First Swap! DH forgot OUR rules! What to do??

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by pacpl4funn

What do I want from this???
To have a good time, exerience life and all it's many wonders WITH my husband.

Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy.

What personal issues do I have with sharing my husband? Tough question to be honest. I can share to a point, every adventure is different, and if the situation is handled correctly, however, I don't want to throw away the things that make our life special either.

What if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing? No I don't think I can, what your asking is like if one wasn't having a good time, should the one who isn't go out and sit in the car and wait??? Sorry but I thought the pretense of swinging was that both have a good time or the night ends early!!

What More do I want??? the answer no one here seems capable of giving,
How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

Ok, in the OP's response here I find GLARING RED FLAGS with neon lights coursing all through it.

"Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy."


Wrong, wrong, wrong .... In this question and answer, you pretty much make it clear that you are in this becuase HE wants to be. NO relationship swinging or otherwise will survive if one partner is doing things that they really would rather not do for the sake of the other partner. I am all about give-and-take in a marriage, but we are not talking about refusing to get angry because he forgot to put the tootpaste cap on again. We are talking about sharing your bodies, your most intimate physical beings with other people!!!! If YOU aren't comfortable with that, then NO SWINGING. Period.

In the rest of this response you go on to basically further exemplify your extreme discomfort of this lifestyle. Sex with others is not an choreographed event. Every single move cannot be anticipated each time. For many of us, that is part of the thrill, much more exciting than watching porn. If you want orchestrated ... you might try porn.

And as one other said, there should be no scorekeeping in swinging. Sometimes, if you continue, you will have a better time than he, sometimes vice versa. But to get angry because of that ... well, you are only hurting yourself to go that route. And eventually it will hurt your marriage.

I really believe, by the depths of your anger, hurt and frustration that this is not a lifestyle that is healthy for your relationship. You both have to be on the same page in normal everyday life before you can even consider getting on the same swing-page.

If your marriage is not already open, healthy, communicative and strong, swinging will only shred it to pieces.

[pacpl4funn]

Good Morning,

While yes I came here seeking insite, clearity and maybe just some emotional support. And from all the responces I can tell that every one has an opinion, some are partially right, and some I guess can't read or lack comprehension as to what I was expressing here. I guess that's my fault.

Yes we've been in this for about 3 years, why aren't we further???? Well hey, we have jobs, families, responsibilities that come first, and to even meet someone can be time consuming. But regardless of all that, hubby and I both agreed that swinging would not take over our life. HE didn't want it to be an everyday or every weekend type of thing. HE said cause if it were, then it wouldn't be as exciting...His words. And I agreed, it's what he felt comfortable with.

When my hubby first told me about swinging and swingers and his desire to want to try this, yes sure I panicked, big time, In my history I've always been a bumm magnet, nothing but cheats and women beaters. And through the grace of god, we found each other, had so many obsticals in our way, distance being one of them, we were 5 hours apart. But we made it, and we made it work.

So after we get together, he tells me about this and how he's always wanted to try this, says how he never had the balls to ever utter a word to his x wife in 22 years about this, and being how close we are, he felt he could tell me about it, you have no idea how that made me feel, how special I felt.

So sure I felt special, does that mean I didn't panic, hell yes I did, but what do you do when you see that something is so important to the one you love??? The first thing I did was to try and understand it. The whole concept, discuss it, educate myself and him. And that's what I did. I read everything, learned what this lifestyle is 'susposed' to be about.

Everything I read said if your not on the same page, to proceed with caution, go at the slower person's speed, to not rush, to take your time, create safety rules. To determin what's acceptable and not. To treate your spouse with respect, to be caring, concerned, to talk about things that you find upsetting. etc. etc. etc..

In 3 years, to some we have done allot, yes it took me 3 years to be capable of the swap, and I don't think I was ready, or as ready as I thought I was.

In the 3sums that we're done, we played with one guy regularly for almost a year, then the guy broke our rule and kissed me, hubby didn't like it at all, he tried to talk to the fellow, he denied it, so hubby said we were never playing with him again. Hubby said we needed some us time so he could 're-group' because it upset him.... Then a few months passed and we played again with a few different guys, and each time I was feeling more comfortable. You could say it was growing on me. As I had felt very tence, very scared, I knew hubby was enjoying it, but at the same time I felt if I ever really got into it, hubby might not be able to handle that. So I told him that I enjoyed what we were doing but that part of me was being careful for his sake. And he appeared very happy that I was being considerate to his feelings and said that he didn't want me holding back. He wanted me to really enjoy it, that HE was ok. So the next time we played, I let myself go, I really was able to enjoy it, I knew hubby was ok, he said he was ok, so I finally had some real fun. Then came the after, he pulled the emergancy brake. He got all freaked out on the way home, said he didn't want swinging anymore, he said, he felt this guy had disrespected me in his 'dirty talk". This was so unlike my hubby, in the past it was clear I was wasn't having THAT good a time, he was fine, the one guy kissed me and he didn't freak out and pull the plug, but because this guy talked a little dirty, he pulls the plug???? Nothing made since, It was almost a year before he wanted to do anything with anyone, and in all that time, I felt it was cause I finally had fun. He still says it wasn't cause I had fun, but cause of this guys talkin.

Anyhow, here we are, rules are broken, there nothing I can do about, it, I didn't come up with the rule, he did, I didn't break the rules, he did. I love him no matter what, yes my feelings are hurt, do I love him any less. NO.
Do I want to feel safe while we're playing, absolutly. And like I told him, if he can't adhere to the rules he came up with then it's not fair to the other men that we play with. And let me say this, that did not go over well at all.

Well I think I've said enough, everybody has their own view and I respect that, I really do, I didn't come here to cause any drama, all I wanted was some opinions, some clearity, some help and maybe some emotional support.

pacpl4funn

[pacpl4funn]

just one more thing before I head out to work,

The swap with this other cpl,

neither of us had any expereince in doing this, this was a first time,
it was unknown territory for us, I didn't know how I would handle the other woman thing, hubby didn't know how I would handle it either.

Many here say I'm all about controling, and that's not true, control is not the issue, for me, truth is.... it's about love, trust, caring, safety, concern & respect for your spouse.

I read in a different post about a women who was blind-folded in the B&D room for the first time, and couldn't see her husband, and she freaked. She was in unknown territory, just as I was.

Thank You for all the responces, I take them all to heart, and even those that were very harsh and unfeeling too, you have ALL actually helped me to see things that I didn't see before.

pacpl4funn

[lcjtsd]

What to do? From what I've read you should stop swinging. Sorry to be blunt, but "freaking out" over a kiss, over "dirty talk", etc?? Sounds like you two have other issues that need to be worked out and you're using your "rules" as an excuse.

What's our rules? Simply to have as much fun as we can.

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by pacpl4funn

Yes we've been in this for about 3 years, why aren't we further???? Well hey, we have jobs, families, responsibilities that come first, and to even meet someone can be time consuming. But regardless of all that, hubby and I both agreed that swinging would not take over our life. HE didn't want it to be an everyday or every weekend type of thing. HE said cause if it were, then it wouldn't be as exciting...His words. And I agreed, it's what he felt comfortable with.

I think, when people were asking why you aren't "farther along" in that three year period, they meant more in your comfort level rather than quantity of play encounters. Of course, sometimes comfort is only gotten from repetitive play with partners ... sometimes it's gotten just by simply growing in your togetherness as a couple. So, from my perspective, I was wondering why you and your husband hadn't gotten more secure with each other to be more comfortable during playtime in those three years, not why you haven't had umpteen partners in that three years.

I totally understand not wanting swinging to take over your life. That's exactly how I feel. It seems like every single weekend, my hubby wants to do something that involves swinging. 90% of the time that's ok with me, but sometimes, I really like to do "normal" mainstream stuff. The problem is: kids, work, social obligations ... all those things that get in the way of being able to do everything you want to do in life. There are only (on average) 4 weekends in a month. Out of those weekends, we have our kids 2 weekends a month, leaving us only two weekends, or 4 party nights to do what we want. It is hard to pack in everything you want to do in such a short lifetime.

And certainly, our responses to you on this board were meant to help. Sometimes when we ask for advice, we don't always hear what we want to hear. Yes, we are sympathetic that you are hurting over a rule being broken. People post stuff like that all the time. It has happened, or will happen, to us all at one time or another. No one here has intentionally tried to be insensitive. But I think you have found that there are a great number of us that will simply tell it like it is, or how we see it. Of course, we don't know you and can only give advice on information we receive from you, so that's what we used to tender our responses.

The thing is first and foremost, how strong your marriage is to begin with ... how quick do you/hubby forgive other, non-related mistakes that you make in your marriage? Secondly, swinging is supposed to be fun, exciting, and empowering to our sexuality. All we have pretty much said here is that if you aren't having fun, if it is no longer exciting, if it is causing you pain and distress, and if you are feeling powerless, then it's not going to work for you.

Bottom line: You cannot fit a square peg into a round hole. Some people are simply not cut out to be swingers. That doesn't make one person better than another. It is what it is. For some people, jealousy is not an issue. For others, it is. There's no right or wrong in that, it is simply the way things are with different people.

My hubby and I have rules. There's nothing wrong with rules. No one is telling you to not have rules or to let them fall by the wayside whenever it is convenient for someone else, whether it is your hubby or your play partners, or yourself. What we are saying is that sometimes, over the course of time and continued encounters, our rules may evolve, diminish, reappear, disappear .... whatever ... dependent upon our comfort levels at various times. That's where two very important qualities come into play ... Respect and Communication. You HAVE to communicate with each other constantly ... much more than most mainstream married couples tend to do. And you have to respect one another enough to adhere to the rules you both set into play. Further, you have to respect one another and love one another enough that if a rule is inadvertently broken, or even intentionally at the time, that you apologize, step up to the plate, take the responsibility, TALK about it and move on. You cannot dwell on things that hurt at the time. You have to be in a marriage that is strong enough that you can honestly trust and believe in your partner that he/she would never do anything to intentionally hurt you.

When it becomes a contest, competition or a game of wills, then there is no respect in your marriage. When you start holding grudges and cannot accept apologies, there is no respect. When you can blatantly and casually break rules, there is no respect. First and foremost, there has to be respect.

All we are basically saying is that you have a choice. You can continue to harbor anger toward your husband, which will breed resentment and diminish your respect for him, and will ultimately wreck your marriage .... OR you can accept his apology, talk about swinging and whether or not you should really continue in this practice, and move on. That's really all there is to it.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Anyhow, here we are, rules are broken, there nothing I can do about, it, I didn't come up with the rule, he did, I didn't break the rules, he did

in your heart do you know exactly why he instituted this rule? Not what he says but what his motivations were? What negative outcome did he forsee if he were to cum in anothers mouth? I believe the answer to this question holds the solution to the majority of the issues here. If he wanted this rule for his own personal deep emotional reasons then there is no way he would have even come close to crossing the line, however if he decided on this particular rule to perhaps help put your mind at ease or satisify your hesitations about him being with another woman then that is a problem.......... here it is called "taking one for the team" and history on this board will show that "taking one for the team" will destroy almost anything good!!! and thus the line becomes a little fuzzy because it wasnt really something he wanted it was a bone he threw to you for your appeasment. I also get the feeling that the two of you were doing the same thing during the MFM play, only now the shoe is on the other foot and it hurts! Is it wrong???? In swinging YES, in the regular world? No, in fact i think it has some nice chivarous overtones, it shows he cares about your feelings and has concern for your well being however when introduced into the swinging atmosphere it takes on a diffrent persona and becomes harmful rather than a nice sweet gesture by the husband. That is where the communication comes in not just talking but communicating from the heart, deep down true blue feelings and how to help each other thru the rough times such as these. There is no I or U in team its a WE thing

Angedky(mr)

[pacpl4funn]

thank you txduo2000, very much, I greatly appreciate all you said and as always I take it to heart,

And beleive me when I say, in our normal everyday like, we are the best of friends, sure we disagree, that's normal, but I always try to discuss it, now granted, hubby isn't the great at wanting to discuss things, he has some trouble articulating himself, anotherwards when he says something, it's hard to know what he actually means, it's not coming out 'clear'. But aside from that, we're totally inlove, want whats best for eachother and our marriage.

I do forgive him, cause I love this man, and I know he loves me and didn't mean to hurt me, that's why I came here, to gain some understanding, to learn alittle more.

I don't want to 'brow beat' this man to death cause he made a mistake. I can't change what I saw happen, but I don't want to keep hurting inside. As I've personally found since we've been part of this lifestlye, every experience wether it be good or bad, is a learning experience. And thanks to everyone here, telling me like it is, has actually helped me. I'm not mad, or angry at him anymore. Yes, I was angry & hurt, for the last week and a half, since this happened, I felt so confused, betrayed, shaken, feeling that I didn't know where I fit in his life. And yes for a moment I felt very replaceable. We / I had never had this experience of having another woman there, assuming my roll, in effect, taking my place, I don't think I was over reacting, I was hurt. People hurt. I just had to find a constructive way to deal with it, and coming here, listening to everyone and their views was helpful.

I read somewhere, as comfort levels increase so does the level of play. And I do beleive this is true, especially for me, we started out with the minimum, watched and being watched, gravitated to bringing another man into it, and the first guy we played with regularly for almost a year, then a few different guys along the way, we experimented with alot of same room sex. Attended M & G's hosted by friends, even hosted a small gang bang for a female friend, However without going into all the details, as I'm sure not everyone is interested in what we've actually done, we're not about quanity of partners, for us, it's about the quality, establishing friends, wether it be for play or not.

I actually think I'm retarted in my way of thinking sometimes, LOL, I really thought if anything about the swap would have thrown me for a loop, it would have the other sexual acts, ie; foreplay, oral, fucking, etc......... it was actually exciting & arousing. So I find it odd that the one part, a natural bodily function that is normal duing any sexual stimilation would have such an adverse effect on me.

Either I'm really fucked up in the head or not as much as I thought.
Maybe I'm more kinkier then I even know. LOL

Oh well, I dono, :-)

thanks all and everyone have a great day.

[pacpl4funn]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

in your heart do you know exactly why he instituted this rule? Not what he says but what his motivations were? What negative outcome did he forsee if he were to cum in anothers mouth? I believe the answer to this question holds the solution to the majority of the issues here. If he wanted this rule for his own personal deep emotional reasons then there is no way he would have even come close to crossing .....

Let me reply to this, cause this is a really good question,

when we were first educating ourselves, we read about the rules and safety etc,,,,

I asked if there was anything that he didn't want to happen with anyone else. He said that he didn't want kissing, he thought it was too personal, to filled with emotions, Now I love kissing, but that was not something he felt he could handle, so ok, no kissing, then I asked him about cumming, he literly raised himself off the chair and said NO, that MY mouth and pussy were strictly his, and that was the way he wanted it. No discussion. So of course I asked what about body shots or external cumming, he said that was ok, but then added also that he didn't want anyone cumming ON my face that that too was strictly for him.

I don't think he saw or thought of a negitive outcome if he were with someone else and came, as his comments over this situation were, "I didn't think the rule applied to me if the other couple didn't have the same rule"

So basicly my perception on his way of thinking is, other men can't cum in my mouth or inside me, but if the other couple are ok with it, he can.


I hope this clearifies or gives a better view of the how these rules came to be.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Glad you responded and thankyou,

So where does the root of your hurt and anger lie, And how does that compare to his motivations for the "rule" in question?

Also, i cant help but notice that in discussing kissing it was "no, and the reason is................." yet in cum shots it was "no, hell no, its mine" To me the diffrences in these statments are perplexing and would warrant more thoughts and questions, but thats just my overly analytical way of thinking

ciao-


Angedky(mr)

[pacpl4funn]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Glad you responded and thankyou,

So where does the root of your hurt and anger lie, And how does that compare to his motivations for the "rule" in question?

Also, i cant help but notice that in discussing kissing it was "no, and the reason is................." yet in cum shots it was "no, hell no, its mine" To me the diffrences in these statments are perplexing and would warrant more thoughts and questions, but thats just my overly analytical way of thinking

So where does the root of your hurt and anger lie??

I guess to me, the root of my hurt & anger I feel is because this was such an important issue/rule TO HIM when we were orginally discussing it, he was so very adimtt that those body spots were his and to be reserved for him and him alone.

And how does that compare to his motivations for the "rule" in question?

I'm not too sure what your asking.... I can't read his mind, but I can safey say that perhaps his motivation for that rule is, he didn't want HIS space violated.

OR that LIKE with the other poster on here who was about to do anal with the other guy and her husband got up, got dressed, walked out and yelled at her the whole way home and here anal hadn't even been discussed as a no no, it was found out the hard way.

I guess when I really think about it, my hurt & anger were due to the fact that I felt like,,, he needs and desires to keep spots on me for himself, ok, but yet he had no forethought for me or himself when it came down to him keeping what is needed that makes those spots on me so sacret to him.

I don't think I made much sence out of what I just said.

[DBL D]

Hi pacpl4funn,

Glad you stuck around and answered our questions. So many others have disappeared when things got hot.

I can see how you really want things to work out and hope he does too.

Most of us don't have time to swing whenever we want and so we want to be sure that we know the folk we are with know the basics. Every once in a while, a couple will ask about our rules and that is a great time to talk to them. Some will see our rules as too restrictive and others will see them as not restrictive enough, and will deny us any further opportunity to get to know them and work things out. That's why I feel involving the other people is important. Everyone is different.

Whether for control or comfort, rules are neccessary guidelines and allow you to grow at your own speed. Loved hearing your sexual history as it gave more insights to what is going on.

Male D

[chastityrings]

I am by far no expert ,..but, I think you two should throw in the towel and just read or watch movies about swinging, cause if you can't cum comfortably with a different partner, why bother with all the hastle, If I were you I'd go rent a good xxx movie and screw his brains out for a few hours, and let him pretend you're sombody else , or maybe try role playing . It just sounds like the whole swing thing is causing you way too much pain. I hope everything straightens itself out for you.
{{{hugs}}}
chastityr

[tulippe44]

Just wanted to jump in again. My dh and I were discussing this thread again last night. We both agreed that oral cumming for guys in the mouth is a no-no. This is done for my comfort level. I don't at this time let my dh cum in my mouth. I am working on it but progress is slow. So looking at it from the other perspective, if my dh were to accidentally cum in someone's mouth I would of course be hurt if it was done intentionally but from the way he explained it he can always give me warning as he would anyone else. If we were with another couple and the female half did not respect this rule I would think that I would be more upset with her than my dh if he were on bottom. Also from the mans perspective, my dh says that if a man disobeyed this rule he would be furious and tempted to hit him(my dh is not violent in the least but is very protective) I have a very strong gag reflex so sometimes the smallest thing could potentially make me gag. Of course my hubby would be upset, not just because someone else disobeyed but also because for those of us that do gag alot this can be painful not only to the throat but also to the muscles. I am glad that the woman who started this thread was able to forgive her husband, but still feel the need to ask the questions about the other woman and was anything said to her that would let her know that she broke a rule. It takes to for that rule to be broken. Hubby is only at fault to the degree that he had control. His only other choice after giving warning was to physically throw this woman off of him.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

I guess when I really think about it, my hurt & anger were due to the fact that I felt like,,, he needs and desires to keep spots on me for himself, ok, but yet he had no forethought for me or himself when it came down to him keeping what is needed that makes those spots on me so sacret to him.

Where I am headed with all of this is....................... his rule was based on the fact that (theoreticaly) there are certain places on YOU that should be reserved for his and your enjoyment.............you on the otherhand (correct me if i am off base here) agreed with that wholeheartedly but not from a physicality aspect but from an emotional basis (or at least with more emphasis on the emotional connection), so when you observed what you did it was crushing to you but he really deep down couldnt relate to your emotions because he was more on the physical / personal space side of thinking. In order to get on the same page you have to educate him (to a certain degree) on how you as a woman interpret all the standards of swinging that you have as a couple and likewise try to understand his inner meanings about those same standards and carry that foward in and out of the bedroom . Hope that helps, its just my humble opinion tho-

angedky(mr)

[EternallySingle]

Originally Posted by pacpl4funn

What do I want from this???
To have a good time, exerience life and all it's many wonders WITH my husband.

Why do "I" want this? Because it's something he's wanted to try for along time and I am cruious, I'd like to try it and I also want to have a good time while making us both happy.

What personal issues do I have with sharing my husband? Tough question to be honest. I can share to a point, every adventure is different, and if the situation is handled correctly, however, I don't want to throw away the things that make our life special either.

If you can't answer this question, you are not ready to swing. Everyone has issues when it comes to sex. EVERYONE, not just swingers. I know what I'm comfortable with and when the time is right, I tell ALL parties involved. If they are not willing to work within my rules, it won't work. You have to stop and take the hard look at yourself.

For example, I can't do the annonymous sex with couples thing. Even if the woman says she has permission to swing alone, I have to talk to her husband a lot more than I talk to her before I feel comfortable having sex with the wife. Its one of my hangups. I had a girlfreind that cheated on me with a swing partner and got pregnant. Her rationale was that we weren't married so she could be with whomever she wanted whenever she wanted. Didn't matter that I never even flirted with other women without her present the 18 months we lived together. She believed her prior experiences negated any commitments to me.

That left a bad taste in my mouth, so now I have to know the husband is on board with what I consider a good sexual encounter (especially if she says she plays alone), just so I don't feel like I'm doing to some guy what had been done to me in the name of swinging. That actually kept me from swinging as a single man for many years.

You HAVE to be willing to look deep inside yourself and say "Does this really bother me or am I just looking for something to complain about?" If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't be honest with others. And if you can't be honest with the people you are having sex with, you will not enjoy it.

What if he or she has a much better time on a date than I do, can i handle watching him get off if my partner is not performing? No I don't think I can, what your asking is like if one wasn't having a good time, should the one who isn't go out and sit in the car and wait??? Sorry but I thought the pretense of swinging was that both have a good time or the night ends early!!

What More do I want??? the answer no one here seems capable of giving,
How do you move on, how do you forgive when your trust has been violated?

Life is not black and white. Yes, he has to keep in the back of his mind that he can't totally let himself go with other women like he does with you, but you have to be willing to let go of the anger before you can stop feeling betrayed. The anger is feeding those hurt feelings, not the other way around. Yes, you felt angry, betrayed, and hurt when it happened, but the anger is the feeling that is easiest to hold on to. And its the one thats is coming through based on your choice of words and the way your spelling and grammer slips from college educated woman to seventh grade school girl. You are typing angry, meaning you are feeling furious.

No, letting go of anger is not simple. But you have to make a conscious effort not to be angry. Once you stop acting on your anger, you will stop feeling it as much. Once the anger starts to leave, the feelings of betrayal and emotional pain will follow, because the anger is just feeding those emotions.

This is swinging. Its supposed to be fun. Its also not for everyone. If it were, you would see ads for swing clubs in the local newspaper, not just in adult magazines and websites. Don't let anger over something you can do without cause a problem with something you can't do without...your marriage.