Let Wife's boss touch her while she was passed out

[tribbles]

If we went by what you are saying, we could say someone who is raped while unconscious should be held partially responsible for the attack because she got that drunk. Sorry but there is no situation where this kind of activity can be approved of or allowed, regardless of the mental state of the person at the time of the activity.

Um, no, I didn't read it the way you did. The victim is not to be blamed, but I would hope the person who was raped might learn that bad things can happen when you are unconscious and not to do it again except after assessing how safe the situation is. The world is not a safe place...we all know that.(???) My point here is that they all need to learn from this. Even the wife made the mistake of feeling safe unconscious and maybe she wouldn't do that again....I sure wouldn't! Mistakes do not equal blame, IMO.

As for themonster making true personal attacks, I don't see it that way BUT I have seen others (on a different board) take attacks against what some see as the logic in their posts personally. When feelings on a subject run hot, showing the lack of logic (that might be seen that way by another poster) FEELS like an attack and it's pretty hopeless. So others don't see it as a personal attack, maybe there is a different way to phrase the way themonster's logic is different from other posters? (I know, kid gloves are boring but there has to be a way to show your view of the logic posted without more than one person seeing it as an attack...I struggle with making my view understood without anyone feeling attacked).

EvilMJ I did rather hope we would be able to at least see a few areas here we agreed on. Communication takes work to fine tune each item and even just understand for sure where the other person is coming from. While we disagree in some, it's not surprising we can agree in others.

I like Propel but diet soda of any kind will do as well.... I shy away from the ones with Lemon or Lime cuz so far none have tasted good to me...now add cherry flavor....

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by tribbles

If we went by what you are saying, we could say someone who is raped while unconscious should be held partially responsible for the attack because she got that drunk. Sorry but there is no situation where this kind of activity can be approved of or allowed, regardless of the mental state of the person at the time of the activity.

Tribbles,

My point behind this statement is that another poster felt that she should have responsiblity for what occured while she was unconsious. I don't completely agree on that point. What she did was get too drunk..and that's it...unfotunately bad things can happen, too true. The sad part is that her husband allowed this to happen. It is a touchy subject that I am sure a lot of people feel strongly about.

The reason I metioned person attacks (and this goes for both sides of the argument) is I feel that what was being said was deeming to others. It is okay to disagree but it is not okay to tell people that there arguments are ridiculous, and unreasonable. THere is no need for that, I think we can all have a good conversation without tell other people they are wrong in their beliefs. I completely respect your opinion, and wholeheartly accept that it may not be the same as mine.

That being said....I must go see if we can buy propel here in Canada!

[Alura]

Many years ago I lived in a London apartment with about eight other singles who were trying to be able to afford living in the city.

One Saturday night there was a party. A big, burly, guest (not a resident) got drunk and beat the shit out of our resident non-violent hippy because he looked at the burly guy's girlfriend's ass. He then threatened the guy with the broken end of a wine bottle, which he smashed on the coffee table. The lug's girlfriend managed to get him to put down the bottle and leave just before the constables arrived.

The next day the brute was full of apologies as was his girlfriend (who seemed to shoulder more of the blame than he did.) :rollseyes

Both he and his girlfriend maintained we should understand and forgive him because "he was drunk" and his mother had died some weeks before. He was still angry with me (because I called the authorities) and was "looking for" me. I was easy for anybody else to find, but he never did...

Sorry, but the fact is that anyone who drinks enough not to remember or to pass out is at least partially responsible for what happens while in that state of dimished capacity. Nobody forced the guy to drink and noone urged him to beat the hippy up.

On the other hand, a man who would have sex with a woman while she's in such a state is scum of a lower order, in my opinion.

"Should-a-dones" don't count and the best action to take, for all involved, is to control the alcohol intake.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

What's "Propel"?

Mr. Alura

[Vespertine]

All about Propel Fitness Water.

[Alura]

Thanks, Ves. Actually, I went back a page and read LikeMind's definition.

I haven't seen Propel in Tulsa, yet. (That doesn't mean anything. It took me three years to find the way from my house to the third entrance to my neighborhood. My sister still gets lost when she come to visit.)

I'm a Diet Coke guy, and it dosen't matter if it's Pepsi.


Mr. Alura

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

I tend to be a basics drinker or "puritan" (well only in the sode and coffee department though)

I like diet coke or pepsi with nothing added ... no vanilla, lime or lemon. Same for my coffee, just plain black with a touch of sweetener to take the bite off.

I've heard of Propel but never tried it. It must be good though if LM likes it

Mrs Spoomonkey

WOW!!

I have been following this thread but not have posted much since the beginning.

I think good points were made on both sides and no matter how you cut it there are no winners in this situation, but it did spark a good debate and allowed all sides to be heard.

BTW,
I don't like diet soda, I prefer full stength Mountain Dew

[two4youinswva]

Black Coffee in the morning, Diet Cherry Pepsi several times the rest of the day.

Watching this thread develop has been interesting. Good points have been made by all sides.

[tribbles]

What about Red Bull? They even have a low carb, lite version....

[TNT]

Originally Posted by tribbles

What about Red Bull? They even have a low carb, lite version....

Red Bull is good...IF it's mixed with vanilla rum and watermellon pucker

Coffee here in the morning, then diet Coke for me, diet vanilla Pepsi for Ted or water from the tap the rest of the day (yes, we live in an area where tap water is better than bottled water).

Teresa

[themonster]

It amazes me that I am being moderated for my "attacks". The whole point of view some of you share on this thread is that the wife should take no responsibility in this scenario. The ONLY way that point of view can be correct is if it is, in fact, acceptible to pass out to the point of unconsciousness due to voluntary actions, in this case excessive drinking, and expect nothing bad to ever happen.

If this is truly what you believe you are not thinking correctly....sorry....it's just that simple. No matter how badly you feel for the wife (or any other in a similar situation) there is no way to believe that had she retained even a hint of consciousness that this would have happened. Just an ounce of awareness and she certainly would not have accepted the advances of the boss. Right?

So in the spirit of assuming we most certainly should all come to agree on this most obvious point, it should then be easy to point out that the wife MUST take some responsibility for what happened. This doesn't make what the two guys did ANY less repulsive, they still had NO business doing what they did. And YES, what they did WAS way worse than anything she did(she didn't really "do" anything, but I'm referring to her bad judgement in passing out unconscious). But in many of the posts she has been defended to a fault and these poor judgementally based actions have been as well....The point that I have been apparently unable to make(until now?) is that to rid her of any responsibilty is promoting that it is ok to be out of control and go through life making poor decisions and just assuming that everything is going to be ok. Everything is not ok, obviously!!

At NO time in any of my posts have I even hinted that the actions were ok, even though it has been said that I have. I have explained this previously but some continue to read and selectively remember the parts they want to remember.

If this doesn't clear things up completely then I feel our world is far worse off than I give it credit for......


p.s. I sure hope that wasn't too offensive....

[EvilMJ]

The monster.

I am going to end this arguement with this comment.

I agree with you in the sense that she should not have gotten that drunk, yes we are ultimately responsible for our actions. I feel that these men have done something that should never have been done.

I will not tell you that if you beileve an opinion is different than mine that you are not thinking correctly. No one was attacking you, we only asked that these spirted discussions do not get offensive to anyone. (and in this I do not mean only you, this applies to all of us who post)

I am glad that everyone was appreciate of the arguments from all sides of thsi conversation. I hope we can continue to carry our discussions in this manner.

[Alura]

Teresa wrote:

(yes, we live in an area where tap water is better than bottled water).

Apparently we do too, Teresa. The Federal Government just said so. We bypassed the filter on our refrigerator so we could get the benefits from the flouride the city adds.

I offer you water.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

Teresa also wrote:

Red Bull is good...IF it's mixed with vanilla rum and watermellon pucker

Damn! I am SUCH a hick Okie! What is vanilla rum and watermelon pucker, Teresa?

Mr. Alura