed us to put it all back together.

Also, maybe he didn't feel the first squirt....my honey says each time feels different to him - some O's are no squirters and others are squirt lots..I've seen shock on his face when he didn't know he was even near the edge. Beats me how that works cuz I KNOW for me when I'm near but I have to work at it to cum and he just has it "happen" without effort most the time.

Please keep in mind this is just IMHO and may not be worth 2 cents....

Good luck!
S

[tribbles]

Also by now, it may be very hard for him to ID everything as it really happened and he may even be scared to tell you what he does know and may believe you won't believe him and now is hunting for whatever he has to say to just ease your hurt and get close to you again.

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by tulippe44

I have to say that I disagree with evilmj on a few points. I have been married for a few years and sexually active for a few years before that. I have never let a man cum in my mouth and they have all known that that was a no-no for me. Never have I had someone disrespect that rule. I have always had warning. I have issues with some body fluids(I'm working on it ) However, if this "rule" was put into place by a couple it should always be respected. One of the things I have seen consistenly on this board is respect the rules and that most newbies have more rigid rules in the beginning. I don't think this is an unrealistic rule and would be furious if it was my dh but I would get over it. Although I still think that the origianl poster could be mistaken in what was seen.

I think I may have not been clear on this point but I said I could understand a rule of someone not cumming in a woman's mouth. I can certainly see where some women might find this distasteful (sorry for the pun). I feel when you go into swinging the idea is to have sex with other couples or singles but when you are getting too strict with the rules it is going to be difficult to enjoy yourself. I'm not 100% sure how it is for a man..not being one myself...but it must be difficult to have a good time and then suddenly have to pull out, then to top it off he has to be aware that if he doesn't get it out in time and starts to cum then his wife is going to be angry and see it as being inconsiderate and hurtful. To me it seems either they are going to have to relax that rule a bit or accept that accidents can happen and it is not meant to hurt anyone.

I 100% agree that we have to have rules in place, and I am not saying that it is okay to break these rules, but I think in a situation where they are both new, he is getting excited by watching and hearing her enjoy herself, that he could not help himself and made a mistake. If you cannot forgive this mistake, or at least learn from it and move on, then I don't think you are going to enjoy swinging all that much.